A.o.O.bliteration

[Rubik]

I think I may have overdone my potential for attacks of opportunity.

I have: 15' natural reach, dungeoncrasher fighter, a level in monk for Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, Karmic Strike, Standstill, Knock Down, Improved Trip, Knockback, and Snap Kick.

Let's say someone provokes an AoO in my threatened area (within 15'; more, if I use an effect that increases my size). I can smack them for a Standstill (if they're moving), accompanied by a Snap Kick for a Knock Down, which activates an Improved Trip attack, leading to another Snap Kick, which I can use with a Knockback attack, either smacking someone far away and into an obstacle or into the ground, dealing a ridiculous amount of damage.

And that's not even including my Power Attack and Shock Trooper feats.

That's what happens if someone attacks me and misses. I can do twice as much if they hit. I can also add in some feats which increase the number of reasons I can make AoOs on my enemies.

Do I have this right, or am I off somewhere? Is there anything I can do to make this even more fun?

[AmberVael]

If there's a weak point in it, its in the interaction between Improved Trip and Knock-Down.


Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.

If a DM is feeling rather nitpicky or obstinate, they might declare that improved trip fails to grant you a melee attack after Knock-Down, because you didn't use an attack for a trip attempt.
I'm not saying I promote this reading, mind, just that its something that could come up.


I guess the other thing you could question is if you get more than one attack from Snap Kick, but I think thats simply a matter of it having vague wording. But the question remains- why should you get multiple snap kicks on a single attack of opportunity, when you don't get more than one snap kick on a full attack? I can trip attack on full attacks too, and that doesn't seem it would add on additional kicks. The implication seems to be 'one snap kick per action used on attacking,' but unfortunately the wording leaves some area for questioning.


Anyway.

The only thing that comes to mind for me is the Rapid Counter maneuver in Diamond Mind, which basically lets you take an additional attack against someone provoking an AoO as an immediate action. Or two attacks with snap kick. I'm not sure how you'd fit it in your build though.

[Sayt]

If you took TWF and Double Hit and used... I think it's called either the Duom or Elven Branched Spear in 3.5? It's a spear that lets you attack adjacent enemies at a minor penalty while still having reach.

If anyone is foolish to get into adjacency to you, you'd get an extra attack, and perhaps an extra snap kick.


The build makes me think of a reach version of Jack B. Quick. Fun little punishment chain you've got going.

[BowStreetRunner]

In order to build an effective AoO character you need to focus on three things.

Increasing the number of situations where an opponent provokes an Attack of Opportunity.
Increasing the number of Attacks of Opportunity you can deliver in a round.
Increasing the damage and other negative effects you inflict when dealing Attacks of Opportunity.

For the first you have reach and Robilar's gambit. But there are lots of ways to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. What are you going to do about spellcasters? Mageslayer helps keep them from casting defensively. What about 5-foot steps, withdrawal and tumbling? The Thicket of Blades stance would help make sure any movement provokes an AoO.

For the second you have Combat Reflexes and I would assume a high Dexterity. The Rapid Counter maneuver would be another option.

For the third I think you have plenty of options already.

[Aleolus]

There is a stance in the White Raven discipline, iirc, which makes it to where anytime an enemy threatens you but chooses to attack anyone else they provoke an AoO. Don't remember what its called, but I think its a pretty low level

[BowStreetRunner]

There is a stance in the White Raven discipline, iirc, which makes it to where anytime an enemy threatens you but chooses to attack anyone else they provoke an AoO. Don't remember what its called, but I think its a pretty low level

It's not a White Raven stance. It's Defensive Rebuke (a Devoted Spirit Boost). Each enemy you strike provokes an attack of opportunity if they attack anyone else during the following round.

[Snowbluff]

Can you sunder on an AoO? Because you can get a free attack when you sunder something with Combat Brute. :smalltongue:

[Rubik]

How about combining with the Sun School feat to attack after a teleportation? Use swordsage to grab a standard, move, and swift action teleport, and a level of abrupt jaunt conjuror will let you teleport and attack as an immediate action. Or you could buy that shadow cloak in Drow of the Underdark for the same basic immediate action teleport.

Too bad Sun School specifies "adjacent" teleportation, because having 30' reach would make for a great way for an immediate action surprise interrupt, especially with the combo outlined above.


