New BM manouvers - thoughts?

[Malifice]

Blinding Attack: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to blind the target (reflecting the sun into your targets face, thowing sand in his eyes, or causing blood to drip into his eyes). You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is blinded until the start of your next turn.

Rapid strike: You can expend one superiority dice to make one weapon attack with any weapon you wield as a bonus action on your turn.

Into the fray: When you roll initiative, you can expend one superiority dice and add it to your initiative score result. You can choose to use this manouver after all initiative results are determined, but before anyone takes their first turn in the battle.

Mettle: As a reaction, you can expend a superiority dice when you attempt a saving throw you are not proficient in, adding the result to the save. You can choose to use this manouver after you roll the dice, but before the result is determined. If you fail and are allowed to re-roll the save for any reason (such as the indomitable class feature), you can also re-roll the superiority dice.

Far shot: When you make a ranged or thrown melee weapon attack against a creature, you can expend a superiority dice and double the range increment for that attack. If your attack hits, you may add your superiority dice to the attacks damage.

Painful strike: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to break that creatures concentration on any spells or other effects it maintains. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and if the target is concentrating on a spell or other effect, it has disadvantage on any saves it makes to maintain that concentration caused by your attack.

Thoughts?

[mephnick]

I like them a lot. Of course, the BM needs options so badly I'll take anything I can find, but I think they're fairly balanced and useful.

I've already had a dozen situations in which Far Shot could have saved the day.

I'm not sure how often Into the Fray would be used, but it's a nice option.

Love Painful Strike for that mage killer vibe which the game lacks a bit at the moment.

[Cyan Wisp]

I like 'em. They seem in keeping power-wise and offer quite niche, interesting talents.

I personally might rename "painful strike" to be more...disrupting or something. Assassins might like "Into the Fray". Love the idea of blinding strike. Rapid strike... Seems fine and is a limited resource after all. Far shot...yay!

I don't know. I'm not totally convinced by "Mettle" simply because I'm having trouble picturing it as a "manoeuvre".

Cool! Thanks for your work. :smallsmile:

[Malifice]

I personally might rename "painful strike" to be more...disrupting or something.

Yeah; Its clearly just a mage disruptor. I didnt want to make it expressly so in the title though.


Assassins might like "Into the Fray".

As might anyone who fights against them.


Love the idea of blinding strike.

Another mage killer. Blinded mages cant target you with most spell attacks (in addition to its other benefits). I reduced the time to 'start of your next turn' instead of 'end of your next turn' as blinded is a worse conditiont than frightened, and menacing strike is a thing.


Rapid strike... Seems fine and is a limited resource after all.

Rapid shot and flurry all in one. I figured you're blowing a (d8-d12) guarantee of damage (expending a die on a hit) for a less guarnateed chance of landing a (weapon dice + Str) attack at the cost of your bonus action (and the dice).


Far shot...yay!

Seemed cool. When Achillies threw that spear in Troy and Hector was all like 'Thats an impossible shot' I wanted some of that (also some archery love).


I don't know. I'm not totally convinced by "Mettle" simply because I'm having trouble picturing it as a "manoeuvre".

ToB had those Diamond mind manouvers that swapped concentration checs for a save (moment of perfect mind, action before thought, Diamond defece etc), and Iron heart surge that allowed save re-rolls and you to shake off certain conditions. Im aiming for that feel.

I was thinking about breaking it down into three manouvers with each one letting you spend a sup dice to boost two saves: Action before thought (Dex, Int), Moment of perfect mind (Wis, Cha) and Mind over Body (Str, Con).

[djreynolds]

Rapid strike is cool, it gives the swift quiver feel for an archer. Far shot coupled with sharp shooter could be very powerful.

How about something that added a superiority die to hit, or added superiority die to AC?

And now that panache is around, a performance type maneuver that if it hits, your opponent has to roll an insight check to beat your performance check or your opponents AC is knocked down by your by your charisma modifier for the rest of the turn.

[Dimolyth]

I`d like them, except maybe Rapid Strike. Any character can spend ASI to get it 1/short rest - that could a little OP for some class combinations...

