If it has stats, we can kill it: Adaptive Evolution [Archive]

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Heliomance

2015-11-23, 06:08 AM

Punchbag is a level 1 commoner. He has 10 in every stat. He has 4 HP. He is average in every way, save for one:

Whenever Punchbag dies (or otherwise becomes permanently incapacitated), all other versions of Punchbag in every alternate reality become immune to whatever killed Punchbag. I will be interpreting this broadly - if you kill him with a Fireball, he will become immune to all energy damage.

How many Punchbags can you kill?

Deaths so far: 49

Immunities

Ability damage
Bleeding
Energy damage
Physical damage
Damage
Positive energy
Force effects
Energy drain
Ability drain
Does not require air/water/food
Death effects
Aging
Being eaten
No longer reliant on biological processes
Silver cord cannot be cut
If Punchbag's mind is transferred to a different body, the new body gains all immunities
Never considered willing
Personal Truename holds no power over Punchbag
All immunities apply retroactively
Mind-affecting effects
Transformations
Effects that separate soul from body directly
Constant Freedom of Movement
Dislocation from the time stream
Can pass through solid objects
Always acts according to the base time trait of the Prime Material
If cast adrift in the planes, automatically returns home. Can trigger this at will
Transmutation effects
Entering Sigil
Sudden Massive Existence Failure
Teleportation effects
Does not need a head to survive
Poison
Necromancy effects
If magically contained within something that is then destroyed, appears unharmed
Visual distractions, gaze attacks, etc
Taint
Mystical bindings
Attempts to control his actions
Salient Divine Abilities
Planar hazards
Farm is immune to planar shenanigans and anything making it a hostile place
Acausal
Negation of ability to interact with the world

Missed Opportunities

Assorted obscure damage types
Disease that doesn't rely on ability damage

Uncle Pine

2015-11-23, 06:18 AM

Questions:
Q1- If Punchbag is dealt 14 damage, does he become immune to damage, death by damage or do his maximum hp go up to 5?
Q2- If Punchbag is dealt 5 damage and bleeds to death, does he become immune to damage, death by damage and/or bleeding?
Q3- If Punchbag is killed by a spell or power, does he become immune to the spell or power that killed him or to its effect (i.e. damage, death effects)
Q4- If Punchbag is killed with a poison, does he become immune to that poison, every poison or ability damage?

Deaths:
1) DM fiat.

khadgar567

2015-11-23, 06:19 AM

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 06:24 AM

Questions:
Q1- If Punchbag is dealt 14 damage, does he become immune to damage, death by damage or do his maximum hp go up to 5?
Immune to whatever broad category of damage killed him (physical damage, energy damage, etc).

Q2- If Punchbag is dealt 5 damage and bleeds to death, does he become immune to damage, death by damage and/or bleeding?
Hmm... probably to bleeding.

Q3- If Punchbag is killed by a spell or power, does he become immune to the spell or power that killed him or to its effect (i.e. damage, death effects)
Its effect, interpreted reasonably broadly

Q4- If Punchbag is killed with a poison, does he become immune to that poison, every poison or ability damage?
I'm going to say ability damage, assuming that's what killed him. If you can find a poison that has Death as an effect, that would make him immune to poison.

Deaths:
1) DM fiat.
Hahaha nice try.

Novawurmson

2015-11-23, 06:42 AM

Ok, so

1 - DM fiat.
2 - Con damage.
3 - Bleed damage.
4-9 - Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid, Force, Sonic damage.
10 - Negative energy damage.
11 - Negative levels.
12 - The positive energy plane.
13 - Con drain.
14 - Bludgeoning damage.
15 - Slashing damage.
16 - Piercing damage.
17 - Falling damage (type not specified)
18 - Suffocation/drowning.
19 - Starvation and thirst.
20 - Nonlethal damage.
Edit: 21 - Death effects.

Is there a way to kill him by massive damage? Probably not.

Khedrac

2015-11-23, 06:53 AM

22: Con Drain (it's not the same thing as Con Damage)
23: Force Damage
There are quite a few sources of untyped damage (e.g. eldritch blast) so I think the next one needs to be very broad:
24: Hit Point Damage (other)
25: Severing of Silver Cord

What else can we do with magic - where the initial spell does not kill (e.g. flesh to stone) but one can then do things that render the victim dead?
I think one is Magic Jar him , destroy the body then destroy the magic jar gem...

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 06:54 AM

time travel and mind rape here is your answer for dooms day
you dont mind rape him you mind rape the moron created him

Are you sure you want to make Punchbag acausal this early on?

Ok, so

1 - DM fiat.
Doesn't count.

2 - Con damage.
Deaths: 1. Punchbag is now immune to ability damage.

3 - Bleed damage.
Deaths: 2. Punchbag is now immune to bleeding.

4-9 - Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid, Force, Sonic damage.
10 - Negative energy damage.
Deaths: 4. Punchbag is now immune to energy damage. Punchbag now ignores Force effects.

11 - Negative levels.
Deaths: 5. Punchbag is now immune to energy drain.

12 - The positive energy plane.
Deaths: 6. Punchbag is now immune to positive energy.

13 - Con drain.
Deaths: 7. Punchbag is now immune to ability drain.

14 - Bludgeoning damage.
15 - Slashing damage.
16 - Piercing damage.
17 - Falling damage (type not specified)
Deaths: 8. Punchbag is now immune to physical damage.

18 - Suffocation/drowning.
Deaths: 9. Punchbag no longer requires air.

19 - Starvation and thirst.
Deaths: 11. Punchbag no longer needs sustenance. Punchbag no longer needs water (This includes immunity to dessication damage).

20 - Nonlethal damage.
Punchbag is already immune to physical damage. Also that can't kill him anyway.

Edit: 21 - Death effects.
Deaths: 12. Punchbag is now immune to Death effects.

Is there a way to kill him by massive damage? Probably not.

Probably not indeed, as he only has 4HP.

22: Con Drain (it's not the same thing as Con Damage)
23: Force Damage
Punchbag is already immune to these

There are quite a few sources of untyped damage (e.g. eldritch blast) so I think the next one needs to be very broad:
24: Hit Point Damage (other)
Deaths: 13. Punchbag is now immune to hit point damage.

25: Severing of Silver Cord
Punchbag is a commoner. He has no means of Astral Projection.

Killer Angel

2015-11-23, 07:06 AM

n. ??: Send Punchbag to a plane with accelerated time. Watch him die for old age in few minutes.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 07:08 AM

Send Punchbag to a plane with accelerated time. Watch him die for old age in few minutes.

Deaths: 14. Punchbag is now immune to aging.

OldTrees1

2015-11-23, 07:14 AM

Bag of Devouring.

Bag of Devouring over the entire space(to skip the grapple check)?

Is he immune to damage or immune to death by damage? If the later then:
Cast delay death.
Deal damage.
Dismiss delay death.
Dies to delay death's effect rather than to the damage.

Sredni Vashtar

2015-11-23, 07:21 AM

Punchbag is a commoner. He has no means of Astral Projection.

Take him with you and then sever his silver cord. Now he's immune to being killed by severing his silver cord AND immune to being killed by betrayal.

Have we poisoned him yet? How about disease? Or is it too late for that now?

Evolved Shrimp

2015-11-23, 07:21 AM

We can cause Punchbag to die without even killing him, by transporting him to a plane with greatly accelerated time and let him die naturally of old age. (Edit: swordsaged…)

After that, Punchbag can no longer die of old age, but is not immune to the effects of aging – which continues for centuries, millennia, eons, … Eventually, Punchbag will still live but will have dispersed evenly across the multiverse.

We can kill Punchbag by wishing for his heart to simply stop beating.

Or we can wish for his blood to just disappear.

We can infect Punchbag with a deadly disease.

Novawurmson

2015-11-23, 07:33 AM

Magic jar the commoner, move the magic jar out of range, and wait for the spell to end.

Edit: swordsaged
- - - - - -

Disease and poison are unlikely to work, as he's immune to ability damage.

- - - - - -

I'd like to suggest that since nonlethal damage eventually becomes lethal damage, it could be something the commoner becomes immune to.

Also, falling damage is not called out as physical damage, bludgeoning damage, or any other type of damage:

Falling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm)
Falling Damage
The basic rule is simple: 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6.

Of course, by now, he's immune to hit point damage, so the point for both is potentially moot.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 07:37 AM

Bag of Devouring.

Bag of Devouring over the entire space(to skip the grapple check)?
Deaths: 15. Punchbag has acquired a truly foul taste. No creature in existence is prepared to eat him.

Is he immune to damage or immune to death by damage? If the later then:
Cast delay death.
Deal damage.
Dismiss delay death.
Dies to delay death's effect rather than to the damage.
Punchbag is immune to damage.

Take him with you and then sever his silver cord. Now he's immune to being killed by severing his silver cord AND immune to being killed by betrayal.

Have we poisoned him yet? How about disease? Or is it too late for that now?
Punchbag is not willing to go an an Astral adventure with you. He's needed on the farm.

Punchbag is currently vulnerable to both poison and disease, but not to ability damage.

We can cause Punchbag to die without even killing him, by transporting him to a plane with greatly accelerated time and let him die naturally of old age. (Edit: swordsaged…)

After that, Punchbag can no longer die of old age, but is not immune to the effects of aging – which continues for centuries, millennia, eons, … Eventually, Punchbag will still live but will have dispersed evenly across the multiverse.
Punchbag is immune to aging.

We can kill Punchbag by wishing for his heart to simply stop beating.

Or we can wish for his blood to just disappear.

We can infect Punchbag with a deadly disease.

Deaths 16. Punchbag is no longer reliant on biological processes to survive.

Novawurmson

2015-11-23, 07:45 AM

Deaths 16. Punchbag is no longer reliant on biological processes to survive.

So at this point, we're basically down to things that should be death effects, but aren't, or methods of destroying his soul?

Uncle Pine

2015-11-23, 07:47 AM

Is Punchbag already immune to Painless Death?

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 07:52 AM

So at this point, we're basically down to things that should be death effects, but aren't, or methods of destroying his soul?

Not really - think of that as him now more-or-less being a construct. Also, permanent incapacitation counts as a death - no-one's gone that route yet.

Is Punchbag already immune to Painless Death?

Punchbag is not willing to die.

Mr Adventurer

2015-11-23, 07:55 AM

Punchbag is not willing to go an an Astral adventure with you. He's needed on the farm.

A Diplomacy check says otherwise :).

Eura

2015-11-23, 07:55 AM

Does effective death count like having his mind destroyed?

Also Mind swap with Punching bag and kill him with your new found invulnerabilities (might take a while since punching bag's new body has a bit of hp at that point).

Uncle Pine

2015-11-23, 07:58 AM

Punchbag is not willing to die.
Magic Jar to possess Punchbag's body. Standard action to cast Painless Death on yourself.

Are Punchbag's immunities Ex, Sup or natural qualities?

Evolved Shrimp

2015-11-23, 08:03 AM

We can repeat this cycle endlessly in at least two ways:

If at least one of Punchbags immunities is supernatural, we can relieve him of it using the Ability Rip spell from Serpent Kingdoms. If not, we can wish for the immunity to be removed or at least suspended.
We can travel back in time to before the immunity applied.

In either case, Punchbag is vulnerable to something that has killed him before. (Or will have killed him, in the second case.)

khadgar567

2015-11-23, 08:04 AM

Magic Jar to possess Punchbag's body. Standard action to cast Painless Death on yourself.

Are Punchbag's immunities Ex, Sup or natural qualities?
if you posses him might well as true speak unname him so there is one way to kill him

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 08:05 AM

A Diplomacy check says otherwise :).

Deaths: 17. Punchbag's silver cord can no longer be cut.

Does effective death count like having his mind destroyed?
It does, yes.

Also Mind swap with Punching bag and kill him with your new found invulnerabilities (might take a while since punching bag's new body has a bit of hp at that point).

Deaths: 18. Whenever Punchbag's mind is transferred to a different body by any means, the new body gains the benefit of Punchbag's immunities for the duration of the switch.

Mr Adventurer

2015-11-23, 08:05 AM

Seto

2015-11-23, 08:13 AM

Punchbag is currently vulnerable to both poison and disease, but not to ability damage.

Pit Fiend venom (Dungeonscape) has death as a secondary effect.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 08:14 AM

Magic Jar to possess Punchbag's body. Standard action to cast Painless Death on yourself.

Are Punchbag's immunities Ex, Sup or natural qualities?
Deaths: 19. Punchbag is now immune to... I can't actually think of a category that falls into short of the entire school of Necromancy, actually. Annoying. Punchbag is now immune to Painless Death.
EDIT: Punchbag becomes highly suspicious. Punchbag is never considered a willing target, no matter what measures are taken.

The immunities are natural qualities.

We can repeat this cycle endlessly in at least two ways:

If at least one of Punchbags immunities is supernatural, we can relieve him of it using the Ability Rip spell from Serpent Kingdoms. If not, we can wish for the immunity to be removed or at least suspended.
We can travel back in time to before the immunity applied.

In either case, Punchbag is vulnerable to something that has killed him before. (Or will have killed him, in the second case.)
The immunities are not supernatural. That is not within the safe limits of Wish. You fail to remove the immunities.

Deaths: 19. You kill him using one of the previously mentioned methods. He is not vulnerable to it when it is tried again the original time. Number of deaths remains unchanged. Also, all immunities now apply retroactively.

if you posses him might well as true speak unname him so there is one way to kill him

Deaths: 20. Punchbag's Personal Truename no longer holds any power over him.

Seto

2015-11-23, 08:22 AM

Cast Phantasmal Killer and watch Punchbag die from fear.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 08:23 AM

Cast Phantasmal Killer and watch Punchbag die from fear.

Wow, that took this long? Deaths: 21. Punchbag is now immune to mind-affecting effects.

khadgar567

2015-11-23, 08:26 AM

Wow, that took this long? Deaths: 21. Punchbag is now immune to mind-affecting effects.
gift him a parrot that chants asmodeus's true name constanly here you go kill no 22

Jack_Simth

2015-11-23, 08:27 AM

Flesh to Salt
Flesh to Ice
Flesh to Stone
Trap the Soul
Shades(Trap the Soul)

Seto

2015-11-23, 08:28 AM

Did you miss my earlier post on Pit Fiend venom, or does "no longer reliant on biological processes" cover it ?

Also, submit him to Imprisonment, I guess that counts as permanent incapacitation (unless he's got powerful Wizard friends)

Uncle Pine

2015-11-23, 08:30 AM

Wow, that took this long?
We're creative killers.

Also, permanent incapacitation counts as a death
Punchbag meets Quintessence pool.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 08:36 AM

gift him a parrot that chants asmodeus's true name constanly here you go kill no 22
...what?

Flesh to Salt
Flesh to Ice
Flesh to Stone
Deaths: 22. Punchbag is now immune to all attempts to change his form.

Trap the Soul
Shades(Trap the Soul)
Deaths: 23. Punchbag is now immune to all attempts to separate his soul from his body directly.

Did you miss my earlier post on Pit Fiend venom, or does "no longer reliant on biological processes" cover it ?

Also, submit him to Imprisonment, I guess that counts as permanent incapacitation (unless he's got powerful Wizard friends)
Sadly it's covered under that clause - hence the Poisons entry under Missed Opportunities in the OP.

Deaths: 24. Punchbag now has constant Freedom of Movement.

We're creative killers.

Punchbag meets Quintessence pool.

Deaths: 25. Punchbag is now immune to attempts to dislocate him from the time stream.

khadgar567

2015-11-23, 08:38 AM

We're creative killers.

Punchbag meets Quintessence pool.
still asmodeus is best way to get rid of him at least big A gets power boost he needs or next way to new edition

Rubik

2015-11-23, 08:38 AM

"Death" X: Transmute Rock to Mud under him, followed by a Quickened Transmute Mud to Rock.

"Death" X+1: Surround him in Permanencied Forcewalls on all sides underground where nobody can see, then collapse the tunnel in.

"Death" X+2: Immerse him in a pool of quintessence and bury him in TRtM and TMtR combo above.

"Death" X+3: Open a Gate to a demiplane where time moves so slowly that the entire multiverse will die off before his next round comes up and push him in.

"Death" X+4: Cast a Sanctum Shades for a Sanctum Genesis. Call him to that plane via Planar Binding. Plane Shift out and Disjunction the demiplane.

khadgar567

2015-11-23, 08:42 AM

"Death" X+4: Cast a Sanctum Shades for a Sanctum Genesis. Call him to that plane via Planar Binding. Plane Shift out and Disjunction the demiplane.
that's some optimized ways to kill commoner

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 08:48 AM

"Death" X: Transmute Rock to Mud under him, followed by a Quickened Transmute Mud to Rock.
Deaths: 26. Punchbag can now pass through solid objects at will.

"Death" X+1: Surround him in Permanencied Forcewalls on all sides underground where nobody can see, then collapse the tunnel in.

"Death" X+2: Immerse him in a pool of quintessence and bury him in TRtM and TMtR combo above.
Punchbag is already immune to Force effects and quintessence. He escapes easily.

"Death" X+3: Open a Gate to a demiplane where time moves so slowly that the entire multiverse will die off before his next round comes up and push him in.
Deaths: 27. Punchbag now always acts according to the time trait of the Prime Material Plane, regardless of the time trait of the plane he happens to be on.

"Death" X+4: Cast a Sanctum Shades for a Sanctum Genesis. Call him to that plane via Planar Binding. Plane Shift out and Disjunction the demiplane.
Deaths: 28. If cast adrift in the planes, Punchbag automatically appears back at his farm.

Eura

2015-11-23, 08:50 AM

Punching Bag has an Existential crisis and goes on adventuring as "puncher of bags". When he returns to his farm years later he realizes punching bag doesn't exist inside him anymore.

Rubik

2015-11-23, 08:53 AM

Rubik

2015-11-23, 08:59 AM

Telonius

2015-11-23, 09:14 AM

A character with high charisma and maxed-out social skills approaches him with a pamphlet. "Have you given any thought to worshiping a new Deity? She lives in Sigil..."

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 09:14 AM

"Death" Y: Diplomacy or Bluff him into accepting a friendly casting of a spell. Manifest the Fusion power on him and immediately kill yourself in a way he's not immune to in order to come back in a few days with all of his immunities and abilities. He'll be there in the back of your head but unable to escape.
Punchbag is never considered willing, regardless of any measures taken.

"Death" Y+1: Mirror of opposition to fight him forever.

"Death" Y+2: Ice Assassin to fight him forever.

"Death" Y+3: Aleax to fight him forever.
Punchbag gets on with working his farm, seriously irritated at his copies' attempts to fight him. The farm drops in productivity as he has to keep pushing them out of the way of the plough.