Can you sunder on an AoO? Because you can get a free attack when you sunder something with Combat Brute. :smalltongue:You can. And the build has Vestiphobia as a flaw and doesn't have much to do with WBL, so it wouldn't be too big of a loss...at least for him. However, sundering is generally a bad idea unless it's against something the party can't sell or use anyway, such as a holy symbol or spell component pouch.

[Twurps]

Have you taken the 'decisive strike' ACF from PHII for your monk level?
As a full round action, you get to make 1 attack, which deals double damage, as does every other attack you make in that round.
It trades your flurry of misses, which you don't really need anyway.

[Rubik]

Have you taken the 'decisive strike' ACF from PHII for your monk level?
As a full round action, you get to make 1 attack, which deals double damage, as does every other attack you make in that round.
It trades your flurry of misses, which you don't really need anyway.Chaotic alignment, so chaos monk.

Can you replace flailing strike with decisive strike?

Also, it's not just an AoO build. There are so many other things that can be done with a full round action it's nuts.

For instance, it's also a teleport-attack build using Sun School, swordsage, and abrupt jaunt conjuror to get swift, move, and immediate action teleporting attacks to pull a Freeza. (https://youtu.be/FxChP7oux1E?t=432)

[Snowbluff]

You can. And the build has Vestiphobia as a flaw and doesn't have much to do with WBL, so it wouldn't be too big of a loss...at least for him. However, sundering is generally a bad idea unless it's against something the party can't sell or use anyway, such as a holy symbol or spell component pouch.

Yeah, it can expensive, but in my experience most npcs carry crap weapons that just weigh you down. Weapons (especially non magical ones) are not even that hard to break. :p

[Troacctid]

Stand Still seems a little redundant when you have Knockback and Knock Down. Maybe swap it out for Mage Slayer or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Ritiik).

[Rubik]

Stand Still seems a little redundant when you have Knockback and Knock Down. Maybe swap it out for Mage Slayer or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Ritiik).I think you might be right about Stand Still.

Normally, Mage Slayer and the ritiik weapon would be good ideas, but not on this character. He's a full caster (tried to cover every possible base on one character with lots of optimization and zero gestalt) and is optimizing the hell out of unarmed strikes to do everything for him -- including being a tripping/disarming weapon, attacking with reach and adjacent, and even attacking as a ranged weapon. Ritiiks are nifty, though.

[OldTrees1]

What about action economy debuffs (Daze, Stun, Stagger) per hit?

[Rubik]

What about action economy debuffs (Daze, Stun, Stagger) per hit?Stunning Fist is always an option, and it's one I should look into. Got any that scale with level? There are plenty of weapon enhancements out there, but almost none of them scale, and a DC 12/14/15 (with hardly any others going higher than those) is trivial for enemies to overcome at higher levels.

[Troacctid]

Can you finagle a creature type change to become a dragon and qualify for epic feats? If so, Spellcasting Harrier is probably even better than Mage Slayer anyway.

Improved Disarm also gets better if you're optimizing unarmed strikes, because it lets you just straight-up steal things from people.

[OldTrees1]

Stunning Fist is always an option, and it's one I should look into. Got any that scale with level? There are plenty of weapon enhancements out there, but almost none of the scale, and a DC 12/14/15 (with hardly any others going higher than those) is trivial for enemies to overcome at higher levels.

Staggering Strike(Stagger) and Boomerang Daze(Daze) scale with damage
Three Mountains(Nausea) and Dire Flail Smash(Daze) scale with Str and HD

Of those options Staggering Strike sounds ideal (just get sneak attack and a minor cloak of displacement)

[Malimar]

Dragon Compendium has Riposte, which pairs nicely with Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike.


If you use Combat Expertise to increase your Armor Class, the first opponent to attack and miss you for that round provokes an attack of opportunity from you.

[Snowbluff]

Staggering Strike(Stagger) and Boomerang Daze(Daze) scale with damage
Three Mountains(Nausea) and Dire Flail Smash(Daze) scale with Str and HD

Of those options Staggering Strike sounds ideal (just get sneak attack and a minor cloak of displacement)

I prefer boomerang daze, since it's a stronger effect and is harder to be immune to. The problem is that you need a bommerang.

[Rubik]

How about Visceral Surge?

Visceral Surge [psionic] (Hyperconscious p45) Expend your focus to cow a foe struck by weapon automatically for 1 round (takes no actions, loses Dex to AC, all attacks made against it are made at a +2 bonus); it must make a Will save on subsequent rounds or remain cowed (Will DC 5+damage dealt); it can be used with weaponlike powers & spells.


