Blastifier Wand

[jabberwocky9]

To the point, what's the cost on a Wand that has Orb of Force, Twin Spell, Maximized? Also, I couldn't find or maybe I didn't think it's possible or allowable to have True Strike and Continuous added to it.

I currently made a Warforge Articifer and wanted to make an item attached to him using Wand Sheath.

I'm just having difficulty calculating and understanding what's permissible.

I figure the basic so far is: 750 x CL 10 x 4th level spell = 30,000 1/2 = 15,000, 1,200 XP and 30 days to make.

Why can't I grasp the concept of making items? Please, don't answer that but I thank you for any help!

[ZamielVanWeber]

To the point, what's the cost on a Wand that has Orb of Force, Twin Spell, Maximized? Also, I couldn't find or maybe I didn't think it's possible or allowable to have True Strike and Continuous added to it.
AFAIK you could not make a wand with any metamagics applied to Orb of Force because of capping at level 4.


I figure the basic so far is: 750 x CL 10 x 4th level spell = 30,000 1/2 = 15,000, 1,200 XP and 30 days to make.
This is correct for the wand you are looking at.


Why can't I grasp the concept of making items? Please, don't answer that but I thank you for any help!

I am going to answer it anyways. It is because DND is a very rules heavy system and can utterly unforgiving to people for no other reason than spite. I've been playing DND since before 3.0 came out and it still suprises me with its rules shenanigans.

[Alistaroc]

To make that sort of blasting object you'd need to make a scroll of it.

Pros:
You can have 6 of said spell on one scroll.
There are a TON of ways to make crafting scrolls cheaper.

Cons:
Without significant cost reduction, such scrolls gets insanely expensive very quickly.

A Scroll of 6 Twinned Maximized Orbs of Force would cost you 16,500 gold and 660 XP before any reductions. It'll also take you 16 days.
WITH reductions however, you can craft it for 2310 gold and 172 XP in 6 days. If you're optimizing this much, limit the use of metamagic.

[Draken]

To make that sort of blasting object you'd need to make a scroll of it.

Pros:
You can have 6 of said spell on one scroll.
There are a TON of ways to make crafting scrolls cheaper.

Cons:
Without significant cost reduction, such scrolls gets insanely expensive very quickly.

A Scroll of 6 Twinned Maximized Orbs of Force would cost you 16,500 gold and 660 XP before any reductions. It'll also take you 16 days.
WITH reductions however, you can craft it for 2310 gold and 172 XP in 6 days. If you're optimizing this much, limit the use of metamagic.

A Staff is also an alternative. That said, the proposed spell is level 11 and thus demands epic crafting feats.

[jabberwocky9]

AFAIK you could not make a wand with any metamagics applied to Orb of Force because of capping at level 4.

Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spell level to increase its effectiveness or quicken a spell to allow it to be used as a free action..." DMG p. 283


This is correct for the wand you are looking at.



I am going to answer it anyways. It is because DND is a very rules heavy system and can utterly unforgiving to people for no other reason than spite. I've been playing DND since before 3.0 came out and it still suprises me with its rules shenanigans.

Ha, ha...everything is broken.


To make that sort of blasting object you'd need to make a scroll of it.

Huh? Isn't what an Artificer do?
Item Creation (Ex): An artificer can create a magic item even if he does not have access to the spells that are prerequisites for the item. The artificer must make a successful Use Magic Device check (DC 20 + caster level) to emulate each spell normally required to create the item.

Pros:
You can have 6 of said spell on one scroll.
There are a TON of ways to make crafting scrolls cheaper.

Cons:
Without significant cost reduction, such scrolls gets insanely expensive very quickly.

A Scroll of 6 Twinned Maximized Orbs of Force would cost you 16,500 gold and 660 XP before any reductions. It'll also take you 16 days.
WITH reductions however, you can craft it for 2310 gold and 172 XP in 6 days. If you're optimizing this much, limit the use of metamagic.

