huge stone block on head; Damage?

[Yeril]

how much damage WOULD that slab of rock in 458 accualy do to him?

[nimby]

Enough to kill him, obviously. It's been weighted by Plot, so it's damage can't really be written down.

[Morty]

It's one of the "rock falls, everybody dies" situations. So damage is irrelevant.

[jindra34]

about 12d6...

[Ing]

I think my game used a rule that falling object damage was 1d dependent on size of object+1d6 per 10 feet capping at 10d6Xhardness

So that looks like a large sized thick rock and i'll guess the drop was over 10 feet or so 1d8+2d6X8

so estimated to be about 80 or so damage.

[BobTheDog]

For every 200 pounds of an object, it deals 1d6 damage for a 10-ft. fall, plus 1d6 for every 10 feet it falls.

Let's say the block weighs 400 pounds, and it fell 20 feet.

3d6

Not nearly enough to kill a character over 5th level, unless he was a wizard with VERY low Constitution.

The power of plot makes big damage, it does.

[mockingbyrd7]

For every 200 pounds of an object, it deals 1d6 damage for a 10-ft. fall, plus 1d6 for every 10 feet it falls.

Let's say the block weighs 400 pounds, and it fell 20 feet.

3d6

Not nearly enough to kill a character over 5th level, unless he was a wizard with VERY low Constitution.

The power of plot makes big damage, it does.

Yes, but hardness and mass makes a difference too. Would you take any damage if 400 pounds of teddy bears fell on you from 20 feet? No. Would you take damage if a 400 pound rock falls on you from 20 feet? YES.

[CardinalFang]

Yes, but hardness and mass makes a difference too. Would you take any damage if 400 pounds of teddy bears fell on you from 20 feet? No. Would you take damage if a 400 pound rock falls on you from 20 feet? YES.

In the interest of nitpicking, you WOULD take damage from 400 pounds of teddy bears; it's still 400 pounds. You just wouldn't suffer the same amount of damage, mainly because 400 pounds of teddy bears is A) soft, and B) probably around 400 separate bears. A single 400-pound bear could easily break your arm or a couple of ribs. But it would be super cute. :smalltongue:

[BobTheDog]

Yes, but hardness and mass makes a difference too. Would you take any damage if 400 pounds of teddy bears fell on you from 20 feet? No. Would you take damage if a 400 pound rock falls on you from 20 feet? YES.

Actually, the RAW says nothing about hardness. So, in D&D, you DO take damage from a giant falling teddybear.

On the other hand, you can drop copper pieces off the city walls and not hurt anyone.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Spiryt]

In the interest of nitpicking, you WOULD take damage from 400 pounds of teddy bears; it's still 400 pounds. You just wouldn't suffer the same amount of damage, mainly because 400 pounds of teddy bears is A) soft, and B) probably around 400 separate bears. A single 400-pound bear could easily break your arm or a couple of ribs. But it would be super cute. :smalltongue:

Don't forget about density.
Rock can be just that size like in 458 to weight 400 pounds.
Teddybear would have to be enormous to weight 400 pounds. Probably just one part of it will hit you, presure will be much smaller. Softness had been metioned.
Giant teddybear will be dangerous probably, certainly not like rock.

When i'm GM and something is about to fall on one of PC, i'm setting the rules "at the moment". Depending what and how is falling. Otherwise it would have no sense.

[David Argall]

Some physics:

A penny dropped from a city wall in a vacuum would be a bullet by the time it hit the ground, and potentially deadly. Air resistance fortunately slows it down substantially and reduces the damage. However the main reason it doesn't hurt is that it misses you.

400 teddy bears would hurt nearly as much as the same weight in rock if dropped from a sufficient height. The flexibility of the teddy bear is large, but still limited and when going fast enough, there is just not time to flex. Almost perfectly flexible water dropped from a few stories up will crack concrete.

The dragon head in 441 is of large size, roughly about 8 cubic feet. Since the weight of flesh is about the weight of water, it comes in somewhat above 400, but probably not greatly.

