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The Extinguisher
2007-06-05, 07:20 PM
Is it possible, in a game?

I'm currently playing one in a pure, text based RP (ie. no stats or anything) but to be fare, that's in a completly original and created world.

I was thinking of transfering it over to an D&D campaign, but I have no clue if it's actually possible.

Does anyone know if it would be?

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-05, 07:24 PM
Very, very, very highly unlikely. How would the Mind Flayer be able to survive AND keep his Paladin powers? Because, you know, it feeds off the minds of other beings, then making them its slaves. Not really Paladin material. Maybe taking VoP could fix that, but if you're starting at 1st level, then...save the Paladin levels until your VoP gets high enough to sustain you on something other than brains. Or just have the DM give you a ring of sustenance or something similar/whatever it's called.

SurlySeraph
2007-06-05, 07:25 PM
Well, it would have to spend its entirely life without anyone realizing it was Lawful Good despite the fact that everyone it ever meets is an extraordinarily powerful psychic. And it would have to escape its city, and possibly escape from the Underdark or even from the plane it lives on, without being killed by its fellows. And then it would have to meet up with a cleric of a Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good deity to become a Paladin. Also, the cleric would have to not kill it on sight just for being an illithid. It's theoretically possible, I think, but the probability is ridiculously low.

The Extinguisher
2007-06-05, 07:26 PM
Well, my character actually ate the brains of the evil that he smited.

I have the whole history worked out on the character. That's not a problem.

SurlySeraph
2007-06-05, 07:33 PM
Well, since Drizzt happened even though drow were listed as "always evil," if you've got your justification worked out then go for it.

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-05, 07:33 PM
Well then, enjoy your almost-redundant character.

toysailor
2007-06-05, 07:38 PM
Why is eating brains automatically considered an evil act anyway? Sentience does not count in the survival of the fittest - you are built biologically to eat brains and will die otherwise, nothing good or evil about that. Sentience does not count morally, since non-sentient creatures still have the potential to suffer (i.e. anything which has a central nervous system can feel pain).

Unless, of course, you take macrebre joy in torturing your food by eating them alive (Illithid pally can mindblast his prey to unconsciousness or death first), breed them in inhumane living conditions (Illithid pally can keep free-range goblins for food, or simply hunt the good 'ol fashioned way) and many other things humans in contemporary societies actually do which makes me wonder why aren't humans classified as evil for eating brutally murdered cows or chickens.

de-trick
2007-06-05, 07:40 PM
in exalted deeds under redemed villions they have a piture of a mind flayer so yah also i forgot the game mechanics but the exalted something or other in exalted deeds can make any thing good once had a LG red dragon

Yuki Akuma
2007-06-05, 07:45 PM
Illithids do not need to eat sapient brains. They just prefer the taste. A good Illithid would probably stick to cattle. A Lawful Good Illithid would probably volunteer to slaughter cattle instead of stealing.

I don't see why an Illithid paladin would be impossible. He'd just need to stay in rural areas, or wear a ring of sustanence constantly.

The reason Illithids eat brains is that they lack the ability to produce certain substances found in brains; they're universal, though. Any brain will do.

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-05, 08:02 PM
in exalted deeds under redemed villions they have a piture of a mind flayer so yah also i forgot the game mechanics but the exalted something or other in exalted deeds can make any thing good once had a LG red dragon

'Twas a spell, 5th level if I'm correct. Sanctify the Wicked.

Valdyr
2007-06-05, 08:04 PM
There are probably rules out there for it, but really...

haven't we been over this ground with Drizzt and Angel (from Buffy) ?

Jasdoif
2007-06-05, 08:12 PM
You most certainly can make an Illithid paladin. The only things you'll need are a suitable backstory to explain the oddity (which you said you already have), and some way to negate the endless need to consume brains.

Others have already covered ways to handle that last one, but here's another: If you're using the XPH Illithid, simply make sustenance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sustenance.htm) one of its known powers. Now, as long as you can get some rest, you'll never need to eat.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-06-05, 08:56 PM
in exalted deeds under redemed villions they have a piture of a mind flayer so yah also i forgot the game mechanics but the exalted something or other in exalted deeds can make any thing good once had a LG red dragon

Ghnk!
Spelling! Grammar! Please, for the sake of my eyes!
On topic, however, have you considered a Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter (UA variants)? They, particularly Tyranny, would mesh better with Illithid history. Lords of Madness have additional rules for Illithids, as well as grafts in the Fiend Folio. Both are worth a look.

The Extinguisher
2007-06-05, 09:00 PM
I haven't, because I like doing odd stuff.

You're talking to the guy who played a succubus character that was devoted to and completly in love with another character to the point where she refused to use her energy draining powers because it requires kissing.

I'm not a fan of the obvious character choices.

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-05, 09:39 PM
I haven't, because I like doing odd stuff.

