Can't choose...Sorcerer, Wizard or something else?

[samcifer]

Okay, I'm heavily familiar with 4e, but not any other editions, but want to learn 5e.

I like playing a magic-user who focuses on damage, but also likes being able to use control spells (like Sleep and Web) to give me flexibility in battle by casting from a distance without becoming a 'glass cannon' type of character as I hate dying.

I like the wizard class, but really hate that I apparently can't use whichever spell I want to when needed, hampering my 'ready for anything' combat philosophy. Sorcerer seems like a better choice, but I'm not entirely sure as I don't really get the 'sorcery points' mechanic and they seem to lack the ability to perform rituals, if I understand the phb correctly. I like the Wizard as they have a greater variety of spells and can do more out of combat.

I also really like the idea of a versatile caster like the Bladesinger (sadly a no-go as only elves can be them and I dislike the idea of playing an elf) as they can fight up close and have extra protection from armor, but don't want to sacrifice many possible spell-choices. Having lots of different spells to choose from is important to me in the character I go with.

As for class, I tend to lean towards Tiefling, Half-Orc and Human, but also like Warforged and Shifters. I will play a human reluctantly as they are a rather bland race (why play human when I can be a Tiefling, Half-Orc or Warforged, for example. Genasi are also an interesting race to play. I find elves and Dwarves boring as their races have been done to death in literature, so I like more exotic, bestial or sinister races.

Can anyone give me helpful advice on this? Thanks in advance.

[ji6]

If you want to be "ready for anything," the wizard has an advantage in that not only can you swap out spells whenever you want (so you do not have a bunch of wasted spells), but also that you actually can prepare a larger list of spells than a sorcerer can have. For example, at level 5, a sorcerer knows 6 spells, but a wizard can prepare 5+int amount of spells, so probably 9 spells. This difference becomes even more pronounced throughout the career of a sorcerer, as they tend to only have a few spells of each level that they know, while a wizard might have a ton. So, I would not worry about the fact that you can not use all your spells as a wizard, because you are really ahead of the curve with spells you are ready to cast at anytime.

The main benefit of a sorcerer is that they can do more with their limited resources. Using sorcerer points, they can tweak their spells to be more appropriate for the situation. Careful is a really good example of this trait. A sorcerer could cast a web spell that would affect everyone but their allies if a region, which is something a wizard could never recreate.

As for specifically bladesinger, a lot of DMs will likely wave the elf requirement (even says that a DM may in the description) as that is mainly a flavor thing for the book. Although, getting up close regardless of your AC is dangerous as wizards have really low health, weak to aoe breath weapons, and fail against grapplers. So you know, the sorcerer melee class is the Favored Soul, something that is pretty good all around in my opinion and many DMs will allow as it was posted by the book writers themselves. (link to favored: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes )

In summary,

Wizard Pros

Knows more spells
Can prepare more spells than sorcerer even knows
Has schools that buff one type of spell
(Melee Option) Bladesinger has decent AC and good concentration. Later has ways to prevent people from KOing you fast.


Sorcerer Pros

Good at tweaking spells for situation
Good at tweaking spell slots
Has origins that are active a majority of the time
(Melee Option) Favored Soul has amazing spells (pick any domain spells), and decent armor for AC. Later has flying speed.


P.S. For races, just pick what you want. Generally, if it has a stat buff to your casting stat, that is amazing, otherwise just choose what you like or want to play. If you plan tiefling, note there is an option in sword coast to get dex/int instead of int/cha.

[Alejandro]

Okay, I'm heavily familiar with 4e, but not any other editions, but want to learn 5e.

I like playing a magic-user who focuses on damage, but also likes being able to use control spells (like Sleep and Web) to give me flexibility in battle by casting from a distance without becoming a 'glass cannon' type of character as I hate dying.

I like the wizard class, but really hate that I apparently can't use whichever spell I want to when needed, hampering my 'ready for anything' combat philosophy. Sorcerer seems like a better choice, but I'm not entirely sure as I don't really get the 'sorcery points' mechanic and they seem to lack the ability to perform rituals, if I understand the phb correctly. I like the Wizard as they have a greater variety of spells and can do more out of combat.

I also really like the idea of a versatile caster like the Bladesinger (sadly a no-go as only elves can be them and I dislike the idea of playing an elf) as they can fight up close and have extra protection from armor, but don't want to sacrifice many possible spell-choices. Having lots of different spells to choose from is important to me in the character I go with.

As for class, I tend to lean towards Tiefling, Half-Orc and Human, but also like Warforged and Shifters. I will play a human reluctantly as they are a rather bland race (why play human when I can be a Tiefling, Half-Orc or Warforged, for example. Genasi are also an interesting race to play. I find elves and Dwarves boring as their races have been done to death in literature, so I like more exotic, bestial or sinister races.

Can anyone give me helpful advice on this? Thanks in advance.

Somewhat unorthodox compared to your description (which sounds like an evoker wizard as far as focusing on damage): Be a wizard Diviner.