[djreynolds]

I`d like them, except maybe Rapid Strike. Any character can spend ASI to get it 1/short rest - that could a little OP for some class combinations...

Very true, but you could grab war cleric. I find ranger with a few levels of war cleric, to be a nice build. Even helps expand the rangers known spells because he can now dump spells that the cleric has.

[Malifice]

I`d like them, except maybe Rapid Strike. Any character can spend ASI to get it 1/short rest - that could a little OP for some class combinations...

I dont think a 1/short rest bonus action attack is OP (for the cost of an ASI)?

The ASI could be spent on +2 Strength (for +1 hit and damage) over the whole 2-3 encounters per short rest (meaning its probably a much higher sustained DPR).

[djreynolds]

I dont think a 1/short rest bonus action attack is OP (for the cost of an ASI)?

The ASI could be spent on +2 Strength (for +1 hit and damage) over the whole 2-3 encounters per short rest (meaning its probably a much higher sustained DPR).

It is probably less OP if you think about it. Most melee characters will have a use for their bonus action, I.E. polearm master, shield master, TWF, but for the guy with a bow or greatsword having a second chance or bonus chance to land a needed hit to dispatch a foe could be nice. And since it is a bonus action it will not double with action surge, so there's no NOVA cheese.

I like all the maneuvers, but Mettle could be OP. But so what, so isn't the WISH spell

[Malifice]

It is probably less OP if you think about it. Most melee characters will have a use for their bonus action, I.E. polearm master, shield master, TWF, but for the guy with a bow or greatsword having a second chance or bonus chance to land a needed hit to dispatch a foe could be nice. And since it is a bonus action it will not double with action surge, so there's no NOVA cheese.

I like all the maneuvers, but Mettle could be OP. But so what, so isn't the WISH spell

Yeah - thars why I was thinking of breaking it down into 3 differnt manouvers, with each one dealing with 2 saves. You can't dip martial adept for an auto save win. You can cover 4 saves if you select 2 of them and have one +1d6 1/short rest which seems balanced.

[Paeleus]

These seem very handy without being explicitly OP. I especially like the bed towards Mage Slaying. I do have questions about your Painful Strike. Per Concentration rules, the spell caster makes a save against damage taken. Would PS make a GWF BM armed with a great sword the ultimate concentration ender? 2d6 + 1d8/10/12 + 5/15 with the ability to reroll 1's and 2's. Plus disadvantage for them. Do you have any balance issues with this?

[Fwiffo86]

Blinding Attack: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to blind the target (reflecting the sun into your targets face, thowing sand in his eyes, or causing blood to drip into his eyes). You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is blinded until the start of your next turn.

Add superiority die to the attack roll instead of damage. Blindness and more accurate chance to hit seems to fit better to me. Would definitely require a maneuver save.



Rapid strike: You can expend one superiority dice to make one weapon attack with any weapon you wield as a bonus action on your turn.

I like this, but shouldn't there be a way to use the die roll as well?



Into the fray: When you roll initiative, you can expend one superiority dice and add it to your initiative score result. You can choose to use this manouver after all initiative results are determined, but before anyone takes their first turn in the battle.

I like this, but I seldom see a reason for a fighter to NEED to go first.



Mettle: As a reaction, you can expend a superiority dice when you attempt a saving throw you are not proficient in, adding the result to the save. You can choose to use this manouver after you roll the dice, but before the result is determined. If you fail and are allowed to re-roll the save for any reason (such as the indomitable class feature), you can also re-roll the superiority dice.

I'll be honest.. either spend the superiority die as described, OR use indomitable. Not both. Or if both, consume Bonus action.



Far shot: When you make a ranged or thrown melee weapon attack against a creature, you can expend a superiority dice and double the range increment for that attack. If your attack hits, you may add your superiority dice to the attacks damage.

I definitely can see this with thrown weapons. Not so much with Ranged weapons. As the range increment is large enough that it would seldom be used by an archery character. Especially in the case of a long bow.



Painful strike: When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to break that creatures concentration on any spells or other effects it maintains. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and if the target is concentrating on a spell or other effect, it has disadvantage on any saves it makes to maintain that concentration caused by your attack.

