Got the Sword coast book today

[Spacehamster]

So what is your take on the new subclasses? Did not really find any of them that appealing xcpt the monk ones. But for the most I find the ones in the PHB more appealing. :)

[Spacehamster]

The new paladin subclass seemed really weak but did not have time to look that close so maybe missed something. :)

[mephnick]

They're definitely more thematic than useful. I think they fit in well with a setting book, but you've really got to want to roleplay that character to choose a purple dragon knight or an undying warlock over the PHB options.

[Spacehamster]

They're definitely more thematic than useful. I think they fit in well with a setting book, but you've really got to want to roleplay that character to choose a purple dragon knight or an undying warlock over the PHB options.

With the purple dragon knight I did not get one thing, when you "share" your powers to give allies benefits, do you yourself still get the original benefit of the skill you share?

[Gwendol]

Not really 100% certain of the actual wording, but if you share something it is understood the one doing the sharing will have part of the benefit (or part of whatever is being shared).

[endur]

My only comment on the dwarven battlerager is that I didn't like what they did with spiked armor. They have spiked armor as leather plus spikes (ac 14, dex modifier 2). Spiked armor should be metal armor, and it really ought to be heavy armor.

I understand why they chose medium armor -- barbarians restricted to medium, and extra mobility to represent the battlerager charging in like a football game, but it really should have been metal armor.

[Baptor]

I'm a huge d&d fan and a huge Realms fan. Few anticipated this book more than me. I was utterly underwhelmed in all aspects of it. It wasn't just the content itself, but the way it was presented. The book seemed sloppy, like it was done in haste and without thought or care. I've gone back and am buying the old stuff used. That was quality. I used to complain then, but I didn't know how good I had it. As far as the SCAG, in the words of my father, "I'm not mad, just disappointed."

[JellyPooga]

Heh. I picked up the SCAG yesterday myself and the only subclasses I didn't really get on with were the Monk ones!

The new Barbarian Totems open up some very nice movement shananigans; I like.

Arcane Domain is nice; not too powerful and definitely thematic. It's still definitely Cleric territory stuff instead of cribbing off of the Wizards niche.

I'm not a fan of Fighters in general, but the Purp Knight fits nicely into the "Leader" archetype of the high charisma warrior that you follow because he's awesome nice and usually has the best ideas! I think I'd like to see him have the Commanders Strike Battlemaster Maneuver, but I guess you can always pick it up with a Feat.

Again, I'm not a big Paladin fan and the Oath of the Crown just looks like another variation on the theme to me, but I see nothing "wrong" with it, per se and thematically it's a niche that hasn't really been covered, so I can go with this one.

I very much like the Mastermind and Swashbuckler; both thematic Rogue niches not covered by the PHB ones. Solid.

Storm Sorcery gives us a much needed 3rd Bloodline. I'd have preferred it if they'd generalised it to be Elemental and covered all four classical elements instead of just Air, but apart from that, solid Bloodline alternative to Dragon or Wild.

I know a lot of people complain about the Undying Warlock Patron as being weak, but I quite like it. It's thematically appropriate, for sure. I think Defy Death could be improved a lot without breaking anything; just removing the 1/long rest limitation would do it. Otherwise I think there's potential here.

Bladesinger Wizards; stomping on the Eldritch Knights toes bugs me some, but I like the Elf-only restriction and it's a solid subclass.

Then we have the Monk. Urgh...thematically I don't know where they're coming from. The Long Death stuff would be better off over in the Undying Warlocks corner; Monks obsessed with death so they're scary and don't die? No, doesn't do it for me. As for Sun Soul Monks; since when do Monks have ray guns? I know some people like the whole Dragonball-Z connection (or whatever it is), but this ain't DZ, it's D&D. Monks are martial-arts guys, not zappy-death-ray guys. Sorry, you're getting way too much anime in my western fantasy with this one. Mechanically speaking I got no problem with either one; they're not "broken". It's just the theme of them that doesn't make any sense to me.

[Maxilian]

My opinion on the classes:

-Barbarian: It really cool/fun and its better than what you think! (i hate the Dwarf restriction though)

-Fighter: I didn't like this one, it was a little meeeehhh for me

-Paladin: I really like it, its not going to give you the best DPR but you're going to be a good tank (you're not supposed to take all the damage your party members take, its more to save the squishy mage :P), you get many control abilities (that's great for a tank!)

-Sorcerer: I like it (the UA one, minus the spell list)

-Warlock: Dam, this have such a cool flavor, but its sooo underwhelming BUT you get Death Ward as a Warlock, that's really good!!

