What do you think of this Monk, Tome homebrew?

[SangoProduction]

http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Monk,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)

It seems to address every issue I've seen thrown at the Monk (rightfully so), and just seems kinda cool. Kinda sucks that the damage of the slam doesn't scale, but at least it's immediately useful. And I guess getting a scaling natural attack that could be added on top of a weapon attack (both of which could be enchanted) could be kinda silly.

Then again, I tend to think that most of the Tome classes are kinda cool and add just enough power for me to consider using them...if only I could find a DM that used homebrew...and then didn't scream bloody murder at something being an upgraded version of a weak class.

[Pluto!]

It's very strong. That's what the designers were going for, but I think powering up classes' baselines only encourages the characterbuilding arms race to get out of hand faster. (As optimization increases on one side of the DM screen, it has to incrase on the other until every combattound is a rocket-propelled cup-check for one immunity or another.)

[SangoProduction]

It's very strong. That's what the designers were going for, but I think powering up classes' baselines only encourages the character building arms race to get out of hand faster. (As optimization increases on one side of the DM screen, it has to increase on the other until every combat round is a rocket-propelled cup-check for one immunity or another.)

I'm of the opposite opinion. When the base line is raised, people don't *need* to optimize to be useful/cool. A barbarian has to very extremely optimize to rise 1 tier (talking about the uber-chargers). Where as wizards can choose to simply not be optimized, and play at the same rank as this uber optimized barbarian (actually, likely at least 1 tier higher, because they always have the choice, but not the point).

[Beheld]

Tome Monk is great. 1) It actually has level appropriate things to do against enemies of it's CR, so it can meaningfully contribute to the game. 2) Unlike every martial class ever published by WotC it can actually choose to do a bunch of different cool things on every round of combat. WotC hates when people make choices between different cool things unless they are Wizards, so this is a drastic improvement.

[SangoProduction]

Tome Monk is great. 1) It actually has level appropriate things to do against enemies of it's CR, so it can meaningfully contribute to the game. 2) Unlike every martial class ever published by WotC it can actually choose to do a bunch of different cool things on every round of combat. WotC hates when people make choices between different cool things unless they are Wizards, so this is a drastic improvement.

awesome. Good to see some more feedback.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The slam attack is marked as (Su), which is silly. All the other abilities are (Su), too, for no good reason. This monk is essentially useless inside an antimagic field.

I would suggest changing every ability to (Ex), except: Diamond Soul, Master of the Four Winds, and certain fighting styles (e.g. the teleporting one).

[SangoProduction]

The slam attack is marked as (Su), which is silly. All the other abilities are (Su), too, for no good reason. This monk is essentially useless inside an antimagic field.

I would suggest changing every ability to (Ex), except: Diamond Soul, Master of the Four Winds, and certain fighting styles (e.g. the teleporting one).

Su? Hmm, didn't notice that. Some of his abilities perhaps fit the part, but...I'll have to look more closely, thanks.

[Genth]

I like - really like - the "Fighting Style" mechanic - as said before, it gives a whole bunch of options that do not feel like 'spells light'. I think they may be a *little* too powerful, (eg the "teleport at will as a free action") and stacking them could break the action economy - personally I would put a rounds per day limit on it, probably at a Barbarian Rage or Bardic Performance progression of rounds. Also some of them need to be nerfed or given a per day limit. Panicking 10ft radius of people every round, for ever, is a bit much.

I think the slam attack bit is... problematic, because it explicitly contravenes the rules, meaning you can get this slam attack even if both your hands are full. I prefer Pathfinder's Unchained Flurry mechanic - you just get an extra attack with UAS or a monk weapon at your highest BAB at level 1, and another at level 11.

((Also I know I'm in the minority on this, but I like alignment restrictions in the rules as nudges towards the kind of characters these are. Monks require discipline and training in excess, which I see as lawful traits. If you disagree or have a different idea in mind, y'should feel free to ignore the restrictions, but I see it as similar to the 'description' of feats which may or may not end up the same as how the feat plays out))

[Beheld]

I like - really like - the "Fighting Style" mechanic - as said before, it gives a whole bunch of options that do not feel like 'spells light'. I think they may be a *little* too powerful, (eg the "teleport at will as a free action") and stacking them could break the action economy - personally I would put a rounds per day limit on it, probably at a Barbarian Rage or Bardic Performance progression of rounds. Also some of them need to be nerfed or given a per day limit. Panicking 10ft radius of people every round, for ever, is a bit much.

1) If you are going to give them a per day limit on the amount of times they can not be a commoner, you might as well just print out the class on a piece of paper and burn it. That would be less destructive. There is no possible reason to give a rounds per day limit to the class.

2) And no, basically none of the abilities need to nerfed or given a per day limit. Panicking people within 10ft of you at level 9 is not the end of the world, or even the best fighting style of that level. It is 10ft, and it a will save, and it's a mind affecting fear effect. Half the monster manual is just immune to it, if not more, it is very short range, and they have to fail a save. It is just a frightful presence with a shorter range that you spend your level appropriate character points for.


I think the slam attack bit is... problematic, because it explicitly contravenes the rules, meaning you can get this slam attack even if both your hands are full. I prefer Pathfinder's Unchained Flurry mechanic - you just get an extra attack with UAS or a monk weapon at your highest BAB at level 1, and another at level 11.

:( You are literally complaining about a class feature that the PHB Monk also gets. If you are upset that a monk is kicking or elbowing people . . . I don't even know.