[Werephilosopher]

I believe scepters, from Lost Empires of Faerun, work like wands that can hold spells of higher level. That's an option.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You can't make a wand with an effective spell level of higher than 4. That includes metamagic.
You also can't make it a scroll because Twinned Maximized Orb of Force would be a 11th level spell.
Scepters only go up to 7th level spells. Not only would you need to spend another feat on Craft Scepter, they also get none of the support wands do.
Also keep in mind that, if you want to use wands as your main contribution to combat, less is more. Those things get expensive, even the lower level ones. But what to do to stay effective?

What you can do is use your class features. Make a normal wand of Orb of Force. Then use the Metamagic Item infusion to add Twin Spell. If you still want to maximize it you can do that with your Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature by spending more charges.
It's effectively the same thing as spending more money to get the metamagic build into the wand, just cheaper and you can choose not to use the metamagic when you don't need it.

Next, use common sense. There's no reason to blow a maximized, twinned 4th level spell on a half-dead mook. Wizards and Sorcerers can afford overkill because their spells come back for free, but for you every bit of overkill comes straight out of your moneybag. It's much more effective using a wand of Grease or Entangle and then letting your party mop up while you shoot your (Bane) crossbow, because you get it free with an infusion. Save the Orb of Force wand for the big boss monsters.
If you absolutely have to use a blasting wand get a few cheaper ones for the cannon fodder. Blowing 4th level wands on everything is a fast way to get poor.

As for adding continuous True Strike, no.
First of all True Strike is discharged with one use, so making it continuous does exactly nothing.
That aside, custom items are subject to DM approval, with the general idea that any costs should be compared to similar items that already exist. You won't get a permanent +20 to attacks for 4,000gp with permanent True Strike, or any other way. Think about adding another 3 zeroes, because that's pretty clearly in the "epic effect" range.

If you have trouble hitting with ranged touch attacks do what other people do to get a higher to-hit. Get more Dex, get buffs, get the Sorcerer's Hand crossbow (A&EG). Hitting touch AC isn't that hard for most enemies.
Another method is to get the Enhance Item feat (ELH) to use your own Int for save DCs with your wands, then use wands that don't need a to-hit roll.

[phlidwsn]

The trick with artificer is you don't put all the metamagic in the wand, but apply it on the fly with artificer class features. So you start with a wand of Orb of X, and use Metamagic Spell Trigger to add metamagic via burning extra charges from the wand, and the Metamagic Item infusion to stack a second metamagic on the wand.

You can bake metamagic into the wand, as long as the level adjustment does not take it above 4th level, ie a wand of Maximized Magic Missile would cost the same to make as any other wand of a 4th level spell(1 from MM, plus 3 from Maximize)

If you haven't seen it yet, you want to read through the Unofficial Artificer's Handbook[pdf] (http://www.savevsdm.com/pdf/UnofficialArtificerGuidebook3.pdf).

[jabberwocky9]

You can't make a wand with an effective spell level of higher than 4. That includes metamagic.
You also can't make it a scroll because Twinned Maximized Orb of Force would be a 11th level spell.
Scepters only go up to 7th level spells. Not only would you need to spend another feat on Craft Scepter, they also get none of the support wands do.
Also keep in mind that, if you want to use wands as your main contribution to combat, less is more. Those things get expensive, even the lower level ones. But what to do to stay effective?

What you can do is use your class features. Make a normal wand of Orb of Force. Then use the Metamagic Item infusion to add Twin Spell. If you still want to maximize it you can do that with your Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature by spending more charges.
It's effectively the same thing as spending more money to get the metamagic build into the wand, just cheaper and you can choose not to use the metamagic when you don't need it.

Next, use common sense. There's no reason to blow a maximized, twinned 4th level spell on a half-dead mook. Wizards and Sorcerers can afford overkill because their spells come back for free, but for you every bit of overkill comes straight out of your moneybag. It's much more effective using a wand of Grease or Entangle and then letting your party mop up while you shoot your (Bane) crossbow, because you get it free with an infusion. Save the Orb of Force wand for the big boss monsters.
If you absolutely have to use a blasting wand get a few cheaper ones for the cannon fodder. Blowing 4th level wands on everything is a fast way to get poor.