"Death" Y+4: Destroy everything and everyone he loves. Get him to voluntarily lower his immunities and commit suicide.
Punchbag is no more capable of lowering his immunities than a fire elemental is of deciding to let fire hurt it.

"Death" Y+5: Cast Rockburst on the planet's crust. Destroy the planet. Just about everything but him will die, and he'll be all alone. Forever.

"Death" Y+6: Cast Rockburst on the Elemental Plane of Earth. The very idea of "earth" will be destroyed, sending the entire Great Wheel spinning into oblivion and destroying everything that is.

"Death" Y+7: Open a portal to the Far Realm and unleash Cthulu's nastier older brother to devour all of reality.
...okay, destroying the entirety of existence so doesn't count as a win.

"Death" Y+8: Sidle up to him and combine portable hole with bag of holding to tear a hole in space-time to suck him in.

"Death" Y+9: Break a staff of the archmagi near him so he's sucked into the resulting vortex.

"Death" Y+10: Toss him into a bag of holding. Puncture it.
If cast adrift in the planes, Punchbag automatically appears back at his farm.

"Death" Y+11: Procure a spellblade attuned to Transcend Mortality. Cast it on yourself. Redirect it at him.
Eesh, that's a tricky one, due to that line at the end. Deaths: 29. Punchbag's form becomes inviolate. He is now immune to all Transmutation effects.

"Death" Y+12: Do the same for one of the spells in the XPH that give you the [psionic] subtype. Use the annulus on him.

I think the immunity to Transmutation stops you from adding the [psionic] subtype.

khadgar567

2015-11-23, 09:14 AM

atemu1234

2015-11-23, 09:16 AM

avr

2015-11-23, 09:28 AM

Shove Punchbag into a sphere of annihilation. I'm not sure his immunity to being cast adrift on the planes is quite the same as being cast out of the multiverse entirely.

Get a planar shepherd of the positive energy plane to summon a planar bubble when Punchbag is near, and have her grapple him to stop him leaving (requires an Eberron PrC and a standard plane, so may not be possible, true.)

Rubik

2015-11-23, 09:29 AM

Fusion, gaining immunities, choosing to give up those immunities (one can choose to lower ones immunity and resistance by RAW, n'cest pas?), then committing suicide.

Is he now immune to fusion, or to giving up his immunities?He is apparently immune to that rule without actually having died to it. And apparently it's about winning, not about killing him, so destroying all of reality doesn't count even if it does kill him.

Goalpost-moving, much, Heliomance?

Shove Punchbag into a sphere of annihilation. I'm not sure his immunity to being cast adrift on the planes is quite the same as being cast out of the multiverse entirely.I tried already. Didn't work.

Decerebrate him.

Make his head explode via Cranial Deluge.

Novawurmson

2015-11-23, 09:34 AM

Has anyone put him to sleep? Yeah, he's never willing, but sleeping creatures are always willing.

Rubik

2015-11-23, 09:36 AM

Has anyone put him to sleep? Yeah, he's never willing, but sleeping creatures are always willing.That's creepy, man.

Also, since his abilities are natural, use Metamorphosis via a spellblade. Then kill him. Natural abilities go away when Metamorphosis'd.

Crake

2015-11-23, 09:37 AM

Does no longer relying on bodily functions mean he's immune to having his head removed via a vorpal weapon? I'd say no, since vampires are undead and technically have the same immunity, but still die from having their head removed.

Also is he immune to spheres of annihilation yet? Can one be immune to spheres of annihilation?

He's immune to having his soul separated from his body, but he's not immune to being possessed. Sure it doesn't count as a death, but the possessing being can transform his body for themselves (which is not technically a transmutation), essentially trapping him forever as an observer to the possessing being, and the possessing being now has a body immune to all sorts of things. If the possessed being is ever exorcised, there's a save or die system shock from the transformation, which he's not immune to yet. (This is using the fiend possessing rules from fiendish codex I, or the fiend of possession class from fiend folio, though creatures like ghosts and the like can still do similar things).

Is he immune to black holes?

Is he immune to suns?

Is he immune to the effects of a vacuum? (Technically kill you from suffocation, but if you fail a constitution save you permanently fall unconscious, not sure if this counts as a bodily function since it's happening due to your blood boiling)

Has anyone put him to sleep? Yeah, he's never willing, but sleeping creatures are always willing.

I'd assume the "is never willing" clause applies there.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 09:44 AM

He is apparently immune to that rule without actually having died to it. And apparently it's about winning, not about killing him, so destroying all of reality doesn't count even if it does kill him.

Goalpost-moving, much, Heliomance?

I tried already. Didn't work.

I'm not aware of any rule allowing you to lower immunities. Pretty sure a construct can't choose to need to breathe. It makes no sense.

Destroying the planet he's standing on doesn't kill him by this point, and removing everything except him from existence doesn't really count as incapacitating him.

I've not responded to any Sphere of Annihilation attempts yet, not sure what you're talking about there.

Tuvarkz

2015-11-23, 09:45 AM

Is PF content allowed? Level 20 Inquisitor True Judgement has a not-death effect Save or Die based on the attack hitting.

Rubik

2015-11-23, 09:45 AM

Punchbag gets on with working his farm, seriously irritated at his copies' attempts to fight him. The farm drops in productivity as he has to keep pushing them out of the way of the plough.Aleaxes have Shapechange. It'll find some way to kill him if it keeps trying (and it will).

Punchbag is no more capable of lowering his immunities than a fire elemental is of deciding to let fire hurt it.Anyone can lower its immunities, I believe, unless that's on his roster of immunities?

And a fire elemental can be harmed by fire. Look at Searing Spell.

...okay, destroying the entirety of existence so doesn't count as a win.It's not about "winning." It's about "killing Punchbag." Destroying everything there is fulfills that requirement.

If cast adrift in the planes, Punchbag automatically appears back at his farm.Some of those are outside the planar arrangement altogether, so I don't think that counts.

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 09:53 AM

Turn him into divine energy via Secure Corpse. Time travel/ plane shift, if necessary.

Remove his arms and legs, and place a blindfold, earmuffs, and smelling salts on him, and set the local temperature to a constant. Telepathically play [insert annoying pop culture song here; I recommend "They're Coming to Take me Away, Ha Ha"] in his mind for eternity.

Use a repeating trap of quickened ocular Time Stop on him.

(Edit)Use a repeating trap of quickened Time Stop on yourself. Whose POV does defeating Punchbag count from? If you wait until the end of the universe with him, does that count as a win?
Possess him and attempt to use Dark Speech without the feat.
Taint the farm and wait for his corruption to exceed max.
Taint the farm and wait for his depravity to exceed max.
Wish: emulate Bestow Curse with no minimum of 1 him to set his [ability score] to 0.
Give him the ritual to turn him into a necropolitan, then use a Greater Turning on him.

torrasque666

2015-11-23, 10:05 AM

And a fire elemental can be harmed by fire. Look at Searing Spell.

That's a specific rule overcoming the general rule. Also, only spell resistance can be willingly lowered. The only thing that makes a reference to spell resistance is spell immunity, a specific ability. Natural Immunities cannot be willingly lowered, as they do not have an allowance for that.

Heliomance

2015-11-23, 10:16 AM

"Death" Y+13: Cast Antimagic Field near him to suppress his (obviously Supernatural) adaptive evolution ability. Then kill him.

"Death" Y+14: Cast Ability Rip on him and remove his (obviously Supernatural) adaptive evolution ability. Then kill him.
It's not Supernatural.

"Death" Y+15: Research epic spell to instantaneously [permanently] stop time on the Material Plane. He now is stopped no matter where he is, forever.
Ouch. Using his own immunities against him. Deaths: 30. Punchbag now acts according to the base time trait of the Prime Material Plane, regardless of any changes made to that trait.

"Death" Y+16: Send his farm to the Positive Energy Plane and try to send him to the Negative Energy Plane, so he dies from negative levels. Then when his soul tries to go to wherever, he immediately reappears at his farm, then his soul explodes from too much healing, and he keeps reappearing at his farm every time he tries to escape.
Punchbag is immune to both energy drain and positive energy. Unless I'm missing something, this just doesn't work.

A character with high charisma and maxed-out social skills approaches him with a pamphlet. "Have you given any thought to worshiping a new Deity? She lives in Sigil..."
...
Deaths: 31. No Punchbag will ever set foot in Sigil again. Also I hate you.

Fusion, gaining immunities, choosing to give up those immunities (one can choose to lower ones immunity and resistance by RAW, n'cest pas?), then committing suicide.

Is he now immune to fusion, or to giving up his immunities?
I don't believe it's possible to give up immunities (can a Warforged Juggernaut choose to not be immune to healing?). If it is, I'm going to need a rules cite. Regardless, Punchbag is never considered willing, so the Fusion doesn't work.

Shove Punchbag into a sphere of annihilation. I'm not sure his immunity to being cast adrift on the planes is quite the same as being cast out of the multiverse entirely.
Deaths: 32. Punchbag is now immune to any effect that simply wipes him from existence.

Get a planar shepherd of the positive energy plane to summon a planar bubble when Punchbag is near, and have her grapple him to stop him leaving (requires an Eberron PrC and a standard plane, so may not be possible, true.)

Punchbag is immune to positive energy.

Decerebrate him.
The lack of reliance on biological processes means he probably wouldn't die in 1d4 days (wait, how the hell does that power work on Warforged?) but he'd definitely have the rest of the effects, so it counts.
Deaths: 33. Punchbag is now immune to all teleportation effects.

Make his head explode via Cranial Deluge.
Punchbag is immune to damage.

Has anyone put him to sleep? Yeah, he's never willing, but sleeping creatures are always willing.
Punchbag is never willing.

That's creepy, man.

Also, since his abilities are natural, use Metamorphosis via a spellblade. Then kill him. Natural abilities go away when Metamorphosis'd.
Punchbag is immune to all effects that change his form. The Transmutation immunity was also intended to apply to psionic equivalents but there's not really a convenient way to group them. Regardless, the original immunity applies.

Does no longer relying on bodily functions mean he's immune to having his head removed via a vorpal weapon? I'd say no, since vampires are undead and technically have the same immunity, but still die from having their head removed.

I think you're probably right there. Deaths: 34. Punchbag no longer needs a head to survive.

Also is he immune to spheres of annihilation yet? Can one be immune to spheres of annihilation?
He is now. And yes, you can - there's a class in Complete Arcane that gets immunity to spheres of annihilation.

He's immune to having his soul separated from his body, but he's not immune to being possessed. Sure it doesn't count as a death, but the possessing being can transform his body for themselves (which is not technically a transmutation), essentially trapping him forever as an observer to the possessing being, and the possessing being now has a body immune to all sorts of things. If the possessed being is ever exorcised, there's a save or die system shock from the transformation, which he's not immune to yet. (This is using the fiend possessing rules from fiendish codex I, or the fiend of possession class from fiend folio, though creatures like ghosts and the like can still do similar things).
I don't know the relevant rules and I'm AFB, can't give a ruling on this now I'm afraid.

Is he immune to black holes?

Is he immune to suns?

Is he immune to the effects of a vacuum? (Technically kill you from suffocation, but if you fail a constitution save you permanently fall unconscious, not sure if this counts as a bodily function since it's happening due to your blood boiling)
Going to need rules text for black holes, suns, and vacuum.

Aleaxes have Shapechange. It'll find some way to kill him if it keeps trying (and it will).
Tell me how the Aleax does it and I'll count it.

Anyone can lower its immunities, I believe, unless that's on his roster of immunities?

And a fire elemental can be harmed by fire. Look at Searing Spell.
I don't believe they can. Quote me the rule and I'll allow it. Searing Spell isn't the elemental lowering its immunity, it's the caster bypassing its immunity.

Some of those are outside the planar arrangement altogether, so I don't think that counts.
Given that that immunity was gained in response to being on an illusory demiplane when it got disjoined, I think it's probably robust enough to count.

Turn him into divine energy via Secure Corpse. Time travel/ plane shift, if necessary.
Requires him to be a corpse first. Also only lasts 1 day/level.

Remove his arms and legs, and place a blindfold, earmuffs, and smelling salts on him, and set the local temperature to a constant. Telepathically play [insert annoying pop culture song here; I recommend "They're Coming to Take me Away, Ha Ha"] in his mind for eternity....what.

Use a repeating trap of quickened ocular Time Stop on him.Punchbag always acts according to the base time trait of the Prime Material plane.

(Edit)Use a repeating trap of quickened Time Stop on yourself. Whose POV does defeating Punchbag count from? If you wait until the end of the universe with him, does that count as a win?No, you're not doing anything to Punchbag. He'll just get on with his farming.

Possess him and attempt to use Dark Speech without the feat.

May well work - what are you using to possess him?

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 10:30 AM

I'm sure there's a no-save possession method. Ghost, Magic Jar, Fiend of Possession, something. Note that I edited my post to add a few other methods.

Acanous

2015-11-23, 10:31 AM

Create some undead, and or unhallow the ground he is on. Do not permit him to acquire items that would reduce taint. Cause his taint score to increase until it kills him.

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 10:36 AM

Cast Earthquake while he is on open ground. I don't think freedom of movement works, unless he has a burrow speed?
(Edit)Continually feed him a drug, such as Agony (unconsciousness). He will become addicted, and be subject to overdose and side effects (Luhix: death; Mordyn Vapour: loss of actions; Vodare: becomes catatonic).
use a Hanging Rope to execute him.

Platymus Pus

2015-11-23, 10:39 AM

Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu.
I wish for Pazuzu to find a way to kill punch bag to his fullest ability.

ben-zayb

2015-11-23, 10:46 AM

Control Creature SDA non-mind-affecting dominate monster ordering Punchbag to wear Anarchic/Axiomatic/Holy/Unholy mainhand/offhand/armor-spikes/hidden-weapon/etc. for 4 negative levels that cannot be overcome. If such weapons must be properly wielded only in the main/offhand, then command Punchbag to take the Necropolitan ritual thereafter, instead.

Irresistible Performance SDA after hearing your (the deity's) Killing Joke, Punchbag becomes so deeply moved that it just simply dies

Divine Splendor SDA no-save immediate death if within 10ft/DvR of you (the deity)

Life Drain SDA a cloud of darkness envelops and eventually gets Punchbag to fail a Will save, causing it to die

OldTrees1

2015-11-23, 10:52 AM

Punchbag is a level 1 commoner. He has 10 in every stat. He has 4 HP. He is average in every way, save for one:
Immunities

All immunities apply retroactively

Missed Opportunities

Assorted obscure damage types
Poison that doesn't rely on ability damage
Disease that doesn't rely on ability damage

Missed Opportunities enabling tech:
1) Time travel to prevent the death that granted the "immunities are retroactive" immunity(removing that immunity and that death from the count)
2) Time travel to before the relevant immunity that caused missed opportunities
3) Use the missed opportunities
4) Repeat(successfully this time) the death that granted the "immunities are retroactive" immunity.

Unfortunately we don't have the ability(in RAW) to gain 3rd order time travel (this is 2nd order time travel applying to a 2nd order defense against 1st order time travel) so we should be careful about our use of this tech.

Surpriser

2015-11-23, 10:55 AM

Convince him to break a Staff of Power (Diplomacy or Bluff). If the 50% chance fails, try again with a Staff of the Magi.

Coup de Grace him. You won't deal damage, but eventually he will fail his DC 10 Fort save (CdG does not require you to deal damage and so far he is not immune to critical hits)

avr

2015-11-23, 10:59 AM

Missed the positive energy immunity - it wasn't in the OP list of immunities despite being one of the earlier ways he died.

Anyway, it may take more than one try due to his immunity to damage limiting the Fort save DC to 10, but just waiting until Punchbag's asleep and performing a coup de grace using the closest improvised weapon hasn't been tried that I noticed.

Edit: ninja'd.

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 11:00 AM

Possess him and cast Phoenix Fire.
(edit)Capture him in an Iron Flask.
Put a pair of Boots of Dancing on him, then send in the Aleaxes, mirrors of opposition, ice assassins, simulacrums, what-have-you. Do the same with the Robe of Vermin.
Put a Cloak of Poisonousness on him.
Put a Robe of Powerlessness on him.
Give him a Scarab of Death.
Does forcibly changing his alignment count? If so, force him to read the Book of Vile Darkness.
Possess/ DCFS him to have the Dead flaw.
Repeat the above with the Peasant Hat, Unimportant NPC, and Pig Bond flaws.
Find him in the plane of dreams, and kill him there.
Supposedly the PF Inquisitor has a no-save, non-mind-affecting Fascinate called Litany of Eloquence. Fascinate him for eternity.
Psionic sandwich him into anything with a movement speed of 0.
Psionic sandwich him into an item, then sacrifice him to your Ancestral Relic.
Cast Simulacrum with him as the component.
Have him use a thought bottle to reduce him to level 0.
Use a Talisman of Transference (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) to sap him of his xp and reduce him to level 0.

Killer Angel

2015-11-23, 11:01 AM

This thread is amazing. :smallbiggrin:

now, let's see...

n. 25 (?): Divine Intervention, wishing him out of existence?

ExLibrisMortis

2015-11-23, 11:06 AM

Teach Punchbag to cast an epic spell with backlash damage (I'm not sure how, after the immunity to shape-changing, but maybe by granting him a first-level spell slot that's used as part of a cooperative epic spell). I suppose it's covered under 'various exotic damage types', but it does contain the clause 'The caster cannot somehow avoid or make himself immune to backlash damage', which is quite special.

Acanous

2015-11-23, 11:15 AM

oddly enough, it hasn't been said.

Blasphemy. Not mind affecting, not a death effect. Just kills him.

Âmesang

2015-11-23, 11:34 AM

Bluff/Diplomacy his beloved to turn to the dark side and kill younglings. :smallfrown: Watch Punchbag die of a broken heart.

daremetoidareyo

2015-11-23, 11:35 AM

This build can kill your guy by knocking him out. When he begins to dream, this build will astral track him to the dream realm. Dreamtelling will allow the build to lucid dream in such a way to grapple the dream punching bag and drag it to the dreamheart. There, he can kill the dream punching bag's dreamform, which leads to the death of the punching bag's body.

Level

Class

Feats

1
planar fighter

skill knowledge (lucid dreaming (MoP)) (UA), dodge, mobility

2
planar fighter

spring attack

3
jaunter

dreamtelling (HoH)

4
jaunter

5
jaunter

6
monk

ius improved grapple, choke hold (OA)

7
jaunter

8
ranger

track

9
duskblade

astral tracker (MoP)

The following 11 levels of the build consist of whatever will allow the build to continue to advance in grappling powers + the deathblow feat from complete adventurer. Chokehold the dream version of Punching Bag so that he is helplessly asleep. Then use a standard to coup de grace the sleeping punching bag, who is sleeping in the dream realm while sleeping on the real world. Killing him in the dream heart kills his body. During a coup de grace, He must pass a fort save vs. 10 + automatic critical hit damage or die. But the damage doesn't kill him, failing the fort save does. He can keep on choke holding the dream punching bag to knock him out for 1-3 turns apiece, during which he can use a standard action to coup de grace to force a DC10 fort save per attempt.

