Armor on Animal Companions

[Zaetar]

Hello! So here I am trying to build all possible (and useful) companions i could get not knowing yet if my DM will allow them or not... and I got stuck when thinking about armor.

Can a war animal like the Riding Dog or the War Mastiff (Heroes of Battle) wear armor? If they can, do they get the speed penalization?

For example the Riding Dog has a speed of 40 ft. If I make it wear a chainmail, does its speed drop to 30 ft.?

[DrMotives]

Rules for animal armor is in the PH section on armor. Armor for a mount is called barding. All normal rules involving max dex, skill checks, and speed reductions apply as for normal humanoid races. There is a table on the weight & cost difference for different size categories, and a note that armor for 4-legged bodies costs double what it does for a 2 legged body. A war horse or war mastiff is battle-trained, and should have armor proficiency. Other mounts not trained have armor check penalties on all d20 rolls, just like PCs in classes not meant for armor.

[Bullet06320]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#bardingMediumCreatureandLarge Creature

barding

[Zaetar]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#bardingMediumCreatureandLarge Creature

barding

Yes, thanks and apologies, found it 4 seconds before re-checking this post for answers... I hate skipping tables.

Ah, forgot to ask... do they need Endurance to sleep with armor on them to avoid fatigue too?

[Necroticplague]

Yes, thanks and apologies, found it 4 seconds before re-checking this post for answers... I hate skipping tables.

Ah, forgot to ask... do they need Endurance to sleep with armor on them to avoid fatigue too?

Yes. Other than cost and weight, barding is completely identical to normal armor in every single way. They need proficiency, are slowed down, get tired from sleeping in heavy ones, ect.

[Bullet06320]

I would say yes, barding is just animal armor, so it would follow the same rules as regular armor

[Zaetar]

Oh joy... i'll need to do that every night and every morning... gotta figure out how companions gain feats and get it endurance asap...

[Fouredged Sword]

Oh joy... i'll need to do that every night and every morning... gotta figure out how companions gain feats and get it endurance asap...

There is an armor enchant that does it as well, if you happen to be flush with cash.

Your companion gains feats as normal per it's HD (1 at 1st, 1 at 3rd ect), and Psychic reformation works to reassign then as you wish.

[Psyren]

You can also just feed it a cheapo Lesser Restoration potion every morning (or tap it on the nose with your Eternal Wand) to clear the fatigue away. It's not like they need to recover spells after all.

[Necroticplague]

Or just, y'know, take it's barding off at night , and slap it back on in the morning.

[Psyren]

Or just, y'know, take it's barding off at night , and slap it back on in the morning.

That would suck during an ambush at night though. It would take too long to put back on before the arrows started flying.

[Starkeeper]

Light armour doesn't cause fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#sleepinginArmor), I'd assume the same applies to barding and there's always the cheap option of getting a Restful Crystal(MIC, 500gp), though your barding would have to be at least Masterwork, which is still pretty cheap.

[Zaetar]

I completly forgot about the feat gain, did not consider that at all... but i never really understood completly how it works on Companions... I had companions... twice... and died quite quick due to armies and a roc...

Anyway, for example if i get a companion at lvl 4 ranger, it will not get any extra HD, but if i was level 6 Ranger it would get extra +2. That is the same as saying that i leveled up twice, right?

And in case of a warbeast, example: warbeast wolf, the wolf starts out with only 1 HD? it has a predeterminated amount of HD prior the companionship? if it has the warbeast template it gains +1 HD, does it stack with the bonuses from the druid table? (as in warbeast +1 and ranger 6 +2 = +3 total?)

[Fouredged Sword]

Let us take a look at a monster stat block. A wolf if a great example and one we can use to further explain how feats on animal companions work. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wolf.htm)

IE they work just like they do for everything else. Note the wolf starts with two feats. Track and Weapon Focus (Bite). Notice that track is actually listed as Track(b). This denotes that it is a bonus feat, IE one that is granted by the race "wolf". Weapon focus is NOT a bonus feat, rather it is a feat gained VIA normal feat progression, IE 1 at 1st, 1 at 3rd ect.

Bonus feats cannot be changed. Non-bonus feats can be changed though retraining or magical means.

Now, your wolf gains 2 more HD due to your level progression in an animal companion class. It gets another feat for having 3 total HD. Pick whatever you want to train your wolf to do. Light Armor prof is an option.

[DEMON]

it has the warbeast template it gains +1 HD, does it stack with the bonuses from the druid table? (as in warbeast +1 and ranger 6 +2 = +3 total?)

Yes. The warbeast template is separate from the Animal Companion advancement table.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes. The warbeast template is separate from the Animal Companion advancement table.