As for adding continuous True Strike, no.
First of all True Strike is discharged with one use, so making it continuous does exactly nothing.
That aside, custom items are subject to DM approval, with the general idea that any costs should be compared to similar items that already exist. You won't get a permanent +20 to attacks for 4,000gp with permanent True Strike, or any other way. Think about adding another 3 zeroes, because that's pretty clearly in the "epic effect" range.

If you have trouble hitting with ranged touch attacks do what other people do to get a higher to-hit. Get more Dex, get buffs, get the Sorcerer's Hand crossbow (A&EG). Hitting touch AC isn't that hard for most enemies.
Another method is to get the Enhance Item feat (ELH) to use your own Int for save DCs with your wands, then use wands that don't need a to-hit roll.


The trick with artificer is you don't put all the metamagic in the wand, but apply it on the fly with artificer class features. So you start with a wand of Orb of X, and use Metamagic Spell Trigger to add metamagic via burning extra charges from the wand, and the Metamagic Item infusion to stack a second metamagic on the wand.

You can bake metamagic into the wand, as long as the level adjustment does not take it above 4th level, ie a wand of Maximized Magic Missile would cost the same to make as any other wand of a 4th level spell(1 from MM, plus 3 from Maximize)

If you haven't seen it yet, you want to read through the Unofficial Artificer's Handbook[pdf] (http://www.savevsdm.com/pdf/UnofficialArtificerGuidebook3.pdf).
This is exactly what I've been looking for. Clearly concise and common sense. Thanks everyone.

[Tvtyrant]

You can make a scepter, which goes up to 7th level spells. Metamagic effects can be sneaked in more easily.

[Drynwyn]

The fastest way to get this EFFECT would be to make a completely NORMAL wand of Orb of Force, and to be a 7th level artificer. Using your Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature, if you have Twin Spell and Maximize Spell, you can then expend 8 charges from that wand to produce a Twinned Maximized Orb of Force.

(Metmagic Spell Trigger is basically a "I win expensively" button, though.)

[atemu1234]

You can make a scepter, which goes up to 7th level spells. Metamagic effects can be sneaked in more easily.

I had a player who used one for Quickened Lightning Bolt. It was a fun time.

[phlidwsn]

The fastest way to get this EFFECT would be to make a completely NORMAL wand of Orb of Force, and to be a 7th level artificer. Using your Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature, if you have Twin Spell and Maximize Spell, you can then expend 8 charges from that wand to produce a Twinned Maximized Orb of Force.

(Metmagic Spell Trigger is basically a "I win expensively" button, though.)

Note that Spell Trigger was clarified by the authors to allow only a single application, as opposed to stacking two or more metamagics, so you may wish to check with your DM before relying on this method.

You can still stack two metamagics by using Spell Trigger and the appropriate infusion to get one each.

[Drynwyn]

Note that Spell Trigger was clarified by the authors to allow only a single application, as opposed to stacking two or more metamagics, so you may wish to check with your DM before relying on this method.

You can still stack two metamagics by using Spell Trigger and the appropriate infusion to get one each.

For bonus book-throwing points, use the Action Surge spell to do this without spending any charges from your wand.

[Andezzar]

You can't make a wand with an effective spell level of higher than 4. That includes metamagic.
You also can't make it a scroll because Twinned Maximized Orb of Force would be a 11th level spell.
Scepters only go up to 7th level spells.Where does it say that wands are restricted by effective spell level? Most metamagics explicitly state that they do not change the spell level (effective or otherwise) they just need to be prepared and/or cast from a higher level slot.
Secondly, the Craft Wand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWand) feat only mentions 4th level spells as a restriction. Despite metamagics being available in the same book (PHB) or online source (SRD) the feat does not forbid 4th level or lower spells that need to be cast from a higher level slot.

For scrolls it is even more explicit:

You can create a scroll of any spell that you know.

A spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned and can prepare.So if a caster can prepare a Twinned Maximized Orb of Force, it is a known spell for him.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Where does it say that wands are restricted by effective spell level? Most metamagics explicitly state that they do not change the spell level (effective or otherwise) they just need to be prepared and/or cast from a higher level slot.
Secondly, the Craft Wand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWand) feat only mentions 4th level spells as a restriction. Despite metamagics being available in the same book (PHB) or online source (SRD) the feat does not forbid 4th level or lower spells that need to be cast from a higher level slot.

For scrolls it is even more explicit:

So if a caster can prepare a Twinned Maximized Orb of Force, it is a known spell for him.

It's one of the more basic rules of item crafting, though i'll admit that it's not where you'd expect it to be when looking it up (in the metamagic or item creation section). It's in the feat section instead.

Magic Items and Metamagic Spells

With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell.

[Andezzar]

As I said before, maximize spell, twinned spell etc. do not change the spell's level. So again, a twinned maximized orb of force is a 4th level spell, even though it needs to be prepared in a 11th level spell slot (before metamagic reducers).

In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell

Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies.

[sleepyphoenixx]

As I said before, maximize spell, twinned spell etc. do not change the spell's level. So again, a twinned maximized orb of force is a 4th level spell, even though it needs to be prepared in a 11th level spell slot (before metamagic reducers).

Blame the designers for using "slot" and "level" interchangeably. The meaning should be clear from reading the relevant section on metamagic feats.
If you want to argue with your DM that, by strict RAW ruleslawyering, the text i quoted does nothing, feel free. I'm not going to hunt through the books to look for a clearer wording.

I don't care one way or another, but i rather doubt it's going to help the OP because the commonly accepted interpretation is that crafting uses the adjusted spell level.
And trying to get your DM to sign off on free metamagic for wands and scrolls based on fiddly language in a game that's known for unclear rules descriptions? That looks like it's doomed to failure to me.

[Andezzar]

I don't care either way as well. I just wanted to mention that as written it is clear that most metamagic feats can be used. Whether that was also the intention of the writers and they wanted to account for heighten spell and similar feats or if they used spell level wrongly is anyone's guess.

I just wanted to put it out there, that the rules don't conform to many people's expectations. What the OP and his DM do with that information is up to them. Don't forget, what the PCs can do the DM can do tenfold.

[Alistaroc]

You also can't make it a scroll because Twinned Maximized Orb of Force would be a 11th level spell.
Not if you're an Artificer. You just have to make a sufficiently high Use Magic Device check to emulate the spell, equaling 20 + Caster Level. Call it Caster Level 25, that means you have to make a DC 45 UMD check, not a difficult task, especially considering you could simply scribe a scroll of Divine Insight or Guidance of the Avatar beforehand. Hell, since the two stack, you could make both and fail only on a natural one. And if you're using it a lot, why not make yourself an at-will item for a +35 on ALL SKILLS AT WILL.

I love Artificer shenanigans. :smallbiggrin:

[sleepyphoenixx]

Not if you're an Artificer. You just have to make a sufficiently high Use Magic Device check to emulate the spell, equaling 20 + Caster Level. Call it Caster Level 25, that means you have to make a DC 45 UMD check, not a difficult task, especially considering you could simply scribe a scroll of Divine Insight or Guidance of the Avatar beforehand. Hell, since the two stack, you could make both and fail only on a natural one. And if you're using it a lot, why not make yourself an at-will item for a +35 on ALL SKILLS AT WILL.

I love Artificer shenanigans. :smallbiggrin:

To make a scroll with an effective spell level higher than 9 you need the Scribe Epic Scroll feat. There's absolutely no ambiguity there. Take a look at the rules for epic scrolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/scrolls.htm) for the clear distinction between actual spell level and the level of the scroll, which includes metamagic adjustment.

So yeah, Artificer shenanigans are great. But they're broken enough if you stay within the rules. You'd also have to pay for that really high level scroll, and an effective spell level of 11 isn't exactly on the cheap side, especially not for a one-shot single target blasting spell.