apex outsiders

[arixe]

So question for the internet collective. Ive never played epic adventures my question is what do the deepest depths of the planes hold. What planar monstrosities have been found at the very core of these places. Just curious of other peoples experinces. Im not even looking for any thing published just peoples experinces and stories.

[Vhaidara]

So you're asking what the scariest thing you'll find on any given outer plan is, by RAW? The big fish that runs everything?

Gods. They're good xp-fodder for mid-high OP casters.

[arixe]

I guess more like fishing for insperation from other peoples adventures. Gods are interesting but most dms handle them poorly as in they can just zap you out of existence so gods are one epic encounter but something just shy of omnipotence like orcus or other such beings are more what im fishing for

[the_david]

Pseudonatural creature template + anything?

[nedz]

Anything from the Far Realms — though they are more Cherry-Canoe than Apex.

[arixe]

Interesting mostly looking for things that make balors and pit fiends shake in there boots

[Seto]

You could read the (veeeery long) Tales of Wyre (https://leagueofimaginaryheroes.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/sepulchraves-tales-of-wyre/) : it's a campaign that goes well into epic levels and features a lot of monsters fitting your description, both canon and homebrew.

In canon, off the top of my head, you've got Arch-outsiders (Archdevils, Demon Princes, Slaad Lords, Arch-Celestials), Infernals (Epic Level Handbook : it's the offspring of a God and a Fiend), Pseudonatural monstrosities of all stripes... A good tack on this is also monster advancement : what makes a Balor cower ? Why, a 35-HD Balor with epic weapons, of course.

[arixe]

Lol I guess a Balor is the top of the food chain of demons you can't quite imagine something more deadly

[Crake]

Demon Lords, Arch Devils, Celestial Paragons are pretty much top of the food chain. If you want to make them a bit more interesting, give them some class levels on top of what they already have using the gestalt rules (or just tack the class levels right ontop if you prefer). You can also do the same with creatures like balors, pit fiends and solar angels. Remember, balors can be advanced up to a whopping 60HD if you feel like it.

[Shoat]

Lol I guess a Balor is the top of the food chain of demons you can't quite imagine something more deadly

Yes, I can imagine something more deadly: A Player Character.

Technically, nothing stops an intelligent creature from also gaining class levels or using useful magical equipment that it'd have access to (there's nothing stupider than receiving loot from an enemy that wasn't used against you BY that enemy).

So if your party is not scared of any high-end challenge, remind them of their arrogance by giving other creatures class levels (on roughly the same optimization-level as the party, of course. You shouldn't throw any of the ridiculous character builds from these forums at normal parties).

[Bronk]

There are also:

Elder Evils, that can muck up an entire world/solar system/crystal sphere

Crazy planes that are really malevolent entities

Any of the crazy advance-able demons from the Fiend Folio, like Goristros that serve as bases for cities and lake sized Akiliths (no upper HD or size limit on either of those) or the Klurichir, who wrangle other demons to fight in the blood war.

[Inevitability]

Lol I guess a Balor is the top of the food chain of demons you can't quite imagine something more deadly

Klurichir says hi.

[Eldan]

And, you know, all the unique demons. Graz'zt. Demogorgon. Orcus. Pale Night. Pazuzu. Malcanthet. Even just Juiblex.

[Bronk]

Plus, if you expand beyond straight up 3.5 a bit, you can find all sorts of powerful planescape and spelljammer monsters, secrets and plots... You could find a bunch of discussions about those on Afroakuma's threads.

[dspeyer]

There are a bunch of statted arch-demons and arch-devils, in BoVD, Fiend Folio, and elsewhere (including a (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Moloch_%28Arch-Devil%29) few (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Geryon_%28Arch-Devil%29) where it's not entirely clear where their canonical versions are). Some of them don't seem to have been balanced against eachother, so use them carefully (either pick those that fit, or tweak the power levels, or adjust the world-building to match).

If you want to stay generic, class levels sound like a good plan. Remember epic feats. A balor 20th level wizard with quicken spell and 3x improved metamagic sounds suitably terrifying.

[atemu1234]

Plus, if you expand beyond straight up 3.5 a bit, you can find all sorts of powerful planescape and spelljammer monsters, secrets and plots... You could find a bunch of discussions about those on Afroakuma's threads.

And, it's not all that difficult to homebrew stats for things, using the original content as a guideline.

And spells from 1e and 2e have changed very little in 3e. Their conversions are usually just adjustment to suit the new nomenclature.

[Tiri]

Klurichir says hi.

It's been listed as having only CR 15 since the Fiendish Codex.

[Inevitability]

It's been listed as having only CR 15 since the Fiendish Codex.

It is? I could've sworn it was CR 25...

[Lhurgyof]

We once had an epic level psionic halfling fighting our party. He would teleport in, use his weird whip thing to drain some con, and teleport out.

This was in Dark Sun though, so scarier things are always around the corner.

[dspeyer]

It is? I could've sworn it was CR 25...

Realmshelp says it is (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Klurichir), but links to the 3.0 Fiend Folio.

The stats don't really justify the CR. It looks roughly like a CR 16 Horned Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) with 10 levels of sorcerer tacked on. Not really associated class levels.

[Vhaidara]

The stats don't really justify the CR. It looks roughly like a CR 16 Horned Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) with 10 levels of sorcerer tacked on. Not really associated class levels.

Did you perhaps miss the big list of at will CL 20 SLAs? That starts with Blasphemy? Or Vorpal Pincers? Or Summon Tanari for an automatic 2 Balors?