Note there is some controversy about the ability to apply the warbeast template to an animal companion. It falls into Ask your DM.

[Zaetar]

Alright... so i take it all animal companions can be taken as if starting at 1 HD then? At least the basic ones like wolf , riding dog or hawk?

For example of progression in a warbeast wolf:
The warbeast template gives it an extra +1 HD, in that extra HD the wolf gains:
-A d8 HP
-Save throws? Listed nowhere?
-Constitution modifier? Listed... nowehere either?
-2 + Int mod per HD
-Attack Bonus HD ׾ (as cleric)... <- did not understand this part. BAB is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD, ergo, 2 HD total = +1 BAB. Wolf already has BAB +1 so it would have BAB +2, right? then what is that thing of the 3/4 as cleric?

Another HD would mean all of the above plus a feat, and another HD would mean + ability scores?

[Fouredged Sword]

Alright... so i take it all animal companions can be taken as if starting at 1 HD then? At least the basic ones like wolf , riding dog or hawk?

For example of progression in a warbeast wolf:
The warbeast template gives it an extra +1 HD, in that extra HD the wolf gains:
-A d8 HP
-Save throws? Listed nowhere?
-Constitution modifier? Listed... nowehere either?
-2 + Int mod per HD
-Attack Bonus HD ׾ (as cleric)... <- did not understand this part. BAB is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD, ergo, 2 HD total = +1 BAB. Wolf already has BAB +1 so it would have BAB +2, right? then what is that thing of the 3/4 as cleric?

Another HD would mean all of the above plus a feat, and another HD would mean + ability scores?

Nope, each animal starts with the HD listed in it's entry. Riding dogs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm) start with 2, a Hawk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hawk.htm) with 1, a heavy horse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm#horseHeavy) with 3.

All added HD are added to the base. The base is exactly as listed in the monster entry.

Animals gain saves and such from gaining animal HD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType). It's like a class with no actual class features, just a 1d8HD 3/4th bab, and good fort and reflex saves. All animals gain their con mod in extra HP added to their HD just like everything else. A 3HD animal with a 14 con has 3d8 (3x1d8)+6 (3x2) Hp.

Animals get 2 skill points per level, but that is reduced by their very low int. In practice, they all just get 1 skill point per level.

The easiest way to figure out the save and BAB is to take the animals HD and look at the cleric class entry. It's BAB is that of a cleric of it's same HD. The fort and reflex save is the same base bonus as listed in the cleric's fort or will save (good saves). It's will is the same as the cleric's reflex save (bad saves).

[Zaetar]

Nope, each animal starts with the HD listed in it's entry. Riding dogs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm) start with 2, a Hawk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hawk.htm) with 1, a heavy horse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm#horseHeavy) with 3.

All added HD are added to the base. The base is exactly as listed in the monster entry.

Animals gain saves and such from gaining animal HD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType). It's like a class with no actual class features, just a 1d8HD 3/4th bab, and good fort and reflex saves. All animals gain their con mod in extra HP added to their HD just like everything else. A 3HD animal with a 14 con has 3d8 (3x1d8)+6 (3x2) Hp.

Animals get 2 skill points per level, but that is reduced by their very low int. In practice, they all just get 1 skill point per level.

The easiest way to figure out the save and BAB is to take the animals HD and look at the cleric class entry. It's BAB is that of a cleric of it's same HD. The fort and reflex save is the same base bonus as listed in the cleric's fort or will save (good saves). It's will is the same as the cleric's reflex save (bad saves).

Okay... let me rephrase the example then:
Warbeast Wolf extra HD would end up:
Extra HD, +3 STR +3 CON +2 WIS, +10 ft., +1 listen + 1 spot.

Hit Dice: 3d8+12
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2 (2.25)/+2
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +2, Listen +4, Move Silently +3, Spot +4, Survival +1*
Feats: Track(b), Weapon Focus (bite), <new feat>

Did I miss anything?

[Fouredged Sword]

Okay... let me rephrase the example then:
Warbeast Wolf extra HD would end up:
Extra HD, +3 STR +3 CON +2 WIS, +10 ft., +1 listen + 1 spot.

Hit Dice: 3d8+12
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2 (2.25)/+2
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +2, Listen +4, Move Silently +3, Spot +4, Survival +1*
Feats: Track(b), Weapon Focus (bite), <new feat>

Did I miss anything?

I am not double checking your math, but yes, that looks correct.

Checking math -

You're con mod if 15, so +2, so you get 3x2 bonus HP due to con, so 6. Not sure where you got 12.

Ah, you didn't add in the bonus stats to the stat block. The wolf has Str 19, Con 19, Wis 16. This works out.

Keep in mind that this changes it's skill modifiers. You have to work backwards to find the original skill ranks.

