New DM Asking For Help W/Building Appropriate Villains

[raichen817]

Hi guys,

New to to the forum and DMing so I apologize if I make any amateur mistakes. I am starting a campaign as my first time DMing and I have an idea that I want to run the campaign with. It involves going through 3 formidable enemies before being able to fight a main enemy. The setting is mostly based on toppling an empires hierarchy so all of the enemies are humans/humanoid races.

My issue is that I'm not sure if I should try and build the villains as if they were a PC and just use a character sheet for them or if I should try and use an NPC generator and make them with that. Another worry is how to make it balanced to that my group doesn't get destroyed but still feels the pressure of the villain's power. Any advice anyone could offer would be very appreciated!

Game info:
-5 players, all starting lvl. 5
- wanted the villains to be a rogue type, sword and shield type, and a magic user (wizard or sorcerer)
-Only using PHB1 and PHB2 (makes it easier for me as I mentioned this is my first time DMing)

[Geddy2112]

A few tips
-Prebuilt NPC templates are usually not optimized, but they save a ton of time. These are particularly important for full casting classes so you don't have to pick spells. For a joe blow fighter, rogue, barbarian or other martial its a little easier to build your own. Not saying you can't use prebuilt martials or cook up your own casters, just keep in mind the time factor.

-A major important thing is to realize that CR is garbage. this awesome guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nx-o8VAjhUwh3nnfzDQT-JA5eFLnN_BZJiBitGjBMDg/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1) covers how to build encounters to be challenging and difficult. The takeaways are 1. No solo god bosses 2. CR assumes a party of 4, CR=level means the party needs 1/4th of their daily resources to beat it. 3. Action economy is more important than power- you are better off with a CR 4 wizard and a bunch of derps that add up to CR 2 than a CR6 wizard.

So, with that in mind:
A rogue type could be the boss of a gang, and have lots of underlings/trained animals. If you want solo, use a master assassin that won't engage the party headon and will use terrain/try to sneak up on them in their sleep etc.
A sword and shield knight could be an officer, guard captain, etc. Lots of martial guards, and likely use team tactics/formations/ numbers to fight.
A caster will prepare magical defenses and use magic to gain an edge. Flight, invisibility, summons, barriers. Also might have skeletons/animals/cultists/brainwashed friends/mercs.

[raichen817]

A few tips
-Prebuilt NPC templates are usually not optimized, but they save a ton of time. These are particularly important for full casting classes so you don't have to pick spells. For a joe blow fighter, rogue, barbarian or other martial its a little easier to build your own. Not saying you can't use prebuilt martials or cook up your own casters, just keep in mind the time factor.

-A major important thing is to realize that CR is garbage. this awesome guide[/URL] covers how to build encounters to be challenging and difficult. The takeaways are 1. No solo god bosses 2. CR assumes a party of 4, CR=level means the party needs 1/4th of their daily resources to beat it. 3. Action economy is more important than power- you are better off with a CR 4 wizard and a bunch of derps that add up to CR 2 than a CR6 wizard.

So, with that in mind:
A rogue type could be the boss of a gang, and have lots of underlings/trained animals. If you want solo, use a master assassin that won't engage the party headon and will use terrain/try to sneak up on them in their sleep etc.
A sword and shield knight could be an officer, guard captain, etc. Lots of martial guards, and likely use team tactics/formations/ numbers to fight.
A caster will prepare magical defenses and use magic to gain an edge. Flight, invisibility, summons, barriers. Also might have skeletons/animals/cultists/brainwashed friends/mercs.

Thank you for the help Geddy! so basically what is most important is that I build a situation around the villain that makes sense as opposed to creating a "god character" who they face off against. As far as making the villain an appropriate level for this do you have any suggestions? like I mentioned in my original post the group is 5 lvl5 characters

[Flickerdart]

Here are a couple of pointers for building good villain encounters:

Action economy
When five characters go up against one character, the five characters have a powerful advantage - they can attack five times a round! It seems intuitive that you should simply make the villain five times stronger, but D&D 3.5 doesn't work that way. A high-level character becomes all but immune to the efforts of low-level characters due to AC, saves, etc vastly exceeding the PCs' attack rolls and spell DCs. What you should do is provide each villain with expendable minions that serve to swing the action economy back towards the villain. This need not increase the CR, in the case of paladins, druids, necromancers, and similar characters that get minions as class features. In total, aim the encounter for EL 9 (four CR5 creatures, one CR 7 creature and two CR 5 creatures, etc) or EL 10 (four CR 6es, one CR 8 and two CR 6es, etc). Remember: a doubling of creatures is +2 to CR.

