Are there ways to prevent natural 1s from being auto failures?

[Armads]

Does anyone know of ways to prevent natural 1s on saving throws to be automatic failures?

[greenknight]

Does anyone know of ways to prevent natural 1s on saving throws to be automatic failures?

I don't know any way to completely prevent it, but if you get a Luckblade (or a "Lucky" weapon from the Magic Item Compendium, +1 modifier), or you have the Luck Domain, you can get a reroll.

[Dhavaer]

There's a feat in the PHB2 that does this, but only for Fortitude saves.

[Reinboom]

Most of the Luck Feats in the complete scoundrel involve things like this. Even going as having feats that let you change natural 1s to natural 20s.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Choose Destiny is a 9th level spell that lets you roll twice for most actions and get the better roll. Thus, there's only a 1/400 chance of rolling a natural 1 anywhere.

You can also be a deity of Rank 1 or higher-such beings do not treat natural 1s as failures.

[Ikkitosen]

ToB has a manoeuvre that allows you to make a concentration check in place of a Will save. As a skill check it doesn't auto-fail on a 1.

[Fourth Tempter]

Choose Destiny is a 9th level spell that lets you roll twice for most actions and get the better roll. Thus, there's only a 1/400 chance of rolling a natural 1 anywhere.

You can also be a deity of Rank 1 or higher-such beings do not treat natural 1s as failures.

Along those lines, the Pride domain lets you reroll any 1 you roll on a saving throw once (if it comes up again, you keep it). Between that and Choose Destiny, you will not fail saves on a natural one.
So, a cleric with three levels of Prestige Paladin (for Charisma to saves) and the Pride and Destiny domain is your best bet, at least for saving throws.

[Nebo_]

Knight 17 lets you not auto-fail on a natural 1 for saves.

[Accersitus]

ToB has a manoeuvre that allows you to make a concentration check in place of a Will save. As a skill check it doesn't auto-fail on a 1.

I think it's one for each save, but the reflex and fortitude variants are lvl 2 and 3 maneuvers.

[Bagera]

There's an optional rule to treat a 1 as a -10 rather than a right out failure.

[Gavin Sage]

I saw a variant rule somewhere which treats Nat 1s and 20s not as automatic anythings but as a -/+10 bonus respectively. Which most of the time amounts to the same thing.

EDIT: Post Ninja'd

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

There's a feat in the PHB2 that does this, but only for Fortitude saves.

Good feat too; Steadfast Determination. If your character has a better CON score than WIS score, than this feat is for you. In addition to not failing FORT saves on a 1, you also gain your CON modifier in the place of your WIS modifier for Will saves. It requires Endurance; which every melee character should have anyway.

[I_Got_This_Name]

It requires Endurance; which every melee character should have anyway.

If you like wasting feats, sure. I'd take Weapon Focus over Endurance, and that's Weapon Focus. A +1 bonus that I use all the time beats a +4 bonus to a roll that rarely sees play.

[Seffbasilisk]

If you like wasting feats, sure. I'd take Weapon Focus over Endurance, and that's Weapon Focus. A +1 bonus that I use all the time beats a +4 bonus to a roll that rarely sees play.

Again if you like wasting feats.

Stick to power attack. Flexibility, allows for massive whumping, opens up entire trees.

Or combat expertise if you want to go for a tricksy fighter.

[Human Paragon 3]

There is an alternate rule in, I believe, the unearthed arcana which lets you treat a 1 and a -10 instead of an automatic failure, so if your modifier is +20, the roll of a natural 1 would be a modified 10.

Likewise, instead of being an automatic success, a natural 20 is considered to be a 30.

I like this rule because it seems more balanced, and prevents ridiculous crap form happening, like level 30 epic characters from stabbing themselves with their own swords 5% of the time.

[NullAshton]

Kensai likewise has an ability that lets you use concentration checks in place of reflex saves.

[Yechezkiel]

Does anyone know of ways to prevent natural 1s on saving throws to be automatic failures?

As said above, Complete Scoundrel's [Luck] feats are worth taking a look at.

[AtomicKitKat]

I loathe Halflings, but Luckstealer(Races of the Wild) lets you "curse" other people(in a similar manner to a Hexblade, actually), while using the "stolen luck" to power you with rerolls and stuff.

[ocato]

I do not believe in natural 1s auto-failing saving throws. I'm sorry, but if you have +35 to saves, you aren't getting hit by a L1 spell 5% of the time guarenteed. Low level characters shouldn't be able to follow large enemies around spamming L1 spells on it until it fails the save with a 1. Not that low level characters have that many spell slots or wouldn't just get eaten. But if you have a higher bonus to a save than the DC of the save, you made it. The end. You aren't going to hit that balor with blackguard levels with color spray. Learn to live with disappointment. Small as it feels, 5% is way too high for an 'everything completely fails regardless of competency', at least for something as important as a saving throw. Attacks I can understand, but not the "you rolled a 1 and therefore cut your leg off" stuff. If you roll a 1 and automatically miss, there should be a confirm fumble roll like with crits. Fumbles should involve dropping your sword, opening yourself to counter attack, or maybe hitting a friend if he's nearby. Not "you break your +5 greatsword in half by hitting a rock". Not "you swing the sword down and accidentally cut both of your legs off". That's at least my opinion. If you have a base attack bonus, you can probably use a weapon you are proficient with well enough to not accidentally kill yourself 5% of the time.