You're talking to the guy who played a succubus character that was devoted to and completly in love with another character to the point where she refused to use her energy draining powers because it requires kissing.

I'm not a fan of the obvious character choices.

Then again...

If you use the exact opposite of every single cliche, that replaces the cliche.

See also:All those CG scimitar-wielding Drow out there.

Just throw in something expected once in a while...or unexpected-but-not-opposite.

E.g:Instead of an LG Illithid Paladin...

A CN Illithid of any class. Now THERE'S something new. If you want to be unexpected, don't confine yourself to opposites.

The Extinguisher
2007-06-05, 10:07 PM
I don't always use opposites.

It's just this time, the opposite works with what I want.

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-05, 11:23 PM
I don't always use opposites.

It's just this time, the opposite works with what I want.

Alrighty then.

*whistles*

What now? >_>

Magistrate
2007-06-06, 12:04 AM
At least it's not another Kobold.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-06-06, 01:32 AM
There's no real reason why not, except that the concept is quite similar to Drizzt Do'Urden, but using a frankly cooler race. Be ready to have dice chucked at you as your fellow players realize that connection. Just remember, mind flayers tend to operate in a semi-hive-mind mentality, so it would be quite difficult to escape his original society, but I'm sure you could work that out in backstory.

To avoid brain-eating, nonsapient brains are probably fine, and a Ring of Sustenance is certainly useful.

Behold_the_Void
2007-06-06, 02:00 AM
The biggest problem you'll run into since you already have the backstory is an atrocious level adjustment. If you're group's fine with it, I say go for it. No reason to restrict your roleplay or character because it might have some passing resemblance to the concept behind Drizzt.

Rincewind
2007-06-06, 02:17 AM
Is it possible, in a game?

I'm currently playing one in a pure, text based RP (ie. no stats or anything) but to be fare, that's in a completly original and created world.

I was thinking of transfering it over to an D&D campaign, but I have no clue if it's actually possible.

Does anyone know if it would be?

It can happen, but the illithid would be a paladin for his kind... A paladin of mind control and slavery, imagine that. That'd be even scarier than the Blackguard.

The Mind Flayer Paladin can roam the underdark, in a quest of slavery, and fighting valiantly against people trying to avoid their dirty schemes...

Hmm... But an Illithid mind lacks that much personality to differ from his kin.

Maybe the follower of a destroyed center brain...

lord_khaine
2007-06-06, 03:38 AM
actualy its not possible to have a mindflayer paladin, at least if you go by the material found in lords of madness, wich says they are even less able to be good than most deamons/devils.

it might be that some hack put a LG mindflayer in BOED, but in this case im sticking to LoM as the authorithy on mindflayers.

Reinboom
2007-06-06, 04:24 AM
actualy its not possible to have a mindflayer paladin, at least if you go by the material found in lords of madness, wich says they are even less able to be good than most deamons/devils.

it might be that some hack put a LG mindflayer in BOED, but in this case im sticking to LoM as the authorithy on mindflayers.

There are almost always exception to the rule or authority, and this is a common theme for WotC products. Also, less able to be good is still not completely unable to be good.

The Mindflayer in BoED is a monk with Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Obedience even. She still has her normal mindflayer attacks also. Her story is apparently one where she was once evil, then enslaved for years, then later freed and shown mercy - which turned her. Her possessions do not include anything that would fill in her special feeding issue (no ring of sustenance).

Reading through the Lords of Madness, it seams the mindflayers feed of various hormones, enzymes, and psychic energy from brains to sustain themselves. For further information on this, read LoM. The hormones and enzymes can come from organs and nowhere does it say that all of these have to be humanoid. Given the nature that the brain provides all of this, it would be an easy bet to suggest that an illithid could indeed make a deal with a local slaughterhouse to take pig or cow brains that would otherwise be thrown out.

The biggest issue is escaping the core of the illithid society, the elder brain. Why would this character abandon its core faith (to become one with the consciousness of the elder brain)? The LoM actually cues in a way this could occur, since it says that illithids believe they retain their consciousness when they join with the elder brain, but that this is a false belief and is a secret guarded by the elder brains that they in fact only extract from the brains.

I believe, thusly, it's possible, just not plausible.

Mr the Geoff
2007-06-06, 04:25 AM
Well, it would have to spend its entirely life without anyone realizing it was Lawful Good despite the fact that everyone it ever meets is an extraordinarily powerful psychic. And it would have to escape its city, and possibly escape from the Underdark or even from the plane it lives on, without being killed by its fellows. And then it would have to meet up with a cleric of a Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good deity to become a Paladin. Also, the cleric would have to not kill it on sight just for being an illithid. It's theoretically possible, I think, but the probability is ridiculously low.

So about as possible as a good drow surviving to adulthood and escaping the underdark then meeting up with a good aligned ranger and not being killed on sight .