Rocket tag
Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many people get a turn, as long as the right person goes first. In my experience, PCs tend to build for damage rather than defenses, meaning that they either win initiative and trounce the enemy or fall like wheat to a scythe. An opponent with high HP/AC but middling offensive power will serve you better by extending the fight beyond the first round. Beware - if the villain's defenses are too high, the PCs might get frustrated that they are not making progress. This is where those weaker, easier to kill minions come in handy - "we killed 3 of the 4 goblins" feels a lot more like progress than "we dealt 100 damage, why won't this guy die?"

Building an NPC
Building an NPC is very similar to building a character, but with one important difference - you no longer care about level adjustment. This lets you break out things like the Half-Fiend template to empower your non-casters with flight and dark magical abilities. You can also provide them with minions to cover their weaknesses. For example, maybe the warrior is riding a dragon. Where did he get the dragon? Not your problem, just add some CR to the encounters and move on. I would recommend using the Elite Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) just so lucky stat rolls don't overpower your PCs.

He who fights and runs away
Fighting to the death is pretty stupid. After all, you might die! If a villain sees that he is being outmatched, how he deals with that can characterize the encounter more than any slugfest can. A roguish type might attempt to get away by using his speed and acrobatics, scampering up ledges and leaping over pits while throwing smoke bombs and toppling fruit carts to distract the PCs. A spellcaster might summon up minions or battlefield control spells to cover his retreat. A heavily armoured warrior may very well fight to the death, partly because of martial pride and partly because he's wearing too much steel to run fast, but he might actually try and surrender. Of course, a lich or vampire NPC can fight to the "death" with impunity.
On the flip side, your PCs might be the ones who are being beaten. Encourage them to have an extraction plan, and depending on the villain's disposition, allow them to escape or offer them the option of surrender. It's also classic for villains who have the upper hand to let their hubris get the best of them and sacrifice their advantage (dismissing their minion and entering melee, or standing around to gloat, or having a shiny floating weak spot for massive damage).

The shinies
Barring some unexpected unlucky rolls, your PCs will defeat the villains and hopefully loot their corpses. A boss should back some considerably sweet gear! Unless you want your PCs to be covered in artifacts from head to toe, it's okay to make some of the effects available to the boss unavailable to be looted. Obviously when the villain successfully escapes, the PCs get none of his things. If they do get to loot, having some effects as potions or scrolls rather than continuous use items lets you get away with shinier effects. Some items could be Evil (and bestow a negative level on Good and Neutral users). Others might only be usable by a character of the right faith, or require some sort of sacrifice to unlock their power. Intelligent items that can try and corrupt the user are fun to toss around.

I have a write-up for a series of encounters themed around an assassin hired to take the party in alive. Check it out! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19068789&postcount=6)

[raichen817]

Here are a couple of pointers for building good villain encounters:

Action economy
When five characters go up against one character, the five characters have a powerful advantage - they can attack five times a round! It seems intuitive that you should simply make the villain five times stronger, but D&D 3.5 doesn't work that way. A high-level character becomes all but immune to the efforts of low-level characters due to AC, saves, etc vastly exceeding the PCs' attack rolls and spell DCs. What you should do is provide each villain with expendable minions that serve to swing the action economy back towards the villain. This need not increase the CR, in the case of paladins, druids, necromancers, and similar characters that get minions as class features. In total, aim the encounter for EL 9 (four CR5 creatures, one CR 7 creature and two CR 5 creatures, etc) or EL 10 (four CR 6es, one CR 8 and two CR 6es, etc). Remember: a doubling of creatures is +2 to CR.

Rocket tag
Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many people get a turn, as long as the right person goes first. In my experience, PCs tend to build for damage rather than defenses, meaning that they either win initiative and trounce the enemy or fall like wheat to a scythe. An opponent with high HP/AC but middling offensive power will serve you better by extending the fight beyond the first round. Beware - if the villain's defenses are too high, the PCs might get frustrated that they are not making progress. This is where those weaker, easier to kill minions come in handy - "we killed 3 of the 4 goblins" feels a lot more like progress than "we dealt 100 damage, why won't this guy die?"

Building an NPC
Building an NPC is very similar to building a character, but with one important difference - you no longer care about level adjustment. This lets you break out things like the Half-Fiend template to empower your non-casters with flight and dark magical abilities. You can also provide them with minions to cover their weaknesses. For example, maybe the warrior is riding a dragon. Where did he get the dragon? Not your problem, just add some CR to the encounters and move on. I would recommend using the Elite Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) just so lucky stat rolls don't overpower your PCs.

