Brandon Sanderson

[danzibr]

What are your thoughts of his work? I saw his name mentioned in another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?459920-Long-Term-Schemes-in-Fiction) (well, it's happened a good few times, but that one most recently) and I'm considering reading his stuff. I did happen to read the entire Wheel of Time series and so my current opinion of him is not very high, but if people can vouch for his other works I might give them a go.

[Lethologica]

Based on having read the Mistborn series (+ AoL + 20 pages of WoK): Likes his epic-scale conflicts, a little too much emphasis on the abstract features of the setting/magic system for my taste, but does have interesting settings/magic systems. Engaging on an action level, somewhat less so on a character/writing level. Mixed feelings on the endings, which are often clever but always self-consciously clever.

[Flickerdart]

I read the Mistborn books and found them rather flat and boring. Then I read The Way of Kings, a 1000 page book where nothing happens. Now I don't read Brandon Sanderson anymore.

[Seerow]

I got introduced to him via Wheel of Time as well, but had a different opinion. While Wheel of Time wasn't his best work, and he obviously struggled to capture the voice of several key characters, I feel like his work with Wheel of Time was all we could have hoped for after Robert Jordan died, and was very satisfied with it.


That said, his own work is generally better and more tightly written than anything in WoT. Which isn't to say he is a master of prose (I like his writing, but it is not something I will read just for the quality of wordsmithing like I would for say Patrick Rothfuss), but rather than he keeps his stories and plotlines relatively focused, and avoids the traps so many fantasy writers fall into of getting lost in his own worlds.

Also probably the coolest thing about his fantasy series is most of them existing within the same universe, spread across a half dozen different worlds. Thus far there is only minimal interaction between them, but there is occasional crossover happening in the background, and the stories are littered for easter eggs for readers with an interest in that sort of thing. And he does seem to be building towards an endgame where all of these worlds do crossover to a much greater degree, which is cool.


As for where to start? It depends on what you're looking for.

Mistborn is generally a very strong starting point. It's a trilogy of novels, and if you enjoy it there's another series of novels set in a different time period of the same world. If I had to guess reading Mistborn was what got RJ's wife to say "This is the guy who should finish Wheel of Time" just based on some of the themes of the Trilogy.

For a lighter entry, I'd recommend The Emperor's Soul or The Reckoners, depending on your taste.

The Emperor's Soul is a novella, so relatively low investment, and showcases the best parts of Brandon's writing, while mostly avoiding the big setpiece action scenes that he generally leans on for his larger books.

The Reckoners is a YA trilogy, taking place in the near future real world instead of his cosmere, and is a setting where supers have started showing up, but every one of them is a villain. Despite it being YA I immensely enjoy the series and am looking forward to the 3rd and final book coming out next year.


If you want to jump off the deep end and get neck deep into a new Wheel of Time style epic fantasy though, you want the Stormlight Archives. It's currently only got 2 books currently out of a planned 10 (which will be broken into 2 5 book cycles), but you the books are very obviously set up to be more sprawling with a wider cast of characters and a very large world to explore. It's still fairly well focused, but you get lots of different PoVs in various places, including interludes from characters you only see for a chapter or two to give an insight into what's going on in other parts of the world. It's my favorite series of Brandon's, but if you're still wanting to test the waters and see if you want to give him a shot, this probably isn't the place to start.

[The New Bruceski]

Also probably the coolest thing about his fantasy series is most of them existing within the same universe, spread across a half dozen different worlds. Thus far there is only minimal interaction between them, but there is occasional crossover happening in the background, and the stories are littered for easter eggs for readers with an interest in that sort of thing. And he does seem to be building towards an endgame where all of these worlds do crossover to a much greater degree, which is cool.


To be clear, this is in the form of "easter eggs for attentive readers" rather than necessary to following along. You don't need to read everything he's written to enjoy Random Book X. The Stormlight Archives is the first time it's become explicit, and still not in a "need to have read the other books" way.

His main thing is playing with different ideas of magic systems, and trying to shape the world/people around those systems. If a magic system is based around gaining use/perception of sound/color, the society is going to be very colorful and characters with the power are going to note the colors of objects more than the material they're made out of. A foreigner is going to note a bunch of details and odd creatures that a native didn't give a second glance to a few chapters ago. He doesn't get really out there with his consequences of such systems (it's still generally generic mideval-ish fantasy with some exceptions) but at least he makes the attempt and I enjoy that sort of thing.

I would skip Elantris as a first-read. I enjoy the book but it was the first one he wrote and it definitely shows, so read some of his other stuff before trying it. Then there's Mistborn (ragtag heroes fighting an all-powerful Lord Ruler, with some twists), Warbreaker (political marriage leads to intrigue), The Stormlight Archive (large world-spanning epic fantasy), and the Wax/Wayne books (Mistborn world three hundred years later, Old West/Age of Steam). And there are some other one-ofs, a young adult dark satire series (Alcatraz and the Evil Librarians), and a smattering of other books.

[Douglas]

I read the Mistborn books and found them rather flat and boring. Then I read The Way of Kings, a 1000 page book where nothing happens. Now I don't read Brandon Sanderson anymore.
In my opinion you have a very strange definition of "nothing". Sure, a rather large portion of it is character development rather than events for the history textbooks, but there is a lot that happens in the book.


What are your thoughts of his work? I saw his name mentioned in another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?459920-Long-Term-Schemes-in-Fiction) (well, it's happened a good few times, but that one most recently) and I'm considering reading his stuff. I did happen to read the entire Wheel of Time series and so my current opinion of him is not very high, but if people can vouch for his other works I might give them a go.
What, exactly, about his work in the Wheel of Time is so unimpressive to you? Personally he's my favorite author and I like (to varying degrees) everything he's published, but I like his WoT books a lot too, so our tastes in literature clearly have some differences.

I would suggest trying Mistborn to see if you like it without committing to too much.

As for why I like him:
His worlds tend to be very strange in one way or another, often but not always having to do with the world's magic, yet fundamentally make sense in a way that is detailed, cohesive, and draws me in while simultaneously presenting some mystery.
His characters cover quite a variety, and develop and bounce off each other in interesting ways while consistently staying true to themselves.
His endings tend to be both surprising and well supported at the same time.
I like epic scope, and he does that a lot.


Also probably the coolest thing about his fantasy series is most of them existing within the same universe, spread across a half dozen different worlds.
That's cool for people who already read a lot of his books, but I don't think it's much of a selling point for someone just looking to check him out.


If I had to guess reading Mistborn was what got RJ's wife to say "This is the guy who should finish Wheel of Time" just based on some of the themes of the Trilogy.
You can stop guessing, that's exactly right. She has stated publicly, many times, that Mistborn is what convinced her to pick him. An essay from his blog about what Robert Jordan meant to him and how he felt about RJ's death is what brought him to her attention, Mistborn is what convinced her that he was the right author to finish the series.

[Selrahc]

Mistborn Book 1 was alright, full of interesting ideas and with a decent plot, but deeply flawed in writing, particularly characterization. Just felt a bit flat and cliched. The second and third books were pretty weak all round, not really developing the world in an interesting way.

Way of Kings 1 was much better written, but had a fairly static plot. Book 2 builds up a lot more momentum, but I felt like a lot of the characters ended up looping back into the same personal issues they'd already dealt with in book 1. It's kept my interest enough that I'll read the third one, but I'm hoping it improves.

I thought Emperor's Soul was really good though. It's short too, and completely stand alone. If you want to see if you'll like Sanderson, start here.

The other one of his books I've read is Rithmatist. I liked that one too, but it was definitely a more light, throwaway story.