Seward

2015-11-23, 11:44 AM

This one requires that Punchbag UMD's a Transport Via Plants spell, or had a Druid buddy who takes him along for the ride.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transportViaPlants.htm

Kill the tree he's occupying:

"The destruction of an occupied plant slays you and any creatures you have brought along, and ejects the bodies and all carried objects from the tree. "

I'm not sure if this isn't already covered by "Punchbag Isn't Willing" or "immunity to teleportation effects" but to me it seems more like "Cutting the Silver Cord", since going astral isn't something Punchbag can normally do on his own either.

Probably a missed opportunity. If he's immune to teleportation effects he can't be transported via plants. Oh well.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-11-23, 11:53 AM

Dreamtelling will allow the build to lucid dream in such a way to grapple the dream punching bag and drag it to the dreamheart. There, he can kill the dream punching bag's dreamform, which leads to the death of the punching bag's body.
Does the dream form inherit the permanent Freedom of Movement that Punchbag already has? If yes, can you bypass it? If double yes, nicely worked out.

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 12:01 PM

Have a Fiend of Blasphemy create a blood oath with him, then use its Kill Cultist ability.
Convince him to take up the Risen Martyr PrC, then offer him a Faustian Pact for oodles of xp. At FM lvl 10, he is released from his mortal coil.
Fail to turn Punchbag into a Tainted One (SK 18).

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 12:03 PM

Vaz

2015-11-23, 12:06 PM

Spellguard of Silvermoon Wu Jen Transcend Mortality buff sharing?

dspeyer

2015-11-23, 12:07 PM

Stick a bag of holding over him, then destroy the bag (doesn't leave him floating between the plains, just trapped in a little one with nothing else and no way home.

Research a variant of the Reverse Gravity spell which instead has all gravity in the area go toward a specific point at 1000x normal earth gravity. He will fall to that point and remain there. Apply permanency.

Wherever he looks, put a silent image of a page of a book of forbidden lore. It's really hard to not read text that's right in front of you. Eventually he will gain enough ranks in knowledge(forbidden lore) to go completely insane.

Use Minor Creation to expose him to his mass in antimatter. Use telekinesis to make sure nothing else is around, and to hold the antimatter against him despite the explosions.

Sgt. Cookie

2015-11-23, 12:14 PM

Have we done "Have him sent to the Positive Energy plane (Or other plane that is Major-Positive Dominant) to explode from the Temporary Hit points" yet? Not sure off hand HOW to do that, but that's probably possible.

Acanous

2015-11-23, 12:22 PM

How about Searing Spell? If he is immune to the fire damage, he takes half and still dies.

Sgt. Cookie

2015-11-23, 12:24 PM

Frostburn's equivalent too. Unless it comes EXPLICITLY from the Cold subtype in which case it does nothing.

Quertus

2015-11-23, 12:42 PM

Throw him his farm to the moon / into outer space / into a black hole / whatever. Let him tend his farm in peace... somewhere else.

If, for some reason, that isn't an option...

Create an epic spell to move the entire prime material entirety of reality out of phase. Since Punching Bag is immune to transmutation, he will not be moved out of phase --> he will now be out of phase with reality. If you are kind, you can put his farm back in phase with him. Slightly modified (to work like World of Darkness astral projection), I rather like this idea as a campaign magical location - a farm where the characters find that they cannot move anything, but, if they pay careful attention, they notice that some unseen force is tending the farm.

3.0 disintegration does not deal damage.

Use a creature that kills him by reducing his max HP instead of just dealing damage.

Youthen him to the point where he no longer exists.

Chop off his limbs. Graft on golem limbs until he fails his save and becomes mindless. For bonus points, use the Rod of Construct Control to gain control of your new, indestructible minion.

Since his immunity to being eaten is based on having "a truly foul taste"... Use bestow curse to remove the ability to taste from creature with swallow whole. Or just use undead that have no sense of taste. Ah, wait, he has freedom of movement...

Assuming no such exists, create a custom prestige class with the ability, "can grapple creatures with Freedom of Movement as though they did not have the ability". Swallow whole and grapple him again.

Research custom spells that apply unique conditions: a spell that removes your ability to think, a spell that removes your ability to take actions, a spell that causes you to be repelled by gravity instead of attracted by it, a spell that removes each of your 5 senses (OK, a few of those already exist), a spell that removes your ability to control your limbs, etc.

Missed Opportunities

Assorted obscure damage types
Poison that doesn't rely on ability damage
Disease that doesn't rely on ability damage

If you traveled back in time to grab a modern flesh-eating disease, would this kill him? Or would his skeleton continue tending the farm, as he is "No longer reliant on biological processes"? Sounds like yet another fun campaign location - the farm tended by a skeleton that is immune to turning, and immune to all attempts to damage or destroy it. Perhaps even a headless skeleton, at that.

Same question, but with brown recluse spider venom?

Similar question, but with tumors that grow and eventually exceed his carrying capacity?

Convince him to go adventuring.

Summon him in a campaign where the DM can't read the rules right, and kill him despite his immunities.

Point out his character sheet to the DM. Convince them that he is not balanced, and that he must bring a new character. :smallwink:

The immunities are not supernatural. That is not within the safe limits of Wish. You fail to remove the immunities.

Not within the safe limits for wish, perhaps, but still within the limits for wish. You can argue that the specific wording given was flawed, but you let 1000 monkies wish for 1000 years and they eventually succeed in removing his immunities. As would a character with cheesed out +NI to craft:wish wording.

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-23, 12:51 PM

Have Punchbag become our symbiont. He is automatically affected by things we fail the save for, and we do not share his immunities. Proceed to be subjected to every single method already used and to be used, and choose to fail your saves.
(symbiont extra) Symbiont can also be used instead of possession - it is affected by your own spells. Proceed to use any effects that required possession in order to use, if possession wasn't already a valid method of using them (ie things like Phoenix Fire).
Use the Ritual of Vitality to turn him into brown mold, and set him on fire. Now ALL IS PUNCHBAG, AND PUNCHBAG IS ALL! Alternatively, make him any creature that has an "instantly dies to x" effect (too lazy to book dive for this right now); make the brown mold cold, for example.
Possess him, then use him to possess someone else. Cast Lifebound, then kill the new container.
Renewal (web) targets a living creature, but also somehow brings it back from the dead. Cast it 10 times to reduce his con to 0.
Give him the necropolitan template again, then hit him with a Slaying Arrow.
Give him a cyst, then cast Necrotic Termination.
Cast Tree Healing, Shrink Item, then Wood Rot on him.
(edit)Create four areas of Severe wind, with him in the only clear square between them. Each blows in a different direction, so he is checked no matter which way he tries to go.

Âmesang

2015-11-23, 12:54 PM

Since his immunity to being eaten is based on having "a truly foul taste"... Use bestow curse to remove the ability to taste from creature with swallow whole. Or just use undead that have no sense of taste. Ah, wait, he has freedom of movement...
Theoretically couldn't you cast prestidigitation a number of times to… um… change his "flavor?"

…though I should probably stop that line of thinking there before I get into Book of Erotic Fantasy territory. :smalltongue:

Helluin

2015-11-23, 01:02 PM

Cast Unearthly Beauty to assume the aspect of a nymph. Punchbag dies from looking at you

Edit: Blazefire/Blightfire from Shape of Fire/Shadow of the Void, respectively. Not constitution drain/hit point damage, just loss of constitution/hit points.

Jormengand

2015-11-23, 01:15 PM

Use him as a spell component, send him to the Infinite Staircase in the abyss (bonus points: can't even be resurrected), use a Shape of Fire to reduce his hit points without damaging him, use Necrotic Termination (not a death effect) to kill him... that's all I have for the moment.

daremetoidareyo

2015-11-23, 01:16 PM

Does the dream form inherit the permanent Freedom of Movement that Punchbag already has? If yes, can you bypass it? If double yes, nicely worked out.

How does one counteract freedom of movement in order to make a pin during a grapple?

Might I also suggest throwing harvester of souls (from exemplars of evil) on that build, thus permadestroying him when he eventually fails that DC 10 fort check.

----------

Is there a way to turn the punching bag undead? If so, then you could use disciple of the sun from complete divine to destroy him.

----------

A totemist 2 with basilisk mask can turn him to stone. His storm giant friend destructive rage barbarian dungeon crasher fighter war hulk can ready an action to smash the statue.

----------

BOVD Luhix drug

Prime32

2015-11-23, 01:24 PM

In a campaign using the Sanity rules, have Punchbag stare at an army of Colossal undead lead by an evil deity.

Have said evil deity attack Punchbag with salient divine abilities.

Use Punchbag's indestructible silver cord to tie him up.

Train Punchbag into an lv20 Monk of the Healing Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-healing-hand) from Pathfinder, and convince him to use its capstone.

Throw Punchbag and one end of a Ring Gate into a Portable Hole, fold up the hole and push it into the other Ring Gate, then destroy the Ring Gate you're holding. Technically this shouldn't count as "adrift on the planes".

Have an epic-level Hulking Hurler pick up Punchbag's farm and throw it into the sun.

Seward

2015-11-23, 01:34 PM

Use Tree Healing instead. It's a conjuration (healing).

Pretty good. Unlike the Transport Via Plants, it has a fort save:

" If the tree is totally destroyed (by a forest fire or a blight spell, for example), you are expelled from the tree and instantly slain unless you succeed on a DC 18 Fortitude save. "

Is Punchbag immune to fort save effects yet? Otherwise we might have a winner here.

Jormengand

2015-11-23, 01:37 PM

Pretty good. Unlike the Transport Via Plants, it has a fort save:

" If the tree is totally destroyed (by a forest fire or a blight spell, for example), you are expelled from the tree and instantly slain unless you succeed on a DC 18 Fortitude save. "

Is Punchbag immune to fort save effects yet? Otherwise we might have a winner here.

Irresistible spell (KoKPG) can put a stop to that if he is.

daremetoidareyo

2015-11-23, 01:39 PM

Pretty good. Unlike the Transport Via Plants, it has a fort save:

" If the tree is totally destroyed (by a forest fire or a blight spell, for example), you are expelled from the tree and instantly slain unless you succeed on a DC 18 Fortitude save. "

Is Punchbag immune to fort save effects yet? Otherwise we might have a winner here.

Are there any reflex saves vs. death? Cuz that's a whole new shabang.

Âmesang

2015-11-23, 01:45 PM

Have an epic-level Hulking Hurler pick up Punchbag's farm and throw it into the sun.
Would that then make him immune to the sun? What kind of affect would that have on a person? No more sun burns, sure… no more tans… can alchemists manufacture pills to counter his sudden lack of vitamin D? Would he be immune to sunlight? Would he be able to see? So many questions!

crunchykoolaid

2015-11-23, 02:03 PM

Confirm a crit with a vorpal weapon! This isn't a death effect, this is just the extremely rare condition of "decapitated".

ExLibrisMortis

2015-11-23, 02:15 PM

The 3.0 disintegrate effect can be brought into 3.5 via the pyroclastic dragon, from the Draconomicon.

How does one counteract freedom of movement in order to make a pin during a grapple?

I have no idea, I'm asking you :smalltongue:. I'm not familiar with dreaming rules, maybe there is something in there that is magic-but-not-magic that allows you to remove dream-copies of effects, like a dream-Punchbag's dream-immunity to grapples, or something.

SangoProduction

2015-11-23, 02:18 PM

Immunities

If cast adrift in the planes, automatically returns home

Held down by a suicidal maniac (or plane-appropriate creature) in the plane of [insert random, horrible death-causing plane, such as the plane of positive energy]. Also dimensional anchored once teleported.

*EDIT: OK, freedom of movement makes him immune to being held down. The tricked by said entity to hold hands and get teleported on a land-like structure, so he's not adrift in the planes.

Prime32

2015-11-23, 02:18 PM

Would that then make him immune to the sun? What kind of affect would that have on a person? No more sun burns, sure… no more tans… can alchemists manufacture pills to counter his sudden lack of vitamin D? Would he be immune to sunlight? Would he be able to see? So many questions!Part of the reason is to short-circuit his "always return home" abilities. Just move his home.

Hamste

2015-11-23, 02:25 PM

Keep making as many copies of him through the many means possible and then have them...poke him lightly and repeatedly until he kills himself from insanity. Or don't grapple, just have them all crowd around him. They are not objects and therefore he can't walk through them and they are not grappling him so freedom of movement doesn't work. They are just a giant blob of humanity all over him keeping him from doing anything.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-11-23, 02:27 PM

Part of the reason is to short-circuit his "always return home" abilities. Just move destroy his home.
Doesn't this work fine? Destroy his home, put him anywhere he's not in the way, problem solved.

See how close we can get to an invulnerable planet by threatening increasingly large parts of his homeworld.

SangoProduction

2015-11-23, 02:36 PM

Oh, he teleports home?

Teleport his home to a hostile plane, or one that implodes like the ones others were describing. Then teleport him. He returns home to meet his demise.

Platymus Pus

2015-11-23, 04:35 PM

Punchbag is a level 1 commoner. He has 10 in every stat. He has 4 HP. He is average in every way, save for one:
Train punchbag to not be a commoner making Punchbag cease to exist as he knows it.

Rubik

2015-11-23, 06:14 PM

Convince the soul of one of the early iterations that has already died to come back as a risen martyr, and start throwing a bunch of challenges that threaten his farm, rather than him, and make sure they're all near his CR yet defeatable, given his immunities. He'll eventually reach the end of the PRC and die.

Also, I already suggested moving his farm to someplace that will kill him (namely, the Positive Energy Plane).

Oh, and Heliomance, the Player's Handbook 176 states:

Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw:
A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf’s resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.

So Punchbag can willingly suppress his immunity, which is 100% resistance.

Jack_Simth

2015-11-23, 07:08 PM

Deaths: 23. Punchbag is now immune to all attempts to separate his soul from his body directly.Fails to function. Despite the name, Trap the Soul doesn't separate a person's soul form their body! It just stuffs both into a gem.

Rubik

2015-11-23, 07:22 PM

Fails to function. Despite the name, Trap the Soul doesn't separate a person's soul form their body! It just stuffs both into a gem.Shhhhh.

Just use Trap the Soul on Punchbag again. He'll never suspect a thing.

atemu1234

2015-11-23, 10:30 PM

Turn one of the dead Punchies into an undead, have a cleric destroy it.

Rubik

2015-11-23, 10:41 PM

Cast the Revenance spell to temporarily bring one of the earlier Punchbags back to life He'll die again in 1 min/lvl.

Wouldn't the Ritual of Unnaming destroy every Punchbag everywhere?

Quertus

2015-11-23, 10:58 PM

Cast the Revenance spell to temporarily bring back one of the earlier Punchbags back to life He'll die again in 1 min/lvl.

Wouldn't the Ritual of Unnaming destroy every Punchbag everywhere?

Nooooo! Not my limbless, indestructible half-golem minion! :smallfrown:

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 04:50 AM

Have a Fiend of Blasphemy create a blood oath with him, then use its Kill Cultist ability.
Punchbag is never willi-wait, you don't have to be willing for the Fiend to form a blood oath with you? Regardless, he has Freedom of Movement, can pass through solid objects and force effects, and is immune to mind-affecting things, so he's not going to stick around in the ritual chamber to be bonded.

Convince him to take up the Risen Martyr PrC, then offer him a Faustian Pact for oodles of xp. At FM lvl 10, he is released from his mortal coil.
Punchbag is never willing.

Fail to turn Punchbag into a Tainted One (SK 18).
Congratulations, I think you found a poison that works through his lack of reliance on biological processes. Deaths: 34. Punchbag is now immune to poison.

Spellguard of Silvermoon Wu Jen Transcend Mortality buff sharing?
Punchbag is immune to Transmutation effects, because someone already managed to stick him with that spell.

Stick a bag of holding over him, then destroy the bag (doesn't leave him floating between the plains, just trapped in a little one with nothing else and no way home.
Deaths: 35. Punchbag can now trigger his automatic return to his farm at will.

Research a variant of the Reverse Gravity spell which instead has all gravity in the area go toward a specific point at 1000x normal earth gravity. He will fall to that point and remain there. Apply permanency.
DM refuses to allow the custom spell.

Wherever he looks, put a silent image of a page of a book of forbidden lore. It's really hard to not read text that's right in front of you. Eventually he will gain enough ranks in knowledge(forbidden lore) to go completely insane.
1) Do you have rules text on the effects of knowledge (forbidden lore)?
2) Punchbag isn't gaining XP, how's he supposed to gain new knowledge ranks?

Use Minor Creation to expose him to his mass in antimatter. Use telekinesis to make sure nothing else is around, and to hold the antimatter against him despite the explosions.
There are no rules governing the effects of antimatter. Nothing happens.

How about Searing Spell? If he is immune to the fire damage, he takes half and still dies.
Punchbag is not immune to fire, he's immune to damage.

Throw him his farm to the moon / into outer space / into a black hole / whatever. Let him tend his farm in peace... somewhere else.
Punchbag continues to farm in peace. He is not killed or incapacitated.

If, for some reason, that isn't an option...

Create an epic spell to move the entire prime material entirety of reality out of phase. Since Punching Bag is immune to transmutation, he will not be moved out of phase --> he will now be out of phase with reality. If you are kind, you can put his farm back in phase with him. Slightly modified (to work like World of Darkness astral projection), I rather like this idea as a campaign magical location - a farm where the characters find that they cannot move anything, but, if they pay careful attention, they notice that some unseen force is tending the farm.
We're now way outside the area the rules govern. I have no idea what the effects of that would be, or even whether such a spell is possible. I'm afraid I'm not going to count it - I don't even know what immunity he'd gain!

3.0 disintegration does not deal damage.
It is, however, still a Transmutation effect.

Use a creature that kills him by reducing his max HP instead of just dealing damage.
Does such a creature exist? If it does, this will work.

Youthen him to the point where he no longer exists.
How?

Chop off his limbs. Graft on golem limbs until he fails his save and becomes mindless. For bonus points, use the Rod of Construct Control to gain control of your new, indestructible minion.
Punchbag is immune to damage. How do you plan to remove his limbs?

Since his immunity to being eaten is based on having "a truly foul taste"... Use bestow curse to remove the ability to taste from creature with swallow whole. Or just use undead that have no sense of taste. Ah, wait, he has freedom of movement...
The truly foul taste is fluff text. Punchbag is immune to being eaten. Alternatively, the foul taste is magic and even creatures without a sense of taste are disgusted by it :P

Assuming no such exists, create a custom prestige class with the ability, "can grapple creatures with Freedom of Movement as though they did not have the ability". Swallow whole and grapple him again.

