Domain Elf Wizard: Level 9 spells at Wizard1?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

I've heard some people talk about how this is possible, but I never got the full explanation. Someone please explain this to me - how a level 1 Wizard can cast level 9 spells from his spell slots - thoroughly.

[MisterKaws]

-Domain Wizard(UA)
-Elf Generalist(RotW)
-Spell Mastery(PH1) for uncanny forethough
-Flaws:
-Uncanny Forethough(EoE) for spontaneous spellcasting
-Versatile Spellcaster(RotD)

Domain Gizard grants you a known spell and a prepared spell slot for every level spell you can cast, Elf Generalist also gives one extra slot for every level you can cast. Now why the hell did I put emphasis on the "can cast" part? well that's because of Versatile Spellcaster: You can spend two spell slots of a same level to cast a spell you know with one higher level than the two, and guess what? you get spells from 1-9 with Domain Wizard, which means you can cast any spell known with a single level higher than your current slots, and if you can cast this spell, then the next day you get two spell slots from that higher level, one from Domain Wizard and one from Elf Generalist, and repeat the loop.

Let me just say it to you, nobody is ever gonna allow this much munchkinry, as it's Pun-Pun level cheddar:


Get conjuration domain and use gate
Call Pazuzu
Even though you can't possibly hope to control him, he's a nice guy :smallbiggrin:
Ask him for a candle of invocation
Call an Efreeti
Ask him for COMPLETE WORLD DOMINATION
???
Profit!

[Endarire]

Let's assume I'm a Gray Elf Generalist Conjuration Domain Wizard. How does the gaining of higher level spells known/higher level slots work? It seems like I use Versatile Spellcaster to convert two level 1 spells to a level 2 spell, thereby giving me access to level 2 tech. Beyond that, I'm not seeing it. I'm also not seeing how my caster level of 1 can cast any of these higher level spells.

[Troacctid]

-Domain Wizard(UA)
-Elf Generalist(RotW)
-Spell Mastery(PH1) for uncanny forethough
-Flaws:
-Uncanny Forethough(EoE) for spontaneous spellcasting
-Versatile Spellcaster(RotD)

Domain Gizard grants you a known spell and a prepared spell slot for every level spell you can cast, Elf Generalist also gives one extra slot for every level you can cast. Now why the hell did I put emphasis on the "can cast" part? well that's because of Versatile Spellcaster: You can spend two spell slots of a same level to cast a spell you know with one higher level than the two, and guess what? you get spells from 1-9 with Domain Wizard, which means you can cast any spell known with a single level higher than your current slots, and if you can cast this spell, then the next day you get two spell slots from that higher level, one from Domain Wizard and one from Elf Generalist, and repeat the loop.

Except you don't know the domain spells until you are able to cast spells of that level, which you can't do unless you know them. Furthermore, Uncanny Forethought is not spontaneous casting by RAW, so you don't qualify for Versatile Spellcaster.

[nedz]

Let's assume I'm a Gray Elf Generalist Conjuration Domain Wizard. How does the gaining of higher level spells known/higher level slots work? It seems like I use Versatile Spellcaster to convert two level 1 spells to a level 2 spell, thereby giving me access to level 2 tech. Beyond that, I'm not seeing it. I'm also not seeing how my caster level of 1 can cast any of these higher level spells.

It's an inductive argument.

I can cast spells of level 1
I can convert 2 spells of level x into one spell of level x+1 (Versatile Spellcaster)
If I can cast 1 spell of level x+1, I can cast two (Elf Generalist)


Gray Elf gets you the 19 Int

Your CL is still 1 — why is this a problem ?

[Xervous]

It's an inductive argument.

I can cast spells of level 1
I can convert 2 spells of level x into one spell of level x+1 (Versatile Spellcaster)
If I can cast 1 spell of level x+1, I can cast two (Elf Generalist)


Gray Elf gets you the 19 Int

Your CL is still 1 — why is this a problem ?

The problem there is that you don't have a 2nd level spell to pop out with versatile spellcaster in the first place so you can't actually cast any second level spell. If you had heighten or sanctum spell you could pull this off, though if sanctum spell works for our considerations you can just do...

Domain generalist elf with sanctum spell. 9ths in a few days, the end.

[nedz]

The problem there is that you don't have a 2nd level spell to pop out with versatile spellcaster in the first place so you can't actually cast any second level spell. If you had heighten or sanctum spell you could pull this off, though if sanctum spell works for our considerations you can just do...

Domain generalist elf with sanctum spell. 9ths in a few days, the end.


A domain wizard automatically adds each new domain spell to her list of known spells as soon as she becomes able to cast it. These spells do not count against her two new spells known per wizard level.


You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows.

There does seem to be a chicken and egg problem here, so yes, you need another feat.

[Zancloufer]

I don't think this trick works as well as people seem to think it does. Let's assume we have a 20 INT Grey/Sun elf with domain wizard and Elf Generalist at level 1. Therefore we have 4 level 0 spells and 4 level 1 spells (1 from wizard +1 from generalist and +2 front +5 int mod). Uncanny Foresight let's you spontaneously cast spells you know, but you can only use a number of slots equal to our int mod (which is +5). Versatile spell-caster lets us use slots we cast spontaneously from to cast a spell 1 level higher for 2 lower level spells.

Therefore:

Uncanny-foresight, use 2 level 1, 2 level 2 and a level 3 are now "Spontaneous".

Elf Generalist grants us that extra spell slot each level as we know a spell from that level.

This works because Domain Wizard make it so we know 1 spell from each level.

We use this trick to convert half our level 1 spells into a level 2 spell. We know a level 2 spell and can cast one, therefore we have 2 level 2 spells which turn into a level 3 spell. A level 3 spell that is cast at CL 2 because of Domain Wizard, but a level 3 spell none the less. Also it's not like the domain spells are that game breaking. Most spells have a weak effect and/or practically no duration at CL2.

It's a solid trick. Makes for a much more powerful wizard at level 1, though it is pretty feat intensive. At least it scales and in the long run the feats are not wasted.

[Troacctid]

I wouldn't call it a solid trick. It's on extremely shaky ground rules-wise. By RAW, it doesn't work at all. If you're going to ignore problematic rules anyway, it would be much more expedient to simply start with an Intelligence score of 18 and claim that you therefore gain a bonus 4th level spell slot.

[MisterKaws]

I did also let pass the fact that both couldn't even coexist without DM fiat, as both are specialization variants.