[danzibr]

What, exactly, about his work in the Wheel of Time is so unimpressive to you? Personally he's my favorite author and I like (to varying degrees) everything he's published, but I like his WoT books a lot too, so our tastes in literature clearly have some differences.
Rand said, "[...]"
Min said, "[...]"
Rand said, "[...]"
Min said, "[...]"

It may not have been Rand and Min, but damn did he overuse that format for dialogue. Boring.

Also, I forget the names, that chick saying to Androl (or not?) about the other guy preferring men. I don't mind homosexuality in books, but what's that phrase? Show, don't tell? I didn't like that he made such a big deal out of it. It was like... "Looky here, I put in a gay character."

Also, Androl.

Also, the chapter on boots.

[Douglas]

The second and third books were pretty weak all round, not really developing the world in an interesting way.
Considering what happened in those books... I disagree. Strongly.


Rand said, "[...]"
Min said, "[...]"
Rand said, "[...]"
Min said, "[...]"

It may not have been Rand and Min, but damn did he overuse that format for dialogue. Boring.
Huh. To me, "X said" or any equivalent is just something I skip over without even noticing on the way to the actually meaningful part (the dialogue itself). Keeping it minimal, just identifying who's saying each line, seems perfect and standard.


Also, I forget the names, that chick saying to Androl (or not?) about the other guy preferring men. I don't mind homosexuality in books, but what's that phrase? Show, don't tell? I didn't like that he made such a big deal out of it. It was like... "Looky here, I put in a gay character."
That made so little impression on me that I don't even remember it. It seems to me that things like that are subjectively a big deal only for people who are especially sensitive to the issue in advance. Regardless, I don't recall any big deal made of homosexuality in any of his other books.


Also, Androl.
On that score, it depends a great deal on why you dislike Androl. Androl was, essentially, Brandon's original character created in part to give him a vehicle for playing around with a part of the magic system that he found interesting. The other reason for Androl's existence was to be a viewpoint in the Black Tower. If you don't like how Androl fits in with the rest of the series and setting, that's irrelevant to whether you'll like Brandon's other books where he made the setting along with the characters. If you don't like Androl's characterization, that's an uncertain sign, Brandon has a lot of different characters. If you don't like how Androl did various clever tricks with gateways, that's a sign you might dislike Brandon's writing overall, because "clever tricks with magic" is a staple of his books.


Also, the chapter on boots.
No idea on this one.

[industrious]

I view Sanderson almost like a "mechanical author" - a friend of mine things that that characterization is unfair, but it fits. He cranks out books roughly twice a year, and they tend to focus around a system of internally consistent magic and how that magic is used. He is very, very good at creating these magic systems. Sanderson's weak point has been his characterization - the characters are almost always flat to some extent or other in his earlier works. Stormlight Archive is, despite being the Big Epic Fantasy he's writing, is actually much better at addressing this weakness.

Two other themes he brings to the fore are a) religion - he does a great deal about gods, religion, and the nature of the fantastical divine, more than most authors I've read - and b) money - this one is more subtle, but money nearly always figures into his magic system in some form or the other.

I like reading his books - he's a decent and creative author.

[Anteros]

Basically he's good at world building and creating interesting magic systems, but pretty bad at everything else. As a result, his one offs are pretty good but longer more character driven stories are pretty awful.

Mistborn is terrible outside of the first book. His work on WoT is atrocious (to be fair, he wasn't a good choice for the type of writing required for this series).

Elantris and Warbreaker were both decent though because he mostly focused on the world and magic and they ended before he really got into the characters. I haven't read any of his other stuff, but I would not be optimistic about any series that lasts longer than 1 book in the same setting.



Considering what happened in those books... I disagree. Strongly.


Huh. To me, "X said" or any equivalent is just something I skip over without even noticing on the way to the actually meaningful part (the dialogue itself). Keeping it minimal, just identifying who's saying each line, seems perfect and standard.


That made so little impression on me that I don't even remember it. It seems to me that things like that are subjectively a big deal only for people who are especially sensitive to the issue in advance. Regardless, I don't recall any big deal made of homosexuality in any of his other books.


On that score, it depends a great deal on why you dislike Androl. Androl was, essentially, Brandon's original character created in part to give him a vehicle for playing around with a part of the magic system that he found interesting. The other reason for Androl's existence was to be a viewpoint in the Black Tower. If you don't like how Androl fits in with the rest of the series and setting, that's irrelevant to whether you'll like Brandon's other books where he made the setting along with the characters. If you don't like Androl's characterization, that's an uncertain sign, Brandon has a lot of different characters. If you don't like how Androl did various clever tricks with gateways, that's a sign you might dislike Brandon's writing overall, because "clever tricks with magic" is a staple of his books.


No idea on this one.

Unfortunately, the fact that you skip over bad writing doesn't mean the writing isn't still terrible for the rest of us. Also, the gay character thing...yeah, he announced how progressive he was being on Twitter before putting the character in. It was entirely "look how progressive I'm being" rather than an honest effort to include such a character as normal.

On Androl...there are really far too many problems to list. Suffice to say that a lot of people feel like the climax of a 25 year long series should actually involve the main characters from the last 25 years rather than a last minute Mary-Sue author insert. As crazy as that seems. :smallsigh:

[Selrahc]

Considering what happened in those books... I disagree. Strongly.
.

Well, feel free to elaborate.


The first novel had an interesting antagonist(who could have stood to be better developed). The second and third novel had a nebulous antagonist. It moved from fighting an oppressive functional regime, led by an evil man who thinks he is doing good, to fighting against a universal force of uncomplicated evil. Blah blah blah.

And Elend becoming king was nonsensical. The vast Empire described in the first book didn't get any prominence. The collapse of a kingdom that has been around for thousands of years is just not given weight. The second book is in the middle of that collapse, and it comes across as nothing more than a squabble between Elend and his dad.

The third book was better than the second, and it actually all built up to a good climax. Sazed is a good character. But I didn't like the harmony-ruin plotline at all, and that's what it was built around. Evil mind controlling spikes aren't a good plot device.

[Tvtyrant]

I really like Sanderson. I think his biggest issue is that he is clearly a visual person, so he describes combat in excruciating detail. Seriously the exact placement of Vin's coins at any given time are not why I am reading the book!

I think Sanderson would be much, much better with a coauthor and with each fight scene sliced down to a page.

[JeenLeen]

He's one of my favorite authors. The thing I like most about his writing is that his books have an internally-consistent metaphysics. They are not always explicitly stated, but there are hard rules about what works and what doesn't. (Even if characters might think there's no rules behind it, by the end of the book you probably have a decent idea of the rules.) Often a major plot-twist is based on characters finding out something they thought about their world's metaphysics is true is actually false or figuring out a new use for a power. I can understand some people not being interested in such, but as someone who finds magic systems and fantasy metaphysics immensely interesting, I greatly enjoy his work. His world-building is also very well done (often tied into the metaphysics.) Something I'm looking forward to in his Stormlight books is learning more of the over-arching metaphysics of his cosmology.

One of his big strong points is that characters explain or show the world naturally. Even if a world is rather different than earth, he doesn't just state the difference but rather shows it through the thoughts and actions of in-world characters.

I guess I can see arguments that his writing style isn't the best, but I think it's at least decent. And I think most of his characters are pretty 3-dimensional, so his characterization is up to par.


I really like Sanderson. I think his biggest issue is that he is clearly a visual person, so he describes combat in excruciating detail. Seriously the exact placement of Vin's coins at any given time are not why I am reading the book!

I think Sanderson would be much, much better with a coauthor and with each fight scene sliced down to a page.

I can agree with this. I often (with any author) get a little bored with combat scenes and end up skimming them. With Sanderson's books, I've often missed a crucial detail to understanding the metaphysics because I misread or didn't read a detail about power use in a fight. (And one book I think I just misread who did something, leading to a lot of confusion.) But that's more a personal issue/taste than an issue with Sanderson. I would prefer the fight scenes to be shorter, but I feel that way about almost any book that has combat scenes.

