Returning to size in an enclosed space.

[Erubus]

Lets say a character was polymorphed in to something small, say a frog for example.

Now lets say the frog is put into a jar and buried.

When the character returns to normal size, what happens.

[Blacky the Blackball]

That situation has cropped up in my campaign. In our case it was a druid who had turned into a fly but had been captured and put in a jar while in that form and then the duration of the wild shape ran out.

There's no rule for it in the book, so it ends up as another case where DM ruling is required.

After discussing it with my players, we decided that the druid would stay in fly shape until there was room for him to return to normal. We also extended that to a general principle - you can't change shape into something if there isn't room for it, and this includes changing back into your "normal" form at the end of a duration if there isn't room for you.

[Daishain]

then we just have an instadeath scenario turn into permanent imprisonment. Not much better. For the sake of avoiding easy player abuse, i'd be inclined to rule thusly:
-spell/ability fails on casting if insufficient space exists for new form
-upon spell/ability ending, if insufficient space exists, subject 'pops' to the nearest open area of sufficient size, taking 1d6 bludgeoning damage for each 10 feet traveled this way

[Capac Amaru]

The books usually treat such things as force damage. If you reappear from spells that allow you to pass through solid matter you take force damage.

Etherealness: "If you occupy the same space as a solid object or creature when this happens, you are immediately shunted to the nearest unoccupied space that you can occupy and take force damage equal to twice the number of feet you are moved."

I'd rule that the minimum damage would be 1, and that if the same amount of force is exerted on the object, so:

Druid transforms back to a human from a fly inside a jar: druid takes 1 force damage, and so does the jar, breaking it.

Wizard's ethereal spell ends while he is inside a mountain, the closest open space is a cave 15 feet away. He takes 30 force damage, and so does the rock. 30 force damage is not much for a mountain, so no noticeable effect.

[Erubus]

Thanks for the quick feedback.

I'm thinking I'm going to rule it as such:

When a size altering effect ends, if there is insufficient space for the new form, they are shunted to the nearest available space and take 1d8 damage for every increment of 10 feet moved, to a maximum of 20d8, with the material taking just as much damage.

Example:
A druid that has wild shaped into a mole has dug 22 feet underground. Wild shape ends and the druid is shunted straight back up 22 feet and takes 3d8 damage for being in his third increment of 10.

How does this sound as a rule? Should the damage die increase at all?

[Malifice]

For balance reaons the critter gets magicked back safe and sound in the nearest safe place.

For hilarity he doesn't.

[Greased Up Fox]

I would think you could have even more fun if you based the damage off of the type of container. A glass jar compared to an iron cage may cause different issues.

[Vogonjeltz]

Lets say a character was polymorphed in to something small, say a frog for example.

Now lets say the frog is put into a jar and buried.

When the character returns to normal size, what happens.

The Polymorph spell itself is silent on this issue, so it's a DM ruling.

For guidance, let's take a look at other spells where size/shape change is an issue, or where two objects occupying the same space come into play:

Banishment - Nearest unoccupied space (no ill effects)
Blink - Nearest unoccupied space of choice within 10 feet, or if none available the nearest unoccupied space (no ill effects)
Dimension Door - Fails to teleport, take damage
Enlarge/Reduce - Silent on reduced creatures returning to size, enlarge stops at max possible space.
Etherealness - Shunted to nearest spot if original spot is now filled, take force damage equal to twice the number of feet moved.
Forcecage - Partially trapped creatures are shunted outside the cage. (no ill effects)
Gaseous Form - silent
Maze - Nearest unoccupied space (no ill effects)
Meld Into Stone - unoccupied space closest to point of entry (no ill effects)
Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion - Open spaces nearest the entrance (no ill effects)
Rope Trick - drops out (potential falling damage)
Teleport - Doesn't allow for same exact locations.
Teleportation Circle - Nearest unoccupied space (no ill effects).
Wall spells - Shunts anyone who occupies the same space, they suffer no ill effects

Shapechange, Animal Shapes, True Polymorph, etc...say nothing about it being possible to constrain the change, or suffering ill effects if it is.