The height is uncertain, but the city walls seem to be about 50' and the head dropped from higher than that. Roy had the ring and a fighter usually has a pretty high jump skill, so we have a base 60+. If we measure from the arrow passing by Miko's cell, 100' is reasonable.

Under DMG, p 303 game rules, that is 2d6 base, +at least 5d6 [and given the time it took Roy to fall, this may be much higher], or about 25 minimum, maybe about 50 max. As said, this is not the sort of damage that should drop the critter, but it has taken some damage and one can invoke the "Not modeled well" rule to increase the damage sufficiently.

[jindra34]

Some physics:

A penny dropped from a city wall in a vacuum would be a bullet by the time it hit the ground, and potentially deadly. Air resistance fortunately slows it down substantially and reduces the damage. However the main reason it doesn't hurt is that it misses you.
Except 1 gram times about 300 mps is nowhere near lethal velocity.


400 teddy bears would hurt nearly as much as the same weight in rock if dropped from a sufficient height. The flexibility of the teddy bear is large, but still limited and when going fast enough, there is just not time to flex. Almost perfectly flexible water dropped from a few stories up will crack concrete.
no
1. They would have seperate terminal velocities and would be slower
2. They would compress reducing force

[Demented]

Each teddy bear is half a pound. Thus, you have 800 objects falling on you for... NO damage!

Or, if each teddy bear is one pound, they'd do no damage up until they're dropped from 70 feet... At which point, each of the 400 teddy bears is doing 1d6 damage... totalling 400d6 damage. Ouch.

The 400 lb. rock would only do 14d6 damage at the same height.

Sure it's not closer to 600-800 lbs.? It's quite a large rock....


(Also, David Argall... That'd need to be a pretty tall city wall. Dropped from a plane, sure...)

[Gnome King]

Those poor, poor catgirls.

Catgirls, we hardly knew ye.

[Spiryt]

Those poor, poor catgirls.

Catgirls, we hardly knew ye.

Heh.
I must say i don't get this catgirls theme at all.
Big piece of stone falling on somebody is deadly for him. I don't see why it should not be so, only beacuse D&D rules are little... You know.

The same way - falling Roy shoulf take no more than 20d6 damage...
Average 60 damage, so very probably he will hit the ground, drink the potion, and go away:smalltongue:

Fortunately, OotS is not 100% D&D.

[Zoolooman]

Almost perfectly flexible water dropped from a few stories up will crack concrete.

Err. Ideally, in a vacuum, water has enough force after a few stories to crack concrete. But in reality, water spreads out into drops in the air and has the terminal velocity of a summer shower.

[Rincewind]

how much damage WOULD that slab of rock in 458 accualy do to him?

precisely 51 hp damage.

[tanonev]

400 teddy bears would hurt nearly as much as the same weight in rock if dropped from a sufficient height. The flexibility of the teddy bear is large, but still limited and when going fast enough, there is just not time to flex.

Except that the height in 458 is nowhere near sufficient. Notice that the "rock" is actually the floor from the story above. Since there's no reason for prison cells to have abnormally high ceilings, we can safely assume that the ceiling is 10' high.

Now for an experiment: Grab a teddy bear, toss it up so that it hits the ceiling, and make sure it lands on your head on the way down. Repeat 400 times. Even if you're unfortunate enough to get hit by those beady eyes a few times, I guarantee that you'll survive. After all, the teddy bear will only be going at about 12 miles an hour.

A single 400-pound teddy bear would be a different story, if for no other reason than the fact that you have to worry about its owner o_O

[Setra]

Those poor, poor catgirls.

Catgirls, we hardly knew ye.
As I've said before.

I channel the Physics Death Energy into Monkeys.

You should pity them, for I keep catgirls safe *snuggles one*

On Topic, the rock does enough damage to kill him.

I'd say it weighs about.. Let's see.. presuming .. *mumbles* and the size.. *mumbles* About 600 lbs.

[GoC]

A penny dropped from a city wall in a vacuum would be a bullet by the time it hit the ground, and potentially deadly.