Use your powers to 'foresee' the situations you run into, and use those Portent d20 rolls to make things go your way. In fact, be a Human (feat variant) and take the Lucky feat, and you'll have even more d20 rolls to play with!

You can still load up on blasting spells, you'll just have the option to make enemies miss you, make them fail their saves, etc. Which is great fun.

[kaoskonfety]

Yikes...

Tiefling Sorcerer gets some RP mileage, a few extra spell tricks and badass horns/cat eyes, barbed tail/whatever and I'd be ALL over that.

But "ready for anything" is wizard. Ritual spells, good cantrips and the potential to learn your entire non-cantrip spell list. You will typically have more usable spells prepared than the sorcerer KNOWS. Race really doesn't matter THAT much, pick what looks cool.

For Melee, but a caster, I'd nudge you to take a good LONG look at Blade Warlock. Devils Sight invocation/darkness is the default Tiefling Warlock cheese and hellish rebuke from a devil touched is pretty funny, but there's alot more in there. Light armour does wonders, the larger Hit Die covers most of the rest of the distance.
When you go warlock you generally get locked into a smaller set of tricks than the other casters so "ready for anything" will need some careful considerations on skill, spell and invocation selection, but I loves them to pieces.

[samcifer]

I know it's a bit unorthodox. :) In 4e (before my group fell apart due to the DM having a second baby with his wife) I played an optimized Tiefling Wizard who focused on a mix of control spells and fire attack spells with a few defensive options like Shield and Watery Double. I know 5e combat is much different and damaging spells are much less powerful in comparison to melee-focused characters in non-4th editions.

I've also looked around online, but cannot find which book the Bladesinger is in. Which one is it? I have all the core books, Sowrd Coast Adventurer's guide and Princes of the Apocalypse is on the way, but not sure what all is in that one.

[Alejandro]

I know it's a bit unorthodox. :) In 4e (before my group fell apart due to the DM having a second baby with his wife) I played an optimized Tiefling Wizard who focused on a mix of control spells and fire attack spells with a few defensive options like Shield and Watery Double. I know 5e combat is much different and damaging spells are much less powerful in comparison to melee-focused characters in non-4th editions.

I've also looked around online, but cannot find which book the Bladesinger is in. Which one is it? I have all the core books, Sowrd Coast Adventurer's guide and Princes of the Apocalypse is on the way, but not sure what all is in that one.

Bladesinger is in the Sword Coast book. If you go Bladesinger, you won't pick a wizard school to specialize in, as your specialty will be bladesinging (melee.)

[Levism84]

If you are looking for casting options, I might suggest a few different things you may not have considered (probably for good reason):

Bard with College of Lore is also a good class if you are looking for versatility in spellcasting, getting to add a number of spells from any spell list to your spells known. Plus, if you are looking for general versatility, they are a class that is hard to beat.

Cleric with the Arcana domain (SCAG) adds some pretty quintessential wizard spells to your spell list as always being prepared, grants 2 bonus wizard cantrips known, and at higher levels lets you add a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level wizard spell to your spell list as always being prepared. I would grab up wish and giggle maniacally as you basically wield both wish and "miracle" (Divine Intervention is basically a 1/week miracle spell). This is in addition to the cleric spells you will be able to prepare, and the ritual casting you get. You could always grab up the Ritual Caster feat for wizard if you really felt like it. Not the same range of spells as the wizard, but very solid for utility casting. Also, since Wisdom is your casting stat for cleric, your Wisdom saves (very common) will be much higher.

Warlock might be worth considering, especially with Pact of the Tome. You get bonus cantrips, short rest recharge spell slots (which may lend you to more casting power per day), and you can take the invocation that lets you add ANY ritual to your Book of Shadows. That provides a good deal of spell versatility.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

If you want a wizard with built in survival ability, just go Abjurer.

Their abilities are excellent for keeping yourself alive and probably apply to more situations than Bladesinger.

And if you want to multiclass, Abjurer/Warlock is hilariously synergistic. Just throw up Armor of Agathys, hit people with Agonizing Eldritch Blasts and cast Shield a lot, in between throwing control spells like Hypnotic Pattern.

It does suffer a bit from MAD, though.

[MrStabby]

Maybe a druid of the land?

Druid spells are a good mixture of damage and control Add in the "domain" spells from your land area and you actually have a pretty awesome selection of spells. Not quite as ready for anything as the wizard, but almost as much. You will have more hitpoins - so less of the glass cannon you worried about.

Druid also covers part of the ready for anything with wildshapes. So many different creatures with different abilities that you can access. You ask why play a human when you can play a tiefling or a half orc? why play any of these when you can be a giant octopus, a great ape or a giant wasp?

[samcifer]

I'll look into the bard class. Admittedly I haven't studied up on that one yet.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

A Dragon sorcerer is fairly decent if you can convince your DM to give you a few more spells. Otherwise I'd look at the UA or SCAG sorcerers.

Wizard is the most adaptable. Since you're concerned about survival I'd lean more toward an Abjurer or a Bladesinger.