[danzibr]

Huh. To me, "X said" or any equivalent is just something I skip over without even noticing on the way to the actually meaningful part (the dialogue itself). Keeping it minimal, just identifying who's saying each line, seems perfect and standard.

That made so little impression on me that I don't even remember it. It seems to me that things like that are subjectively a big deal only for people who are especially sensitive to the issue in advance. Regardless, I don't recall any big deal made of homosexuality in any of his other books.

On that score, it depends a great deal on why you dislike Androl. Androl was, essentially, Brandon's original character created in part to give him a vehicle for playing around with a part of the magic system that he found interesting. The other reason for Androl's existence was to be a viewpoint in the Black Tower. If you don't like how Androl fits in with the rest of the series and setting, that's irrelevant to whether you'll like Brandon's other books where he made the setting along with the characters. If you don't like Androl's characterization, that's an uncertain sign, Brandon has a lot of different characters. If you don't like how Androl did various clever tricks with gateways, that's a sign you might dislike Brandon's writing overall, because "clever tricks with magic" is a staple of his books.

No idea on this one.
Interesting. You seem to have forgotten many things which I disliked.

Unfortunately, the fact that you skip over bad writing doesn't mean the writing isn't still terrible for the rest of us. Also, the gay character thing...yeah, he announced how progressive he was being on Twitter before putting the character in. It was entirely "look how progressive I'm being" rather than an honest effort to include such a character as normal.

On Androl...there are really far too many problems to list. Suffice to say that a lot of people feel like the climax of a 25 year long series should actually involve the main characters from the last 25 years rather than a last minute Mary-Sue author insert. As crazy as that seems. :smallsigh:
Yup.

[Douglas]

Unfortunately, the fact that you skip over bad writing doesn't mean the writing isn't still terrible for the rest of us. Also, the gay character thing...yeah, he announced how progressive he was being on Twitter before putting the character in. It was entirely "look how progressive I'm being" rather than an honest effort to include such a character as normal.
Do you have a link to the tweet so I can see the wording? He makes a LOT of tweets about a lot of things, including many miscellaneous details of what he's writing, and I'm not convinced it wasn't just yet another random detail.


On Androl...there are really far too many problems to list. Suffice to say that a lot of people feel like the climax of a 25 year long series should actually involve the main characters from the last 25 years rather than a last minute Mary-Sue author insert. As crazy as that seems. :smallsigh:
If you're talking about the Black Tower plot specifically, you have a point. If you're talking about the series as a whole, Androl's portion of the climax was one part among dozens, and a fairly small part at that.


Well, feel free to elaborate.


The first novel had an interesting antagonist(who could have stood to be better developed). The second and third novel had a nebulous antagonist. It moved from fighting an oppressive functional regime, led by an evil man who thinks he is doing good, to fighting against a universal force of uncomplicated evil. Blah blah blah.

And Elend becoming king was nonsensical. The vast Empire described in the first book didn't get any prominence. The collapse of a kingdom that has been around for thousands of years is just not given weight. The second book is in the middle of that collapse, and it comes across as nothing more than a squabble between Elend and his dad.

The third book was better than the second, and it actually all built up to a good climax. Sazed is a good character. But I didn't like the harmony-ruin plotline at all, and that's what it was built around. Evil mind controlling spikes aren't a good plot device.

The first book was fighting against an evil man who is evil, and that was pretty much it. There was a small hint at the end that he thinks he's doing good, but that's all, unless you count his perpetual frustration with the peasants always resisting him. The backstory and explanations that make him well intentioned don't come out until books 2 and 3, and those explanations developed the world in interesting ways.

Sure, Ruin isn't particularly complex, but the sheer magnitude of power and knowledge disparity between him and the protagonists made for an interesting conflict dynamic.

I never really got the impression that the Lord Ruler's empire was vast. It was just that there was nothing outside it but barren wasteland. As for its collapse, I don't think Rashek was really involved much in the day to day operation of things - most of the empire could function just fine without him, so the aftermath of his death was mostly just politics until Ruin got active. Book 2's politics came across as mostly a squabble between Elend and his dad because that's kind of what it was - the coup began with engineering a major house war, remember, so all the other major would-be claimants were some combination of dead, driven off, or intimidated.

I happened to like the Preservation-Ruin plotline, so *shrug*. Different people, different opinions.

[Anteros]

Do you have a link to the tweet so I can see the wording? He makes a LOT of tweets about a lot of things, including many miscellaneous details of what he's writing, and I'm not convinced it wasn't just yet another random detail.



No, I don't save random Tweets. It was a whole...thing though. I'm sure you could dig up the whole silly debate on the Dragonmount forums if you wanted. For what it's worth, I didn't really think it was that bad in the book itself . I wouldn't have thought it particularly out of place without the whole Tweet controversy.




If you're talking about the Black Tower plot specifically, you have a point. If you're talking about the series as a whole, Androl's portion of the climax was one part among dozens, and a fairly small part at that.




He's almost half the book. He has more screen time than any other character including the ones the book is supposed to actually be about.

Androl subplots in AMoL:
Androl solves the Black Tower crisis
Androl resolves the Aes Sedai bonding Asha'man subplot
Androl saves the armies at Caemlyn
Androl invents a new type of waygate instrumental to winning the last battle
Androl comes up with a new super special form of telepathy with his Aes Sedai warder
Androl has red ajah Aes sedai falling in love with him
Androl saves the keys to the Dark One's prison
Androl convinces Logain to help the refugees instead of going after the Sa'angreal
Androl saves the Dragon cannons for the last battle.
Androl captures the remaining Black Ajah

It's not even Wheel of Time at this point. It's "The Adventures of Androl! With Occasional Special Guest Appearances by WoT Characters!"

I have no idea how Sanderson ever thought it was an acceptable conclusion to the series, and no idea how it made it past editing.

[Lord Raziere]

One of my favorite authors, I'd have to tilt my head at people who say he has bad characterization though, all the characters seem to have motivations that make sense, reactions that make sense and character development that makes you feel emotions for them, and the situations he creates are often very dynamic and chaotic as a climax that does't feel artificial or planned out, yet everything works out in a way that fits together anyways. that and who else are you going to find with such great magic systems?

[Selrahc]

The first book was fighting against an evil man who is evil, and that was pretty much it. There was a small hint at the end that he thinks he's doing good, but that's all, unless you count his perpetual frustration with the peasants always resisting him. The backstory and explanations that make him well intentioned don't come out until books 2 and 3, and those explanations developed the world in interesting ways.

Sure, Ruin isn't particularly complex, but the sheer magnitude of power and knowledge disparity between him and the protagonists made for an interesting conflict dynamic.

I never really got the impression that the Lord Ruler's empire was vast. It was just that there was nothing outside it but barren wasteland. As for its collapse, I don't think Rashek was really involved much in the day to day operation of things - most of the empire could function just fine without him, so the aftermath of his death was mostly just politics until Ruin got active. Book 2's politics came across as mostly a squabble between Elend and his dad because that's kind of what it was - the coup began with engineering a major house war, remember, so all the other major would-be claimants were some combination of dead, driven off, or intimidated.

I happened to like the Preservation-Ruin plotline, so *shrug*. Different people, different opinions.


I think you're looking back on the first book with knowledge you gained later. In the first book for the majority of the story we are presented with extracts from the journal of the man we believe is the Emperor, and in the clips we are presented he comes across as genuine and benevolent. The discovery that he is not that man and is in fact Rashek, is at the centre of the plot to defeat him. For most of the novel the presentation is that the man who became the emperor is thinking mostly of the good of others in his earliest memoirs... so why has he done the things he has done? It's interesting. Much more interesting than Ruin.