Deadly? It would have to be going at at least 100m/s to kill someone.
The formula d=(1/2a)*v^2 gives a height of about half a kilometer. A bit higher then your average wall.:smallamused:

[evileeyore]

Enough to kill him, obviously. It's been weighted by Plot, so it's damage can't really be written down.

Best answer ever. It has a pun, which hurts as it amuses.

[Demented]

/hides pile of dead catgirls from Setra
*grumble*
I do wish Setra would stop killing my monkey clerics. It's such a waste of resurrection magic...


Except that the height in 458 is nowhere near sufficient. Notice that the "rock" is actually the floor from the story above. Since there's no reason for prison cells to have abnormally high ceilings, we can safely assume that the ceiling is 10' high.

Now for an experiment: Grab a teddy bear, toss it up so that it hits the ceiling, and make sure it lands on your head on the way down. Repeat 400 times. Even if you're unfortunate enough to get hit by those beady eyes a few times, I guarantee that you'll survive. After all, the teddy bear will only be going at about 12 miles an hour.

A single 400-pound teddy bear would be a different story, if for no other reason than the fact that you have to worry about its owner o_O

Actually, the ceiling is about 15'-20' high judging by the views seen in-prison.

Also, there seems to be an obsession with oversized teddy bears... admittedly, they still don't weigh more than 20 pounds. Fluff doesn't weigh much. A 400 pound teddy bear would be the size of... an SUV? Nah, that'd be 250 pounds, tops...

[roadkiller]

People, solid stone is a lot heavier than it seems.

Granite weighs about 2600kg/cubic meter. Don't feel like doing the calculations to translate that into standard, but it looks to be about 1/6 of a cubic meter. So it weighs around 433kg which translates to 955 lbs.

5d6 for a ten foot fall or 10d6 for a 20 foot fall.

This is all horribly approximated and kills catgirls, but it seems closer to real than some of the guesses that people are coming up with.

[Rincewind]

People, solid stone is a lot heavier than it seems.

Granite weighs about 2600kg/cubic meter. Don't feel like doing the calculations to translate that into standard, but it looks to be about 1/6 of a cubic meter. So it weighs around 433kg which translates to 955 lbs.

5d6 for a ten foot fall or 10d6 for a 20 foot fall.

This is all horribly approximated and kills catgirls, but it seems closer to real than some of the guesses that people are coming up with.

Are you somehow the dude that originally created the "Car made of diamond" legend? Because you sound like you COULD have.

[roadkiller]

No, hadn't heard of that before. Those were just some quick measurements pulled off the internet or approximated by eye and plugged into basic calculations. Now I have to look up the diamond car legend, though.

EDIT:: *Twitches at the inaccuracy of the legend.* Diamond is the hardest metal, yes, but it fractures quite easily. The only thing hardness really measures is it's resistance to being scraped by other materials.

[Rincewind]

No, hadn't heard of that before. Those were just some quick measurements pulled off the internet or approximated by eye and plugged into basic calculations. Now I have to look up the diamond car legend, though.

Just don't calculate that much please =)

[Wyvern_55]

From the SRD:

Falling Objects

Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.

Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen.

For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).

Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.

For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.

Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.



Object Weight Falling Distance

200-101 lb. 20 ft.
100-51 lb. 30 ft.
50-31 lb. 40 ft.
30-11 lb. 50 ft.
10-6 lb. 60 ft.
5-1 lb. 70 ft.

[drKarling]

Err. Ideally, in a vacuum, water has enough force after a few stories to crack concrete. But in reality, water spreads out into drops in the air and has the terminal velocity of a summer shower.
Depends on how much water and how many stories we are talking about.

Even more crucially: since water is a fluid and has the internal integrity of.. well.. water, most of the energy in the impact will dissipate into deforming the body of water from a uniform block of water to a pool of water.
Yes, a large enough mass of water dropped from a given height will crack concrete, but not as much as the same mass of solid rock would.

[Setra]

No, hadn't heard of that before. Those were just some quick measurements pulled off the internet or approximated by eye and plugged into basic calculations. Now I have to look up the diamond car legend, though.

