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Heliomance
2015-11-24, 11:54 AM
I'm planning on starting a short high-level campaign, and I thought I'd offer the players up to 3 points of free LA, to enable interesting and uncommon race choices. I don't just want everyone to go diving for 3LA worth of templates just because it's there, though, so what would be an equal-value alternative to offer, so that people who don't go for LA races or templates aren't at a disadvantage?

Dusk Raven
2015-11-24, 12:08 PM
I'm planning on starting a short high-level campaign, and I thought I'd offer the players up to 3 points of free LA, to enable interesting and uncommon race choices. I don't just want everyone to go diving for 3LA worth of templates just because it's there, though, so what would be an equal-value alternative to offer, so that people who don't go for LA races or templates aren't at a disadvantage?

Unfortunately, you've stumbled on the reason LA exists, because they need to make sure certain races don't overpower the core races (even though that is what would happen). LA is to make sure the monstrous races don't outpace the core races. Unfortunately, it overcompensates, and in general is sort of a bad thing. I've got my own ideas for "fixing" LA, but they require such sweeping changes that I'm going to have to make an entire thread dedicated to discussing the merits of the whole thing.

Basically, the problem with LA is that, aside from having less hit dice than your comrades, is that LA is something that you're stuck with for life, while the racial benefits you get tend to decrease in usefulness over levels, with rare exceptions like some spell resistance. I aim to change that - I'm going to make racial bonuses scale with level.

Yeah, it's going to take a lot of work. But it's the only way I can think of. Which should indicate there really is no easy answer to your problem, sadly.

ComaVision
2015-11-24, 12:09 PM
Gestalt with Monster Progressions? (Like Savage Species)

xyianth
2015-11-24, 12:28 PM
I'd think the simplest answer is to disallow templates. Allow players to ignore up to a combined total of 3 LA+RHD in their race choice. This will produce interesting race choices that won't normally see play. If you allow templates, certain templates on an otherwise LA+0 race will always be better than other options, specifically because races and templates were never properly balanced in 3.5. For even more esoteric racial choices, allow players to ignore 3LA and all RHD. This would open up lots of unusual player races. (for instance, an imp would be LA+1 in this model, and psionic thri-kreen would be LA+0)

If you really want to offer an alternative option to LA, you could look into incorporating the Bloodlines from UA into your non-LA characters. Keep in mind that because Bloodline levels count as class levels in all class level computations, there exist some abuses to watch out for. (namely: ardent power selection, binder level stacking, hellfire blast stacking, early entry into prestige classes, etc...) The default bloodlines are mostly garbage, so if you want to balance it against phrenic half-minotaur humans, you will need to create/allow custom ones.

As another alternative, instead of taking LA, allow players the option of building a legacy item. (from weapons of legacy) This gives approximately similar benefits over the course of a character's career as several templates would. However legacy items grow slowly, while templates tend to be front-loaded.

Finally, you could allow players that don't take advantage of LA to play a limited form of gestalt character. You would fix one half of their gestalt as a UA Expert. This would allow them 7 bonus feats, great skill points, and good saves regardless of their build. Caster builds would benefit from greater hp as well. This, like legacy items, grows over the career of a character.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-11-24, 01:29 PM
I like the idea of using gestalt. Grant three levels of free gestalt, with the option to fill one side with LA

Tarlek Flamehai
2015-11-24, 02:50 PM
How about +3 Levels of wealth?

razorback
2015-11-24, 02:53 PM
I like the gestalt option best but another option is to have differing levels of point buys based on any level adjustments.
Just as an example you could go 50 points for 0, 40 for 1, 30 for 2, and 20 for 3 levels of adjustment.

Flickerdart
2015-11-24, 02:53 PM
3 extra feats aren't a bad deal.

Curmudgeon
2015-11-24, 05:33 PM
I'd suggest a feat for each point of LA not taken, plus allowing a flaw for each as well (to a maximum of 2 flaws). The flaws have to meet with your approval: i.e., have real consequences for the character. Level 1 feats can be good, but more often you'll run into problems like needing +1 BAB for Weapon Finesse when you're starting with a 3/4 BAB class, which is why I'd allow 1-2 more feats to compensate.