The world being "mostly barren" seems like an impression you have picked up more from the later books, because in the first book there are constant references to the scale of the empire, the vast canalways linking to the outer dominances which supply the bustling interior. But the unruly outer fringes are where the majority of the vast legions are stationed. The far off Terris dominance, where one of the main characters originates from, and where the Emperor is actually from. That same character constantly regales the group with extinct religions from the many cultures of the world that have been brought to heel. The world in the first book felt busy. And in the second book it felt small.

(I also felt like the collapse of the really really brutal divide between Skaa and Nobles didn't get enough narrative attention. That was maybe too difficult a subject to handle well though.)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

One of my favorite authors, I'd have to tilt my head at people who say he has bad characterization though, all the characters seem to have motivations that make sense, reactions that make sense and character development that makes you feel emotions for them, and the situations he creates are often very dynamic and chaotic as a climax that does't feel artificial or planned out, yet everything works out in a way that fits together anyways. that and who else are you going to find with such great magic systems?
I can see it in some of his books (at least, limited characterization), but anyone who says that in light of the existing Stormlight books? Man, I would recommend those books on the strength of their characterization. (Elantris as well, and Warbreaker has its really potent moments in terms of character work.)

[Anteros]

One of my favorite authors, I'd have to tilt my head at people who say he has bad characterization though, all the characters seem to have motivations that make sense, reactions that make sense and character development that makes you feel emotions for them, and the situations he creates are often very dynamic and chaotic as a climax that does't feel artificial or planned out, yet everything works out in a way that fits together anyways. that and who else are you going to find with such great magic systems?

I think his characters do have clear motivations and typically their actions make sense for those motivations. They're just also mostly one dimensional and shallow.



I can see it in some of his books (at least, limited characterization), but anyone who says that in light of the existing Stormlight books? Man, I would recommend those books on the strength of their characterization. (Elantris as well, and Warbreaker has its really potent moments in terms of character work.)

I haven't read Stormlight, but I wouldn't call the characterization in Elantris or Warbreaker particularly good. The characters are likable, but that's not the same as good. I do consider those two books to be his best work though.

[Pronounceable]

Sanderson is great. He's not talented, but I don't care about talent. Talent is overrated. I care about originality, which his works always provide. He also works so much harder than more talented writers, so I like him more than them. He's also improving exponentially with time and will be one of the greatest fantasy writers in a decade.

He does need cutting down though, every single one of his shorter works are better than his bigass epics.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I haven't read Stormlight, but I wouldn't call the characterization in Elantris or Warbreaker particularly good. The characters are likable, but that's not the same as good. I do consider those two books to be his best work though.
So for me, it's not necessarily the characterization of everyone in the stories, but rather the particular development of certain significant characters in those stories. The God-Emperor in Warbreaker, and Raoden in Elantris. There was a particular concept that he captured acutely in each of them, and he built that into something that resonated with me, at least.

[Anteros]

So for me, it's not necessarily the characterization of everyone in the stories, but rather the particular development of certain significant characters in those stories. The God-Emperor in Warbreaker, and Raoden in Elantris. There was a particular concept that he captured acutely in each of them, and he built that into something that resonated with me, at least.

Well, those are his best books. The problem is that for every Raoden there's 10 Vins or Vashers who are just shallow and boring.

[Douglas]

Well, those are his best books. The problem is that for every Raoden there's 10 Vins or Vashers who are just shallow and boring.
I disagree about Vin, and Vasher is mostly a background character. Important, but not the focus of much narrative.

[Anteros]

I disagree about Vin, and Vasher is mostly a background character. Important, but not the focus of much narrative.

A huge portion of the plot revolves around him. I would only consider him a background character because he has no personality.

[Dragonus45]

A huge portion of the plot revolves around him. I would only consider him a background character because he has no personality.

His actions have a great effect on the plot, and the setting really, but he himself doesn't actually do much in the story.

[Douglas]

He does things, and what he does has major consequences, but the plot of the book is fundamentally not his story.

Anyway, there are obviously strong and conflicting opinions about Brandon Sanderson's work. Typical for most popular authors, really. Hard to tell which side you'd agree with, danzibr, without actually trying a book for yourself. I recommend Mistborn for your trial book, or The Emperor's Soul if you prefer a stronger character focus.

[Starwulf]

I'd actually recommend Elantris, that was my first Sanderson book(totally by random, it's cover art piqued my interest at a yearly book sale I go to so I grabbed it), I loved it, but I really wish there were other books added onto it, the whole premise of it was flipping awesome and could have really been expanded upon.

[Douglas]

I'd actually recommend Elantris, that was my first Sanderson book(totally by random, it's cover art piqued my interest at a yearly book sale I go to so I grabbed it), I loved it, but I really wish there were other books added onto it, the whole premise of it was flipping awesome and could have really been expanded upon.
I liked Elantris, but it was his very first published book and he's improved a lot since then.

[Anteros]

I'll second Elantris, and say Warbreaker is good as well. Despite my comments about Sanderson in the thread, these two books were fairly decent. I really don't recommend the Mistborn series at all. The first book isn't terrible, but the second two are quite bad.

[Lethologica]

FWIW, the first Mistborn book can be read as a standalone if someone isn't sure whether they want to complete the trilogy. That's a perfectly serviceable way to get a first look at Sanderson, with obvious follow-up material if they decide they like what they see.

[Kitten Champion]

I like Sanderson. He feels rather comic-book-y with his overt attention to superpowers (which feel like superhero superpowers rather than magic) and world-building, all with rather straightforward modern heroic characters as leads. I would agree you can see the mechanics behind his writing quite clearly.

Still, ultimately I find him entertaining. I suppose for much the same reason I'll read some superhero comics, though his stories generally have a bit more creative pop and overall consistency in vision than you'd find in the more popular comics I could mention.

[Saph]

Wheel of Time: I think we just have to accept that there really wasn't anyone in the world who was going be able to finish the series in Robert Jordan's voice, with Robert Jordan's writing style, with the characters acting exactly as they did in Robert Jordan's (better) books. So while Sanderson's three final books weren't a perfect ending, I thought he did a pretty good job with what he had to work with, and I'm willing to cut him a lot of slack for the fact that he actually finished the series instead of giving us another Crossroads of Twilight.

Mistborn trilogy: It's good. The characters aren't amazing, but it has some nice ideas and the magic system is very well done. Kind of like most of Sanderson's books, really. I enjoyed it enough to read all three, though I don't think I'd go back and read them again.

Stormlight Archive: These are a step up from the Mistborn books IMO. As other people have mentioned, Sanderson has a serious work ethic, and you can see the effects if you read Stormlight after Mistborn – he's a noticeably better writer now than he was then. I much prefer Shallan and Kaladin to Vin and Elend, and I love the descriptions of the world.

[huttj509]

Wheel of Time: I think we just have to accept that there really wasn't anyone in the world who was going be able to finish the series in Robert Jordan's voice, with Robert Jordan's writing style, with the characters acting exactly as they did in Robert Jordan's (better) books. So while Sanderson's three final books weren't a perfect ending, I thought he did a pretty good job with what he had to work with, and I'm willing to cut him a lot of slack for the fact that he actually finished the series instead of giving us another Crossroads of Twilight.

Mistborn trilogy: It's good. The characters aren't amazing, but it has some nice ideas and the magic system is very well done. Kind of like most of Sanderson's books, really. I enjoyed it enough to read all three, though I don't think I'd go back and read them again.