I prefer boomerang daze, since it's a stronger effect and is harder to be immune to. The problem is that you need a boomerang.Well, you need to be proficient in a boomerang. But what you NEED is an aptitude weapon.

Speaking of, an aptitude unarmed strike (hurling your body, a la Falcon Punch) with the Throw Anything, Boomerang Daze, and Boomerang Ricochet feats?

[Snowbluff]

Well, you need to be proficient in a boomerang. But what you NEED is an aptitude weapon.

True. Sjlver's signature build is using an aptitude falchion with Divine Surge. I'm having war flashbacks from him trying to stunlock everyone to death in our tournaments.

It's so cheesy and powerful, I would say to just not do it. :smalleek:

[Rubik]

Would ranks in Knowledge (Local) count for the regional qualifications of Battle Jump?

Gods, I hate feat and PrC prereqs that have nothing whatsoever to do with the thing's effect. I want to build MY character, not someone else's idea of what my character should be, and I don't want to have to waste build resources on pointless wastes of space.

[Snowbluff]

Would ranks in Knowledge (Local) count for the regional qualifications of Battle Jump?

It's arguable. On one hand, the old 3e source of the [Regional] Feats had a stipulation to allow it, but it wasn't added in the new 3.5 version of the feat rules. So otherwise it's grandfathered in or it's not a part of the rule because it wasn't reprinted. :smalltongue:

[Rubik]

You know, one could get some serious reach with a combination of reach extenders (Extended Reach, Willing Deformity, and Inhuman Reach), Improved Unarmed Strike for adjacent, a gauntlet with extending to make it a reach weapon, and an extending guisarme for reach+. And you'd threaten the entire area.

It gets even better with Large or larger size.

An aptitude guisarme with the Long Reach feat could extend that even further.


It's arguable. On one hand, the old 3e source of the [Regional] Feats had a stipulation to allow it, but it wasn't added in the new 3.5 version of the feat rules. So otherwise it's grandfathered in or it's not a part of the rule because it wasn't reprinted. :smalltongue:So, we're going with, "Yes, no, and maybe."

[Petrocorus]

I have: 15' natural reach, dungeoncrasher fighter, a level in monk for Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, Karmic Strike, Standstill, Knock Down, Improved Trip, Knockback, and Snap Kick.


What method did you use to get the natural reach?

[Rubik]

What method did you use to get the natural reach?Extended Reach and Inhuman Reach. 5' (normal) + 5' (Extended Reach) + 5' (Inhuman Reach). The character has Aberration Blood (Tail) and Improved Unarmed Strike, so he can use his tail to smack enemies with, which qualifies him for Extended Reach, and Aberration Blood qualifies him for Inhuman Reach.

[Rubik]

I got to wondering. If you had dungeoncrasher, Knockback, Power Attack, and Improved Whirlwind Attack (make a whirlwind attack followed by a full attack action) could you start your turn surrounded by trees, sunder them all with a greatsword whirlwind Power Attack, and then smack all the trees you just chopped down, using them as Knockback ammunition to fire at an enemy with your full attack followup?

[OldTrees1]

I got to wondering. If you had dungeoncrasher, Knockback, Power Attack, and Improved Whirlwind Attack (make a whirlwind attack followed by a full attack action) could you start your turn surrounded by trees, sunder them all with a greatsword whirlwind Power Attack, and then smack all the trees you just chopped down, using them as Knockback ammunition to fire at an enemy with your full attack followup?

Depends on if you have enough iterative attacks to hit each tree and if trees count as foes to be valid targets for knockback(I would rule they are and would use 0+1d20 as their opposed roll).

[Rubik]

Depends on if you have enough iterative attacks to hit each tree and if trees count as foes to be valid targets for knockback(I would rule they are and would use 0+1d20 as their opposed roll).Well, you are the tree expert...

[OldTrees1]

Well, you are the tree expert...

:smallbiggrin:

Obviously size modifiers would also be included. Is a tree with a 5ft diameter trunk a medium, or a large, or larger object?

What benefits can we get from bullrushing objects into people? I think shocktrooper will trip our target, but did WotC remember to make a way to do damage or will it be up to the DM to rule on it? Related, what size object is a caber and how much damage does it do(AFB)?

I am now picturing a Goliath CombatGolfer