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Jimp
2007-06-02, 10:20 AM
Lately I have fallen in love with the idea of using magic to boost combat abilities. I was satisfied in 3rd edition with a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer/Abjurant Champion. Soon I'll be playing a 2nd edition game, but I'm not entirely sure how to go about making a gish.

Vital info:
Edition = 2nd
Starting Level = 3rd
Ability Scores = 16, 15, 13, 13, 11, 10 (I dun rolled up good)
Books = most, we have an extensive 2nd edition collection.

Before someone suggests a Kensai/Mage, I'm not sure that the Kensai class actually exists. Even if it did, it's a bit too broken.
I'm just looking for someone focused on combat that uses magic to buff himself up and maybe hamper the enemy a bit.

Matthew
2007-06-02, 10:31 AM
Kensai did not exist in Second Edition as a Kit, though it did as a Base class in First Edition Oriental Adventures. You wouldn't be able to Multi Class with it anyway, or so I understand.

You need to be Demi Human to begin with to get most of the benefits.

An Elf Fighter/Mage is probably your best bet. Then it's Kit time in the Complete Book of Elves. Question is, though, are you using Player's Option...?

Blade Singer and War Wizard are your options in Complete Elf Fighter/Mage Kits. There's also a bunch of optional abilities that might help you out in that same book (Blade Song Fighting Style, for instance).

To qualify for Blade Singer you need:

Strength 13
Dexterity 15
Constitution 13
Intelligence 15

So, your Attributes are pretty much chosen for you.

Take Long Sword as your Chosen Weapon and you net a +2 to Hit (+1 from Kit, +1 from Elf) and +1 Damage (from Kit). Then you devote three weapon proficiencies into Blade Singing to get the three options that allow you to increase Offense (+2 AB), Defence (+2 AC) or Parry and Attack in the same round. You end up with +4 to Hit that way.

If you are using the optional Weapon Specialisation rules for Multi Class Fighters, you spend another two proficiences to get +1 to Hit and +2 to Damage (depending on which rules you use, Player's option is more severe, as you need to be level X as a Multi Class to qualify)

So, net bonus by this time is +5 to Hit and +3 to Damage when using a Long Sword. There are a bunch of drawbacks that you need to be aware of, of course (no Shield, penalties for using other weapons, no Bow Bonus...).

Were-Sandwich
2007-06-02, 10:38 AM
From what I hear (having no practical experience) bladesinger kit is broken-awesome.

Jimp
2007-06-02, 10:47 AM
Thanks for the Blade Singer option, I'll take a look.

IMPORTANT UPDATE: Our DM is not limiting a race's class choice. Dwarves can be Mages, Gnomes can be Paladins etc. Standard Multi and Dual classing restrictions are still in place though.

Matthew
2007-06-02, 10:52 AM
War Wizard will get you a very similar bonus, as they can also learn Blade Singing. They don't get the Bonus to Damage from a chosen weapon, but they can still end up with +5 to Hit and +2 to Damage with a Long sword. No nasty Attribute prerequisites or penalties for using other weapons either. Also, you can even things out with Bow and Sword, as the chosen weapon can be a Bow.

You can also take Single Weapon Style Specialisation, which you can use to drive up your AC. Most of these have to be powered by Bonus Proficiencies from Intelligence.

Putting a 15(16 for Elf) in Dexterity will net you +2 AC and +1 Ranged AB, as well as +1 Initiative. Putting 16(17 for Elf) in Dexterity Intelligence will net you +3 AC, +2 ranged AB and +2 Initiative. Putting 16 in Intelligence will get you 5 Bonus Proficiencies, but 15 only 4.

Here's my take (assuming you are Level 3 in both Classes):

Elf Fighter/Mage
Strength 13
Dexterity 16(17) - +3 AC, +2 Ranged AB, +2 Reaction Bonus
Constitution 13(12)
Intelligence 15 - 4 Bonus Proficiencies
Wisdom 11
Charisma 10

HP 3D4 + 3D8, AC -1, THAC0 18 (with Long Sword 14)

Weapon Proficiencies: 4 Starting + 4 Intelligence + 1 Level
Non Weapon Proficiencies: 4 + 1 Level

With nine Weapon Proficiency Slots, you should be able to cover the bases:

Long Sword Proficiency [1 Slot]
Long Sword Specialisation (+1 AB, +2 DB) [1 Slot]
Single Weapon Style Specialisation (+2 AC) [2 Slots]
Blade Singing Style Specialisation (+2 AB or +2 DB or Free Parry) [3 Slots]

If your DM allows Weapon Mastery Rules, you might be able to get an even better bonus, as you have three to four Proficiencies left.

Armour Class

With Mage Armour, Dexterity and Fighting Style Bonuses, your AC should be:

10 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 21 or in (A)D&D terms -1. (or 1, if you don't use Blade Song to get the +2 AC)

Attack Bonus

With Elf Bonus, Specialisation and Blade Song, you should be able to get a 14 THAC0 when using a Long Sword at Level 3.

Do look into getting a good quality Sword, if you cannot get a Magical one, as they can grant additional mundane bonuses to hit and damage.

Roderick_BR
2007-06-02, 01:52 PM
If you plan in going into meele, you can spend 1 weapon skill points to get Two weapon fighting, gaining a second attack with a off-hand weapon with the same bonuses you get with your main weapon. If you spend 2, you can use 2 weapons with the same size.
No -2 to attack rolls, no strength penalty to off-hand weapon, and you can AWAYS attack with all your attacks in a round, no matter if you move or not.
Bladesinger was very good, not that thing in 3rd edition.

Narmoth
2007-06-02, 02:26 PM
welcome in the "Still playing 2nd edition" - club. Great to know I'm not the only DM not wanting to go over to 3.0 or 3.5

Anyway, I really don't suggest playing a wizard that is mostly figting close combat. Why? Because in 2nd ed, you have really little health. At 3rd level you have only 3d4 + not more than +2 hitpoints/level from constitution.
You can't cast spells and wear armour (some exceptions like elven chain and such) so you get this really ***** armour class.

If anything, I'd go with the war wizard kit for a specialist in invocation/evocation magic. You can get racial bonus on a weapon if you play some races as mentioned, and if you play some subraces, you get some ability bonuses also. Still, you won't be as good as a fighter in hand to hand combat, and should think more of casting spells than hitting things even if you buy weapon specialisation, weapon of choise and fighting style specialisation, as the fighter will also have this. In the end, the group will simply be more powerfull, forsing the Dm to adjust his monsters accordingly.

Matthew
2007-06-02, 03:06 PM
You cannot Multi Class as a Specialist Wizard, with the single exception of Illusionist Gnomes, as far as I recall. There may be a Variant Rule that allows it somewhere, but not one that I can think of.

Yeah, Two Weapon Fighting is pretty good in (A)D&D 2.x, but be careful. It wasn't intended to work in combination with Blade Song (as can be discerned from the Blade Singer Kit), but technically there is nothing prohibiting it (mainly because of a typo in that Kit). Your DM may or may not feel strongly about allowing or not allowing them to work together.
Whether you can move and make all your attacks (including the Off Hand ones) at the same time also depends on which version of the rules you are using. Combat and Tactics doesn't allow for this, for instance.