[Zaetar]

I am not double checking your math, but yes, that looks correct.

Checking math -

You're con mod if 15, so +2, so you get 3x2 bonus HP due to con, so 6. Not sure where you got 12.

warbeast Con +3 = 18, so +4.

Also missed the saves... not sure which, the lvl 3 cleric would do then? +3 +1 +3? Then end up Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +5? And skills... i decide which from the ones it already has? 2+ int (2)...

This is more annoying than i thought. I cant believe there is people playing with armies of this stuff.

[Fouredged Sword]

warbeast Con +3 = 18, so +4.

Also missed the saves... not sure which, the lvl 3 cleric would do then? +3 +1 +3? Then end up Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +5? And skills... i decide which from the ones it already has? 2+ int (2)

You are right on the saves. The skills have to be worked backwards from the stat block of the base animal. To break down wolf, you have the following.

Hide +2 (wolf has +2 dex mod, no skill ranks)
Listen +3 (+1 wis mod, so 2 rank)
Move Silently +3 (+2 dex mod, so 1 rank)
Spot +3 (+1 wis mod, so 2 rank)
Survival +1 (+1 wis mod, so no ranks)

This accounts for the 4 skill ranks a wolf has at 1HD, Listen 2 ranks, Move silently 1 rank, spot 2 ranks.

You get to add the increased attribute mods to the skills that already exist and add an extra skill point per HD (2 +int per rank, but the int is a major negative so it defaults to 1)


- There is a reason that many DM's ban all forms of minion. The book keeping is a pain. At least familiars just copy the wizard's ranks and HP.

[Zaetar]

The saves are that of a cleric but the entry on animals says Good Fort and Ref saves, do i still keep the cleric ones for Fort +3 Ref +1 Will +3, or do i change it to +3 +3 +1?

Wolf has 2 int, wouldnt it count towards skills to end up 2+2 instead of 2+1? Nevermind me, forgot its bonus modifier.

Yeah I have an alternate feature as an option too... though I dont think my DM will allow cityscape to let me get a modified familiar instead of a companion.

[Urpriest]

The saves are that of a cleric but the entry on animals says Good Fort and Ref saves, do i still keep the cleric ones for Fort +3 Ref +1 Will +3, or do i change it to +3 +3 +1?

Wolf has 2 int, wouldnt it count towards skills to end up 2+2 instead of 2+1? Nevermind me, forgot its bonus modifier.

Yeah I have an alternate feature as an option too... though I dont think my DM will allow cityscape to let me get a modified familiar instead of a companion.

The animal type explicitly says that while most animals have good Fort and Ref, some animals are different. Wolves also have good Fort and Ref, I don't know where you got the "as a Cleric" from.

[Khedrac]

The animal type explicitly says that while most animals have good Fort and Ref, some animals are different. Wolves also have good Fort and Ref, I don't know where you got the "as a Cleric" from.
Whilst true, it's also not actually relevant to Animal Companions! Despite the rule that they must be a "normal" animal of their type, the rules go on to say:

An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves.

[Zaetar]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#tableCreatureImprovementbyTy pe

the as cleric would come from the HD? as reference? If not please tell me the progression because i cant find any table about it anywhere.

So... does it stay +3+1+3 or +3+3+1?

[DEMON]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#tableCreatureImprovementbyTy pe
the as cleric would come from the HD? as reference? If not please tell me the progression because i cant find any table about it anywhere.

BAB is 3/4 (as a Cleric). Good saves are For and Ref (for Animal Companion).

At 3 HD your base saves are 3 / 3 / 1.

[DEMON]

Okay... let me rephrase the example then:
Warbeast Wolf extra HD would end up:
Extra HD, +3 STR +3 CON +2 WIS, +10 ft., +1 listen + 1 spot.

Hit Dice: 3d8+12
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2 (2.25)/+2
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2) +6 melee (+2 base +3 str +1 weapon focus) and 1d6 +4 damage (+3 str x 1.5)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2) same as above
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +2 For +7 (3+4), Ref +5 (3+2), Will +3 (1+2)
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6 Con +18
Skills: Hide +2, Listen +4, Move Silently +3, Spot +4, Survival +1* <1 more skill point>
Feats: Track(b), Weapon Focus (bite), <new feat>

Did I miss anything?

Corrections above in red. It's near midnight here, so I might have made some mistakes myself. Please double check.

[Zaetar]

Thanks guys! Now I need to wait... wait for the DM to make a roc grab my companion and throw it from the stratosphere.

[Zaetar]

Corrections above in red. It's near midnight here, so I might have made some mistakes myself. Please double check.

The saves would be +10+8+3, the ones i had there were modified by the warbeast template.

I swear this is the last time im making something with a minion...