Research custom spells that apply unique conditions: a spell that removes your ability to think, a spell that removes your ability to take actions, a spell that causes you to be repelled by gravity instead of attracted by it, a spell that removes each of your 5 senses (OK, a few of those already exist), a spell that removes your ability to control your limbs, etc.
Custom content is outside the scope of the rules of the game.

If you traveled back in time to grab a modern flesh-eating disease, would this kill him? Or would his skeleton continue tending the farm, as he is "No longer reliant on biological processes"? Sounds like yet another fun campaign location - the farm tended by a skeleton that is immune to turning, and immune to all attempts to damage or destroy it. Perhaps even a headless skeleton, at that.

Same question, but with brown recluse spider venom?

Similar question, but with tumors that grow and eventually exceed his carrying capacity?
No rules that govern any of these. He is now immune to poison, though.

Convince him to go adventuring.
Punchbag is never willing.

Have Punchbag become our symbiont.
How?

Use the Ritual of Vitality to turn him into brown mold, and set him on fire. Now ALL IS PUNCHBAG, AND PUNCHBAG IS ALL! Alternatively, make him any creature that has an "instantly dies to x" effect (too lazy to book dive for this right now); make the brown mold cold, for example.
Punchbag is immune to any effect that changes his form.
[QUOTE=GilesTheCleric;20110352]Possess him, then use him to possess someone else. Cast Lifebound, then kill the new container.
The new container gains all of Punchbag's immunities while he is possessing it.

Renewal (web) targets a living creature, but also somehow brings it back from the dead. Cast it 10 times to reduce his con to 0.
Link?

Give him the necropolitan template again, then hit him with a Slaying Arrow.
Punchbag is immune to any effect that would change his form.

Give him a cyst, then cast Necrotic Termination.
Deaths: 36. Punchbag is now immune to Necromancy effects.

Cast Tree Healing, Shrink Item, then Wood Rot on him.
Via Spellblade or some similar means I assume? Deaths: 37. If Punchbag is magically contained within an item that is then destroyed, he appears unharmed.

(edit)Create four areas of Severe wind, with him in the only clear square between them. Each blows in a different direction, so he is checked no matter which way he tries to go.

Punchbag ducks into the ground and returns home.

Cast Unearthly Beauty to assume the aspect of a nymph. Punchbag dies from looking at you
What even is that spell? Deaths: 38. Punchbag is now a stolid sort, and cares naught for visual distractions, gaze attacks, and the like.

Edit: Blazefire/Blightfire from Shape of Fire/Shadow of the Void, respectively. Not constitution drain/hit point damage, just loss of constitution/hit points.
Rules text?

Use him as a spell component
For what spell?

send him to the Infinite Staircase in the abyss (bonus points: can't even be resurrected)
Punchbag, having been trapped off-plane, blinks back to his farm.

use a Shape of Fire to reduce his hit points without damaging him
What's one of them and where do I find the rules?

Necrotic Termination (not a death effect) to kill him... that's all I have for the moment.
Punchbag is immune to Necromancy effects.

A totemist 2 with basilisk mask can turn him to stone. His storm giant friend destructive rage barbarian dungeon crasher fighter war hulk can ready an action to smash the statue.
Punchbag is immune to all effects that change his form.

BOVD Luhix drug
Punchbag is immune to poisons.

In a campaign using the Sanity rules, have Punchbag stare at an army of Colossal undead lead by an evil deity.
Does that not count as mind-affecting?

Use Punchbag's indestructible silver cord to tie him up.
The silver cord is incorporeal. Also he has Freedom of Movement.

Train Punchbag into an lv20 Monk of the Healing Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-healing-hand) from Pathfinder, and convince him to use its capstone.
Punchbag is not willing to train as a Monk. He's too busy on the farm.

Throw Punchbag and one end of a Ring Gate into a Portable Hole, fold up the hole and push it into the other Ring Gate, then destroy the Ring Gate you're holding. Technically this shouldn't count as "adrift on the planes".
It doesn't, but he can now trigger that ability at will anyway.

Have an epic-level Hulking Hurler pick up Punchbag's farm and throw it into the sun.
The farm does not count as a single object, the Hulking Hurler cannot get a grip on it in order to pick it up.

Create some undead, and or unhallow the ground he is on. Do not permit him to acquire items that would reduce taint. Cause his taint score to increase until it kills him.
Deaths: 39. Punchbag is now immune to Taint.

Cast Earthquake while he is on open ground. I don't think freedom of movement works, unless he has a burrow speed?
Punchbag can move through solid objects at will, thus does not count as trapped in the fissure when it closes.

(Edit)Continually feed him a drug, such as Agony (unconsciousness). He will become addicted, and be subject to overdose and side effects (Luhix: death; Mordyn Vapour: loss of actions; Vodare: becomes catatonic).
Punchbag is immune to poison.

use a Hanging Rope to execute him.
This is probably covered under some combination of not needing air, not relying on biological processes, and not needing a head.

Missed Opportunities enabling tech:
1) Time travel to prevent the death that granted the "immunities are retroactive" immunity(removing that immunity and that death from the count)
2) Time travel to before the relevant immunity that caused missed opportunities
3) Use the missed opportunities
4) Repeat(successfully this time) the death that granted the "immunities are retroactive" immunity.

Unfortunately we don't have the ability(in RAW) to gain 3rd order time travel (this is 2nd order time travel applying to a 2nd order defense against 1st order time travel) so we should be careful about our use of this tech.
Punchbag does not have self-resurrection capability. Each Punchbag exists in a separate reality.

Coup de Grace him. You won't deal damage, but eventually he will fail his DC 10 Fort save (CdG does not require you to deal damage and so far he is not immune to critical hits)
Deaths: 40. Punchbag is now immune to critical hits (and how ridiculous is it that he needed that despite the immunity to damage?)

Possess him and cast Phoenix Fire.
Punchbag is immune to Necromancy (I can't remember if this was before the attempt where he got that immunity - GitP messed up my attempts to quote everyone in order. If it is, though, this one would have given him immunity to Necromancy, and the other attempt would have failed)

(edit)Capture him in an Iron Flask.
Deaths: 41. Punchbag is now immune to mystical binding.

Put a pair of Boots of Dancing on him, then send in the Aleaxes, mirrors of opposition, ice assassins, simulacrums, what-have-you. Do the same with the Robe of Vermin.
The Boots of Dancing work as Irresistible Dance, which is mind-affecting. Punchbag is immune.
The Robe of Vermin only has its effect when "in a situation requiring concentration and action against hostile opponents". Punchbag does not take action against the duplicates, he just does his best to ignore them.

Put a Cloak of Poisonousness on him.
Punchbag is immune to poison.

Put a Robe of Powerlessness on him.
Deaths: 42. Punchbag is now immune to ability score penalties.

Give him a Scarab of Death.
The Scarab kills by burrowing into the victim's heart. Punchbag does not need his heart to survive.

Does forcibly changing his alignment count? If so, force him to read the Book of Vile Darkness.
No, why would it? It doesn't incapacitate him.

Possess/ DCFS him to have the Dead flaw.
Repeat the above with the Peasant Hat, Unimportant NPC, and Pig Bond flaws.
Flaws are not feats, you cannot DCFS them.

Find him in the plane of dreams, and kill him there.
I see no reason why dream!Punchbag wouldn't share all his immunities.

Supposedly the PF Inquisitor has a no-save, non-mind-affecting Fascinate called Litany of Eloquence. Fascinate him for eternity.
It's mind-affecting. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/litany-of-eloquence)

Psionic sandwich him into anything with a movement speed of 0.
Psionic sandwich him into an item, then sacrifice him to your Ancestral Relic.
Mind Switch is, unsurprisingly, mind-affecting.

Cast Simulacrum with him as the component.
Punchbag refuses to stay still long enough for you to build a snowman around him.

Have him use a thought bottle to reduce him to level 0.
Punchbag declines to use the Thought Bottle.

Use a Talisman of Transference (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) to sap him of his xp and reduce him to level 0.
Punchbag declines to use the Talisman.

Teach Punchbag to cast an epic spell with backlash damage (I'm not sure how, after the immunity to shape-changing, but maybe by granting him a first-level spell slot that's used as part of a cooperative epic spell). I suppose it's covered under 'various exotic damage types', but it does contain the clause 'The caster cannot somehow avoid or make himself immune to backlash damage', which is quite special.
That is rather nice, however, Punchbag declines to participate in the casting of the spell.

oddly enough, it hasn't been said.

Blasphemy. Not mind affecting, not a death effect. Just kills him.
Deaths: 43. Punchbag is now immune to alignment-based effects.

Bluff/Diplomacy his beloved to turn to the dark side and kill younglings. :smallfrown: Watch Punchbag die of a broken heart.
Punchbag only wishes he could die.

This one requires that Punchbag UMD's a Transport Via Plants spell, or had a Druid buddy who takes him along for the ride.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transportViaPlants.htm

Kill the tree he's occupying:

"The destruction of an occupied plant slays you and any creatures you have brought along, and ejects the bodies and all carried objects from the tree. "

I'm not sure if this isn't already covered by "Punchbag Isn't Willing" or "immunity to teleportation effects" but to me it seems more like "Cutting the Silver Cord", since going astral isn't something Punchbag can normally do on his own either.

Probably a missed opportunity. If he's immune to teleportation effects he can't be transported via plants. Oh well.
Both Punchbag Isn't Willing and the immunity to teleportation apply. Cutting the silver cord happened before Punchbag Isn't Willing.

Fails to function. Despite the name, Trap the Soul doesn't separate a person's soul form their body! It just stuffs both into a gem.
Oops. Ah well, it's covered by the immunity to mystical binding and the immunity to Necromancy now anyway.

Dgrin

2015-11-24, 05:56 AM

Kill him with high Taint score:
For example, use any monster with ability damage/drain/negative levels etc. on its natural attack. Take Touch of Taint (Heroes of Horror, p. 124) feat. Your natural attack now increases target's taint instead. On 42+ Corruption/Depravity the Punchbag is Dead/Insane.

EDIT: Damn, that way to kill him wasn't in your post when I typed that :smallconfused:. Well, back to drawing board

EDIT 2:
Punchbag only wishes he could die.
Well, just diplomance him into using Thought Bottle and the like - it is even something he wants!

Rubik

2015-11-24, 06:07 AM

Punchbag refuses to stay still long enough for you to build a snowman around him.A high level StP erudite manifests Grip of Iron at the end of the initiative count right before his turn on the round Linked with Simulacrum, which is then fully manifested at the beginning of his turn, using Punchbag as the material component. Punchbag is consumed in the manifestation. Make a tiny effigy of compacted snow for the snow component.

I could do the same with a Clone spell, except Clone is a necromancy spell.

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 06:10 AM

Kill him with high Taint score:
For example, use any monster with ability damage/drain/negative levels etc. on its natural attack. Take Touch of Taint (Heroes of Horror, p. 124) feat. Your natural attack now increases target's taint instead. On 42+ Corruption/Depravity the Punchbag is Dead/Insane.

EDIT: Damn, that way to kill him wasn't in your post when I typed that :smallconfused:. Well, back to drawing board

Sorry, apparently multiquote has a limit on the number of posts it can quote at once. I had to do some, then go back and edit in the ones it missed.

Rubik

2015-11-24, 06:17 AM

Use Diplomancy to convince Punchbag to NOT phase into the ground under his farm, where he will then NOT sleep forever. Since he is never willing, he does the exact opposite of what you try to convince him to do, and will therefore phase into the ground under his farm, where he will then sleep forever.

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 06:31 AM

@Heliomance I think you missed posts 56-60, at least

Rubik

2015-11-24, 06:33 AM

Use Craft Contingent Spell on an undead, or turn the undead into a spellstitched undead, both with access to Plane Shift. Haunt Shift the undead creature into a haunting presence on his farm, which then uses Plane Shift to send itself (and the farm which is now basically its body) to the Gray Wastes of Hades, where Punchbag will then revert to shortly thereafter, where he will eventually succumb to the entrapment function of the plane and his body and soul will be assimilated and destroyed by True Evil.

Oh, look! I recreated Silent Hill!

Khedrac

2015-11-24, 06:44 AM

He may not rely on biological processes, but he still appears to have them - therefore = cover him in Green Slime.
Very quickly he won't have a body.

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 06:48 AM

Just so we can close this particular method:

Repeat the trick to kill Punchbag with Poison, except Punchbag is now within the area of someone with Sertrous' Poisonous Breath

EDIT: Also, contact and coordonate withh all of your alternate reality versions such that next time each of you kill your version's Punchbag, you all do it the exact same time.

lorddrake

2015-11-24, 07:09 AM

Would it work if one would travel through time, went back before punchbag was born and used the dream of metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?121334-The-Dream-of-Metal) trick? Does this count if he was never born?

Additionally, if we killed his parents, does this count?

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 07:10 AM

I'm sure there's a no-save possession method. Ghost, Magic Jar, Fiend of Possession, something. Note that I edited my post to add a few other methods.
Give me a specific possession method that he's not immune to yet, and that can bypass the "impossible to force a creature to use the Dark Speech" clause.

Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu.
I wish for Pazuzu to find a way to kill punch bag to his fullest ability.
Pazuzu, for all his vaunted power, is unable to find a way to kill Punchbag.

Control Creature SDA non-mind-affecting dominate monster ordering Punchbag to wear Anarchic/Axiomatic/Holy/Unholy mainhand/offhand/armor-spikes/hidden-weapon/etc. for 4 negative levels that cannot be overcome. If such weapons must be properly wielded only in the main/offhand, then command Punchbag to take the Necropolitan ritual thereafter, instead.
Deaths: 44. Punchbag is now immune to all attempts to control his actions.

Irresistible Performance SDA after hearing your (the deity's) Killing Joke, Punchbag becomes so deeply moved that it just simply dies

Divine Splendor SDA no-save immediate death if within 10ft/DvR of you (the deity)

Life Drain SDA a cloud of darkness envelops and eventually gets Punchbag to fail a Will save, causing it to die
...why do deities need so many different ways to kill people? I can't think of any smaller category, so:
Deaths: 45. Punchbag is now immune to Salient Divine Abilities.

Use Craft Contingent Spell on an undead, or turn the undead into a spellstitched undead, both with access to Plane Shift. Haunt Shift the undead creature into a haunting presence on his farm, which then uses Plane Shift to send itself (and the farm which is now basically its body) to the Gray Wastes of Hades, where Punchbag will then revert to shortly thereafter, where he will eventually succumb to the entrapment function of the plane and his body and soul will be assimilated and destroyed by True Evil.

Oh, look! I recreated Silent Hill!
Deaths: 46. Punchbag is now immune to all planar hazards.

He may not rely on biological processes, but he still appears to have them - therefore = cover him in Green Slime.
Very quickly he won't have a body.
Punchbag is immune to ability damage and drain.

Gandariel

2015-11-24, 07:18 AM

Dgrin

2015-11-24, 07:21 AM

1. Mindrape Bob, the Friendly Commoner (Or Jane, the Friendly Commoner, if you're feeling conservative) into loving the Punchbag. Give him the Death Rock. In a week, his dearest loved one is automatically slain and turned into zombie that serves the owner.

2. Diplomance, persuade, or otherwise force the Punchbag to change his alignment to good. Then place the Crown of Evil on his head. A good-aligned character attempting to use any of the Regalia of Evil must succeed on Will saving throw or immediately lose 2000 XP. Repeat until he fails.

Rubik

2015-11-24, 07:21 AM

Create a Sanctum Shades Sanctum Genesis demiplane, as before. Recreate the Plane Shifting haunting presence. Wait until Punchbag has reverted to the demiplane. Disjunction the demiplane, thereby sending the farm into the void, where Punchbag follows, regardless of his immunities.

Repeat the above, except the demiplane is filled to the brim with quintessence. Sure, Punchbag isn't actually dead, but he's on a 180' radius demiplane with everything that is NOT him removed from the timestream, so he can't do anything whatsoever, and he cannot escape.

Repeat the above, except the demiplane is filled with the substance that comprises a black hole (alternately, a sphere of annihilation). The entire farm is compacted into a singularity and/or obliterated from existence, and Punchbag is forced to follow it. Bye, Punchbag.

Repeat the above, except the farm is now just sitting there on the demiplane. Punchbag can farm it all he wants, but he can never escape or perform any action of note to the rest of the multiverse ever again, except maybe kill the haunting presence, which is his only company from then on. That's after a few millennia of ticking him off by doing all the work for him by animating all the farm tools.

Repeat the above with the haunting presence, except you send the farm to Sigil. Watch as his conflicting immunities destroy him.

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 07:29 AM

1: Forcefully don unto Punchbag an Unholy/Holy-Armor-Spikes Full Plate. You, of course, have an arbitrary amount of actions and can even follow wherever PB runs to.

2: Have an Anarchic-Axiomatic-Flying (i.e. Animated) Shield strap itself in Punchbag's arm.

Rubik

2015-11-24, 07:36 AM

Give yourself the Manipulate Form ability. Bestow the same to your familiar, which then bestows upon you the following ability: "Breath of Nonexistence (Ex): designate one creature. That creature and all the variants of that creature that exist everywhere, nowhere, anywhere, and elsewhen alive, dead, undead, unliving, and otherwise, in every possible and impossible timeline, within the multiverse and outside of it, as well as all of the variants and alternate versions thereof, all cease to exist at a magical, subatomic, and spiritual level. All traces are immediately and irrevocably gone, and there is no way to bring them back."

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 07:54 AM

Step 1: Make an Epic Spell that creates a new autokill condition that has "anyone who dies to this doesn't trigger or cause anything else, such as the adaptive evolution", and cast it.
Step 2: Make another Epic Spell that bestows said Condition with no save against all versions of Punchbag at the exact same time, and cast that spell. Ergo, it's the new condition that kills those Punchbags, not necessarily epic spells.
Step 3: Since Punchbag may, and probably will, overcome even that, repeat steps 1 and 2, creating new conditions and applying it, ad infinitum
Step 4: Since Punchbag may, and probably will, overcome even that, make an epic Power that makes the adaptive evolution under your complete fiat, and manifest that power

Iron Heart Surge adaptive evolution, and then all Punchbags' existence

Become a Hagunemnon, and turn into any version that is partly Punchbag. Hagunemnon doesn't get Natural or Extraordinary Abilities, and thus the immunities and adaptive evolution too, so start mass-producing such clones and kill them all.

Use Summon Past Time Duplicate on it, which, while is not truly possessing negative levels (thus not triggering immunity), is still treated as having 2 negative levels.

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 08:55 AM

Cast illusions to make it look like he's in a white, endless void.
He can't Teleport back home because he already is there.
He *can* move, but it'll look like he isn't going anywhere. He stops moving and stands there for eternity, bored.
How are you using Images to make an endless void, when Images are both finite in size and cannot make it look like things aren't there? You could do that with a Phantasm, but Punchbag is immune to mind-affecting things.