Stormlight Archive: These are a step up from the Mistborn books IMO. As other people have mentioned, Sanderson has a serious work ethic, and you can see the effects if you read Stormlight after Mistborn – he's a noticeably better writer now than he was then. I much prefer Shallan and Kaladin to Vin and Elend, and I love the descriptions of the world.

That said, suggesting someone start with The Way of Kings...depends on the person asking, but if someone's curious, I'm not gonna hand them a bookshelf-breaker straight off, unless I know they're a particularly voracious reader.

[Corlindale]

I really like Sanderson. I don't like all his stuff, but most of what I've read ranges from good to amazing.

I absolutely LOVE the Stormlight Archives. The setting, the characters, the magic, everything. In a world of grimdark, Game of Thrones-ish fantasy, I also found it really, really refreshing that Sanderson often writes genuine heroes, instead of a bunch of morally ambigious main characters. The third book is probably my most anticipated release right now.
They were the first Sanderson books I read, so I guess that did raise my expectations of the rest of his work.

I also really liked Elantris, but Mistborn sadly lost me at the beginning of the second book. Maybe I should give them another go, just to be able to read some of his recent Mistborn spinoffs.

I quite like his novellas too, although I don't see too many people discussing those. Perfect State was interesting and I really like the Legion books. I wish the latter were part of a bigger series, instead of just the two novellas.

Reckoners were ok, but some of the YA elements could be a little jarring (even though I normally enjoy a lot of YA stuff).

[Sallera]

I'd definitely recommend The Emperor's Soul over Mistborn for a starting point. It's probably the most beautiful thing he's written, it's short enough to be read in an evening, and as some others have mentioned, it avoids most of the pitfalls of his earlier work.

[Landis963]

I'd definitely recommend The Emperor's Soul over Mistborn for a starting point. It's probably the most beautiful thing he's written, it's short enough to be read in an evening, and as some others have mentioned, it avoids most of the pitfalls of his earlier work.

I can see arguments for and against both. Emperor's Soul's magic, soulstamping, is much more esoteric and less immediately grokkable than Allomancy or Feruchemy (from Mistborn), meaning that its uses can be easily mistaken for Deus Ex Machinae. On the flip side, Mistborn (especially book 2) displays Sanderson's writing growing pains loud and clear.

[Pronounceable]

The problem with magic is usually summarized in the classic question why didn't they fly to Mordor on eagles? Sure you can use fanfiction/expanded universe/whatever to address it or simply avoid asking that but question will still be there. Sanderson rightly wanted to avoid this and the result is his quasifamous law. It doesn't have to hold true for every fantasy story but that's how he decided to roll. There's plenty of other books and writers out there that don't obey this principle.


Sanderson's fantasy books are extremely grimdark actually. Elantrians' condition is hell on earth, Mistborn world is ruled by a preposterously oppressive empire (and take a look at the final bodycount), Stormlight has a literal apocalypse approaching, only Warbreaker doesn't have grimdark oozing out of cracks in the ground. But Sanderson doesn't rub your face into terrible, so the books end up being much lighter and good natured.

Also, Elantris is zombies and Warbreaker is vampires. Still waiting to see what he'll disguise werewolves as...


Emperor's Soul is the best thing he's ever written yet. If anyone's gonna read one Sanderson thing, it should be that. Also Mistborn 3 may make up for it but 2 is bad.

[Psyren]

I'm willing to give him a try based on his good job taking over WoT alone. We were drowning in a mire of excruciatingly detailed dress descriptions and the plot taking multiple books to go anywhere before he came onboard. I haven't had much time for new novels lately, but when I do, I'll definitely be trying some of his.

On the other hand, there's this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/09/30/sanderfuge) :smalltongue:

[Anteros]

I'm willing to give him a try based on his good job taking over WoT alone. We were drowning in a mire of excruciatingly detailed dress descriptions and the plot taking multiple books to go anywhere before he came onboard. I haven't had much time for new novels lately, but when I do, I'll definitely be trying some of his.

On the other hand, there's this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/09/30/sanderfuge) :smalltongue:

I think he benefited heavily from the fact that the series was ending anyway in this regard. The last book by Jordan was already much more tightly written than its predecessors, and was already closing up a lot of plot lines. I'm sure Jordan would have stretched it out more than Sanderson...but given the badly written mess AMoL ended up being, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

I do think he's great at building magic systems and worlds though. If you had him designing settings and then passing them off to someone who is actually a good author you could get some really fantastic stuff.

[lord_khaine]

I do greatly love Sanderson myself, to start with i think he is one of the most versatile writers i have read, and the one i would personally rate as the currently greatest fantasy author.

As people have already mentioned, then he is to start with really original with a lot of his work, and he manages some really surprising plot twists by using peoples expectations of regular fantasy tropes.


Like in the Rithmatisk where after all the buildup with the main character newer having entered the ritual to get the special power, and then does it in the middel of the book, only to fail all the same?
That really left be stunned just from how unhead of it were.

Or for that matter the ending in Words of Radiance, where its revealed how the female main characters mentor were still alive? That certainly caught me by surprise as well, despite Sanderson having given us all the relevant clues to figure it out.

[Dragonus45]

I do greatly love Sanderson myself, to start with i think he is one of the most versatile writers i have read, and the one i would personally rate as the currently greatest fantasy author.

As people have already mentioned, then he is to start with really original with a lot of his work, and he manages some really surprising plot twists by using peoples expectations of regular fantasy tropes.


Like in the Rithmatisk where after all the buildup with the main character newer having entered the ritual to get the special power, and then does it in the middel of the book, only to fail all the same?
That really left be stunned just from how unhead of it were.

Or for that matter the ending in Words of Radiance, where its revealed how the female main characters mentor were still alive? That certainly caught me by surprise as well, despite Sanderson having given us all the relevant clues to figure it out.



Also in Rihtmatist the generically so evil he had to be secretly good teacher ACTUALLY being evil and posesed caught me by surprise.

As for Jasnah after the male main character fell from the top of a tower and got back up a couple minutes later I started to realize there was no way a simple knife in the heart was going to kill anyone who was a knight radiant.

[Douglas]

As for Jasnah after the male main character fell from the top of a tower and got back up a couple minutes later I started to realize there was no way a simple knife in the heart was going to kill anyone who was a knight radiant.
Unless the Knight is out of Stormlight, and it wasn't obvious to me that Jasnah had Stormlight ready to go. I probably would have realized it if I'd thought about it in detail, but it wasn't obvious without that. It makes perfect sense in hindsight, but still surprised me in the moment.

[JoshL]

My 2 cents. Like a lot of other folks, I was introduced through WoT. I was so happy the series was finished, and the resolution of plots I'd been waiting half my life for was thrilling and satisfying. I loved the very end. But his prose was clumsy and awkward. I can forgive his not really getting certain characters, because not only were they all VERY developed complex characters, a lot of the main characters had spent the past few books changing (finally growing up a little, really). So they were in a bit of flux, and had Jordan finished the series, they wouldn't have read the same way they did in the books before. But his use of language, painfully heavy handed foreshadowing (something Jordan was pretty good at, with a few notable exceptions) and a bit of a jumble knowing when things happened in relation to others (again, something I never was caught off guard with the rest of the series), I thought him a servicable, but not necessarily good writer.

Then I read Way of Kings. Or rather, the sourcebook to the RPG mechanics he ham-handedly crammed a plot into :smallwink: Okay, I'm exaggurating for comic effect, but the opening sequence was so mechanical it just fell short of actually rolling dex saves. The world was interesting, but felt a little contrived. By which I mean, it felt like the world was written to best show off abilities of the charcters, rather than the abilities having grown out of the world that was. Again, use of language was not really his strong suit, but it was entertaining enough for me to get through. If I saw one of his books used, I'd probably grab it, but I wasn't in a big rush to read any of them. I feel the same way about Jim Butcher; I'll grab his books if they're cheap, have fun with them, but I don't necessarily think they're good (I recognize around here, that's a minority opinion for both authors). I also grant that I should probably read more of both, because at the end of the day, I do love fantasy more than most things!

