Artificer/Swordsage (Or Warblade)?

[Devigor]

My question for the playground, to elaborate: what is the best alotment of levels in each class and which variants would synergize most?

• 20th level full build, but currently 11th level.
• Assume that the levels of one will consistently be at least half those of the other (such that taking the 12th level of one would require 6 levels in the other).
• One or more prestige classes advancing one would count as levels of the class it advanced for determining the levels (5th level artificer/1st artificer prestige class requires having 3 levels of swordsage, for instance).
• Best synergy does not mean most optimized. I just meant "things that work together". Using artificer crafting to make some form of DM-approved house-ruled item that would increase effective initiator level would be a good example of synergy in the way I mean it.
• Any and all variants of those two classes and viable prestige classes are allowed.
• The DM is lenient and reasonable, though changes things fluidly to maintain game balance. None of these changes are bad or annoying, so far.

I was leaning towards the spell variant swordsage, armed with a reach weapon... But Iron Heart Surge is so sexy...

[Forrestfire]

I am inclined to suggest Artificer 8/Warblade 3, netting you 4th-level maneuvers where you are, and some incredibly strong possibilities. However, that doesn't work for your "must have half the level of the other class" rule. It's probably the strongest variation, though, thanks to the inherent synergy between the artificer's buffs and crafting and the warblade's general awesomeness. You'd even get Iron Heart Surge, if you went that way.

Awkwardly, that same rule about multiclassing causes you to get unfavorable initiator levels when you multiclass (artificer 4/warblade 1 gets you IL 3 and 2nd-level maneuvers, 8/1 gets you IL 5 and 3rds, etc). Is that a personal rule or a campaign one?

In any case, I'd recommend checking out the handbook on artificers in my sig. It might be useful for the character, however you decide to build.

[Devigor]

Oh, info, thanks a ton!

It's a campaign multiclassing rule, it also is used to prevent 1 or 2 level dips, due to the way my DM worded it (don't remember exactly how but we can't dip into stuff like that except for prestige classes).

I think I'm going to ask if I can bend his rule by making up those levels later, so I can start out as you suggested.

I love the guide, by the way, that'll be useful. You get a +1 Milk-Covered Cookie of Chocolate Chips! :biggrin:

[Petrocorus]

Oh, info, thanks a ton!

It's a campaign multiclassing rule, it also is used to prevent 1 or 2 level dips, due to the way my DM worded it (don't remember exactly how but we can't dip into stuff like that except for prestige classes).

I think I'm going to ask if I can bend his rule by making up those levels later, so I can start out as you suggested.


That would be better indeed. I second Forrestfire, look at the maneuvers and plan your multiclassing to get the best ones.
If it was not for your house rule, i would tell you to aim for Arty 16 / Warblade 4. But with it, try to negotiate Arty 14 / Warblade 6 so to have 6th level infusions and the Forge Ring feat. Arty 13 / Warblade 7 would be closer to match your rule and will give you an additional maneuver known.

Warblade is better than Swordsage, IMHO. More straightforward and easier, the Arty is already complex enough. And the Int synergy is good too. Wisdom is a dump stat for the Arty and you will already be MAD.

[Devigor]

True, true. Warblade is the better bet. I was mostly attracted to Swordsage by the "spells as maneuvers" thing. As is, I'll do Warblade, it's so much simpler, and as you mentioned, the reliance on Intelligence makes it more viable. Definitely grabbing IHS, and a few juicy Diamond Mind maneuvers. I think I'll go for Ex. Wpn. Prof.: Spiked Chain + Combat Exp. + Imp. Trip + Combat Ref. + Pwr. Attack + Imp. Bull Rush + Shock Trooper + Leap Attack. My DM gives everyone bunches of free bonues feats at the low-low-cost of in-game training time.

I seem to remember that somewhere is a feat or such that lets you treat a spiked chain as a light weapon, like even though it is still a two-handed weapon you could use it with some other obscure feats or special crud. If I'm not completely and totally mixed up then that will combine with Dancing/Raging Mongoose and Imp. Grapple quite nicely, though I'm sure my DM would create a feat for it if there isn't one already. He's great like that.