Kill him with DM Fiat.
If you don't add a death, we'll all stop playing.
I don't negotiate with terrorists.

1. Mindrape Bob, the Friendly Commoner (Or Jane, the Friendly Commoner, if you're feeling conservative) into loving the Punchbag. Give him the Death Rock. In a week, his dearest loved one is automatically slain and turned into zombie that serves the owner.

2. Diplomance, persuade, or otherwise force the Punchbag to change his alignment to good. Then place the Crown of Evil on his head. A good-aligned character attempting to use any of the Regalia of Evil must succeed on Will saving throw or immediately lose 2000 XP. Repeat until he fails.
Where are the rules for these items found? I've never heard of either of them. Also, Punchbag is immune to alignment-based effects.

Create a Sanctum Shades Sanctum Genesis demiplane, as before. Recreate the Plane Shifting haunting presence. Wait until Punchbag has reverted to the demiplane. Disjunction the demiplane, thereby sending the farm into the void, where Punchbag follows, regardless of his immunities.

Repeat the above, except the demiplane is filled to the brim with quintessence. Sure, Punchbag isn't actually dead, but he's on a 180' radius demiplane with everything that is NOT him removed from the timestream, so he can't do anything whatsoever, and he cannot escape.

Repeat the above, except the demiplane is filled with the substance that comprises a black hole (alternately, a sphere of annihilation). The entire farm is compacted into a singularity and/or obliterated from existence, and Punchbag is forced to follow it. Bye, Punchbag.

Repeat the above, except the farm is now just sitting there on the demiplane. Punchbag can farm it all he wants, but he can never escape or perform any action of note to the rest of the multiverse ever again, except maybe kill the haunting presence, which is his only company from then on. That's after a few millennia of ticking him off by doing all the work for him by animating all the farm tools.

Repeat the above with the haunting presence, except you send the farm to Sigil. Watch as his conflicting immunities destroy him.
...
Deaths: 47. Punchbag's farm is now immune to planar shenanigans and any effect that would cause it to be a hostile place for Punchbag to exist.

1: Forcefully don unto Punchbag an Unholy/Holy-Armor-Spikes Full Plate. You, of course, have an arbitrary amount of actions and can even follow wherever PB runs to.

2: Have an Anarchic-Axiomatic-Flying (i.e. Animated) Shield strap itself in Punchbag's arm.
Punchbag is immune to alignment-based effects.

Give yourself the Manipulate Form ability. Bestow the same to your familiar, which then bestows upon you the following ability: "Breath of Nonexistence (Ex): designate one creature. That creature and all the variants of that creature that exist everywhere, nowhere, anywhere, and elsewhen alive, dead, undead, unliving, and otherwise, in every possible and impossible timeline, within the multiverse and outside of it, as well as all of the variants and alternate versions thereof, all cease to exist at a magical, subatomic, and spiritual level. All traces are immediately and irrevocably gone, and there is no way to bring them back."
I subscribe to the interpretation of Manipulate Form that only allows it to grant existing abilities, rather than allowing you to make them up from whole cloth. Also, Punchbag is immune to effects that would totally eradicate him from existence.

Step 1: Make an Epic Spell that creates a new autokill condition that has "anyone who dies to this doesn't trigger or cause anything else, such as the adaptive evolution", and cast it.
You cannot work out how to research that Epic spell.

Iron Heart Surge adaptive evolution, and then all Punchbags' existence
Adaptive evolution is not affecting you, and as such you cannot IHS it.

Become a Hagunemnon, and turn into any version that is partly Punchbag. Hagunemnon doesn't get Natural or Extraordinary Abilities, and thus the immunities and adaptive evolution too, so start mass-producing such clones and kill them all.
You kill many creatures that look like Punchbag. Congratulations, I guess?

Use Summon Past Time Duplicate on it, which, while is not truly possessing negative levels (thus not triggering immunity), is still treated as having 2 negative levels.

Punchbag is immune to any effect that would dislocate him from the timestream.

Would it work if one would travel through time, went back before punchbag was born and used the dream of metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?121334-The-Dream-of-Metal) trick? Does this count if he was never born?

Additionally, if we killed his parents, does this count?

Deaths: 48. Punchbag is now acausal.

Gandariel

2015-11-24, 09:02 AM

How are you using Images to make an endless void, when Images are both finite in size and cannot make it look like things aren't there? You could do that with a Phantasm, but Punchbag is immune to mind-affecting things.

Cast an illusion that shows exactly what he's already seeing.
As soon as he makes a step to anywhere, recast the same illusion, but centered on his new position.

Also, destroy everything around him, just so he doesn't bump into anything.

Does this work?

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 09:07 AM

Adaptive evolution is not affecting you, and as such you cannot IHS it.It's definitely creating an effect similar to Fascinate on me, so I've no idea where this "not affecting" idea came from.

As for permanent incapacitation, cast Imprisonment again on PB, because it's specific enough that only Freedom can foil it, not Freedom of Movement. Use Alter Reality SDA on the spell (not on PB) to make it permanent.

Rubik

2015-11-24, 09:09 AM

I subscribe to the interpretation of Manipulate Form that only allows it to grant existing abilities, rather than allowing you to make them up from whole cloth.Use a variant of the epic spell Origin of Species to create a 10 HD creature capable of using the ability I described as a (Su) attack, take Metamorphic Transfer, Metamorphosis into that creature, and use Metamorphic Transfer with that ability to erase every Punchbag that does, doesn't, might, and might not exist from existence and non-existence.

[/thread]

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 09:14 AM

Use a variant of the epic spell Origin of Species to create a 10 HD creature capable of using the ability I described as a (Su) attack, take Metamorphic Transfer, Metamorphosis into that creature, and use Metamorphic Transfer with that ability to erase every Punchbag that does, doesn't, might, and might not exist from existence and non-existence.

[/thread]

Punchbag is immune to any effect that simply wipes him from existence.

Rubik

2015-11-24, 09:16 AM

Punchbag is immune to any effect that simply wipes him from existence.In that case, do the same thing, but make him (in all his variations) unable to affect or be affected by anything that exists, as well as unable to be perceived by anyone or anything in any way whatsoever. He (they) still exists, but he might as well not.

[edit] Note that this in no way triggers the last immunity I forced him into.

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 09:19 AM

cast a DC:Nope Curse of Lycanthrope on PB, for another autokill

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 09:31 AM

In that case, do the same thing, but make him (in all his variations) unable to affect or be affected by anything that exists, as well as unable to be perceived by anyone or anything in any way whatsoever. He (they) still exists, but he might as well not.

[edit] Note that this in no way triggers the last immunity I forced him into.

Deaths: 49. It works, but as Punchbag still exists he is capable of retroactively gaining an immunity that stops it working. There are two options for what that immunity is: Either you accept this as a point, and concede that doing the same thing over and over again with minor variations on what ability you give your new creature is against the spirit of the thread, in which case he becomes immune to effects that directly negate his ability to interact with the world, or you don't, in which case I see no option but to make him immune to all natural, extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities and to all Epic spells, which would have the effect of making you right about one thing - /thread.

GilesTheCleric

2015-11-24, 09:36 AM

Re the spell "Renewal": WotC doesn't make searching their online articles easy, nor does google cooperate with a search for such a generic term. You can find the spell on the-site-that-shall-not-be-named, though.

The rules for symbionts are incredibly vague; as long as the creature is two sizes smaller than the host, they can become its symbiont, I think.

Helluin

2015-11-24, 09:37 AM

Shape of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/shapeOfFire.htm)
Shadow of the Void (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/shadowOfTheVoid.htm)

I suppose that'd count as two deaths - ability score loss and HP loss

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 09:39 AM

Cast Amber Sarcophagus and use Alter Reality SDA on the spell (i.e. not on PB), disabling Punchbag from taking any actions. Note that the use of the term stasis only mean stabilized, instead of some magical/scifi mumbo jumbo. Also, by RAW it actually doesn't matter on his action-disability if PB gets out of the amber.

Perpetually Daze PB, using an arbitrary amount of actions/resources

Rubik

2015-11-24, 09:40 AM

Deaths: 49. It works, but as Punchbag still exists he is capable of retroactively gaining an immunity that stops it working. There are two options for what that immunity is: Either you accept this as a point, and concede that doing the same thing over and over again with minor variations on what ability you give your new creature is against the spirit of the thread, in which case he becomes immune to effects that directly negate his ability to interact with the world, or you don't, in which case I see no option but to make him immune to all natural, extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities and to all Epic spells, which would have the effect of making you right about one thing - /thread.Immunity to all those things, huh?

There's always non-transparency psionics. :smallbiggrin:

Also, there are several grafts and implants (such as Eberron's power link shards) which permanently reduce hp. UMD them so you can implant them into him. Implant enough that he's at -1 permanently and forever unable to act.

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 09:54 AM

Manifest DC:No Decerebrate on PB, causing him to die in 1d4 days.

Atomburster

2015-11-24, 10:34 AM

Okay, a couple of tries..

1 - Custom magic item of Reverse Gravity, having a permanent duration. Apply on Punchbag.
2 - A custom magic item of Disintegrate, targeting the ground beneath Punchbag, thus permanently 'incapacitating' him via making him fall repeatedly.
3 - An army of golems making trip attacks against Punchbag. Forever.
4 - Permanent Resilient Sphere effect on Punchbag.
5 - Permanent/Repeating Eyebite effect on Punchbag.
6 - Prismatic Spray (Specifically, the green effect.)
7 - Use Punchbag as a spell component for a custom epic spell.
8 - Disable Device on Punchbag (He's a golem now, right?)

torrasque666

2015-11-24, 11:11 AM

Manifest DC:No Decerebrate on PB, causing him to die in 1d4 days.

Relatively sure he's already immune to teleportation effects.

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 11:14 AM

Relatively sure he's already immune to teleportation effects.

He is, due to Decerebrate in fact. I really need to update the OP...

TheCrowing1432

2015-11-24, 12:11 PM

Couldnt I just Wish his immunities away?

Does Disintegration count as damage?

Does Flesh to Stone work?

Prime32

2015-11-24, 12:23 PM

In a campaign using the Sanity rules, have Punchbag stare at an army of Colossal undead lead by an evil deity.Does that not count as mind-affecting?Nope. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm#sanityPoints) It can't actually kill him, but it could cause "death of identity" or something.

Come to think of it...
Get yourself trapped in Ravenloft, then cast gate to bring Punchbag to your location. Creatures that enter Ravenloft can't leave under their own power, and if an effect would bring a creature to Ravenloft temporarily it instead traps them there permanently. If Punchbag tries to escape, Ravenloft is likely to absorb his farm into itself or create a fake one to trick him.
Now mess with his mind for centuries, replace his fertiliser with human entrails, etc. until he fails enough Dark Powers checks to become a darklord with his farm as his domain.

Platymus Pus

2015-11-24, 12:23 PM

I build an entire city around punchbag's farm then kill him using a spell that uses city damage.

Gandariel

2015-11-24, 12:33 PM

I'll try again since I wasn't really clear.

I'll use modern terminology but I'm sure you understand.

Take a 360° picture of the area around Punchbag, centered on Punchbag.

Build a lot of repeating traps of an Illusion spell, that project that exact image.

Put one in every 5x5 square around Punchbag.

Now, wherever he moves, every 5 feet he'll think he's back where he started.

He can Teleport back home and he'll be exactly in the same place.

He can try running in any direction, but he'll never go anywhere.

As such, he'll eventually stop, defeated.

noob

2015-11-24, 01:16 PM

Put everything in boiling water.
It deals scalding damage.

Hamste

2015-11-24, 02:22 PM

Dgrin

2015-11-24, 02:37 PM

Where are the rules for these items found? I've never heard of either of them. Also, Punchbag is immune to alignment-based effects.

Both are found in the Book of Vile Darkness, pages 120 and 122

Nettlekid

2015-11-24, 03:03 PM

Has anyone suggested Implosion yet? It's an Evocation spell (doesn't violate form like Transmutation) and it's an automatic death with no [Death] tag. Unless he's already immune to anything requiring a Fort save, like Undead are.

I feel like there's some secret in the construction here. People keep saying "go back in time until before he had an immunity" but he doesn't gain the immunities sequentially, he dies and then all parallel iterations have it. You're not changing anything on other planes. The question is, is there a way to interdimensionally murder him such that parallel versions can't gain immunity, because it was a parallel version that was killed? I'm not sure.

Alternatively, has anyone suggested introducing weevils or something to damage his crops? With the crops gone he'll have to take a loan in order to feed his family, because he's not equipped for any other kind of livelihood. You then serve as a loan shark and eventually extort him out of house and home, or you bring his failure to uphold your unreasonable demands to a judge, and Punchbag is imprisoned. He's now out of everyone's hair.

As another path to the above, you spoil his farm, request escalating demands to pay off his debt to you, and then bring his eventual breach of contract to an Inevitable. When the Inevitable goes to kill Punchbag, it will be unable to. Let the infinite minds of Mechanus figure out how to take him down.

Afgncaap5

2015-11-24, 03:17 PM

Essence_of_War

2015-11-24, 03:58 PM

In discussions of the Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?101587-D-amp-D-3-5-The-Emerald-Legion-Mass-Producing-Ikea-Tarrasques), a couple esoteric vulnerabilities come up that I don't see Punchbag immune to yet.

1) Non-spell Disintegration - The Umbral Blot (ELH) and Pyroclastic Dragon (Draconomicon) both have non-HP-damage disintegration effects. The former is an Ex fort-save-or-not-even-dust touch, while the latter has a Su Disintegration Breath that is not based on HP damage either.

2) Ex Brain Eating - an Illithid that attaches all 4 of its tentacles can extract Punchbag's brain, instantly killing him as long as he's not a construct, elemental, ooze, plant, or undead. Or has multiple heads. This might be tricky/mediated by PunchBag's Freedom of Movement, though.

3) Sphere of Annihilation - A different type of disintegration? I have no idea, the description is really vague, but I guess this is a supernatural disintegration effect?

OldTrees1

2015-11-24, 04:19 PM

Is our goal to keep finding *new* ways to kill him, or to try to kill him once and for all?

If the latter, is there a way to destroy every plane of reality except for one, and to do it simultaneously so that all those other planes of reality stop existing at a synchronized moment so that the other planar variations of him won't gain the immunity to that method except for the one you're left with?

Hopefully it is just to keep finding new ways to kill him. Trying to kill him once and for all is a pan-reality problem (affecting every plane of reality only affects 1 reality). While such a challenge is potentially possible(as in the problem can be expressed, some parts can be solved, and the remaining parts have not been proven to be unsolvable) but it is really really hard.

1) You need acausal pan-reality cooperation. You need at least 1 person in each reality to agree to cooperate in the endeavor without there being a causal interaction.
2) You need acausal pan-reality perfect timing coordination. You need everyone cooperating to kill the target at the exact same time.
3) You need a means of killing the target that still works.

Parts 1&3 are relatively easy parts of this problem, it is part 2 that becomes increasingly impossible due to its own restrictions and the additional restrictions resulting from the solutions chosen for 1&3.

smasher0404

2015-11-24, 04:34 PM

if permanent incapacitation is an option instead of killing, gather an army of relatively high level Killorens (Races of the Wild) with the the Killoren Destroyer feat. 9 of them each use their smite attack, which while doing no damage, if it hits (specific wording is "struck") forces a will save on Punchbag or be dazed, losing actions for one round. With proper logistics, the Killoren army can probably keep Punchbag dazed forever, unable to take actions. As the elderly Killorens die off, they will be replaced with drafted Killorens with the Killoren Destroyer feat. The daze is not inflicted by either spell or mind-affecting ability, and does not actually deal any damage.

Heliomance

2015-11-24, 05:01 PM

Hopefully it is just to keep finding new ways to kill him. Trying to kill him once and for all is a pan-reality problem (affecting every plane of reality only affects 1 reality). While such a challenge is potentially possible(as in the problem can be expressed, some parts can be solved, and the remaining parts have not been proven to be unsolvable) but it is really really hard.

1) You need acausal pan-reality cooperation. You need at least 1 person in each reality to agree to cooperate in the endeavor without there being a causal interaction.
2) You need acausal pan-reality perfect timing coordination. You need everyone cooperating to kill the target at the exact same time.
3) You need a means of killing the target that still works.

Parts 1&3 are relatively easy parts of this problem, it is part 2 that becomes increasingly impossible due to its own restrictions and the additional restrictions resulting from the solutions chosen for 1&3.

Yeah, I just want to see how long you can keep coming up with new ways to kill him for. You've all been pretty disturbingly inventive so far! Killing every Punchbag everywhere once and for all is no fun - then the thread's over.

People complain about moving goalposts every time one of these "bet you can't kill my monster" threads comes up. I wanted to make one where the moving goalposts were the entire point.

Dusk Raven

2015-11-24, 05:03 PM

Does anyone feel monumentally bad for Punchbag at this point? It's a good thing none of this seems to get to him, and he's happy to just work on his farm.

Punchbag is never willing.

I think at this point it should be blatantly obvious that no effect that requires his cooperation in any way will work. All he wants to do is tend his farm. That said, I expect someone to find a way to kill him by getting him to do exactly that. I expect illusions will be involved - he's immune to mind-affecting effects, but he's not immune to being deceived by illusions that have substance outside his mind. Or mundane deceptions.

1) Do you have rules text on the effects of knowledge (forbidden lore)?
2) Punchbag isn't gaining XP, how's he supposed to gain new knowledge ranks?

If it works anything like the Cthulhu Mythos skill from the Call of Cthulhu d20 conversion, then it's a "skill" you can gain ranks in by special methods outside of leveling up, which are indeed the only way to get ranks in it. That said, I would imagine they require you to comprehend what you're reading, in this case, and I don't know of any effect (at least in CoC d20) that would force someone to gain them.

There are no rules governing the effects of antimatter. Nothing happens.

There technically are - I think there's rules for an antimatter rifle in the DMG. It deals damage. Which he's immune to. Not sure what sort of damage having your atoms utterly removed from existence would be, but I'm sure he's immune to it. Especially if you don't have enough antimatter to actually annihilate him, which is the case with antimatter weapons, in which case it's just a spectacular explosion.

The truly foul taste is fluff text. Punchbag is immune to being eaten. Alternatively, the foul taste is magic and even creatures without a sense of taste are disgusted by it :P

Initially I thought he would have been immune to being eaten on account of his immunity to damage, but before this happened he was immune to digested, not being swallowed, with the result that he'd be indefinitely incapacitated, with an uncomfortable future (probably) ahead of him and the swallowing creature. Of course, at that point, I would imagine his "can pass through solid objects" trait would save him. Good thing we tried that fist.