Honest Tiefling
2015-11-24, 06:27 PM
I like the idea of feats, but what of additional ability scores? It can make certain builds a lot of easier to be more flexible with that. Relaxing certain prestige class requirements might be attractive to some wanting to try out new and fun prestige classes without strange, taxing or inappropriate requirements might be fun. Perhaps tack on alternate class features WITHOUT removing the original Class Feature would work for classes that aren't Wizard.

I wonder if the idea of Plot Coupons, such as being the King of Whatistville would be attractive to your players?

Draken
2015-11-24, 06:40 PM
I wouldn't do the point buy differences option. An attractive part of high LA creatures is their increased ability scores, after all. Playing a minotaur just doesn't have the same appeal if the human fighter is just as physically strong as you are.

Bonus feats sound like a good option to me. If you want to go the mile and read some of my work, you could do away with races altogether and let each player pick a number of Mutations (see the spoiler in my sig) to custom-make races to their preference.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-11-24, 07:23 PM
If they had bought off a +3 LA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) it would have cost them 45,000 xp. Having bought off a +2 LA would cost 16,000 xp, and having bought off a +1 LA would only be 3,000 xp.

Give each of them a 45,000 xp budget. They can trade 1 xp for 5 gp per the rules on NPC spellcasting costs, they can use it for the above level adjustment values, they can spend it on spells that cost experience such as Permanency, Wish, and Miracle, they can spend it crafting items via magic item creation feats, etc. Any of that budget that they don't spend at character creation is converted to 5 gp per 1 xp, so they all start play at the same xp total unless they spend more than that budget.

Honest Tiefling
2015-11-25, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't do the point buy differences option. An attractive part of high LA creatures is their increased ability scores, after all. Playing a minotaur just doesn't have the same appeal if the human fighter is just as physically strong as you are.

At the end of the day, that fighter is going to set their base strength at 18. Giving a higher point buy won't change that, it'll change how high their constitution or other ability score is. The fighter will lack the +8 anyway, so the Minotaur will always win out unless they set it to 10 or something.

Draken
2015-11-25, 05:59 PM
At the end of the day, that fighter is going to set their base strength at 18. Giving a higher point buy won't change that, it'll change how high their constitution or other ability score is. The fighter will lack the +8 anyway, so the Minotaur will always win out unless they set it to 10 or something.

Fair enough.

mackdaddie
2015-11-25, 08:38 PM
I'm planning on starting a short high-level campaign, and I thought I'd offer the players up to 3 points of free LA, to enable interesting and uncommon race choices. I don't just want everyone to go diving for 3LA worth of templates just because it's there, though, so what would be an equal-value alternative to offer, so that people who don't go for LA races or templates aren't at a disadvantage?


There really isn't a fix. Taking away LA means the little rats will metagame their characters into the netherworld with races, and you will not be happy with the results. Keep the LA in place, and ignore any whining about LA, you'll be fine.

ryu
2015-11-25, 08:51 PM
There really isn't a fix. Taking away LA means the little rats will metagame their characters into the netherworld with races, and you will not be happy with the results. Keep the LA in place, and ignore any whining about LA, you'll be fine.

Ignoring 3 LA isn't going to change the power level significantly for people who understand what power in this game is. Any fear of power from the sort of player capable of doing what you're suggesting is there LA or no LA. On the other hand the less experienced players get to see a bunch of fun new races.

Net effect? Not everyone is some samey basically human in a fantasy game with hundreds if not thousands of races. It is also assumed that the DM is competent enough to design challenges for players in this situation. No net change in challenge. Just less boring race selection.