EDIT:: *Twitches at the inaccuracy of the legend.* Diamond is the hardest metal, yes, but it fractures quite easily. The only thing hardness really measures is it's resistance to being scraped by other materials.
Could you give me a link to that legend? I can't seem to find it.

[Demented]

Diamond is a crystal, not a metal*. Likewise, metal is typically also a crystal, in its solid form.

*Unless someone molested the periodic table while I was gone.


That said, there's no telling what would happen if someone made a diamond elemental.

[Setra]

That said, there's no telling what would happen if someone made a diamond elemental.
Haley would attempt to steal it, of course.

[Rincewind]

Diamond is a crystal, not a metal*. Likewise, metal is typically also a crystal, in its solid form.

*Unless someone molested the periodic table while I was gone.


That said, there's no telling what would happen if someone made a diamond elemental.

Oh, a challenger appears? :D

[Starshine]

may i add... it hit him in the head? a hammer hitting you in the knee is not lethal, a hammer hitting you in the head can be.

[Yeril]

For every 200 pounds of an object, it deals 1d6 damage for a 10-ft. fall, plus 1d6 for every 10 feet it falls.

Let's say the block weighs 400 pounds, and it fell 20 feet.

3d6

Not nearly enough to kill a character over 5th level, unless he was a wizard with VERY low Constitution.

The power of plot makes big damage, it does.


this is what I worked out, although it DID land on his head so that could be considered a critical hit. so maybe 6d6 or even 9d6 depending on the modifier.

so depending on his class it could kill him if hes low level.

and like somone said, it could have +20d6 plot damage.

[Setra]

What I want to know.. is why a 200lb stone falling 20feet might not kill a 1st level Fighter.

200 lbs is a lot.

[Rincewind]

What I want to know.. is why a 200lb stone falling 20feet might not kill a 1st level Fighter.

200 lbs is a lot.

Heroes' Luck

[Yeril]

defintly heros luck, Imagine what a 200lb rock falling 20ft would do to a first level commoner!

[Wonton]

What IS the diamond car legend, may I ask?

[dehro]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html

I think that this panel shows us that not everything ought to be analysed in to much detail

[Setra]

defintly heros luck, Imagine what a 200lb rock falling 20ft would do to a first level commoner!
It has the possibility of doing 3 damage

So it might not kill it. I think.

[tanonev]

Actually, the ceiling is about 15'-20' high judging by the views seen in-prison.

Assuming Thog is 6 feet tall and Nale can reach 2 feet above his head (reach rules for Medium creatures), Nale would have to be propelled upwards by (15 to 20) - (8-foot reach) - (6-foot Thog height - Thog's head + dead guy's head) - (Broken floor - floor thickness) = 1 to 6 feet to be just barely dangling from the ledge. That's a jump DC of 8 to 48, which might be even higher due to the jump occurring from balancing on someone's shoulders as opposed to springing off of solid ground. 15' I might buy, but 20' is a bit much.

I assumed 10' because that height would make it reasonable for Nale to grab the edge without having to get launched upwards. In any case, at 15' the teddy bear would hit your head at a speed of 17 miles an hour.

[David Argall]

Quote:
Almost perfectly flexible water dropped from a few stories up will crack concrete.


Err. Ideally, in a vacuum, water has enough force after a few stories to crack concrete. But in reality, water spreads out into drops in the air and has the terminal velocity of a summer shower.
The cases where it has cracked concrete have generally involved water balloons or the like. That is a minor limit on the ability of the water to splash, but the amount of force transfered to the concrete is still less than that of the same weight teddy bear going at the same speed [which are, granted, conditions a tad hard to achieve].

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Argall
A penny dropped from a city wall in a vacuum would be a bullet by the time it hit the ground, and potentially deadly.


Deadly? It would have to be going at at least 100m/s to kill someone.
That would depend on the area of impact [the force behind a needle is trivial, but can go right thru you if you had an impossibly long strong one.], and the coin would be hitting edge on due to air resistance. I can only guess the exact height where a penny would turn deadly and have probably underestimated the height, but don't go throwing them out of high buildings.