[DEMON]

The saves would be +10+8+3, the ones i had there were modified by the warbeast template.

I swear this is the last time im making something with a minion...

Does warbeast add a save bonus? If not, where does the +10 and +8 come from?

Your base for 3 HD are +3 / +3 / +1 and your abilities are CON 18 (+4), DEX 15 (+2) and WIS 14 (+2), for a total of +7 / +5 / +3.

What am I missing?

And what am I doing still awake?

[Zaetar]

Does warbeast add a save bonus? If not, where does the +10 and +8 come from?

Your base for 3 HD are +3 / +3 / +1 and your abilities are CON 18 (+4), DEX 15 (+2) and WIS 14 (+2), for a total of +7 / +5 / +3.

What am I missing?

And what am I doing still awake?

http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/warbeast.shtml

Abilities: Increase from base creature as follows: Str +3, Dex +0, Con +3, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha +0.

Wolf has Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1 base.
With Warbeast it ends up +7+5+2 from the +3 Con and +2 Wis.
With the extra HD it would get another +3+3+1 ending up being +10+8+3

[DEMON]

http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/warbeast.shtml

Abilities: Increase from base creature as follows: Str +3, Dex +0, Con +3, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha +0.

Wolf has Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1 base.
With Warbeast it ends up +7+5+2 from the +3 Con and +2 Wis.
With the extra HD it would get another +3+3+1 ending up being +10+8+3

Nope, does not work like that.

Your saves improve to +3 / +3 / +1, not by +3 / +3 / +1.

Your base save bonuses improve like this:

1HD Good +2, Bad 0
2HD Good +3, Bad 0
3HD Good +3, Bad +1
4HD Good +4, Bad +1
...
You start at +2 for a good save and add additional +1 at each even number of HD (+3 at 2, +4 at 4 etc.). You start at 0 for a bad save and add +1 at each multiple of 3 of HD (+1 at 3, +2 at 6 etc.)

Then you add the ability modifiers (CON for For, Dex for REF and WIS for Will by default) and any other bonuses for feats, class features etc.

Wolf is +5 / +5 / +1 and only adds +1 Will for the HD increase. The increase in CON and WIS add another +2 to For and +1 to Will.

[Zaetar]

Nope, does not work like that.

Your saves improve to +3 / +3 / +1, not by +3 / +3 / +1.

Your base save bonuses improve like this:

1HD Good +2, Bad 0
2HD Good +3, Bad 0
3HD Good +3, Bad +1
4HD Good +4, Bad +1
...
You start at +2 for a good save and add additional +1 at each even number of HD (+3 at 2, +4 at 4 etc.). You start at 0 for a bad save and add +1 at each multiple of 3 of HD (+1 at 3, +2 at 6 etc.)

Then you add the ability modifiers (CON for For, Dex for REF and WIS for Will by default) and any other bonuses for feats, class features etc.

Wolf is +5 / +5 / +1 and only adds +1 Will for the HD increase. The increase in CON and WIS add another +2 to For and +1 to Will.

Oh I see, makes sense, thanks!

Will be saving your comment on a worpad for future reference if you dont mind.

[Bullet06320]

I swear this is the last time im making something with a minion...

just gotta love DM's that intentionally target minions, familars and spellbooks everytime

[Fouredged Sword]

just gotta love DM's that intentionally target minions, familars and spellbooks everytime

I don't mind when a minion that can easily be replaced is trashed. Familiars is more of an issue. Remember, if he kills your animal companion, you can call another that is almost exactly the same!

[Zaetar]

I don't mind when a minion that can easily be replaced is trashed. Familiars is more of an issue. Remember, if he kills your animal companion, you can call another that is almost exactly the same!

Yeah but... the armor... the warbeast training... hurts...economy is deadlier than a necromancer

[DEMON]

Yeah but... the armor... the warbeast training... hurts...economy is deadlier than a necromancer

Early on, yes. Once you level up a bit, the WBL should fast outpace the expenses on your little helper.

Also depends on what armor you bought for the animal and what equipment you use yourself, of course.

[Elkad]

Like every other character or sidekick not wearing heavy armor, the best method is often to buy your wizard more pearls of power. Mage Armor requires no training for your animal to use, doesn't encumber him, and doesn't take feats.
Using the Perform trick to have your animal wear a costume and using Magic Vestment is another option.

Of course if you really want to spend the cash, you go with enchanted armor, same as a player.
If it isn't a "ye olde magic shoppe" world (and many games aren't), handing down your old rings of protection and amulets of natural armor is a reasonable thing to do vs taking half-value for them in cash.

Also, Masters of the Wild (3.0, never updated AFAIK) lists "Armor" as a trick an animal can learn, vs burning a feat.