Another way to go would be an Arcane or a Light cleric. Can carry decent armor and a shield, and still do the blasting thing. A hill dwarf, while not your favorite race, does add additional toughness.

[Mechaviking]

If you have a hard time deciding what to do in combat, I´d go with sorcerer, but Wizards seems to fit your playstyle better.

Also I could play a half elf and be a bladesinger(pending GM permission).

[silveralen]

Given what you said you liked to play, dragon sorcerer is a strong contender.

First off you have a good selection of damage spells and get a boost to them from low levels (compared to evoker wizard). You also have metamagic, which can boost damage somewhat. However, things like careful spell and heighten actually make sorcerer one of the better classes for tossing control spells around, especially ones that normally risk friendly fire (web and stinking cloud for example) or single target debuffs like hold person/monster. You also aren't particularly fragile. You've got effectively d8 health, always active mage armor, and are prof in con saves so your concentration spells don't get knocked off easily.

However, sorcerer does rely greatly on metamagic to stand out. If you don't want to use metamagic, you'd probably want to look elsewhere. It also doesn't have a huge variety of spells, another sticking point.

You could also look towards cleric and valor bard for other variations on a versatile caster, both of whom arguably do it better than blade singer. Both are a little lacking in straight damage spells, but valor bard can steal those later and some cleric domains make up for it as well. Tempest cleric for example.

As far as race goes, how important is optimization for you? Because most races you find interesting aren't particularly good. The only race listed good for casting is tiefling, who works for wizard or sorcerer, and gensai who'd work as Fire gensai for wizard. If you go as a frontline caster half Orc is better but still questionable.

[Vogonjeltz]

Okay, I'm heavily familiar with 4e, but not any other editions, but want to learn 5e.

I like playing a magic-user who focuses on damage, but also likes being able to use control spells (like Sleep and Web) to give me flexibility in battle by casting from a distance without becoming a 'glass cannon' type of character as I hate dying.

I like the wizard class, but really hate that I apparently can't use whichever spell I want to when needed, hampering my 'ready for anything' combat philosophy. Sorcerer seems like a better choice, but I'm not entirely sure as I don't really get the 'sorcery points' mechanic and they seem to lack the ability to perform rituals, if I understand the phb correctly. I like the Wizard as they have a greater variety of spells and can do more out of combat.

I also really like the idea of a versatile caster like the Bladesinger (sadly a no-go as only elves can be them and I dislike the idea of playing an elf) as they can fight up close and have extra protection from armor, but don't want to sacrifice many possible spell-choices. Having lots of different spells to choose from is important to me in the character I go with.

As for class, I tend to lean towards Tiefling, Half-Orc and Human, but also like Warforged and Shifters. I will play a human reluctantly as they are a rather bland race (why play human when I can be a Tiefling, Half-Orc or Warforged, for example. Genasi are also an interesting race to play. I find elves and Dwarves boring as their races have been done to death in literature, so I like more exotic, bestial or sinister races.

Can anyone give me helpful advice on this? Thanks in advance.

There are effectively 3 types of casters based on the multiclassing rules in the PHB:

Full - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard
Half - Paladin, Ranger
Third - Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster

Pact Magic doesn't mix with the others, but as long as you're single-classing, you will have about as many spell casts as any of the full caster would if single-classing.

Mixing full with half or third slows down your progression (and results in fewer total spell slots).

Basically all the classess have access to both direct damage and control spells.

For comparison, a Lore Bard knows 30 spells by level 20 and a Wizard can prepare up to 25. So although a Wizard might have a longer list of spells in their book, in the breach they have to have winnowed their spell choice to far fewer than a Bard.

[SharkForce]

For comparison, a Lore Bard knows 30 spells by level 20 and a Wizard can prepare up to 25. So although a Wizard might have a longer list of spells in their book, in the breach they have to have winnowed their spell choice to far fewer than a Bard.

27. a typical level 20 wizard has 27 spells prepared at any given time.

[Zalabim]

For comparison, a Lore Bard knows 30 spells by level 20 and a Wizard can prepare up to 25. So although a Wizard might have a longer list of spells in their book, in the breach they have to have winnowed their spell choice to far fewer than a Bard.

24. A Lore Bard only gets extra magical secrets once. All other magical secrets are already included in the number of spells known.

[Vogonjeltz]

27. a typical level 20 wizard has 27 spells prepared at any given time.

Edit: ah, didn't count the signature spells


24. A Lore Bard only gets extra magical secrets once. All other magical secrets are already included in the number of spells known.

Ah so they are

[samcifer]

Okay, so Wizard or sorcerer it would be then. I like the idea of the Bladesinger as it would give me higher AC and let me do better in melee if I get pounced or cornered, but still have a wide range of spells to choose from. Love that Watery Sphere (one of my favorite 4e powers) is still here. I'm only sad that they made it of a higher level tan in 4e, but I can see why as it's pretty powerful and I love that whole Dumbledore water-prison in HP pt. 4 effect. :)