Except that the height in 458 is nowhere near sufficient.
Now where did I get the idea that we were discussing the head of the zombie dragon in 441? A good number of the same points apply of course, but ... Aw well... That means the crucial factor is ...


People, solid stone is a lot heavier than it seems.

Granite weighs about 2600kg/cubic meter. Don't feel like doing the calculations to translate that into standard, but it looks to be about 1/6 of a cubic meter. So it weighs around 433kg which translates to 955 lbs.

5d6 for a ten foot fall or 10d6 for a 20 foot fall.
Which seems about right. Or wrong from the perspective of it having killed a multi-leveled PC. [Maybe it scored a critical?]

[Basalock]

:biggrin: Where is this giant teddy bear everyone keeps talking about, I want to put it in bucket and give it walrus.

[Rincewind]

What IS the diamond car legend, may I ask?

From a screenshot of a GameFAQs discussion concerning car durability, in which one not-too-bright member mentioned that if a diamond car was crashed into an iron wall at 400mph, the car would be unharmed because:

"Diamond is one of the hardest metals (If not THE hardest metal) known the man."

[LtNOWIS]

The dragon head in 441 is of large size, roughly about 8 cubic feet. Since the weight of flesh is about the weight of water, it comes in somewhat above 400, but probably not greatly.

Um, but it's not flesh. It's the head of a zombie silver dragon. So there's gonna be a lot of bone and scale and so forth.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html

I think that this panel shows us that not everything ought to be analysed in to much detail
IIRC, she could've survived under the game system, due to the damage cap of 20d6, and the fact that she's so high level.

[Demented]

The only "diamond car" stuff I could find was actually a joke.

You can find it at the bottom of the uncyclopedia article for Diamond.

[Rincewind]

The only "diamond car" stuff I could find was actually a joke.

You can find it at the bottom of the uncyclopedia article for Diamond.

That should be it.

[Setra]

From a screenshot of a GameFAQs discussion concerning car durability, in which one not-too-bright member mentioned that if a diamond car was crashed into an iron wall at 400mph, the car would be unharmed because:

"Diamond is one of the hardest metals (If not THE hardest metal) known the man."
Alas, a product of lead paint chips.

[roadkiller]

My apologies, Carbon, the element which diamonds consist of, is not a metal, but a metalloid (non-metal).

Painfully Inaccurate Diamond Car Legend (http://seenonslash.com/node/1197)


How about we all settle that the man died a crushy death by being squashed by a rather large hunk of stone?

[Faramir]

The show Mythbusters tested the drop a penny from a height thing and these were the results:


First it would be hard to drop the penny because large buildings normally cause enough of an updraft to stop it from flying downward.

They determined (by dropping one from an airplane and from building a wind-tunnel) that the penny has a terminal velocity of ~64 MPH.

Then they simulated a penny strike at this speed on concrete, ballistic gel, and then their own hands. It was determined that at worst it would hurt a bit, but can't even penetrate skin- let alone kill you.

Adam built an adaptor for a rifle that let him shoot pennies out (by using a blank cartridge for propulsion). He managed to get the penny up to 3000fps which did manage to do some damage. Although in "nature" there is really no way to get the penny moving that fast.

[Tolkien_Freak]

My apologies, Carbon, the element which diamonds consist of, is not a metal, but a metalloid (non-metal).

Actually, it's just a plain nonmetal.


Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall traveling at miles

Now THAT is funny.


There is no point in analyzing this topic. He was killed by the force of Plot.

[holywhippet]

Wouldn't the fact that it hit his unarmoured head make a difference? That's a critical hit in my book. The guy has HP because of class levels, but I suspect he'd have to make a fortitude save vs death in this case.

Carbon is an odd element because in it's graphite form it does actually conduct electricity.

Hmm, a diamond car hitting an iron wall? The car would be shattered like glass, but I imagine the wall would might be shredded as well.

[Demented]

So you're suggesting that, instead of extra damage due to plot, it was a plot-necessitated natural 20?