Fizban
2015-11-26, 03:25 AM
I think everyone's hit on all my ideas and then some. I'd generally go with ability scores/feats/other bonuses roughly equivalent to what the other players are actually taking. I think an important question is just what you mean by "interesting and uncommon" races though, since most people that even know how LA works are probably most familiar with the interesting and powerful choices. Even if I could do it free I'd never take Lizardman or Gnoll if I had the option of something definitively better for the same free. Like Goliath or Petal.

Actually, you said 3 points of LA but nothing about racial hit dice: there are very few races that actually have that much LA without also having build destroying racial hit dice. Mucking about with freebies and HD conversions is again highly dependant on what people are actually interested in. Really I think the best option is asking the players what stuff they'd do if it didn't suck, then un-suck it.

Heliomance
2015-11-26, 04:35 AM
What I've done is said: Up to 3 points of free combined LA/RHD. If they desparately want something bigger than that I'd be prepared to give 4 if they make a strong case for it. For each point they don't take, they can have their choice of either a bonus level 1 feat, or 15k XP for crafting purposes etc.

xyianth
2015-11-26, 12:26 PM
I'd be curious to know what options people use with those rules. Off the top of my head, I'd imagine lots of phrenic/half-fey LA+0 races with the magic in the blood feat as the bonus 3rd point. These effectively act like a mini-gestalt when used together. (a decent argument could even be made for taking both and accepting the LA +1 total) Maybe some feral/lolth-touched half-minotaur mineral warriors for the more physical characters. Possibly a divine minion thrown in for good measure. There are only a handful of options that can compete with template stacking, but I don't know what power level your game/players are, so they may use more esoteric choices.

Heliomance
2015-11-27, 04:30 AM
I'd be curious to know what options people use with those rules. Off the top of my head, I'd imagine lots of phrenic/half-fey LA+0 races with the magic in the blood feat as the bonus 3rd point. These effectively act like a mini-gestalt when used together. (a decent argument could even be made for taking both and accepting the LA +1 total) Maybe some feral/lolth-touched half-minotaur mineral warriors for the more physical characters. Possibly a divine minion thrown in for good measure. There are only a handful of options that can compete with template stacking, but I don't know what power level your game/players are, so they may use more esoteric choices.

Oh yeah - no templates also.

Troacctid
2015-11-27, 05:27 AM
Hobgoblin Warcaster seems good. It's your normal Wizard casting, except as an (Ex) ability and with excellent racial ability mods. Marrulurk should also be solid, considering it's one of the rare high-ECL races that's actually worth it as-is for a lot of classes, and you just lopped three levels off the ECL. Pixies are good--very nice stats and fantastic abilities, easily worth the leftover +1 LA. Cheshire Cat should be amusing too--full Sorcerer casting and at-will supernatural greater invisibility with unlimited duration. Although on that note, under this system, Sylphs would actually have casting above their ECL, which is pretty nifty. Probably overpowered, I bet!

SangoProduction
2015-11-27, 12:13 PM
How about +3 Levels of wealth?

Wealth is better than LA. Getting even better at higher levels.

ericgrau
2015-11-27, 03:34 PM
Wealth is better than LA. Getting even better at higher levels.
Not really, costs to get the same bonus go up with level too. So it's a wash.

For the characters without an LA race I think there should preferably be something just as fun and interesting as an unusual race. Which is hard to do so you may opt for something simpler. But let's see. Typically a race gives stats and special abilities. In spite of popular myth, stats remain useful into high level because the cost to get another +2 goes up and your d20 never gets bigger. So it's precisely the same benefit to your chance to succeed at X. Special abilities OTOH can become obsolete because you (usually) only get 1 standard action and you might develop a better use for it. So let's make it a swift action ability for non-casters, and something else for casters who already use their swift and already have a lot of special abilities anyway (aka spells). How about this for example:


Gain a +2 in any 3 stats. For any stat that becomes a 20 this way before racial modifiers, explain it in your backstory. Exceptional foreign training during childhood, etc.