So, based on all that, I'm inclined to say the character returns to their normal shape, if they couldn't fit in the current space, they return to the nearest unocccupied space suffering no ill effects.

[krugaan]

Druid turns into a giant frog.

Druid grapples a mook, and then swallows it.

Druid get knocked out of frog form before mook is dead, reverting to druid form ... what happens to druid?

This actually happened in our playgroup, lol.

[rollingForInit]

I'd deal damage depending on whether the surrounding object can break or not. If can't break (you've managed to enclose it inside a mountain), the person returning dies. Simple as that, although getting someone to such a place wouldn't exactly be simple.

If a druid shapechanges into a fly and is trapped in a jar, I'd say the jar breaks, and the druid might take minor flashing damage (1d4) from the glass. If the person is trapped inside a wooden box, I'd say maybe 1d6 bludgeoning damage. 2d6 if the wood is particularly massive. Maybe 3d6 if it's a metal box, less if the box is very fragile.

I don't see it as overpowered in anyway. Actually sealing someone in something that cannot really break isn't exactly easy.

[Daishain]

minor flashing damage (1d4)So, what would constitute major flashing damage? A troll in nothing but a trenchcoat? :smallbiggrin:


I don't see it as overpowered in anyway. Actually sealing someone in something that cannot really break isn't exactly easy.I wish to remind you that passwall and stone shape are low level spells

[PoeticDwarf]

I'd say with the jar that the one who is polymorphed takes damage, but if the one who is polymorphed is in a cave I'd say it takes damage and still doesn't turn back.

[Spojaz]

In one campaign, our DM foolishly sold us an unbreakable jar. It was just a minor magic item, way overpriced. I bought it immediately.
Our Witch could turn things into frogs.

Giant to frog, frog in jar, spell expires.

For the sake of rewarding lateral thinking and hilarity, it was ruled ruled that it was like one of those "snakes in a can of nuts" gags, but with gore instead of springs and fabric. Very nearly killed the character that unscrewed the lid. DM took the jar away soon afterward.

[smcmike]

I don't like treating this like an equivalent teleport spell, because this is not a teleport spell, and so they are not equivalent. I prefer that the DM figure it out on a case by case basis. DM abuse is prevented by good DMing.

That said, the cases are not all easy.

For giant frog that swallowed an enemy, I would say part of the transformation process is coughing the enemy back up.

More concerning would be the Druid that turned into a fly and got the enemy to swallow her. Maybe it would be best just to avoid this one.

A character caught in an unbreakable box that's much too small for him would die. Of course, a character caught in an unbreakable box that's about the right size for him is in a pretty bad predicament too.

A character that is buried alive is buried alive. That sucks for her, but don't blame the polymorph.

[Vogonjeltz]

Druid turns into a giant frog.

Druid grapples a mook, and then swallows it.

Druid get knocked out of frog form before mook is dead, reverting to druid form ... what happens to druid?

This actually happened in our playgroup, lol.

Druid vomits up the mook as they transform back into their regular shape.

[Sindeloke]

So, based on all that, I'm inclined to say the character returns to their normal shape, if they couldn't fit in the current space, they return to the nearest unocccupied space suffering no ill effects.

I'd go with this, because it leads to the fewest shenanigans. Otherwise you just have to forge a gentleman's agreement with your players that they get to murder a couple bad guys gruesomely with this a couple times while it's still funny, and then they stop doing it and get on with things and you also never turn around and do it to them. If you make a consistent damage rule, polymorph spells basically become save-or-dies, because there are a million ways for a creative player to get a tiny creature into a space it can't safely get out of (or, conversely, make an enemy into a space that can't survive being gotten out of). And save-or-dies just aren't fun for anyone.

[rollingForInit]

So, what would constitute major flashing damage? A troll in nothing but a trenchcoat? :smallbiggrin:

I wish to remind you that passwall and stone shape are low level spells

:P

That's true. Still ... I'm not sure I like the idea of giving Wild Shape and Polymorph teleportation components. That feels way more open to abusive ...