[Kd7sov]

Personally, I recommend starting with Warbreaker, on the grounds that - while it's not his best work - it's available at absolutely no cost (http://brandonsanderson.com/warbreaker-introduction/).

On the other hand, you might not want to start with the Reckoners books; while there are people on each side of the question, those who think they're weaker than usual for him seem to be more common, and Firefight (the second) was so far the only of his books where I've correctly predicted major plot points on a first (unspoiled) reading.

I got about two thirds of the nature of Epic weaknesses - my working theory was "something they felt really strongly about before Epicing", rather than specifically fear - and that Megan would revive and bail David out of trouble (though which trouble I wasn't sure - I didn't register Prof gifting to him again, and when he started healing from Obliteration I wondered whether I'd missed a mention of dawn coming).

[Kittenwolf]

I might as well throw my two copper in here too :)

Just focusing on his works rather than WoT:

Mistborn: Loved the first book (woohoo for more action girls), but felt #2 & #3 fell way short of the first. #3 was better I'll admit, but.. yeah, neither of those two are my favorites.
And gods, the heavy handed "Oh look, you have an awesomely powerful female protagonist so of course we have to have a MAN suddenly become vastly more powerful at it than she is, because gender stereotypes."

Alloy of Law & Series: Wild West Mistborn, with some hilarious nods to the Mistborn series. Thoroughly enjoyed, and I think much better paced than the original

Elantris: I really enjoyed this one too, and gods.. the horror!
Apparently it's about to be re-released as well to bring it better into the Cosmere in general.

Warbreaker: Eh, this one I just.. really didn't enjoy. And I'm not entirely sure why

Reckoners: Predictable as all hell but lots of fun

Way of Kings: Freaking amazing, and I must agree, it's very clear how much he's improved as a writer over something like Mistborn.

Brandon's forte really is in strong world building and unique magic systems. Heck, some of his stuff (like WoK) is well worth reading just for the world building pointers if you're considering creating one of your own.

[Douglas]

And gods, the heavy handed "Oh look, you have an awesomely powerful female protagonist so of course we have to have a MAN suddenly become vastly more powerful at it than she is, because gender stereotypes."
More powerful, yes. More skilled and competent at what she does, not even close. When you need politicking or raw power (taking over Koloss, mostly), get Elend. When you need to kick some ass, get Vin. There's a reason Vin is always the one getting sent into fight missions even after Elend becomes a Mistborn, and it has nothing to do with Elend being too valuable to risk.

[lord_khaine]

Unless the Knight is out of Stormlight, and it wasn't obvious to me that Jasnah had Stormlight ready to go. I probably would have realized it if I'd thought about it in detail, but it wasn't obvious without that. It makes perfect sense in hindsight, but still surprised me in the moment.

Yeah, that is one of the main reasons for why i love his writing, a lot of the plot twists makes perfect sense and have been hinted at in different ways, but generally takes you completely by surprise all the same.
Like in Steelheart where the female love interest is confirmed dead with a found corpse.



Kinda surprised noone has mentioned his Alcatraz serie yet though, by far the most light hearted and funny of his books.

[Kd7sov]

Elantris: I really enjoyed this one too, and gods.. the horror!
Apparently it's about to be re-released as well to bring it better into the Cosmere in general.

Less "about to" than "recently"; the official date was the same as for Shadows of Self, although for some reason my local B&N didn't get it in until a few days later. (Also, I haven't actually noticed any changes to the story yet, although there's still a considerable portion of it to go.)

[LudicSavant]

I simply loved The Way of Kings.

[Landis963]

More powerful, yes. More skilled and competent at what she does, not even close. When you need politicking or raw power (taking over Koloss, mostly), get Elend. When you need to kick some ass, get Vin. There's a reason Vin is always the one getting sent into fight missions even after Elend becomes a Mistborn, and it has nothing to do with Elend being too valuable to risk.

I think Neo's referring to Sazed becoming a double-Shard, which does seem problematic in that light. However, it is mitigated by a couple things - Sazed only barely thinks of himself as a "him" anymore (which was essential to the prophecy) and he could only take the power because Vin did all the dirty work.

[Kittenwolf]

More powerful, yes. More skilled and competent at what she does, not even close. When you need politicking or raw power (taking over Koloss, mostly), get Elend. When you need to kick some ass, get Vin. There's a reason Vin is always the one getting sent into fight missions even after Elend becomes a Mistborn, and it has nothing to do with Elend being too valuable to risk.


I think Neo's referring to Sazed becoming a double-Shard, which does seem problematic in that light. However, it is mitigated by a couple things - Sazed only barely thinks of himself as a "him" anymore (which was essential to the prophecy) and he could only take the power because Vin did all the dirty work.


Actually, the Sazed thing I didn't have an issue with, though it felt a tad on the clumsy side, since it felt to me more like Sazed was going "Well I can't be a real man if I'm a eunuch" rather than actually considering himself as a third or non gender.

On the skill etc thing with Vin. Yes, that's true, but it's SUCH a cop out "Oh look, we're not replacing her, honest, she's got the skill and he's just got raw power, which is fine right, since men are usually stronger than women?". It just infuriated me to no end.

[danzibr]

My 2 cents. Like a lot of other folks, I was introduced through WoT. I was so happy the series was finished, and the resolution of plots I'd been waiting half my life for was thrilling and satisfying. I loved the very end. But his prose was clumsy and awkward. I can forgive his not really getting certain characters, because not only were they all VERY developed complex characters, a lot of the main characters had spent the past few books changing (finally growing up a little, really). So they were in a bit of flux, and had Jordan finished the series, they wouldn't have read the same way they did in the books before. But his use of language, painfully heavy handed foreshadowing (something Jordan was pretty good at, with a few notable exceptions) and a bit of a jumble knowing when things happened in relation to others (again, something I never was caught off guard with the rest of the series), I thought him a servicable, but not necessarily good writer.

Then I read Way of Kings. Or rather, the sourcebook to the RPG mechanics he ham-handedly crammed a plot into :smallwink: Okay, I'm exaggurating for comic effect, but the opening sequence was so mechanical it just fell short of actually rolling dex saves. The world was interesting, but felt a little contrived. By which I mean, it felt like the world was written to best show off abilities of the charcters, rather than the abilities having grown out of the world that was. Again, use of language was not really his strong suit, but it was entertaining enough for me to get through. If I saw one of his books used, I'd probably grab it, but I wasn't in a big rush to read any of them. I feel the same way about Jim Butcher; I'll grab his books if they're cheap, have fun with them, but I don't necessarily think they're good (I recognize around here, that's a minority opinion for both authors). I also grant that I should probably read more of both, because at the end of the day, I do love fantasy more than most things!
Enlightening. In particular, the first paragraph puts into words my feelings about WoT.

Given as we seemingly have similar opinions, I'll take the second paragraph to heart.

[Saph]

On the skill etc thing with Vin. Yes, that's true, but it's SUCH a cop out "Oh look, we're not replacing her, honest, she's got the skill and he's just got raw power, which is fine right, since men are usually stronger than women?". It just infuriated me to no end.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree strongly here. The biggest problem with the Mistborn in the series, IMO, were that they were so stupidly overpowered that it became almost impossible to challenge them with anything except an even more powerful magic user. I remember reading several scenes with Vin/Kelsier/whoever massacring dozens of guards and soldiers – the scenes were probably supposed to be 'cool', but to me it came across more like mass murder. I absolutely did not want to see yet more scenes of Vin wading knee-high through blood and severed limbs just to prove how strong she was.