...Wait, his immunities are retroactive. So he doesn't need an immunity to being swallowed, he's immune to it by definition, whether by passing through solid objects or Freedom of Movement. I can hear you all now: "Thanks, Dusk, you reduced his deaths by one!" I consider that an accomplishment.

What even is that spell? Deaths: 38. Punchbag is now a stolid sort, and cares naught for visual distractions, gaze attacks, and the like.

I think what spell it is, is irrelevant. Simply an actual nymph would have accomplished the same.

Does that not count as mind-affecting?

That really depends on how you define a mind-affecting effect. From what I understand of sanity, it's not an effect, it's an actual mechanic that's a part of your character.

Deaths: 40. Punchbag is now immune to critical hits (and how ridiculous is it that he needed that despite the immunity to damage?)

I wondered about that too. I guess, with the coup de grace move, that particular caveat is there in case you're fighting something with regeneration and have no other way to harm it.

...why do deities need so many different ways to kill people? I can't think of any smaller category, so:
Deaths: 45. Punchbag is now immune to Salient Divine Abilities.

It's at this point I have to ask, are we only accepting material from D&D proper? Or do highly-similar but fundamentally the same rules like d20 Modern and Call of Cthulhu d20 work? Call of Cthulhu d20 in particular has some stuff that hasn't been covered - contained in a section that's explicitly for use in actual D&D.

That's all I can think of. Sorry for reducing his deaths, I will find a way to correct that.

ExLibrisMortis

2015-11-24, 05:13 PM

daremetoidareyo

2015-11-24, 05:14 PM

Luhix is a drug, not a poison. They function similarly, but are in different categories, rules wise.

An overdose of liquid pain renders punching bag unconscious, which sends his soul to the plane of dreams, where he can be drug into the dream heart and double luhixed by the jaunter in my earlier post. Death in the dreamheart = death in the real world.

Bucky

2015-11-24, 05:23 PM

Sayt

2015-11-24, 05:32 PM

I don't think Imprisonment has been mentioned: It's an abjuration, does not have the teleportation tag, and the underground is on his own plane. A Punchbag goes into a ball under a mountain indefinitely.

EDIT: Actually, this may not work: Imprisonment (PF version, at least) references a Transmutaion spell for how the temporal stasis aspect works. Without this, he can do the shadowcat thing.

Draken

2015-11-24, 05:55 PM

Three things I believe have not been mentioned yet.

1. Implosion is a non-damage, non-death effect, spell of the Evocation school. - Mentioned before, but not yet addressed, so reiterating!

2. Divine Splendor is a keyword-less salient divine ability that automatically kills mortals who come near the god who has it.

3. Annihilating Strike is another salient divine ability that keys off of physical attacks. It's description indicates that it is a disintegration effect, however.

4. Punching bag is not a specific individual, but a large number of creatures sharing a similar trait, but that are, at their base, level 1 humans commoners. As humans, they have varied alignments. As creatures with an alignment, they can be killed by the appropriate variation of the Holy Word spell (that is, Blasphemy, Dictum, Holy Word, Word of Balance and Word of Chaos) cast by a creature with a caster level of, at least, 11. These spells all share the sonic descriptor (but do no sonic damage) so presumably Punching Bag becomes immune to their shared attribute, of being sound effects. The quest then becomes to find killing spells that key off of nothing but alignment effects. Checked and alignment effects are already in.
---

Also, I am not sure if this was ever answered, but I saw the question, so here is one thing I repeat ever so often on these forums. The epic spell Nailed to the Sky has the rules for vacuums. It essentially does 2d6 damage per round from heat or cold plus 1d4 untyped damage from the vacuum itself.

A black hole would essentially be a lot of physical damage, it is nothing magical. A sun similarly would just be fire and falling damage.

Sapreaver

2015-11-24, 06:27 PM

not sure if posted by Vile damage and Divine damage Taint effect, Sanity, Orb of annihilation, the rare vacuum damage. He's not immune to dismemberment although how you'd do that and not to damage, but just take him apart. I'm sure there are some grafts/symbiotes that would kill him.

Afgncaap5

2015-11-24, 06:58 PM

So, what about Profession (Executioner)? The hard part is catching Punchbag in a helpless position without using grappling or tying him down, but I maintain it can be done if you pay close enough attention. And if memory serves, the death doesn't come as a death effect or hit point loss, and while a coup de grace technically *does* happen, I think that's only if the initial Executioner check fails for some reason.

Surpriser

2015-11-24, 07:01 PM

Interestingly, while the spell Wail of the Banshee is a death effect (and thus PB is immune), a wail of a banshee (MM2) is not. Go figure...
Fort Save 26, so PB will fail it quite probably and die.

ben-zayb

2015-11-24, 07:05 PM

I don't think Imprisonment has been mentioned.Someone already did, but Heliomance's adaptive evolution gave Punchbag Freedom of Movement, which doesn't do a thing against Imprisonment. So I used imprisonment again, and am still waiting for PB to be either have continuous Freedom or immunity to Imprisonment.

2. Divine Splendor is a keyword-less salient divine ability that automatically kills mortals who come near the god who has it.

3. Annihilating Strike is another salient divine ability that keys off of physical attacks. It's description indicates that it is a disintegration effect, however.
I already mentioned the multiple ways of a deity to kill PB, including the one where the deity does the Killing Joke, so PB's immune to SDAs now.

Rubik

2015-11-24, 08:09 PM

NeoPhoenix0

2015-11-24, 10:04 PM

Does punchbag's farm's immunity to becoming hostile to punchbag prevent the area from becoming a black hole?

If it doesn't this can be accomplished by chain casting arcane fusion: sanctum arcane fusion + hail of stone until the area gains enough mass to collapse into a black hole.

I'll see if i can come u[ with anything else for this.

Jack_Simth

2015-11-24, 10:35 PM

So, what about Profession (Executioner)? The hard part is catching Punchbag in a helpless position without using grappling or tying him downDoes he still go to sleep at the end of the day?

Afgncaap5

2015-11-25, 12:44 AM

Does he still go to sleep at the end of the day?

I *assume* he does, but the fact that he's not reliant on biological processes means he probably doesn't have to. If it was me, I'd probably want to still indulge in the luxury of sleeping from time to time, but I honestly can't say. That's a worldbuilding/lore call, so it's up to the DM.

Auron3991

2015-11-25, 01:51 AM

Can we use alter reality to make it a law of the material plane that Punchbag is dead (as it doesn't wipe him from existence, count as a death effect, or directly effect Punchbag)?

And I'll be shocked if this flies, but have to try it: diplomacy high enough to convert him to fanatic, convince his soul to leave his body.

KuramtheWicked

2015-11-25, 02:27 AM

I don't know if this is considered a Death Effect or not but ill throw it in anyway. The Devastating Grapple from the Reaping Mauler PrC combined with power word stun, since stun isn't affected by freedom of movement.

Xervous

2015-11-25, 02:52 AM

-- Can't remember if punchbag is immune to ability score penalties yet but if not... bestow curse and bestow curse greater to give him 0 in an ability score. He's either dead or permanently immobile.
-> Reasonable evolution being he's now immune to changes to his ability scores

Caveat: This requires the assumption that the roll for Greater Bestow Curse to determine whether or not the victim can act is performed by the victim.

Greater Bestow Curse for the 75% failure to act coupled with Bestow Curse for an additional 50% failure (for efficiency of course). Spam alter fortune onto him with repeating spelltraps to give him a rounds worth of actions every day or so... heck, one action every few centuries if we stack enough traps.

Endarire

2015-11-25, 03:03 AM

What is the purpose of this exercise?

Also, petrification (medusa, flesh to stone, etc.) and crystallization (crystallize power) come to mind.

Auron3991

2015-11-25, 03:06 AM

What is the purpose of this exercise?

To see just how many different ways we can use to kill something

Heliomance

2015-11-25, 04:58 AM

OP updated. I'll get around to responding to the latest attempts in a bit.

Acanous

2015-11-25, 06:38 AM

Wish him into a George R.R. Martin novel.
Bit of a Reach, but a Nightmare Spinner (adaptation section) Dread Witch using Irresistable Spell Phantasmal Killer? Bypasses immunity to mind effecting, bypasses immunity to fear, no save, just die.

Further, to borrow an argument from Jack_Simth;

How it works:
Wish, Limited Wish, and Miracle all have their own school and descriptor line. They all duplicate other spells.

By the standard inheritance rules, anything specified in the spell you're actually casting overrides the stuff that the spell text says it acts like. So Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) is still a Sor/Wiz 4, has a material component, is touch range, requires the subject be living, and lasts minutes/level, even though the spell it refrences (Alter Self) is Sor/Wiz 2, has no material component, is personal range, has no restriction on the subject's creature type, and lasts ten minutes/level.

So when Limited Wish inherits from Charm Monster, the school and descriptor line of Limited Wish overrides the school and descriptor line of Charm Monster... thus, that duplicated casting of Charm Monster is no longer mind-affecting. Have fun Charming constructs and undead.

Wish for a Destruction effect on Punchbag.

Jack_Simth

2015-11-25, 08:20 AM

Further, to borrow an argument from Jack_Smith;
When you're quoting me, is it so much to ask that you spell my screen name correctly?

Rubik

2015-11-25, 08:35 AM

When you're quoting me, is it so much to ask that you spell my screen name correctly?Probably, Mr. Anderson Smith. :smalltongue:

Atomburster

2015-11-25, 08:41 AM

Repeated applications of Control Body on Punchbag?

Rubik

2015-11-25, 08:48 AM

Repeated applications of Control Body on Punchbag?Alas, he is immune to attempts to control his actions.

Atomburster

2015-11-25, 10:31 AM

Alas, he is immune to attempts to control his actions.

But Control Body doesn't technically control his actions, does it? The subject can still take mental actions and whatnot.

It's just that his body is being controlled. Prisoner of your own body and stuff.

---

My next attempt is a automatic Disintegrate effect on the ground beneath him, so he falls forever, thus making him incapacitated, even if he triggers his teleport home at will ability.

yellowrocket

2015-11-25, 10:56 AM

I summon a terrasque to eat the farm. Punch bag is eaten and because he must stay with his farm. Because he is in the terrasque he is immobilized.

OldTrees1

2015-11-25, 11:30 AM

I already destroyed the entirety of the multiverse. It didn't take.

I also managed to destroy every copy of him simultaneously. It didn't take, either.

The first I can find but I find no attempt on your part to kill him in more than one reality simultaneously. How did you overcome the acausal coordination problem?

Platymus Pus

2015-11-25, 01:30 PM

Whenever Punchbag dies (or otherwise becomes permanently incapacitated), all other versions of Punchbag in every alternate reality become immune to whatever killed Punchbag. I will be interpreting this broadly - if you kill him with a Fireball, he will become immune to all energy damage.
Write a fanfiction where Punchbag dies no matter what, write it where this punch bags death takes away the immunities of all the other punchbags in existence and creates a domino effect of all the punch bags dying at the same time.
GG NO RE.

ShurikVch

2015-11-25, 02:22 PM

How about the bit of killing humor from Dragon magazine?

Since Punchbag is a Commoner, I invoke infamous Flaws for Commoners!
Peasant Hat - if titular hat is removed, crows will peck your exposed brain, and you will die
Pig Bound - if you get too far from your pig, it will turn into Orcus and skin you alive
Corpse - you are dead

Also, if Punchbag is, accidentally, Kobold, there is a feat from Ecology of Adventurers:
Elf - you spontaneously polymorphed into Elf, and was immediately killed by nearby kobolds

Helluin

2015-11-25, 03:00 PM

Hmmm... In addition to having a big T swallow poor Punchbag's farm, would researching an epic spell that awakens his farm as a Genius Locorum (ELH) and have the farm-turned-genius-locorum Nailed to the Sky (Epic Spell) work? I mean, Punchbag is immune to transmutation, and the farm cannot become hostile, or be moved to a different plane. But in this case his farm is not necessarily hostile, nor is it on a different plane. Punchbag gets to farm from the orbit.

If that doesn't count as disabling him since he can still farm, have a defiler drain his farm completely. He would be trapped in the orbit, never able to abandon his now sterile land, and yet have absolutely nothing to do.

Yet another try: would releasing the Pandorym work?

ExLibrisMortis

2015-11-25, 04:54 PM

Yet another try: would releasing the Pandorym work?
I think that would be a case of stabbing yourself in the chest so that nobody can hurt you anymore. also something that doesn't work in D&D

Pippin

2015-11-25, 05:11 PM

I find this thread very entertaining. Good job Heliomance :D

Jack_Simth

2015-11-25, 05:56 PM

Probably, Mr. Anderson Smith. :smalltongue:

And you're missing it too. :frown:

Rubik

2015-11-25, 06:47 PM

And you're missing it too. :frown:Oh, no. I got it. I was just being snarky.

FocusWolf413

2015-11-25, 07:01 PM

Is he immune to the heat death of the universe?

Rubik

2015-11-25, 07:04 PM

Is he immune to the heat death of the universe?He's immune to the multiverse's destruction via OP fiat, so I imagine so.

MilleniaAntares

2015-11-25, 11:20 PM

If you allow for third party Pathfinder material:

A tactician with Spirit of the Many (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/tactician/#TOC-Spirit-of-Many-Su-) uses Unwilling Participant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/unwilling-participant-psionic) to bring Punchbag into her collective (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/tactician/#TOC-Collective-Su-).

The text of Spirit of the Many states (emphasis mine): "Whenever a tactician manifests a power with the Network descriptor targeting only members of his collective, the power loses the mind-affecting descriptor (if it had it) and is treated as a supernatural ability (bypassing Power Resistance and becoming immune to dispel attempts), although it still provokes an attacks of opportunity to manifest as normal."

So, the tactician can use a power such as Deadly Fear (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/d/deadly-fear) in conjunction with Shared Power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/shared-power-metapsionic), which as stated above removes the mind-affecting descriptor.

As such, Punchbag dies if he fails both saves.

Dgrin

2015-11-26, 03:22 AM

As Punchbag is immune to alignment-related stuff, here is the modified version of my methods pending ruling:

1. Mindrape Bob, the Friendly Commoner (Or Jane, the Friendly Commoner, if you're feeling conservative) into loving the Punchbag. Give him the Death Rock. In a week, his dearest loved Punchbag is automatically slain and turned into zombie that serves the owner.

2. Use Sleight of Hand to reverse-steal the Death Rock into Punchbag's pocket. Having the ability to cast as Sorcerer, he is now considered an arcane spellcaster. Now convince him to read the Manual of Puissant Skill at Arms or bluff him into thinking it is his paycheck, or Ye Grande Olde Grimour of Happy Farming, or even just hold it before his eyes so he will read a word as a reflex. Upon reading at least one word he loses 2d6*1000 XP.

Item descriptions for reference (relevant parts bolded):

Death Rock: This object is said to be the heart of an evil demon lord or evil demigod, cut from his chest in a terrible battle with a woman invested with celestial powers who sought vengeance for the wrongs of the evil being and its cult. The Death Rock is a crude black stone the size of a fist that pulses like a beating heart.
Anyone possessing the Death Rock gains the spellcasting abilities of a sorcerer of a level equal to his own. The character knows only spells of the Necromancy school. If the character is already a sorcerer, the new spells known and extra spells per day are in addition to his own.
The Death Rock has a drawback. Once per week, the closest companion or dearest loved one of the Death Rock’s owner is automatically slain and turned into a zombie that serves the owner. The owner may forsake the Death Rock to
prevent this (or he might run out of companions or loved ones), but then the Death Rock immediately fades away.

Manual of Puissant Skill at Arms: This treatise contains expert advice and instruction in the arts of combat. Any barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, or ranger who spends one week studying the manual gains a +1 inherent bonus to Strength and experience points sufficient to place him halfway into the next level of experience. (If the reader has levels in more than one of the classes listed, he must choose one of the classes to be affected.)
A character without any levels in one of the classes listed gains no bonus from the work, but if an arcane spellcaster without levels in one of the classes listed scans even a single word she will lose 2d6×1,000 XP and must make a Will save (DC 20) or have 1 point of Intelligence permanently drained.
Except as indicated above, the writing in a manual of puissant skill at arms can’t be distinguished from any other book, libram, tome, or so on until perused. Once read, the book vanishes, never to be seen again, nor can the same character ever benefit from reading a similar tome a second time.
Caster Level: 19th; Weight: 3 lb.

ShurikVch

2015-11-26, 06:56 AM

Missed Opportunities

Assorted obscure damage types
Disease that doesn't rely on ability damage
I don't get it - how is it a "missed opportunity"? :smallconfused:
Punchbag don't have immunity to disease, nor to Fort effects in general
Why is it "Missing"?
Just because it's rather obvious, but nobody actually mentioned it?

Rubik

2015-11-26, 07:00 AM

I don't get it - how is it a "missed opportunity"? :smallconfused:
Punchbag don't have immunity to disease, nor to Fort effects in general
Why is it "Missing"?
Just because it's rather obvious, but nobody actually mentioned it?He's immune to ability damage, which diseases generally inflict.

ShurikVch

2015-11-26, 07:07 AM

He's immune to ability damage, which diseases generally inflict.Warp Touch (Book of Vile Darkness):
When a character falls victim to this disease, roll on the previous table.
d% Description/Effect
01–10 Body turns to formless jelly; character dies.

Dusk Raven

2015-11-26, 03:03 PM

Hmmm... In addition to having a big T swallow poor Punchbag's farm, would researching an epic spell that awakens his farm as a Genius Locorum (ELH) and have the farm-turned-genius-locorum Nailed to the Sky (Epic Spell) work? I mean, Punchbag is immune to transmutation, and the farm cannot become hostile, or be moved to a different plane. But in this case his farm is not necessarily hostile, nor is it on a different plane. Punchbag gets to farm from the orbit.

If that doesn't count as disabling him since he can still farm, have a defiler drain his farm completely. He would be trapped in the orbit, never able to abandon his now sterile land, and yet have absolutely nothing to do.

I generally wait for the OP to comment on things, but... do either of those methods prevent him from just making a new farm?

Hecuba

2015-11-26, 10:05 PM

Is Punchbag immune to damage, or death by damage? If the later, Arcane Archer's Arrow of Death doesn't have any effect types. Not a Death effect or anything else on the list, just SP fort save or die.

Edit: drat. Clarified on the first page.

Well, in that case, artifacts it is:
1). Use slight of hand to put the Third Imaskarcana (DotU) onto his person, then use ventriloquism to make him believe it is talking to him. If necessary, disrupt his farm operations and use ventriloquism to have it appear the book is claiming reasonability. When he eventually issues a command or question, he will be destroyed unless he happens to speak it in Roushoum.

2). Get someone to tap him repeatedly with the Wand of Orcus (BoVD). As he is not an outsider, he has to fort save our die for each tap.