The RP of the character is that he is a full-conversion combat cyborg (Warforged) in a Rifts Earth (post-rifts) campaign, who deserted the Coalition for his friend (another member of the group) and uses a combo of vibroblade and AR-15. He crafted and enchanted both with arts he learned from time spent in a different world, which is why he counts as a D-Bee and is detected as one by the Coalition dog-mutants. Yeah. I love Rifts. Love the system, too, actually, just not found many others fond of it. It's less complicated than D&D 3.5, it just takes a lot of effort to record all of those skills. Much less complicated for casters, ironically.

Edit: Great news! My DM told me to just do a gestalt! :biggrin: "You're limited by your actions anyway, and I'll not allow any extra-actions-tricksy-shenanigans, even rules-legal ones, so you're fine, don't worry about it." I just got way too excited to kit out my cyborg.

[GreyBlack]

.... so it's a high fantasy cyber-punk-alyptic turducken? I like it!

I have nothing to really add outside of suggesting a PrC to help you out, but even there I'm not sure if Artificer stacks with arcane PrCs.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Warblade is better than Swordsage, IMHO. More straightforward and easier, the Arty is already complex enough. And the Int synergy is good too. Wisdom is a dump stat for the Arty and you will already be MAD.

In my experience swordsage tends to be the stronger of the two but a lot more work to tease out its full potential. I agree, though, that Warblade is better here ultimately. Full BAB beats multiclassing two 3/4 BAB classes and warblade's utility complements the breadth of options provided by the artificer nicely.

I highly recommend White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge. It will be difficult for items to replicate those.

[Devigor]

Yep. I am going for that. We have a half-orc samurai (DM gave it a makeover) that does insane damage adding his dexterity modifier AND charisma modifier to each dice of extra damage granted by his Iajutsu Focus (which the DM gives him on the first attack he makes in every round, regardless of flat-footed or what have you, he just rolls a new check each round and gets extra damage), and a blademaster (custom fighter-only prestige based off of the Wheel Of Time books), so WR Tactics and Lead The Charge (or whatever the name of that one is) are going to combo wonderfully with my allies. Yeah. We're insane. And our cleric plays as a heal-bot that uses Greater Turning uses often. Considering she is a Radiant Servant Of Pelor in an undead campaign, though, that's more than appropriate.

OH, and racial restrictions are removed from feats and classes, so long as it still makes sense after having done so.

So, my build right now:

Artificer 5/Unbound Scroll 5/Legacy Champion 1//Barbarian 1/Warblade 9/Eternal Blade 1

I am allowed the dip into Barbarian, WITHOUT the Spirit Lion Totem.

Concurrent Infusions + Spell Storing Item + Power Surge + Mnemonic Enhancer = Insane versatility and tons of things like Mage Armor and Feather Fall and such (my DM ruled using Mnemonic Enhancer on an item will store all of the spells into it) to slap on to my Composite Plating. Speaking of which...

+1 Whirlwind (Bind Elemental is lovely) Composite Plating is my Legacy Item, and also my Item Familiar. It is intelligent, and has been named "Jester". My character's name is Ptolemy (full name is "Architect's Children Full Conversion Cyborg Mk. IV, Unit Codename: Ptolemy").

"Jester" comes packaged with a light arquebus (AR-15) embedded component, for which wpn. focus grants access to Eternal Blade and Rapid Reload allows multiple shots (rp'd as a magazine). It has a critical threat range of 18-20 for x4 damage and critical confirmation doesn't exist in this campaign, just auto critical. Instead of a spiked chain (vibroblade), he'll be using a battlefist component (also part of Jester).

Besides that, he is using Schemas of certain spells in an Infinite Scrollcase and has a greater weapon augment crystal of life stealing in the arquebus.

The DM said my initiator level is 16, but I don't understand how... Anyone want to explain this to me? He picked my stances and maneuvers, btw.

Ptolemy has a mix of maneuvers, Iron Heart Surge, Sudden Leap, all the "I-save-by-being-focused" ones, etc. etc., that still work with an archery-almost-build. Blood In The Water and Pearl Of Black Doubt are his stances.