Choose two 1st level spells and one 2nd level spell from any full casting class list. Gain the 1st level spells as a quickened spell like ability each usable 3 times a day. You may select the same 1st level spell twice to get 6/day. Gain the second level spell as a quickened spell like ability usable once a day. At least 2 of the 3 should be roughly matching in theme, and you should explain the cause of all 3 in your backstory. Perhaps a magical ritual. The caster level is equal to your character level, and any save DC is charisma based.

Or as an alternative to #2 gain double the spells per day of a caster who is half your level (rounded down). Except these are not spells per day, they are spells per level. They refill whenever you level up, and may not be swapped unlike your other prepared spells. They must all be unique. You may swap 2 old spells when you level up, but the rest remain the same. If you are a spontaneous caster, gain the spells per day that a similar prepared caster would gain. You gain access to these spells via a handheld item (staff, orb, etc.) which you should explain through your backstory. The item is attuned specifically to you and does not function for others. It is very difficult to destroy and you may sense roughly where it is in spite of nearly all methods of concealing it.


#2 Lets players add in fun abilities to their build such as true strike, spider climb or another buff, BFC or a debuff. Obscuring mist + blindfight/blindsense/blindfight item/feat is a nice combo for example.

#3 encourages one off utility spells, which can be loads of fun. Though this is a personal preference of mine, and you may want to change this to your own preferences. Either something else with extra spells that doesn't add much raw power (also low level spells or etc.), or something that alters some of their existing spells somehow that isn't too strong. Perhaps a +1 metamagic and/or "+0 metamagic" that affects all their spells.

Tarlek Flamehai
2015-11-29, 05:29 PM
with the magic in the blood feat

I see this feat tossed around a lot. Hardly anyone takes into account that this is a Forgotten Realms regional feat, and specific to only a handful of races. A lot of people forget that even if you are a a Fey'ri from Delimbiyr Vale, Phrenic is not your race. Thus the SLAs from Phrenic (or other) templates are unaffected by Magic in the Blood.

xyianth
2015-11-30, 01:37 AM
I see this feat tossed around a lot. Hardly anyone takes into account that this is a Forgotten Realms regional feat, and specific to only a handful of races. A lot of people forget that even if you are a a Fey'ri from Delimbiyr Vale, Phrenic is not your race. Thus the SLAs from Phrenic (or other) templates are unaffected by Magic in the Blood.

A) It is accepted practice that regional feats can be used in other settings, the racial requirements remain however. (i.e dwarf, elf, gnome, spirit folk, or planetouched)
B) Phrenic, and any other template, are absolutely modifying your race; and any SLAs granted are by definition racial SLAs.

Crake
2015-11-30, 01:48 AM
A) It is accepted practice that regional feats can be used in other settings, the racial requirements remain however. (i.e dwarf, elf, gnome, spirit folk, or planetouched)
B) Phrenic, and any other template, are absolutely modifying your race; and any SLAs granted are by definition racial SLAs.

I could see it being argued that an acquired template might not be acceptable for the feat, but phrenic, being an inherited template definitely does apply.

Shoat
2015-11-30, 02:36 AM
A) It is accepted practice that regional feats can be used in other settings, the racial requirements remain however. (i.e dwarf, elf, gnome, spirit folk, or planetouched)
B) Phrenic, and any other template, are absolutely modifying your race; and any SLAs granted are by definition racial SLAs.

Yes, regional feats should generally be useable in other settings. But you have to apply common sense to that.

There's a difference between "this feat's setting-specific requirements are stupid, one should be able to take it even in other settings" and "this feat is supposed to only give a small setting-specific bonus to weak and gimmicky racial SLAs, so let's abuse it for what it clearly wasn't intended to be and have it boost a rare and unusual template".

Just because the designers didn't think of one specific interaction across books you shouldn't feel obligated to rape the rules to create some broken nonsense. Then again, why am I wasting my time saying that over and over in this forum of all places?

Dusk Raven
2015-11-30, 02:54 AM
All right, so, I was digging around in the Pathfinder Bestiary, and since they don't have LA, I was curious as to how they handled monster PCs. The results were... interesting.