3). Once a year, find a minion to send to the farm with the Shattering Swords of Coronal Ynloeth and use the 1/year reflex save or die. (PGtF) Multiple minions may be necessary, as the effect also kills the person using the sword.

4). Get a minion (hereafter Bob). Force Bob to consider Punchbag his friend. Kill all of Bob's other friends and family. Hand Bob the Death Rock (BoVD). A week later , Punchbag will be automatically slain because he is Bob's "closest companion or dearest loved one" (though his immunity to transformation will prevent him from becoming a zombie).

Edit again: Ooh- we've not abused spell clocks yet. Let's see... Be a specialist transmitter taking the UA Varient to get Spell Versatility. Take Arcane Disciple to get Bite of the King from the Gluttony domain, using Spell Versatility to make it transmutation instead of necromancy. Take Archmage and get Arcane reach to make the touch attack a ranged touch attack. Despite sending the target to a Stomach Dimension, the spell is not actually a teleportation effect. Despite now being a Transmutation spell, it doesn't actually transform Punchbag (or anything else).

Make a spell clock of your modified Bite of the King spell, activating at some arbitrarily fast frequency. Place it on the farm in a central location. Being in the stomach dimension is not actually dangerous to Punchbag because of his damage immunity. The farm remains perfectly hospitable.

He can even escape the stomach dimension at will, but the spell clock will just send him back. As a result, he ends up in an infinite spiral of Farm to Stomach to Farm: never harmed but never capable of doing anything except escaping back to his farm.

Starbuck_II

2015-11-27, 12:50 AM

Has anyone mention Implosion spell?
It is not a Death Effect. Just kills you.

Misery Esquire

2015-11-27, 01:39 AM

Planar Ally or build a golem to sunder everything he owns and disarm him of anything he picks up, then sunder it. He won't die, but he won't be doing much.

Cockatrice's Petrification bite works still, I believe?
And in that line, Chaos Beasts' Corporal Instability should as well.

Create Greater Undead for a Devourer ; have the Devourer use Trap Essence on him.

Fabricate or otherwise place an arch 7-12" thick above him. Reverse Gravity him, and then flip upside-down onto the arch yourself. Trip him. He is now on whatever is the next viable surface to stand on directly above his farm, which is entirely dependent on cosmology of the game.

Wall of X, or otherwise seal in his far Nevermind, he doesn't breathe.

Have any sort of Lycanthrope bite and infect him. ...Mostly for amusement.

Cast Blasphemy, Dictum, Word of Chaos or Holy Word at a high enough level (Actually, Punchbag is level 1, anyone able to cast those spells is already sufficiently levelled) to trigger the kill effect.

Stick him with 20+ Howler quills, with a -20 to all skill checks he won't be doing anything.

Use Earthquake while standing next to him until it triggers the auto-kill effect.

Have 6 sufficiently levelled clerics stand around, above and below him, keeping up a 24 hour Antilife Shell.

MilleniaAntares

2015-11-27, 02:57 AM

Like before, this only applies if you allow third party Pathfinder material:

Storm of Iron Fists Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/broken-blade-maneuvers) can be used to bring his HP down to -1, which gives him the dying (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Dying-Negative-Hit-Points-) condition.

If the "lose 1 hit point every round" aspect of dying does not count as damage, then he dies if he reaches -10.

If it does count as damage, then he is still unconscious and thus unable to interact with the world. And so, according to the rules of healing naturally (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Stable-Characters-and-Recovery), he could be hit with this ability once an hour to make him unconscious again - and thus keep him indefinitely unable to meaningfully interact with the rest of the world.

Tedective

2015-11-27, 04:40 AM

Punchbag

Nonpreventable damage?
Hit points sacrificed upon creating Homunculi as a Blood Magus.
Hit points lost when a Tainted Sorcerer uses his blood as an expensive material component.
Piercing Cold metamagic from Frostburn which bypasses cold immunity.

Is its immunity ability an Ex ability?
If not, antimagic.

Kill someone really close to Punchbag, grief can sometimes kill.

And if everyone simply forgot about Punchbag, his existence wouldn't even matter.

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 05:49 AM

Re the spell "Renewal": WotC doesn't make searching their online articles easy, nor does google cooperate with a search for such a generic term. You can find the spell on the-site-that-shall-not-be-named, though.

+++ERROR ERROR ERROR+++
+++DIVIDE BY CUCUMBER+++
+++REDO FROM START+++

Shape of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/shapeOfFire.htm)
Shadow of the Void (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/shadowOfTheVoid.htm)

I suppose that'd count as two deaths - ability score loss and HP loss
Deaths: 50. Punchbag is now immune to any effect that would reduce his health in any way. Punchbag is now immune to any effect that would reduce his ability scores in any way.

Cast Amber Sarcophagus and use Alter Reality SDA on the spell (i.e. not on PB), disabling Punchbag from taking any actions. Note that the use of the term stasis only mean stabilized, instead of some magical/scifi mumbo jumbo. Also, by RAW it actually doesn't matter on his action-disability if PB gets out of the amber.

I think the immunity to being dislocated from the timestream covers the stasis, and the ability to pass through solid objects gets him out of the sarcophagus.

Okay, a couple of tries..

1 - Custom magic item of Reverse Gravity, having a permanent duration. Apply on Punchbag.
2 - A custom magic item of Disintegrate, targeting the ground beneath Punchbag, thus permanently 'incapacitating' him via making him fall repeatedly.
Deaths: 51. Punchbag can now fly (perfect maneuverability, non-magical, not reliant on wings. Don't question it.)

3 - An army of golems making trip attacks against Punchbag. Forever.
Deaths: 52. Punchbag can now become completely intangible at will.

4 - Permanent Resilient Sphere effect on Punchbag.
Punchbag is immune to force effects.

5 - Permanent/Repeating Eyebite effect on Punchbag.
Deaths: 53. Punchbag is now immune to all status effects that would prevent him from taking actions.

6 - Prismatic Spray (Specifically, the green effect.)
Punchbag is immune to poison.

7 - Use Punchbag as a spell component for a custom epic spell.
Good luck convincing the DM to allow a spell with a person as a component.

8 - Disable Device on Punchbag (He's a golem now, right?)
No, where did you get that idea?

Couldnt I just Wish his immunities away?
No, by fiat and it not being in the safe limits of the spell. Sorry.

Does Disintegration count as damage?

Does Flesh to Stone work?
Punchbag is immune to all transmutation effects.

Nope. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm#sanityPoints) It can't actually kill him, but it could cause "death of identity" or something.
Deaths: 54. Punchbag is now immune to sanity loss.

Come to think of it...
Get yourself trapped in Ravenloft, then cast gate to bring Punchbag to your location. Creatures that enter Ravenloft can't leave under their own power, and if an effect would bring a creature to Ravenloft temporarily it instead traps them there permanently. If Punchbag tries to escape, Ravenloft is likely to absorb his farm into itself or create a fake one to trick him.
Now mess with his mind for centuries, replace his fertiliser with human entrails, etc. until he fails enough Dark Powers checks to become a darklord with his farm as his domain.
Deaths: 55. Punchbag's ability to return home now works regardless of any effect that would prevent it. Punchbag's farm was already immune to planar shenanigans.

I build an entire city around punchbag's farm then kill him using a spell that uses city damage.
Punchbag is immune to damage.

Has anyone suggested Implosion yet? It's an Evocation spell (doesn't violate form like Transmutation) and it's an automatic death with no [Death] tag. Unless he's already immune to anything requiring a Fort save, like Undead are.
Deaths: 56. Punchbag's form is now utterly inviolate, and cannot be altered by any means, physical or magical.

In discussions of the Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?101587-D-amp-D-3-5-The-Emerald-Legion-Mass-Producing-Ikea-Tarrasques), a couple esoteric vulnerabilities come up that I don't see Punchbag immune to yet.

1) Non-spell Disintegration - The Umbral Blot (ELH) and Pyroclastic Dragon (Draconomicon) both have non-HP-damage disintegration effects. The former is an Ex fort-save-or-not-even-dust touch, while the latter has a Su Disintegration Breath that is not based on HP damage either.
Punchbag is immune to all transmutation effects, and any attempts to change his form by other means.

2) Ex Brain Eating - an Illithid that attaches all 4 of its tentacles can extract Punchbag's brain, instantly killing him as long as he's not a construct, elemental, ooze, plant, or undead. Or has multiple heads. This might be tricky/mediated by PunchBag's Freedom of Movement, though.
Indeed, Freedom of Movement kills it.

3) Sphere of Annihilation - A different type of disintegration? I have no idea, the description is really vague, but I guess this is a supernatural disintegration effect?
Punchbag is immune to Sudden Massive Existence Failure.

if permanent incapacitation is an option instead of killing, gather an army of relatively high level Killorens (Races of the Wild) with the the Killoren Destroyer feat. 9 of them each use their smite attack, which while doing no damage, if it hits (specific wording is "struck") forces a will save on Punchbag or be dazed, losing actions for one round. With proper logistics, the Killoren army can probably keep Punchbag dazed forever, unable to take actions. As the elderly Killorens die off, they will be replaced with drafted Killorens with the Killoren Destroyer feat. The daze is not inflicted by either spell or mind-affecting ability, and does not actually deal any damage.
Punchbag is immune to any status effect that would cause him to be unable to take actions.

Platymus Pus

2015-11-27, 05:59 AM

Pretty sure that's 57 deaths.
You can just write about him dying and he'll die after all.

Rubik

2015-11-27, 06:04 AM

Good luck convincing the DM to allow a spell with a person as a component.If you can use a live spider as a material component, other non-dead creatures aren't automatically off-limits, if you can find a spell that will use one. I found a way to use Simulacrum in well under a standard action, so that should count as one of the deaths.

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 06:08 AM

I also managed to destroy every copy of him simultaneously. It didn't take, either.
No you didn't, he was immune to existence failure by the time you tried that. You did manage to render every copy of him unable to interact with anything, but then he gained an immunity (incrementing the Death counter) and became able to interact with things again.

Does he still go to sleep at the end of the day?
He does indeed still sleep.

Can we use alter reality to make it a law of the material plane that Punchbag is dead (as it doesn't wipe him from existence, count as a death effect, or directly effect Punchbag)?
I see nothing in the text of Alter Reality that would allow it to do that.

And I'll be shocked if this flies, but have to try it: diplomacy high enough to convert him to fanatic, convince his soul to leave his body.
Punchbag is never willing.

-- Can't remember if punchbag is immune to ability score penalties yet but if not... bestow curse and bestow curse greater to give him 0 in an ability score. He's either dead or permanently immobile.
-> Reasonable evolution being he's now immune to changes to his ability scores
Punchbag is immune to ability score penalties. Punchbag is immune to any effect that would lower his ability scores.

Caveat: This requires the assumption that the roll for Greater Bestow Curse to determine whether or not the victim can act is performed by the victim.

Greater Bestow Curse for the 75% failure to act coupled with Bestow Curse for an additional 50% failure (for efficiency of course). Spam alter fortune onto him with repeating spelltraps to give him a rounds worth of actions every day or so... heck, one action every few centuries if we stack enough traps.
I'm going to say that's covered by Punchbag's immunity to status effects that would cause him to lose actions.

Repeated applications of Control Body on Punchbag?
Punchbag is immune to any effect that would control his actions.

But Control Body doesn't technically control his actions, does it? The subject can still take mental actions and whatnot.

It's just that his body is being controlled. Prisoner of your own body and stuff.
Still counts, I'm

My next attempt is a automatic Disintegrate effect on the ground beneath him, so he falls forever, thus making him incapacitated, even if he triggers his teleport home at will ability.
Punchbag can fly.

I summon a terrasque to eat the farm. Punch bag is eaten and because he must stay with his farm. Because he is in the terrasque he is immobilized.
Punchbag is immune to being eaten. Punchbag's farm is immune to any effect that would make it hostile to Punchbag.

Write a fanfiction where Punchbag dies no matter what, write it where this punch bags death takes away the immunities of all the other punchbags in existence and creates a domino effect of all the punch bags dying at the same time.
GG NO RE.
You write a fanfiction where this happens. It gets slammed by reviewers, apart from a few whose reviews read like they were typing with boxing gloves on. Punchbag continues farming, oblivious to the existence of your fanfic.

How about the bit of killing humor from Dragon magazine?

Since Punchbag is a Commoner, I invoke infamous Flaws for Commoners!
Peasant Hat - if titular hat is removed, crows will peck your exposed brain, and you will die
Pig Bound - if you get too far from your pig, it will turn into Orcus and skin you alive
Corpse - you are dead

Also, if Punchbag is, accidentally, Kobold, there is a feat from Ecology of Adventurers:
Elf - you spontaneously polymorphed into Elf, and was immediately killed by nearby kobolds
Punchbag does not have any Flaws.

Hmmm... In addition to having a big T swallow poor Punchbag's farm, would researching an epic spell that awakens his farm as a Genius Locorum (ELH) and have the farm-turned-genius-locorum Nailed to the Sky (Epic Spell) work? I mean, Punchbag is immune to transmutation, and the farm cannot become hostile, or be moved to a different plane. But in this case his farm is not necessarily hostile, nor is it on a different plane. Punchbag gets to farm from the orbit.

If that doesn't count as disabling him since he can still farm, have a defiler drain his farm completely. He would be trapped in the orbit, never able to abandon his now sterile land, and yet have absolutely nothing to do.
Punchbag continues farming in orbit. The defiler finds he is unable to drain Punchbag's farm, as Punchbag would find a lifeless patch of dirt a hostile place to live.

Yet another try: would releasing the Pandorym work?
I... don't know what effects Pandorym has, offhand, but that sounds like a Really Bad Idea,

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 06:09 AM

@Heliomance I'm quite sure the post you quoted explained exactly why your response doesn't apply to Amber Sarcophagus. Nonetheless, I realized an hour after posting that it won't work anyway due to one of the immunities, but can't remember at the moment which one.

Tedective

2015-11-27, 06:12 AM

If you can use a live spider as a material component, other non-dead creatures aren't automatically off-limits, if you can find a spell that will use one. I found a way to use Simulacrum in well under a standard action, so that should count as one of the deaths.

All casters now have Eschew Materials.
Because Punchbag is worth less than 1g.
Because nobody likes Punchbag.

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 06:14 AM

Pretty sure that's 57 deaths.
You can just write about him dying and he'll die after all.
56, I think. Edited that post to correct it.

If you can use a live spider as a material component, other non-dead creatures aren't automatically off-limits, if you can find a spell that will use one. I found a way to use Simulacrum in well under a standard action, so that should count as one of the deaths.

Thinking about it, I actually think the immunity to effects that simply erase him from existence applies to being used as a material component. But yes, I admit I forgot about your Simulacrum entry. That one doesn't work, though, because you said you were using a small effigy of snow, and the spell requires the part of the creature (in this case, the whole of Punchbag) to be placed inside the snow effigy.

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 06:15 AM

@Heliomance Did you miss this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20113685&postcount=112) post?

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 06:28 AM

Is he immune to the heat death of the universe?
The heat death of the universe has no rules governing it.

If you allow for third party Pathfinder material:

A tactician with Spirit of the Many (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/tactician/#TOC-Spirit-of-Many-Su-) uses Unwilling Participant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/unwilling-participant-psionic) to bring Punchbag into her collective (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/tactician/#TOC-Collective-Su-).

The text of Spirit of the Many states (emphasis mine): "Whenever a tactician manifests a power with the Network descriptor targeting only members of his collective, the power loses the mind-affecting descriptor (if it had it) and is treated as a supernatural ability (bypassing Power Resistance and becoming immune to dispel attempts), although it still provokes an attacks of opportunity to manifest as normal."

So, the tactician can use a power such as Deadly Fear (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/d/deadly-fear) in conjunction with Shared Power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/shared-power-metapsionic), which as stated above removes the mind-affecting descriptor.

As such, Punchbag dies if he fails both saves.
...why is becoming part of a Collective not mind-affecting?
Deaths: 57. Punchbag is now immune to Fear effects, even if they would normally bypass Fear immunity.

As Punchbag is immune to alignment-related stuff, here is the modified version of my methods pending ruling:

2. Use Sleight of Hand to reverse-steal the Death Rock into Punchbag's pocket. Having the ability to cast as Sorcerer, he is now considered an arcane spellcaster. Now convince him to read the Manual of Puissant Skill at Arms or bluff him into thinking it is his paycheck, or Ye Grande Olde Grimour of Happy Farming, or even just hold it before his eyes so he will read a word as a reflex. Upon reading at least one word he loses 2d6*1000 XP.

Item descriptions for reference (relevant parts bolded):

Death Rock: This object is said to be the heart of an evil demon lord or evil demigod, cut from his chest in a terrible battle with a woman invested with celestial powers who sought vengeance for the wrongs of the evil being and its cult. The Death Rock is a crude black stone the size of a fist that pulses like a beating heart.
Anyone possessing the Death Rock gains the spellcasting abilities of a sorcerer of a level equal to his own. The character knows only spells of the Necromancy school. If the character is already a sorcerer, the new spells known and extra spells per day are in addition to his own.
The Death Rock has a drawback. Once per week, the closest companion or dearest loved one of the Death Rock’s owner is automatically slain and turned into a zombie that serves the owner. The owner may forsake the Death Rock to
prevent this (or he might run out of companions or loved ones), but then the Death Rock immediately fades away.

Manual of Puissant Skill at Arms: This treatise contains expert advice and instruction in the arts of combat. Any barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, or ranger who spends one week studying the manual gains a +1 inherent bonus to Strength and experience points sufficient to place him halfway into the next level of experience. (If the reader has levels in more than one of the classes listed, he must choose one of the classes to be affected.)
A character without any levels in one of the classes listed gains no bonus from the work, but if an arcane spellcaster without levels in one of the classes listed scans even a single word she will lose 2d6×1,000 XP and must make a Will save (DC 20) or have 1 point of Intelligence permanently drained.
Except as indicated above, the writing in a manual of puissant skill at arms can’t be distinguished from any other book, libram, tome, or so on until perused. Once read, the book vanishes, never to be seen again, nor can the same character ever benefit from reading a similar tome a second time.
Caster Level: 19th; Weight: 3 lb.

1) ...that must be a Necromancy effect, surely.
2) Deaths: 58. Punchbag is now illiterate. Why aren't commoners illiterate by default? Why are commoners better educated than barbarians?

I don't get it - how is it a "missed opportunity"? :smallconfused:
Punchbag don't have immunity to disease, nor to Fort effects in general
Why is it "Missing"?
Just because it's rather obvious, but nobody actually mentioned it?
Because he's no longer reliant on biological processes to survive, which means it doesn't matter if disease wracks his body. Someone managed to find a poison that still works, though, and I think you've just found a disease. Congratulations.
Deaths: 59. Punchbag is now immune to disease.