We, the OOTS forum illuminati, shall confer about this abnormal theory in private. Do not expect a response. :smallannoyed:

[Finn Solomon]

Who on earth would say that getting hit with a one-pound teddy bear 400 times is the same as a 400-pound rock falling on your head once? It jolly well isn't.

[jindra34]

Who on earth would say that getting hit with a one-pound teddy bear 400 times is the same as a 400-pound rock falling on your head once? It jolly well isn't.

Welcome to the party your about 7 hours late but welcome none the less.

[Finn Solomon]

:durkon: Ach, I may be slow, but I get there in tha end.

[holywhippet]

So you're suggesting that, instead of extra damage due to plot, it was a plot-necessitated natural 20?

We, the OOTS forum illuminati, shall confer about this abnormal theory in private. Do not expect a response. :smallannoyed:

Hmm, after taking another look at the strip I noticed the guy who died was standing on a bucket just prior to getting killed. When he hits the ground he has fallen off the bucket. So as well as damage from taking a large slab of rock to the head, he also took damage from the fumble when he fell off the bucket.

[Baloo]

The same way - falling Roy shoulf take no more than 20d6 damage...
Average 60 damage, so very probably he will hit the ground, drink the potion, and go away:smalltongue:

Fortunately, OotS is not 100% D&D.
1: Average of 20d6 is 70, not 60.
2: Roy had, prior to falling, been hit by a Meteor Swarm for 32d6 damage (4 attacks each doing 2d6 bludgeoning+6d6 fire damage). That's another 112 points, for a total of 182 (and that's assuming average damage).
3: The Order are about 13th level (since V scribed Power Word: Blind, which is a 7th level spell). With average hp rolls (and max at first level), a 13th level fighter has an average of 76 hp. I don't believe Roy has a super Constitution (what with his high Int and Wisdom), maybe 14 or 16. Let's call it 16, which would be an additional 39 hp = 115
4: 115 hp is WAY less than 182. Roy would need an average of 14 hp per level to survive that, which is kinda hard to do with d10+Con bonus - he would need a Con of about 26. Even assuming max rolls for hp, he would need a Con of 18.

[Rincewind]

1: Average of 20d6 is 70, not 60.
2: Roy had, prior to falling, been hit by a Meteor Swarm for 32d6 damage (4 attacks each doing 2d6 bludgeoning+6d6 fire damage). That's another 112 points, for a total of 182 (and that's assuming average damage).
3: The Order are about 13th level (since V scribed Power Word: Blind, which is a 7th level spell). With average hp rolls (and max at first level), a 13th level fighter has an average of 76 hp. I don't believe Roy has a super Constitution (what with his high Int and Wisdom), maybe 14 or 16. Let's call it 16, which would be an additional 39 hp = 115
4: 115 hp is WAY less than 182. Roy would need an average of 14 hp per level to survive that, which is kinda hard to do with d10+Con bonus - he would need a Con of about 26. Even assuming max rolls for hp, he would need a Con of 18.

They see me fallin'
They hatin'

[Yeril]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html

I think that this panel shows us that not everything ought to be analysed in to much detail

Awesome blow feat wieghted by Plot attack.

[nimby]

So as well as damage from taking a large slab of rock to the head, he also took damage from the fumble when he fell off the bucket.

You fumble and fall of the bucket for 100 damage. A slab of stone falls from the ceiling, hitting you in the head for 5 damage. You are dead.

[dehro]

Um, but it's not flesh. It's the head of a zombie silver dragon. So there's gonna be a lot of bone and scale and so forth.


IIRC, she could've survived under the game system, due to the damage cap of 20d6, and the fact that she's so high level.

if a horse falls on your head from "that" height YOU DIE, I've fallen from and with enough horses to know as much.
there is such a thing as sense of reality that to me is stronger than any rule of the manual...(and that's something that I put in a very secure closet when I read a comic, that's not supposed to be "real" at all, whatever the sistem of reference)
what I meant to say is simply that not everything HAS to be possible, in a comic, be it following the rules of the games of those of common phisics.

anyway, if 400 teddybears fall on me, they might not kill me but it's still going to take me the better part of a week to dig myself out.