So, unless I'm massively misreading it, it works as follows: Say we have a Minotaur. 6 HD, CR 4, same as in 3.5. Now, in 3.5 they'd have 6 racial hit dice and a +2 LA atop that. Not so in Pathfinder. Say we have a Minotaur joining a level 6 party. Since the Minotaur is CR 4, he gains two character class levels to catch up with the party. It gets better - every 3 levels the party advances, he gains an additional level, somewhere between number 2 and 3 in the cycle, until the total number gained this way is equal to his CR rounded down, in this case, 2.

Yeah.

In fairness, Pathfinder characters get a bevy of cool features compared to 3.5, which is just even more stuff you don't get with racial hit dice. They also don't specify how to calculate ability score bonuses, at least not in my copy, so I'm not sure what to do about that... standard method of determining bonuses from monsters, I guess. They also say to keep an eye out to make sure the monster PC doesn't disrupt play.

So, anyone have any experience with that, or foresee any problems? I'll have to do some investigating, possibly figure out how to tweak things, but basing things off CR seems better than using LA...

xyianth
2015-11-30, 04:21 AM
Yes, regional feats should generally be useable in other settings. But you have to apply common sense to that.

There's a difference between "this feat's setting-specific requirements are stupid, one should be able to take it even in other settings" and "this feat is supposed to only give a small setting-specific bonus to weak and gimmicky racial SLAs, so let's abuse it for what it clearly wasn't intended to be and have it boost a rare and unusual template".

That is not at all what I am doing. The feat, without any modification whatsoever, works on phrenic creatures that otherwise meet the requirements. Phrenic creature is part of the SRD for crying out loud, you can take it in FR just fine. The only modification on the feat is to allow you to ignore the regional requirement in other settings, which even in FR isn't hard and fast anyway. Remember, regional feat requirements in FR can be met by taking 2 whole skill ranks in the appropriate knowledge(local) skill. The interaction of the feat is specifically stated in such a way as to work with LA adjusted races; like the fey'ri. A phrenic elf is nothing more than a slightly different LA adjusted elf.


Just because the designers didn't think of one specific interaction across books you shouldn't feel obligated to rape the rules to create some broken nonsense. Then again, why am I wasting my time saying that over and over in this forum of all places?

Honestly, I don't know why you are wasting your time on this useless drivel. No one is arguing intent because intent is subjective and therefore there is no correct interpretation of intent. You don't want to allow the feat to work with the template? Fine, no one is forcing you. That doesn't change what is allowed by the rules though, and any attempt by people like you to argue otherwise is a gigantic waste of time for all involved. The only meaningful part of the rules to discuss on a public forum is what they state RAW. RAI will change from player to player, DM to DM, and table to table. RAW is the only thing that even remotely approaches an objective state of the rules, so RAW is how people make recommendations and suggestions. But please, don't stop trying to make the case that your interpretation of common sense is the only universal truth in all the universe on my account; just don't expect me to care.
/rant

Tarlek Flamehai
2015-12-01, 12:15 PM
A) It is accepted practice that regional feats can be used in other settings, the racial requirements remain however. (i.e dwarf, elf, gnome, spirit folk, or planetouched)
B) Phrenic, and any other template, are absolutely modifying your race; and any SLAs granted are by definition racial SLAs.

By RAW, you are incorrect in both cases.

It may be accepted homebrew practice to allow regional feats across all settings, but it isn't RAW.

A template modifies the individual creature, not the race. That is rather the entire to point to having templates.

xyianth
2015-12-01, 12:39 PM
By RAW, you are incorrect in both cases.

It may be accepted homebrew practice to allow regional feats across all settings, but it isn't RAW.

A template modifies the individual creature, not the race. That is rather the entire to point to having templates.

I'll grant that using regional feats in other settings is a gray area, remember even in FR the regional "requirements" can be met with 2 ranks in the appropriate knowledge(local) skill. If it is possible to acquire those ranks in another setting, then you can take the regional feat without homebrew at all. However, whether those ranks are possible outside FR is firmly up to the DM anyway.