I like this. Requires getting in their face, AND hitting them. I would add the SD roll to the attack roll instead (thinking overcoming shield here) of damage, and forcing the disadvantage concentration roll. Would probably require a Maneuver save though.

Just my opinions.

[tieren]

I like this. Requires getting in their face, AND hitting them. I would add the SD roll to the attack roll instead (thinking overcoming shield here) of damage, and forcing the disadvantage concentration roll. Would probably require a Maneuver save though.

Just my opinions.

I second this. Any weapon attack is already an attempt to break concentration and the dmg effects the DC, so making it hit harder and forcing disadvantage seems too much. Making it easier to hit and get past a shield spell though seems like a better use of the SD.

I also assume that against a caster with the war caster feat the advantage and disadvantage would just cancel each other out.

[Malifice]

These seem very handy without being explicitly OP. I especially like the bed towards Mage Slaying. I do have questions about your Painful Strike. Per Concentration rules, the spell caster makes a save against damage taken. Would PS make a GWF BM armed with a great sword the ultimate concentration ender? 2d6 + 1d8/10/12 + 5/15 with the ability to reroll 1's and 2's. Plus disadvantage for them. Do you have any balance issues with this?

In a word, no. There is plenty of room in my campaigns for mage slayers!

It also has a niche with ranged sharpshooter Fighters trying to disrupt a casters concentration. It's quite limited in its application. To be honest, I considered adding something else on to it (such as it also grants disadvantage to any ability checks till the end of your next turn from the pain).

As noted a mage with warcaster cancels out the main benefit of the ability also.

It's probably ok as written though. Niche - but you'll be glad you have it when the opportunity presents.

[djreynolds]

In a word, no. There is plenty of room in my campaigns for mage slayers!

It also has a niche with ranged sharpshooter Fighters trying to disrupt a casters concentration. It's quite limited in its application. To be honest, I considered adding something else on to it (such as it also grants disadvantage to any ability checks till the end of your next turn from the pain).

As noted a mage with warcaster cancels out the main benefit of the ability also.

It's probably ok as written though. Niche - but you'll be glad you have it when the opportunity presents.

I would like a rewrite on parry, maybe where you can add your superiority die to reaction as AC. Defensive duelist adds proficiency to AC for a meager 13 dex and a rapier.

[Malifice]

I would like a rewrite on parry, maybe where you can add your superiority die to reaction as AC. Defensive duelist adds proficiency to AC for a meager 13 dex and a rapier.

They avoided AC boosters for a reason methinks.

[Zalabim]

Blinding Attack:

Rapid strike:

Into the fray:

Mettle:

Far shot:

Painful strike:

Thoughts?
Blinding attack: Stronger than tripping attack. No size limit, disadvantage to all attacks, all incoming attacks have advantage, no opportunity attacks, and lasts past the start of the creature's turn, for the cost of Con saves being higher than Str. Could tone it down to last until end of fighter's current turn.

Rapid Strike: I like the effect, but dislike that it doesn't use the die roll.
Alternate: Follow-up Strike: When you miss with a weapon attack, you may spend a superiority die to make a weapon attack as a bonus action. Roll the die and add the result to the damage if the attack hits. Better than feint, but feint is probably weak enough to supercede.

Into the Fray is lovely.

Mettle: Could just call it Steel Nerves, and I don't see a point in limiting it to non-proficient saves. Every fighter needs a better off-save boost than Indomitable though.

Far Shot: On the one hand, doubled long range is very long. On the other hand, doubled short range is shorter than just removing disadvantage for a long range shot. Fine either way.

Painful Strike: Just call it disrupting strike. Adds damage and target must make a Con save or lose concentration. Bypasses concentration save boosters, same DC regardless of damage roll (maneuver DC), so it's useful to more fighters. Frightened from Menacing Strike already gives disadvantage on ability checks, or Poisoned is a similar condition for a painful strike.

[djreynolds]

They avoided AC boosters for a reason methinks.

But I loved combat expertise from 3.5, coupled with a fighter it was just awesome.