-Monk: Both are really cool and flavorful, could not be everyone cup of tea, but i'm pretty sure those are great additions for the Monk

-Wizard: Having really read much into it (I'm not thinking, nor interested right now in playing a Bladesinger)

[Maxilian]

Then we have the Monk. Urgh...thematically I don't know where they're coming from. The Long Death stuff would be better off over in the Undying Warlocks corner; Monks obsessed with death so they're scary and don't die? No, doesn't do it for me. As for Sun Soul Monks; since when do Monks have ray guns? I know some people like the whole Dragonball-Z connection (or whatever it is), but this ain't DZ, it's D&D. Monks are martial-arts guys, not zappy-death-ray guys. Sorry, you're getting way too much anime in my western fantasy with this one. Mechanically speaking I got no problem with either one; they're not "broken". It's just the theme of them that doesn't make any sense to me.

Well... the DBZ connection is just done because its fun, but the problem its that you have the DBZ image in your head, try to look at it as rays made of ki -i mean, that's what they are- (I don't understand how that would be more strange than an Elemental/Shadow Monk or a Wizard in general), also the Sun Soul monk do feel like a monk, cause they don't have the best damage, but... you have way more mobility than every other monk cause you're not forced to be in melee (its really fun) and the Long Death Monks..., well i did found this one strange at the beginning but i like how they went for someone based around Death that is not really just Necromancy.

[Naanomi]

I don't like battlerager being incompatible with barbarian's unarmored defense (especially with a dwarf's con bonus)

I don't like mastermind and assassin's blending of roles... A 'master of disguise' has to choose between lying well or making false identities

Apart from these small mechanical inconsistencies I think they all fill a good niche either globally or in FR specifically

[Maxilian]

I don't like battlerager being incompatible with barbarian's unarmored defense (especially with a dwarf's con bonus)


I think that's good, its not like all Barbarians should be unarmored (I like how they tried to go with something completely different from the rest of the class)



I don't like mastermind and assassin's blending of roles... A 'master of disguise' has to choose between lying well or making false identities

I don't think it really blends, in the end, they both uses their abilities for a really different reason, the Assassin uses his disguise to get near his target without problem (and to sneak out), and the Mastermind its the head of the things that happen around, its target its not the life of someone, its information).

[Grey Watcher]

...

Bladesinger Wizards; stomping on the Eldritch Knights toes bugs me some, but I like the Elf-only restriction and it's a solid subclass.

....

I dunno, I think it works nicely: the Eldritch Knight is a Fighter who dabbles in Wizardry and the Bladesinger is a Wizard who dabbles in Fighting. Works well to help you find just the right balance of fighting and magic for your particular gish.

Also, I really don't care for racial restrictions on class options. It's fine to say that, in the Realms, Bladesinging is almost exclusively practiced by Elves and non-Elven Bladesingers are vanishingly rare, but putting it on the crunch side just feels excessive.

[Tanarii]

I don't like battlerager being incompatible with barbarian's unarmored defense (especially with a dwarf's con bonus)Unarmored Defense a worthless class feature until 20+ Con anyway. Very few Barbarians reach that before level 16 anyway, and most it won't have it until they get their capstone.

Edit: mechanically worthless that is. It's great if you want to play an Unarmored Barbarian for fluff reasons and are willing to take a one to two point AC hit for your fluff. Or don't want to spend gold.

[Spacehamster]

Find it tempting to play a 3 levels assassin 17 levels way of long death monk, stout halfling with custom background that gives cooking tools, he would be insane and always make delicious meals out of edible humanoids and other enemies too after the battle is won. :)

[hymer]

Unarmored Defense a worthless class feature until 20+ Con anyway. Very few Barbarians reach that before level 16 anyway, and most it won't have it until they get their capstone.

Edit: mechanically worthless that is. It's great if you want to play an Unarmored Barbarian for fluff reasons and are willing to take a one to two point AC hit for your fluff. Or don't want to spend gold.

One of my fellow PCs in one campaign is a dwarf barbarian with +3 con. He hasn't put on any armour yet, and for good reason. He can't afford the breastplate to beat it. And at level 8 at the latest, he intends to have +3 dex and +4 con, I believe.
Magical armour will eventually cause him to suit up, I expect, but so far he's doing better relying on Unarmored Defense.

[JellyPooga]

Well... the DBZ connection is just done because its fun, but the problem its that you have the DBZ image in your head, try to look at it as rays made of ki -i mean, that's what they are- (I don't understand how that would be more strange than an Elemental/Shadow Monk or a Wizard in general)

I guess it's because I see the Shadow and Elemental Monk as being a lot more subtle; manipulating your Ki to produce environmental or personal effects. The Sun Soul is about unleashing your Ki as a solely destructive force; it just doesn't quite gel for me. Ki is supposed to come from inner tranquility or spiritual balance or whatever and that doesn't quite mesh with what the Sun Soul does; "I'm so perfectly calm I CAN UNLEASH ULTIMATE DESTRUCTIVE POWAH!!!1!"...yeah, not so much. I don't begrudge other people liking it, it just doesn't fit my own vision of a Monk.