[EvilElitest]

Does anyone know of ways to prevent natural 1s on saving throws to be automatic failures?

Why? At high levels, sometimes a natrual one is the only way you can fail, and it is no fun without a chance of failure
from,
EE

[Fourth Tempter]

If a natural one is the only way in which you can fail, then the task in question is dramatically insignificant, and rather than providing tension the possibility of rolling a natural one and failing is instead rather ridiculous; indeed, it is for that reason that Divine Ranks grant one the ability to not fail saves on a natural 1. A house rule declaring that to be the case for all characters would, I think, be beneficial to gameplay (if you want the characters to have a chance of failure, pit them against something with a higher Difficulty Check).

[HomerHT]

Best way to prevent natural 1's from being auto-failures: Ask the DM really nicely. Bake him/her brownies or something beore asking. It gives you a +2 bonus on your diplomacy check.

[Dhavaer]

If a natural one is the only way in which you can fail, then the task in question is dramatically insignificant, and rather than providing tension the possibility of rolling a natural one and failing is instead rather ridiculous; indeed, it is for that reason that Divine Ranks grant one the ability to not fail saves on a natural 1. A house rule declaring that to be the case for all characters would, I think, be beneficial to gameplay (if you want the characters to have a chance of failure, pit them against something with a higher Difficulty Check).

Having just made a character with the Supreme Cleave ability, I can see why, in some situations, there should be some chance of failure even for very low DC rolls.
On the other hand, I'm just as happy to be able to empty Helm's Deep in one round. Either way.

[Fourth Tempter]

For attack rolls, it should stay; for something as critical and potentially character-ending as saving throws, I do not believe it should.

[Dhavaer]

For attack rolls, it should stay; for something as critical and potentially character-ending as saving throws, I do not believe it should.

That's fair enough. Do you think automatic success for saves should stay as well?

[Fourth Tempter]

That is a much more minor issue--it could go either way. For the sake of "fairness", presumably it would go.

[Tam Lin]

That's fair enough. Do you think automatic success for saves should stay as well?

Meh! The autowin/autolose stuff goes together. Lose the 1-is-lose and you drop the 20-is-win thing, IMO.

[ocato]

Auto success on 20 makes equally little sense to me. Oh no, my L1 character automatically resists a L19 wizard's super will save or death spell 5% of the time guarenteed. That wizard would kill himself if that happened, especially if anyone saw.

[Matthew]

I wouldn't tend to agree. For Opposed Rolls, Auto Success and Auto Failure makes no sense, but in the case of Saving Throws, there should always be a chance of success or failure. Now, maybe 5% is too high in some cases, but not in all.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Along those lines, the Pride domain lets you reroll any 1 you roll on a saving throw once (if it comes up again, you keep it).So it's explicitly worse than the Luck Domain? Does Pride have an absolutely incredible spell list or something?

[Jack Mann]

The luck domain only works once per day. Pride domain works every time you roll a natural one on a save.

[Stevenson]

If a natural one is the only way in which you can fail, then the task in question is dramatically insignificant.

Well, what'd be more dramatic than a hero who just got beaten by a low-level spell, and knows it? That's gotta hurt the pride.

[Curmudgeon]

So it's explicitly worse than the Luck Domain? The Luck domain lets you reroll any roll, once a day -- without knowing first if that original roll is a failure. The Pride domain lets you reroll any 1 on a saving throw, once every saving throw. This seems better to me than the Luck domain granted power's limited utility.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

Well, there may not be a way to completely prevent it. But, most games I've been in, the DM house rules that a natural one is -10 instead of failing automatically.

[Matthew]

I rather like the idea of a second confirmation roll for this sort of thing, so when you roll a 1, but you actually had a -5 Chance of failing, you make a second roll to confirm the failure (say 6 or more confirms the failure).

[Kiroho]

Does anyone know of ways to prevent natural 1s on saving throws to be automatic failures?

Weight your d20. :smallbiggrin:

[reorith]

yes. get rid of natural 1 fail rules. they add nothing :(

[Matthew]

...except certainty of success?

[OzymandiasVolt]

Because a level 50 fighter should have a 1/20 chance of failing to hit the 1st level dirt farmer.

[Behold_the_Void]

Epic levels, as I recall, changes that up a bit, where if you roll a 20 you roll again and add that to your roll (rolling again with consecutive 20's) and if you roll a 1, you roll again and subtract the difference from 20 (rolling again with successive 1's).

[Matthew]

Indeed. the problem is the percentage chance, not the fact that failure exists. It should be more difficult to fail with a +40 Save Bonus than a +20, but it shouldn't move from 5% to 0% with a +20 to a +21.