[Psyren]

I think he benefited heavily from the fact that the series was ending anyway in this regard. The last book by Jordan was already much more tightly written than its predecessors, and was already closing up a lot of plot lines. I'm sure Jordan would have stretched it out more than Sanderson...but given the badly written mess AMoL ended up being, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

I do think he's great at building magic systems and worlds though. If you had him designing settings and then passing them off to someone who is actually a good author you could get some really fantastic stuff.

Well, I see folks like Saph, Douglas and khaine vouching for him, so that's good enough for me. I'll definitely be giving his stuff a try when I have the free time.

I'm also mightily resisting the urge to read those spoiler boxes, so I'd probably better step out of this one.

[Rodin]

Yeah, I'm going to disagree strongly here. The biggest problem with the Mistborn in the series, IMO, were that they were so stupidly overpowered that it became almost impossible to challenge them with anything except an even more powerful magic user. I remember reading several scenes with Vin/Kelsier/whoever massacring dozens of guards and soldiers – the scenes were probably supposed to be 'cool', but to me it came across more like mass murder. I absolutely did not want to see yet more scenes of Vin wading knee-high through blood and severed limbs just to prove how strong she was.

Indeed. Them taking on loads of mooks wasn't particularly notable, although I did enjoy the fights against other Mistborn quite a bit because they're similarly powered and it becomes a race to most skillfully manipulate the magic system.

I actually found myself liking Alloy of Law much better, simply because nobody IS a Mistborn and the powers the main characters have aren't particularly powerful by the standards of the universe. This means that they're actually running on skill rather than simply abusing overpoweredness.

[Douglas]

Actually, the Sazed thing I didn't have an issue with, though it felt a tad on the clumsy side, since it felt to me more like Sazed was going "Well I can't be a real man if I'm a eunuch" rather than actually considering himself as a third or non gender.

On the skill etc thing with Vin. Yes, that's true, but it's SUCH a cop out "Oh look, we're not replacing her, honest, she's got the skill and he's just got raw power, which is fine right, since men are usually stronger than women?". It just infuriated me to no end.


Elend's power just sort of existed without really doing anything for most of the book. I considered it more a vehicle for explaining how Rashek brought strong Allomancy into the world than anything else. Elend and Vin fight an Inquisitor together at the beginning of the book, and then he almost doesn't use his Mistborn abilities at all until the climax, at which point Vin has ascended to godhood so all his power just makes him her chief minion.


Yeah, I'm going to disagree strongly here. The biggest problem with the Mistborn in the series, IMO, were that they were so stupidly overpowered that it became almost impossible to challenge them with anything except an even more powerful magic user. I remember reading several scenes with Vin/Kelsier/whoever massacring dozens of guards and soldiers – the scenes were probably supposed to be 'cool', but to me it came across more like mass murder. I absolutely did not want to see yet more scenes of Vin wading knee-high through blood and severed limbs just to prove how strong she was.
It's been a while since the last time I reread the books, but as I recall Brandon did eventually stop showing that and just take it as given that Vin vs mooks = dead mooks. In particular I'm remembering when Vin and that crazy Mistborn (I forget his name) who served Straff got together and slaughtered their way through some keep; as I recall it cut from Vin agreeing to it to Vin reflecting on it in the aftermath, essentially.

[Lethologica]

Yeah, I'm going to disagree strongly here. The biggest problem with the Mistborn in the series, IMO, were that they were so stupidly overpowered that it became almost impossible to challenge them with anything except an even more powerful magic user. I remember reading several scenes with Vin/Kelsier/whoever massacring dozens of guards and soldiers – the scenes were probably supposed to be 'cool', but to me it came across more like mass murder. I absolutely did not want to see yet more scenes of Vin wading knee-high through blood and severed limbs just to prove how strong she was.
This perspective approaches the issues I had with the Mistborn trilogy--pretty much everything of consequence is related to the magic system, which made everything else matter less, and in particular made scenes where magic and non-magic conflict into foregone conclusions.

By the end it gets to the point where the only way Sanderson can have the characters do anything of significance is to have them become the magic system.

[The New Bruceski]

I'm also mightily resisting the urge to read those spoiler boxes, so I'd probably better step out of this one.

It's the hazard of these sorts of threads. People try to keep them newbie-friendly as intended, but then one one-off comment leads into a one-off reply and things just snowball. I think the main pros/cons of Sanderson have been covered by now, so you're not missing anything except the nitpicks.

[Dragonus45]

I might as well throw my two copper in here too :)

Just focusing on his works rather than WoT:

Mistborn: Loved the first book (woohoo for more action girls), but felt #2 & #3 fell way short of the first. #3 was better I'll admit, but.. yeah, neither of those two are my favorites.
And gods, the heavy handed "Oh look, you have an awesomely powerful female protagonist so of course we have to have a MAN suddenly become vastly more powerful at it than she is, because gender stereotypes."


Last I checked Vin was pretty much still the unstoppalbe engine of destruction and pain no one could match, and eventually a god for a brief bit. When did a man become stronger than her.

[Lethologica]

Elend's Mistborn powers are stronger than Vin's inherited Mistborn powers because he directly ingests the power of Preservation, just as the Lord Ruler and other first-generation Mistborn did, at the Well of Ascension. However, Vin is ultimately stronger because she can absorb the mists, i.e. Preservation, as long as she isn't wearing her earring, whereas other Mistborn apparently can't. This is what allows Vin to become Preservation.

[Pronounceable]

pretty much everything of consequence is related to the magic system, which made everything else matter less, and in particular made scenes where magic and non-magic conflict into foregone conclusions.
Now this is a complaint I can agree with. It didn't bother me but it's certainly a problem, the "Jedi Problem" to be exact, and it's in no way a unique shortcoming of Sanderson. Luckily, it's fixed for future Mistborn books but other series might start suffering it at some point, especially Stormlight.
Vin defeating a bunch of other magic dudes is cool. She waded through sea of blood only once and it took a lot of underhanded jackassery from Zane. The battlefields don't count as it's war and if she wasn't Ramboing it up, she'd have to send her soldiers to die in droves to accomplish the same thing.
Kelsier, however, was totally a mass murderer and loved every second of it, so long as targets worked for the Empire.

Also, the wanton magic slaughter needed to be shown at some point to justify Lord Ruler's reign. Vin and Sazed's magical rampages prove that yes, LR really could solo the entire world if he had to. Without this proof, one guy singlehandedly conquering the world seems silly.

OTOH all this ties right back into the Jedi Problem and can be objected to as a whole, but not in parts.

As for Elend; yes, his power is straight from the source and more than Vin's but no, he's never anything more than Vin's appendage in the grand scheme of things. Any random guy Vin fell for could've been in his place and not much would change.
In unrelated tangents, WoT's first couple books were full of unlikable douchebags that I didn't care in the least and made me ragequit in apathy. For all his skill and talent, Jordan utterly failed to engage me. So did Martin. Whereas Sanderson, despite his comparatively low talents, never managed to induce absolute apathy for even his flattest main characters. So I don't get these complaints about "skill" at all. Skill is just a bonus, a neat sauce on the meat and potato. All the sauce in the world won't be palatable without something for it to be put on.

[Knaight]

I'd consider Sanderson an okay writer, but there are some pitfalls he falls into pretty routinely. The biggest of these is where he just starts rambling on and on about some setting detail (usually the magic system) long past the point of interest; if you find these details interesting for their own sake that pretty much goes away. The other big one is that as series go on they tend to get more unfocused, and characterization often fades a bit in favor of deeds of might. Still, it's worth giving Sanderson a shot at something other than continuing Jordan's work, as a lot of Sanderson's strengths really can't show up in Wheel of Time.