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 06:29 AM

@Heliomance Did you miss this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20113685&postcount=112) post?
How does that bypass his poison immunity?

Atomburster

2015-11-27, 06:30 AM

Deaths: 51. Punchbag can now fly (perfect maneuverability, non-magical, not reliant on wings. Don't question it.)

Well, obviously so we don't place Protection from Winged Fliers around Punchbag and incapacitate him that way..

Okay, Affinity Field + Painless Death on ourselves. That should neatly bypass Punchbag's 'Never Willing' condition.

Rubik

2015-11-27, 06:35 AM

Well, obviously so we don't place Protection from Winged Fliers around Punchbag and incapacitate him that way..

Okay, Affinity Field + Painless Death on ourselves. That should neatly bypass Punchbag's 'Never Willing' condition.It's necromancy, so no. Otherwise, a spellblade would be doable earlier, though either one would have worked.

[edit] Go to the afterlife for one of the Evil iterations of Punchbag that has already died. Use his larval soul as a spell component, a la the BoVD.

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 06:39 AM

How does that bypass his poison immunity?Here's the text (emphasis mine):
Sertrous’s breath fills a 240-foot-radius spread around him. Any creature that breathes this foul air must succeed on a DC 33 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round.

This breath suppresses any immunity to poison a victim possesses for as long as it remains within the area plus an additional 2d6 rounds after it leaves the area.

GloatingSwine

2015-11-27, 07:21 AM

A black hole would essentially be a lot of physical damage, it is nothing magical. A sun similarly would just be fire and falling damage.

Both would trap him there, trigger his ability to return to his farm at will.

However, moving his farm into the sun or into a black hole should work, because the core of a sun or inside a black hole aren't hostile environments to punchbag because he's immune to their effects and has to biological requirements to sustain, he's trapped with the dissociated plasma/compressed singularity of his farm, at least until hawking radiation causes the black hole to evaporate.

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 07:26 AM

NichG

2015-11-27, 07:26 AM

No clue how many deaths between now and then, but the last death will be when the last server archive of GitP finally succumbs to bit-rot...

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 08:00 AM

Just leave the farmer be. Being stuck busy with eternally farming should count as incapacitation with respect to the rest of the multiverse. PB isn't prevented from interacting with the world, exactly. It's the choice not to bother with doing anything but farming that causes virtual incapacitation.

Punchbag's farm now expands at an ever-increasing rate so long as Punchbag farms it, absorbing all in its path. Eventually, it will consume the entire plane, leaving nothing but Punchbag and the farm, forever.

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 08:05 AM

Punchbag's farm now expands at an ever-increasing rate so long as Punchbag farms it, absorbing all in its path. Eventually, it will consume the entire plane, leaving nothing but Punchbag and the farm, forever.Food for an entire plane from a farm whose siza we can control by constantly consuming its produce?

Mission. *******. Accomplished.

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 08:10 AM

Food for an entire plane from a farm whose siza we can control by constantly consuming its produce?

Mission. *******. Accomplished.

But none left to eat it.

GloatingSwine

2015-11-27, 08:12 AM

Don't worry, they were all evacuated to other planes, whereas we hold a monopoly on the planar gates to the prime Punchbag plane, and so can sell the produce of it throughout the rest of the planes at whatever prices we see fit.

Rubik

2015-11-27, 08:12 AM

Punchbag's farm now expands at an ever-increasing rate so long as Punchbag farms it, absorbing all in its path. Eventually, it will consume the entire plane, leaving nothing but Punchbag and the farm, forever.Shapechange into a zodar and use your 1/year Wish to get yourself a repeating trap of Wish that converts particles of air, water, earth, and fire into CL 1,000 repeating traps of randomly Teleporting traps of Dispel Evil, followed by Dispel Chaos, Holy Word, and Dictum, which then cast Wish to duplicate themselves on other particles of earth, water, fire, and air that are nearby. That will kill everything on the Material Plane which isn't both Good and Lawful. Once enough non-LG creatures are destroyed, the Material Plane and everything on it will shift into the Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia.* Since Punchbag's farm is immune to shifting planes, it (and thus, he) will be all that's left in the entire dimension, leaving him there alone, forever.

If I can't entrap him in another dimension, I'll move everything ELSE, and leave him entrapped in THIS dimension, instead.

*Note that according to the Manual of the Planes, this kind of thing has happened numerous times on the outer and inner planes, and it's what numerous outsiders want to accomplish on the Material Plane, so it's at least theoretically possible.

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 08:16 AM

But none left to eat it.
Huh, why? As long as the farm isn't as indestructable as Punchbag, it can and will be controlled. Resetting traps, disintegrate, etc. One could even terraform within the farm, establising cities/countries with growth-control near borders. Even a resetting Prestidigitation means fresh-food paradise for plenty of folks.

EDIT: And thus the thread turns into a whole new direction! Food paradise!

Rubik

2015-11-27, 08:24 AM

For additional irony, my last post was committing innumerable counts of mass genocide in the name of Lawful Goodness.

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 08:29 AM

For additional irony, my last post was committing innumerable counts of mass genocide in the name of Lawful Good.Maybe even better if this turns out to be a poultry farm, omelette metaphor and all.

Heliomance

2015-11-27, 08:43 AM

Shapechange into a zodar and use your 1/year Wish to get yourself a repeating trap of Wish that converts particles of air, water, earth, and fire into CL 1,000 repeating traps of randomly Teleporting traps of Dispel Evil, followed by Dispel Chaos, Holy Word, and Dictum, which then cast Wish to duplicate themselves on other particles of earth, water, fire, and air that are nearby. That will kill everything on the Material Plane which isn't both Good and Lawful. Once enough non-LG creatures are destroyed, the Material Plane and everything on it will shift into the Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia.* Since Punchbag's farm is immune to shifting planes, it (and thus, he) will be all that's left in the entire dimension, leaving him there alone, forever.

If I can't entrap him in another dimension, I'll move everything ELSE, and leave him entrapped in THIS dimension, instead.

*Note that according to the Manual of the Planes, this kind of thing has happened numerous times on the outer and inner planes, and it's what numerous outsiders want to accomplish on the Material Plane, so it's at least theoretically possible.
...this thread has gone in a very strange direction. I try to provide a reason why you should care about killing Punchbag (though, given that you've killed him over 50 times so far without a reason, maybe you're all just evil monsters) and it suddenly turns into genociding an entire plane deliberately to provide food to the rest of the multiverse. The hell, guys?

Rubik

2015-11-27, 08:48 AM

khadgar567

2015-11-27, 09:44 AM

some spells that can maybe kill him from relics and rituals soul strike (aka ghosts rip him to shreds) sor/wiz 7

Khatoblepas

2015-11-27, 10:13 AM

...this thread has gone in a very strange direction. I try to provide a reason why you should care about killing Punchbag (though, given that you've killed him over 50 times so far without a reason, maybe you're all just evil monsters) and it suddenly turns into genociding an entire plane deliberately to provide food to the rest of the multiverse. The hell, guys?

Well, that's the flip side of "if it has stats, we can kill it". If it could possibly have an in-world effect, we can use it to solve an in-world problem.

On a more metaphysical level, does Punchbag have free will? Does he have a personality and agency outside of "works a farm" and "is not willing"? If not, Adaptive Evolution has incapacitated him by preventing him from taking any meaningful actions except creating an ever expanding farm, which a regular Human Commoner 1 can choose not to do. Adaptive Evolution has no stated duration, we can assume it's permanent. You may think that it's not incapacitation if he's able to move around and farm, but it's no different from being permanently mind controlled into doing one action. Both take away Punchbag's agency. He is trapped into farming for the rest of eternity until the planes collapse.

Punchbag is permanently incapacitated by Adaptive Evolution.

For that matter, Punchbag's family aren't stated to have the same abilities as him. When they die, will Punchbag grieve? Can endlessly farming take away the pain of watching all of your loved ones, and everyone you know and care about wither away and die before you, while you are helpless to look on, being a mere commoner? Seeing their souls pass onto other planes while you, Punchbag, are trapped in your mortal body for the rest of eternity?

Can we get an "existential crisis" here?

ben-zayb

2015-11-27, 10:23 AM

At this point, though, there is no incentive to kill PB, but a lot to keep it alive. It does eternal labor, for us to exploit, and it won't (or can't) even bother stop us. Just sit back after setting up farm-growth controllers, and profit!

Another lazy alternative
Simply point out OOC that PB's Immunity also applies to him, and so he can't take actions via either controlling his actions or willingly acting. Ergo, he can't act at all.

Lazy PC: 2
Hardworking Farmer: 0

edit: ninjad, dagnabit!:smalltongue:

Jack_Simth

2015-11-27, 12:09 PM

He does indeed still sleep.Then while sleeping, he's Helpless.
Then I've got another death for you: A Profession(Executioner) check as per Book of Vile Darkness, page 39. No tags on the form of death.

Jurai

2015-11-27, 12:19 PM

Well, we find Punchbag, and we make friends with him. The hard way, mind you, not a skill check or a Charm or Dominate spell, we actually work on building a healthy relationship. Find out what he loves most in the world, wife, kids, pets, hobbies, foods, dreams. Then we remove them, heartlessly, in front of him. Make him want to end his own tortured existence. Torture them, beat them, make them listen to muzak for a few months, feed him the food he hates most, basically ruin his life and take away everything that he's ever considered awesome. Make it so you are the only thing left he has to care for. Then tell him that we never liked him, that he's worthless, and will die alone and miserable.

In this way, we have taken the impetus for Punchbag's removal and put it on Punchbag himself. Now I pop the popcorn and and share with all of you as we watch from our Astral stronghold through a Crystal Ball with True Seeing and picture-in-picture functionality.

Strigon

2015-11-27, 12:39 PM

khadgar567

2015-11-27, 12:48 PM

Quick question; is there anything particularly wrong with the whole world being a farm?
Farms are pretty nice places, and they tend to be free of any dangers, save for a few entirely contained area. Seems to me like a pretty good deal; we have an immortal caretaker keeping the whole plane safe and hospitable.

how about constant attacks forget drow of the upperdark because Houston we gotta skaven problem when everywhere is farm there is realy high chance that some one intruduce optimazed rats to get rid of the farm for cityspace

MilleniaAntares

2015-11-27, 02:37 PM

...why is becoming part of a Collective not mind-affecting?
So the collective could be used on mindless beings, like the astral constructs that psions can create, and also on psicrystals.

Dgrin

2015-11-27, 03:00 PM

Oh, another artifact which can work - Atarasi's Armor!

... Any time the character could engage in combat without dishonoring himself or his family, he must make a Will save at DC 20 to keep from charging into the fray, screaming the names of his ancestors. Once engaged, the samurai will not break from combat (automatically makes all morale checks, and immune to fear) until his enemies are defeated.
So we get him to put on this armor (shouldn't be too difficult with his Str score of 10). Then send in a creature with DR, for example, Adamantine golem. Fighting the golem would not make him to dishonor himself or his family, so he gets to fight. Once engaged, he will fight forever. Both him and golem do not need to sleep, eat or breathe. Both cannot harm each other. As he cannot do anything other than fight uselessly, I guess it should count as permanently incapacitating him.

Jack_Simth

2015-11-27, 03:05 PM

Oh, another artifact which can work - Atarasi's Armor!

So we get him to put on this armor (shouldn't be too difficult with his Str score of 10). Then send in a creature with DR, for example, Adamantine golem. Fighting the golem would not make him to dishonor himself or his family, so he gets to fight. Once engaged, he will fight forever. Both him and golem do not need to sleep, eat or breathe. Both cannot harm each other. As he cannot do anything other than fight uselessly, I guess it should count as permanently incapacitating him.

He can't be grappled, so you'll need to use diplomancy or something to get him to try it on.

Dgrin

2015-11-27, 03:16 PM

He can't be grappled, so you'll need to use diplomancy or something to get him to try it on.

He still sleeps every day, so I guess that creative use of illusions while he's dressing in the morning could help

Platymus Pus

2015-11-27, 03:17 PM

Pretty sure it's at the point you just go outside the rules.
Go back in time to when punch bag was a baby. Kick the baby. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itOrmFU8CO8)

atemu1234

2015-11-27, 03:53 PM

Pretty sure it's at the point you just go outside the rules.
Go back in time to when punch bag was a baby. Kick the baby. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itOrmFU8CO8)

Shake him until he is dead. He is now immune to SBS.

daremetoidareyo

2015-11-27, 07:12 PM

If a spellcaster sneaks into punchbag's house at night. He uses the mosquito bite skill trick to attach all four of his tentacles from illithid grapple. He can then use illithid extraction (COMPPSI) feat to remove his brain without him noticing. You can then use that brain as a spell component (BOVD p. 46) to double the range of a spell.

The problem is getting the tentacles attached.

It is my hope that mosquito bite can outpace the ability to the freedom of movement's effect from occuring.

Let me try again:

You befriend punchbag. Help him out on the farm. Become best flipping buds. Behind his back, hire a band of weak commoners to attack you both. Defeat them handily. Then begin training with punchbag and convince him that a special battle maneuver is awesome. Give it a silly name. That battle maneuver you train with is called "martial throw" in the miniatures handbook. This move is awesome because punchbag is immune to damage. How cool would it be to train to use him as ammunition! So the idea is to train to use all four of your illithid tentacles to switch spots with him over and over.

In this maneuver, you can do the following:

"You can use this feat on allies as well as enemies. If the other character is willing, your attack roll and grapple check are automatically successful, and you deal unarmed strike damage to your ally normally. (This move is a hard, violent throw, and you can't pull it off without actually striking the subject of the throw.) This feat can be used only once per round."

With illithid grapple and martial throw, your tentacle automatically attaches, when you successfully hit with a tentacle and grapple check. If you use all four tentacles as martial throws back and forth (once a round), you wind up with all four tentacles attached. You have to practive this trick many times so that punchbag is very comfortable with practicing this neat little trick. Anyway, on the big day where you beat him, you can, then on the fifth round, use illithid extraction to rip his brains out and use it as a spell component via BOVD, using a quickened or free action spell is best. Use it as a component for featherfall, who cares what the spell is.

No brain = no living anymore. Humans need brains...unless punchbag doesn't.

Also

Has anyone mentioned assplomancy? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?238255-New-amp-Improved-Assplomancer)

Helluin

2015-11-27, 07:31 PM

I... don't know what effects Pandorym has, offhand, but that sounds like a Really Bad Idea,

Upon the release of Pandorym, it would seek to unite its disembodied psyche with its body, destroying everything and anything on its way. Upon the reunion of mind and body, Pandorym would proceed to attempt to return to its home, a dimension independent of the multiverse. If Pandorym cannot find a way to return, it would simply unmake the multiverse (or at the very least, the Prime Material Plane) in its frustration.

Yes, many (in fact, all) would perish, but the Prime would be saved from the fate of becoming an infinitely expansive farm, at the cost of its existence

Sgt. Cookie

2015-11-27, 07:42 PM

squiggit

2015-11-27, 07:49 PM

Upon the release of Pandorym, it would seek to unite its disembodied psyche with its body, destroying everything and anything on its way. Upon the reunion of mind and body, Pandorym would proceed to attempt to return to its home, a dimension independent of the multiverse. If Pandorym cannot find a way to return, it would simply unmake the multiverse (or at the very least, the Prime Material Plane) in its frustration.

Yes, many (in fact, all) would perish, but the Prime would be saved from the fate of becoming an infinitely expansive farm, at the cost of its existence

It would also fulfill its original contract and kill all the gods.

Rubik

2015-11-27, 08:23 PM

It would also fulfill its original contract and kill all the gods.A worthy goal, if you ask me.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Kratos_God_of_War_III.png

TinyMushroom

2015-11-27, 09:08 PM

Reverse psychology: tell him to whatever he does, he shouldn't float away into space and stay there forever as his wife and children would miss him very much. Punchbag, ever unwilling, will do this anyway. I really just want "reverse psychology" on the immunities list. Sue me.

Rubik

2015-11-27, 09:13 PM

Helluin

2015-11-27, 09:51 PM

It would also fulfill its original contract and kill all the gods.

Ummm... Right, right... I totally remember that

Oooooh what if we diplomance a Least Deity into granting Punchbag one DvR and then release the Pandorym? That way even if Pandorym somehow found a way back home (although it really shouldn't be able to) before it could destroy the entirety of reality, it would still seek out Punchbag. What's even better is that Punchbag gets to be destroyed by Pandorym once, and gets to be trapped in a void of nonentity the second time as everything but Punchbag, who is immune to Pandorym, gets wiped out

Spider_Jerusalem

2015-11-27, 11:59 PM

Execute him (by the BoVD rules). Freedom of Movement might be a problem, though. Is Punchbag immune to sleep yet? I guess one could just wait for him to sleep and get on with it before he wakes up...

Sorry if this has been adressed before. I read up to page 4 before remembering that execution uses only a skill check, no damage involved.

Misery Esquire

2015-11-28, 12:58 AM

Another plan ;

Remove everyone else from a ~26 hour radius around Punchbag, and prevent them from entering the area, somehow. Post signs, build a fence, whatever. Be a Thrallherd. Wait 25 hours next to him ; Punchbag is now your thrall, as he will be the only available replacement. He is now your ally, and will follow any command you give him ; excepting being a willing target for things as he is never a willing target.

You can now, however, use Punchbag as Full Cover against the gods, and all of their SDAs. So, bonus?

NichG

2015-11-28, 01:41 AM

Rubik

2015-11-28, 01:50 AM

Has anyone done constant forced-dream resets to before Punchbag was born yet? Not editing him out of the timeline, but rather not allowing the timeline to ever progress to the point at which he exists.All the changes are retroactive. Time travel only works (I think) if you find the soul of one who died before he got an immunity.

NichG

2015-11-28, 02:04 AM

All the changes are retroactive. Time travel only works (I think) if you find the soul of one who died before he got an immunity.

I think its a qualitatively different kind of 'death'. The previous one was something like 'go back and time and kill him, so that he never exists' which I think led to retroactive, and then acausal. This one is more like 'do not allow time to advance to the point at which he first exists' - so its more like stranding him in a universe without any people. Since the immunity he gained from the other form of that was that his farm constantly expands to encompass the entire plane, that immunity still has the concept of a 'starting point' at which the expansion begins. So if you basically just keep doing Groundhog Day shenanigans for the day before he comes into existence using Psicrystal/Mass Timehop/Forced Dream, the timeline never advances to that point.

Not sure if that would count as separate.

Novawurmson

2015-11-28, 04:00 AM

Combined with any of the grappling-focused concepts: The PF teori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori) monk.

At 9th level, a tetori can spend 1 point from his ki pool to suppress his opponents’ freedom of movement and magical bonuses to Escape Artist or on checks to escape a grapple.