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Brett Wong
2007-06-02, 05:44 AM
Hi, im playing a warforged right now and my DM and I ar having an argument, an assasin rolled a death attack on me witch is like a sneak attack right? so i roll light fortification with i suceed with a natural 20, my DM says i needed to roll my fort save 1st from the death attack (the same death attack witch i had sucseeded to save against sneak damage) i rolled again and failed do i die or do i make the save due to light fortification making the sneak damage negate?

Dark Tira
2007-06-02, 05:53 AM
According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) if the sneak attack fails to deal damage the death attack fails. So if your fortification works you shouldn't have to make a saving throw.

Zherog
2007-06-02, 06:47 AM
http://boards1.wizards.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Fortification armor is a percentage roll, not a d20 roll.

In my opinion... there is no "order" of rolling the two. You need to make both checks, and the results are applied individually. I'm basing this on the fact that (for example) a vorpal weapon still chops off your head even if you have heavy fort armor (according to a recent Sage Advice at least).

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-02, 07:01 AM
Tira has it right. Death Attack is based Sneak Attack. If Sneak Attack fails because of Light Fortification(which, like Zherog said, is a percentile roll) then the death attack is wasted.

Ikkitosen
2007-06-02, 07:09 AM
Sounds like they're using a d20 to simulate the percentile roll, which a lot of people do when using nice round percentile figures.

And I agree that if your fortification prevents the sneak attack then the death attack is likewise thwarted.

Driderman
2007-06-02, 07:26 AM
Sounds like they're using a d20 to simulate the percentile roll, which a lot of people do when using nice round percentile figures.

And I agree that if your fortification prevents the sneak attack then the death attack is likewise thwarted.

I concur, on both points.

Skyserpent
2007-06-02, 08:47 AM
Your DM loses.

AtomicKitKat
2007-06-02, 09:51 AM
Frankly, although the order is the other way around, I would always roll the Fortification % first. Lessens the number of rolls per game as well.

Immunities>Flat negation(Concealment, Fortification, %chance to ignore, etc.)>Attack Roll>Damage Roll.

Zherog
2007-06-04, 10:51 AM
I'll take this moment to point out a recent Sage Advice answer (I can get the Dragon Mag. issue number later, but it's not yet in the FAQ).

Andy ruled that heavy fortification does not negate the effects of a vorpal weapon, even though it entirely negates the critical hit.

this seems like the same situation to me. *shrug*

AtomicKitKat
2007-06-05, 06:05 AM
From the Assassin entry on d20srd.org:


If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice).

The issue here, of course, is whether the part about damage refers to just plain damage(weapon+Critical+Strength+Sneak Attack dice), or whether the "Sneak Attack Damage" portion of the damage must be greater than 0.

The Black Prince
2007-06-05, 06:11 AM
It says

If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice).

In this case the warforged takes normal damage but is not successfully sneak/death attacked, so the character is not killed/paralyzed.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-06-05, 07:22 AM
Andy ruled that heavy fortification does not negate the effects of a vorpal weapon, even though it entirely negates the critical hit.
The difference is that you are not required to deal a successful critical hit for the vorpal quality to work. This is why you can sever the head of a vampire (mentioned in the Vorpal weapon description) or other undead, even though such creatures are immune to critical hits. The outcome of the critical hit does not matter where the outcome of the vorpal strike is concerned. A vorpal strike simply does not require a critical hit.

However, a death attack only applies when one makes a sneak attack. If there is no sneak attack, then there is no death attack.


The issue here, of course, is whether the part about damage refers to just plain damage(weapon+Critical+Strength+Sneak Attack dice), or whether the "Sneak Attack Damage" portion of the damage must be greater than 0.
From the wording, I'd say it means the sneak attack portion of the damage could be negated via DR or similar methods and the death attack would work.

But fortification doesn't just negate the damage. It negates the strike's status as a sneak attack all together. It becomes, instead, a normal strike.