But you are wrong about templates. You will need to provide a citation that indicates that SLAs granted by a template are not considered racial SLAs. Templates do modify an individual creature, but that is irrelevant. "Racial SLAs" do not mean SLAs granted by a base race, they mean SLAs that the creature possesses as a result of it's (potentially template modified) race. Templates modify the creature's biology and all aspects granted by them become part of the creature's racial abilities. This is no different than advancing a creature's HD and counting any attributes or powers gained as part of the creature. What term would you use to reference the SLAs granted by a template if not 'racial SLAs'?

Curmudgeon
2015-12-01, 04:12 PM
But you are wrong about templates. You will need to provide a citation that indicates that SLAs granted by a template are not considered racial SLAs.
You've got the default backward, I'm afraid. Some template changes are specified to be racial, but most aren't. The general rules for templates are in Monster Manual on pages 291-293, and there's no mention of race in any of that. Explicit statement of racial bonuses is important, because of the following rule (from Player's Handbook, page 171):
With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus works (see Combining Magical Effects, below).

SangoProduction
2015-12-01, 06:11 PM
I'll grant that using regional feats in other settings is a gray area, remember even in FR the regional "requirements" can be met with 2 ranks in the appropriate knowledge(local) skill. If it is possible to acquire those ranks in another setting, then you can take the regional feat without homebrew at all. However, whether those ranks are possible outside FR is firmly up to the DM anyway.

But you are wrong about templates. You will need to provide a citation that indicates that SLAs granted by a template are not considered racial SLAs. Templates do modify an individual creature, but that is irrelevant. "Racial SLAs" do not mean SLAs granted by a base race, they mean SLAs that the creature possesses as a result of it's (potentially template modified) race. Templates modify the creature's biology and all aspects granted by them become part of the creature's racial abilities. This is no different than advancing a creature's HD and counting any attributes or powers gained as part of the creature. What term would you use to reference the SLAs granted by a template if not 'racial SLAs'?

Can you prove that unicorns don't exist?

You need to provide a citation for "It is a racial SLA".


You've got the default backward, I'm afraid. Some template changes are specified to be racial, but most aren't. The general rules for templates are in Monster Manual on pages 291-293, and there's no mention of race in any of that. Explicit statement of racial bonuses is important, because of the following rule (from Player's Handbook, page 171):

We aren't really talking about bonuses, we are talking about "What makes something a racial ability/SLA/whatever." And no one gave evidence one way or the other. Racial bonuses, you could have a point on. However, look at the Elf in player's handbook. It says the get racial bonuses to numbers, but non-number (ie non-bonus) things are not marked as racial (although it's assumed to be a racial ability...because it's granted by the race).


Immunity to sleep spells and effects

An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.

The question is "How do we know what is and is not a racial ability,"

Curmudgeon
2015-12-01, 07:39 PM
We aren't really talking about bonuses, we are talking about "What makes something a racial ability/SLA/whatever."
I mentioned racial bonuses because there's a specific rule which lets those stack. But racial benefits still need to be stated as such. Except in a few cases where explicitly stated as racial, template benefits are to the character directly, not to the character's race.

Let's look at an example template, “Draconic” (Races of the Dragon, page 74). This template provides the following:

darkvision 60' (not racial)
low-light vision (not racial)
+4 bonus to saves vs. magic sleep and paralysis (racial)
ability changes: Str +2, Con +2, Cha +2 (not racial)
+2 Intimidate and Spot skill bonuses (racial)

xyianth
2015-12-01, 09:19 PM
Ok, this might be the most bizarre argument I have ever been a part of.

As far as I can tell, 'racial SLA' isn't a defined game term. SLA is obviously defined, but I am unable to locate even one reference to an SLA being defined as 'racial'. If it is not a defined game term, it defaults to basic english: "of or relating to race."