[Lethologica]

Now this is a complaint I can agree with. It didn't bother me but it's certainly a problem, the "Jedi Problem" to be exact, and it's in no way a unique shortcoming of Sanderson. Luckily, it's fixed for future Mistborn books but other series might start suffering it at some point, especially Stormlight.
Vin defeating a bunch of other magic dudes is cool. She waded through sea of blood only once and it took a lot of underhanded jackassery from Zane. The battlefields don't count as it's war and if she wasn't Ramboing it up, she'd have to send her soldiers to die in droves to accomplish the same thing.
Kelsier, however, was totally a mass murderer and loved every second of it, so long as targets worked for the Empire.

Also, the wanton magic slaughter needed to be shown at some point to justify Lord Ruler's reign. Vin and Sazed's magical rampages prove that yes, LR really could solo the entire world if he had to. Without this proof, one guy singlehandedly conquering the world seems silly.

OTOH all this ties right back into the Jedi Problem and can be objected to as a whole, but not in parts.

As for Elend; yes, his power is straight from the source and more than Vin's but no, he's never anything more than Vin's appendage in the grand scheme of things. Any random guy Vin fell for could've been in his place and not much would change.
I'm not quite sure how you're characterizing the Jedi problem. I'm having trouble envisioning a version of what bothered me about Mistborn that's applicable to the original SW trilogy, for example. Is this an EU thing? (Also, in case it needs clarifying: Vin being able to mow through N non-Mistborns wasn't a huge issue for me, it just happens to relate to the things that were.)

[Pronounceable]

I'm not quite sure how you're characterizing the Jedi problem.
It's the basic go Force or go home mentality that first cropped up in EU and was later exacerbated by Lucas in the ****ty trilogy. Mistborn (or other Sanderson stuff) isn't nearly that bad (so far) but you can see the traces of magic or gtfo sentiment in every big or little thing being related to some quirk of some magic. Hopefully he's gonna figure it out and not let it grow.

If you read/listen to his various talks, he sometimes mentions and warns against the worldbuilder's disease, a controllable urge to get lost in your own mind in order to show off more of your awesome cool rad imaginary world. From what I hear (but not witness firsthand), Jordan suffered an extreme version of it. Sanderson tries to avoid that and usually succeeds at not describing the clothes/trees for 3 pages straight, but falls prey to a related version of that disease. Maybe that should be called player's handbook disease.

[Maethirion]

Just to chip in my 2c as a Sanderson fan:

I think many of the detractors have fair points. I have definitely read books with far better written prose. I also understand the point about the descriptions going on just a little bit too long, and it revolving around the magic systems/worldbuilding.

That said, I really enjoy them, and devour each one of his books as they come out - the plotting is generally good, I often don't see everything coming, which is a nice change, and as someone who really enjoys well developed worlds and magic systems, I enjoy the sections which are a bit expository. Although I do accept that not everyone will enjoy those as much.

Most importantly, as someone pointed out a few posts above, I don't think I've ever been apathetic about his characters - they all make me feel something, and that's something I really value.

So is he the best writer in the world? No. Is he still one of my favourite authors? Absolutely. I'd definitely recommend at least giving him a go.

I'd probably also recommend starting with The Emperor's Soul. It's a nice short book, but packs a lot into it.

[Ibrinar]

I do greatly love Sanderson myself, to start with i think he is one of the most versatile writers i have read, and the one i would personally rate as the currently greatest fantasy author.

As people have already mentioned, then he is to start with really original with a lot of his work, and he manages some really surprising plot twists by using peoples expectations of regular fantasy tropes.


Like in the Rithmatisk where after all the buildup with the main character newer having entered the ritual to get the special power, and then does it in the middel of the book, only to fail all the same?
That really left be stunned just from how unhead of it were.

Or for that matter the ending in Words of Radiance, where its revealed how the female main characters mentor were still alive? That certainly caught me by surprise as well, despite Sanderson having given us all the relevant clues to figure it out.



I noticed that her body had disappeared and the attackers moving it didn't really make sense so I expected her to be alive. But it took so long for her to turn up that I started to have doubts.

[Psyren]

As someone for whom the "Jedi Problem" is a feature rather than a bug, that just makes me want to read Sanderson's stuff even more. But then, I'm a proponent of folks like Feist, Stasheff and Anthony, where "magic or gtfo" is pretty much the point :smallbiggrin:

This has flavored my perception of RPGs as well, D&D in particular.

[Sapphire Guard]

My impression of Sanderson in General: Good hearted and good writing, a bit too self aware about subverting tropes in the 'look, I subverted a trope' way.

Did good work in Wheel of Time, Way of Kings I'm fairly neutral towards despite the first scene being great. his contribution to Dangerous Women was one of the best entries in the collection.

My one problem with Mistborn was that There didn't seem to be enough Mistborn. The most powerful house in an Empire of millions had access to only two, and hardly anyone else seemed to have any. Many of Elend's political rivals didn't have any. If they were so rare, it seems unlikely their powers would be so well understood, they'd be more like myths, and Elend would be able to cow many of his rivals into submission just by saying 'I have a Mistborn'. But the world is set up like Mistborn are rare but known in the noble class, they have a specific cloak that distinguishes them that doesn't seem hard to find, it's not that difficult to get access to those bottles of diluted metal they need (except for atium), there are roads only they can use connecting the major cities. It makes the worldbuilding start to creak a bit.

[Landis963]

My one problem with Mistborn was that There didn't seem to be enough Mistborn. The most powerful house in an Empire of millions had access to only two, and hardly anyone else seemed to have any. Many of Elend's political rivals didn't have any. If they were so rare, it seems unlikely their powers would be so well understood, they'd be more like myths, and Elend would be able to cow many of his rivals into submission just by saying 'I have a Mistborn'. But the world is set up like Mistborn are rare but known in the noble class, they have a specific cloak that distinguishes them that doesn't seem hard to find, it's not that difficult to get access to those bottles of diluted metal they need (except for atium), there are roads only they can use connecting the major cities. It makes the worldbuilding start to creak a bit.

In order:

The math is a little wonky (what percentage of the population exactly are Mistborn?), especially when you consider Preservation's ploy with the mists in Hero of Ages, but essentially Allomancers were status symbols, and Mistborn were basically more so (And to flaunt said status symbol, they'd get a special cloak as a badge of office). Likewise, Allomantic powers (at least the Physical and Mental quadrants) were pretty well understood, and the only differentiation from Snapping as an Allomancer and Snapping as a Mistborn are that the Mistborn get all the powers, so those metal vials serve the Allomancer market just as well as they do the Mistborn market. Elend, bless his naive heart, didn't want to resort to threats of assassination by Mistborn, and IIRC only did so when it became obvious that his father wouldn't cooperate. And lastly, those roads can be used by any Coinshot, they just need to juggle the vectors right.

[Dhavaer]

My one problem with Mistborn was that There didn't seem to be enough Mistborn. The most powerful house in an Empire of millions had access to only two, and hardly anyone else seemed to have any. Many of Elend's political rivals didn't have any. If they were so rare, it seems unlikely their powers would be so well understood, they'd be more like myths, and Elend would be able to cow many of his rivals into submission just by saying 'I have a Mistborn'. But the world is set up like Mistborn are rare but known in the noble class, they have a specific cloak that distinguishes them that doesn't seem hard to find, it's not that difficult to get access to those bottles of diluted metal they need (except for atium), there are roads only they can use connecting the major cities. It makes the worldbuilding start to creak a bit.

I'm pretty sure it's noted that allomancy in general is declining. Mistborn are well known because there were a lot more of them at one time, but the original dose of Lerasium that created them was diluted over the centuries. This is even more noticeable in the new series where there are no mistborn or feruchemists, only mistings and ferrings.