He who fights and runs away
Fighting to the death is pretty stupid. After all, you might die! If a villain sees that he is being outmatched, how he deals with that can characterize the encounter more than any slugfest can. A roguish type might attempt to get away by using his speed and acrobatics, scampering up ledges and leaping over pits while throwing smoke bombs and toppling fruit carts to distract the PCs. A spellcaster might summon up minions or battlefield control spells to cover his retreat. A heavily armoured warrior may very well fight to the death, partly because of martial pride and partly because he's wearing too much steel to run fast, but he might actually try and surrender. Of course, a lich or vampire NPC can fight to the "death" with impunity.
On the flip side, your PCs might be the ones who are being beaten. Encourage them to have an extraction plan, and depending on the villain's disposition, allow them to escape or offer them the option of surrender. It's also classic for villains who have the upper hand to let their hubris get the best of them and sacrifice their advantage (dismissing their minion and entering melee, or standing around to gloat, or having a shiny floating weak spot for massive damage).

The shinies
Barring some unexpected unlucky rolls, your PCs will defeat the villains and hopefully loot their corpses. A boss should back some considerably sweet gear! Unless you want your PCs to be covered in artifacts from head to toe, it's okay to make some of the effects available to the boss unavailable to be looted. Obviously when the villain successfully escapes, the PCs get none of his things. If they do get to loot, having some effects as potions or scrolls rather than continuous use items lets you get away with shinier effects. Some items could be Evil (and bestow a negative level on Good and Neutral users). Others might only be usable by a character of the right faith, or require some sort of sacrifice to unlock their power. Intelligent items that can try and corrupt the user are fun to toss around.

I have a write-up for a series of encounters themed around an assassin hired to take the party in alive.

Thank you for the advice flickerdart,

Another question I would have (Because I am still trying to understand how ECL and CR work) is what do you think an appropriate level for the villain with use of his minions might be? I know this is a very broad question that leaves a slew of other questions open such as "how powerful are the minions?" or "how powerful do you want the villain" but any experience you have with this would be much appreciated!

[Flickerdart]

Another question I would have (Because I am still trying to understand how ECL and CR work) is what do you think an appropriate level for the villain with use of his minions might be? I know this is a very broad question that leaves a slew of other questions open such as "how powerful are the minions?" or "how powerful do you want the villain" but any experience you have with this would be much appreciated!
I would recommend aiming for an EL9 encounter. The best rule to remember is that a doubling of creatures is a +2 to CR. So an EL 9 encounter might consist of one CR7 villain and CR7 worth of minions. Four CR3 minions works - now the enemy is the same numbers as the party, with a few weak guys and a boss in charge.

A spellcaster will want minions who work well with his spells. A wizard that focuses on buffing and blasting might want ogres with reach weapons, who can form an impenetrable wall of defenders. A front-line fighter would like some mix of flanking buddies, archers, and spellcasters to buff him. A rogue that focuses on archery would like the ogres, while a melee oriented one might want a more diverse set of backers like the warrior.

Alternatively, you can try two CR5 guys as backup for the CR7 boss. Two trolls make an excellent meat shield, and their regeneration need not be overcome if your players are smart enough to take out their leader and intimidate them into running away.

[Geddy2112]

So for humanoids, it is their class levels -1. A level 5 wizard would be a CR 4. If they are mini boss battles, you probably want these encounters to be a CR6, 7, or maybe even 8 for your party level 5. If they are going to be back to back fights, a CR5 is fine.

You want the leader to be powerful, I would make them at least level 3(CR2). Their minions and underlings may vary- a bunch of small animals is not the same as skeletal champions is not the same as joe blow guards is not the same as experienced thugs.

[Tvtyrant]

At level 5-6 I would give the villain a cohort if minions. About 20 guys who are 1 HP level 1 warriors with scythes or bows. Have an alarm going off, every turn 1d4 more show up.

The villain is a level 8-9 caster focused on battlefield control. Black tentacles the party caster, solid fogs the Rogue, webs the fighter. Has a square of troops around him to make him difficult to reach, has Mage Armor and Resist Energy up.

[Flickerdart]

So for humanoids, it is their class levels -1. A level 5 wizard would be a CR 4. If they are mini boss battles, you probably want these encounters to be a CR6, 7, or maybe even 8 for your party level 5. If they are going to be back to back fights, a CR5 is fine.
No, humanoids are CR=class level. The -1 is only for NPC levels (warrior, adept, expert).