From this, if you define a creature's race as the base race, and only the base race, then SLAs that are granted by templates are not racial SLAs and I concede the point.
If you instead define a creature's race as the unison between base race and templates, then I stand by the interpretation of template granted SLAs as racial SLAs. (This is my interpretation, but I freely admit it is only an interpretation)

As far as I can tell, while race is a defined game term, the specifics of that is rather murky. Most race requirements are actually acting on the creature's subtypes, not their race. In fact, I am not sure that a creature's race is ever actually used for anything except to define the creature's type, subtypes, and starting statistics.


With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus works (see Combining Magical Effects, below).
...
ability changes: Str +2, Con +2, Cha +2 (not racial)

Does this mean that say a half-fey draconic human would only receive the better of the two templates' ability bonuses; resulting in Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Wis +2, Cha +4? That is not how I have ever seen templates interact, but I think that would be the implication of what you cited.

Curmudgeon
2015-12-01, 09:33 PM
Does this mean that say a half-fey draconic human would only receive the better of the two templates' ability bonuses; resulting in Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Wis +2, Cha +4?
That template line states:

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Con +2, Cha +2. There is no use of the word "bonus". There are stacking rules related to bonuses, but no stacking rule regarding template ability changes which are not bonuses. This is similar to the ability score improvement at every 4th character level: not bonuses, and thus not subject to any limits.

gadren
2015-12-02, 09:15 PM
This is what I do in my games:

Level Adjusted races:
Level adjusted races do not get fewer class levels than other races. However, they have other restrictions to balance them out:

The following applies to all LA races:
Races with racial hitdice: Remove all racial hitdice.
Races with ability scores bonuses of more than +4: Reduce any ability scores bonus of +6 or higher to a +4.
Races with natural spell casting: Racially-granted spellcasting (such as with driders), cannot grant you an effective level in a spellcasting class greater than your number of PC levels.
For example, a drider Adept 3/Wizard 4 could also cast spells as a 4th level cleric or a 4th level sorcerer (depending on the choice made when he took his first PC level). A drider Expert 2/Rogue 6/Wizard 4 could cast spells as a 10th level wizard, a 6th level cleric, or a 6th level sorcerer.

The following applies to races with a specific level adjustment:
LA +1: If the race has more than a total of +4 in ability scores bonuses (including penalties), reduce the bonuses until the total is +4. Then, choose ONE of the following options: take a -2 penalty to an ability score of your choice, lose 1 feat, or take at least 1 level in an NPC class (such as expert, warrior, adept**, magewright***, or talented****) instead of a PC class.
LA +2: Take at least 2 levels in an NPC class (such as expert, warrior, adept**, magewright***, or talented****) instead of a PC class. At level 5, you may replace* one level of your NPC class with a PC level (in addition to gaining another PC level).
LA +3: Take at least 3 levels in an NPC class (such as expert, warrior, adept**, magewright***, or talented****) instead of a PC class. At level 6, you may replace* one level of your NPC class with a PC level (in addition to gaining another PC level). At level 9, you may give up your 9th level feat in exchange for replacing another level in your NPC class with a PC level.
LA +4: Take at least 4 levels in an NPC class (such as expert, warrior, adept**, magewright***, or talented****) instead of a PC class. At level 7, and again at level 10, you may replace* one level of your NPC class with a PC level (in addition to gaining another PC level).
LA +5 or More: Not allowed as a player race unless you play as a racial class (you may request a racial class writeup from the GM if there isn't an existing official one.)
Level Adjustment Templates: LA +1 templates must take a level in an NPC class. Also, the GM is likely to change the LA of many templates available to PCs, as many of those published were poorly balanced for some reason.

LudicSavant
2015-12-02, 09:28 PM
If they had bought off a +3 LA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) it would have cost them 45,000 xp. Having bought off a +2 LA would cost 16,000 xp, and having bought off a +1 LA would only be 3,000 xp.

You also have to account for the XP river effect. That is, players who are at a lower level than the rest of the party gain more XP than the rest of the party, and eventually catch up. XP costs are temporary setbacks.