[Arc-Royal]

Monks are martial-arts guys, not zappy-death-ray guys. Sorry, you're getting way too much anime in my western fantasy with this one.
...you do realize that monks practicing martial arts is more of an Eastern thing than Western, right?

I'm with Maxilian on the DBZ monk thing in that I think it's really more of a tongue-in-cheek joke folks are making.

[Nu]

Minor things that seem often overlooked that I like:

The new paladin Oath gives access to the Spirit Guardians spell, which I've found to be a very good horde control spell, something that paladins don't do very well with their native toolset. A very welcome addition for when your DM throws 20 kobolds at you and a normal paladin is stuck slashing through them one or two at a time.

Nobody dodges in and out of melee like the swashbuckler, it's like a free mobile feat.

The Arcana domain cleric can uses the new Arcane cantrips, making for a fun melee build where you can take greenflame blade or the like.

I feel like most of the character options have value, mechanically or at least thematically. They can create interesting interactions if not the 100% most optimal ones.

[Gwendol]

The character options are all flavorful. Not sure about the PDK, it's a little too bland. I was hoping for a little more. The other ones are fine, but my top contenders would be the swashbuckler and the storm sorcerer.

[CyberThread]

To the many folks commenting on the monks. If you know the setting(this is a setting book folks), these two archtype of monks are actually pretty big mover and shakers within the setting. <-< saying long death should have been a warlock is sort of ignorant on that factor. It was nice having player options added that did not fall into the typical trap of Forgotten Realms things that are way overpowered or utterly pointless. Most of these additions are very playable, maybe not powerful but they are playable.

[DracoKnight]

The character options are all flavorful. Not sure about the PDK, it's a little too bland. I was hoping for a little more. The other ones are fine, but my top contenders would be the swashbuckler and the storm sorcerer.

It's also missing an 18th level feature.

[JellyPooga]

saying long death should have been a warlock is sort of ignorant on that factor.

I'm not saying that the Monks of the Long Death (the organisation) should have been Warlocks, I'm saying that I'd have preferred to have seen the features they get (Touch of Death, Hour of Reaping, Mastery of Death and Touch of the Long Death) incorporated into the Undying Warlock Patron features in some way and vice versa.

Not, perhaps, all of them and obviously not ported straight over (as Warlocks don't get Ki), but it seems to me that an organisation of Monks that studies death the way they're described, would get abilities that prolong their life and that of others and give resistances against the dead/undead (like the features of the Undying Warlock do) and that a Warlock with an undead patron would get life-stealing, scary and self-preserving features like the Long Death Monk gets. It seems a bit barse-ackwards to me.


...you do realize that monks practicing martial arts is more of an Eastern thing than Western, right?

Yes, I do. And that's fine; martial-arts type monks (i.e. all of them that use the Monk Class) come from the eastern-flavoured regions of (in this case) the Forgotten Realms and everything is groovy. It is, however, still a Western Fantasy on the whole. Introducing elements that are heavily inspired by anime compromises that general feel; no human (in my games) wields 7ft buster swords one-handed, women aren't universally attractive and scantily clad, elves don't have eyes the size of dinner plates and hairstlyes remain firmly in the non-spikey and non-neon coloured varieties. This is not an Eastern Fantasy, it's not Final Fantasy, it's not Dragonball-Z...this is D&D and the Forgotten Realms specifically and it has a certain feel. The Sun Soul Monk is a square peg in the round hole of the setting for me.

[MeeposFire]

I dunno, I think it works nicely: the Eldritch Knight is a Fighter who dabbles in Wizardry and the Bladesinger is a Wizard who dabbles in Fighting. Works well to help you find just the right balance of fighting and magic for your particular gish.

Also, I really don't care for racial restrictions on class options. It's fine to say that, in the Realms, Bladesinging is almost exclusively practiced by Elves and non-Elven Bladesingers are vanishingly rare, but putting it on the crunch side just feels excessive.

Actually I think it does say that it is elf only in the realms but it may not be in other settings.

[Talyn]

It's also missing an 18th level feature.

That's been noted to be a typo, their 18th level ability was mis-labeled as a 17th level ability.

[The Shadowdove]

Snip

I agree with a lot of this.

Except I really enjoy the addition of the Long death monks. They've been one of my favorite orders for a long time now.

Actually monks of long death have been around a while and fit thematically great as a forgotten realms archetype.

Theres a main villain in the undead series, which takes place in thay, who is an amazing representative for them.


Edit: Malark Springhill (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Malark_Springhill)

[silveralen]

The monk, rogue, and sorcerer options look good. The others went from kinda iffy to outright worse versions of existing options (hi there purple dragon knight).