Tormsskull
2007-06-06, 05:43 AM
There are almost always exception to the rule or authority, and this is a common theme for WotC products.

Yup. Sell the first book that tells you all of the general rules, then sell you 50,000 books with specific exceptions. Which of course, fantatic players use to justify the "Any concept is perfectly fine" mentality.

toysailor
2007-06-06, 05:59 AM
This is the sort of mentality that puts me off pen-and-paper RPGs. Who cares about the "official" rules as long as its fun for the group?

And for the naysayers who say that illithid pallys would end up as drizzt clones, drizzt himself is a clone of the age-old story of heroic individuals rising above the circumstances they are born into. As long as the illithid player refrains from doing all that angsty "i'm an outcast everywhere" thing, it shouldnt be too difficult to be something completely different from that particular dark elf we all know so well.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-06, 06:33 AM
I think Mindflayers have a +7 ECL and 8 HD... so you're looking at +15 levels before you get your first class level.

Tyger
2007-06-06, 07:04 AM
This is the sort of mentality that puts me off pen-and-paper RPGs. Who cares about the "official" rules as long as its fun for the group?

And for the naysayers who say that illithid pallys would end up as drizzt clones, drizzt himself is a clone of the age-old story of heroic individuals rising above the circumstances they are born into. As long as the illithid player refrains from doing all that angsty "i'm an outcast everywhere" thing, it shouldnt be too difficult to be something completely different from that particular dark elf we all know so well.

Exactly. Not everyone who rebels against their nature and upbringing is a Drizzt clone. Its a simple and fairly common literary convention. That would be like saying that every barbarian warrior is a Conan clone, or that every stong hero is a Heracles clone... they are just very common archtypes.

The only impediment that I see here is the LA and HD... those are nasty.

Jayabalard
2007-06-06, 07:14 AM
actualy its not possible to have a mindflayer paladin, at least if you go by the material found in lords of madness, wich says they are even less able to be good than most deamons/devils."less able" is not the same thing as "not able" ... so replace "not possible" with "not very likely" or even "extremely unlikely"

shadowmage
2007-06-06, 07:23 AM
There are also the variant Paladins from Dragon and I forget the other book. The ones from Dragon has a Paladin for every Alignment combo. If you check out the Class PDF on Crystalkeep they have the basics of the classes from both books.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-06, 07:43 AM
"less able" is not the same thing as "not able" ... so replace "not possible" with "not very likely" or even "extremely unlikely"

And then replace "extremely unlikely" with "the DM will throw a sack of dice at you, tear up your character sheet, and make you go out and make you pay for the pizza."

Yuki Akuma
2007-06-06, 07:56 AM
And then replace "extremely unlikely" with "the DM will throw a sack of dice at you, tear up your character sheet, and make you go out and make you pay for the pizza."

I don't think many people would want to play with such a DM.

Jayabalard
2007-06-06, 08:12 AM
And then replace "extremely unlikely" with "the DM will throw a sack of dice at you, tear up your character sheet, and make you go out and make you pay for the pizza."You left out the "if I were your DM" part, because your statement isn't universally true without it. so, change it to "if I were your DM, I'd throw a sack of dice at you, tear up your character sheet, and make you go out and make you pay for the pizza."

Certainly, noone expects you to necessarily approve of his character concept, but noone was really asking for your approval, or even if people think a DM will approve the concept, were they? It's not like he's creating a new character, he's moving an existing character in an existing campaign into D&D; so the issue of approval is moot, since the GM has already approved it.

Wolf_Shade
2007-06-06, 08:16 AM
There are probably rules out there for it, but really...

haven't we been over this ground with Drizzt and Angel (from Buffy) ?

Drizzt wasn't the first "natural evil turned good", Angel sure as hell wasn't. They're both examples of a classic character type in literature. The argument of "You're so original you're making another Drizzt" is rather asinine. Let the guy play. It's apparently not that "overdone" as many people are claiming it impossible, and no one has said "Oh yeah, there was an Ilithid paladin in book X".

Knight_Of_Twilight
2007-06-06, 11:13 AM
I kinda like the Evil thing gone good, so really, I doubt I'd have issues. You would have to have a darn good backstory, though.

That being said, I love Mind-flayers as villians. Star-Spawn on a diet plan, thats what they be.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-06-06, 11:25 AM
One possible explanation would be similar to the Illithid in <groan> NWN.

Mind Flayers are incredibly intelligent and logical. Say it was in their interest to do good deeds (some vast force from Celestia is going on a beholder-killing spree (beholder paladin ... interesting idea), and guess what route they're taking back?), they would certainly do them. They haven't got any affiliation to any sort of cosmic evil, so they're in it for themselves.

Your Paladin -> Illithid scholar who, after much thought, has realised that, throughout history, the bad guys generally lose in the end, decides, therefore, to emulate Good characters, in an effort to stay alive.

Dragonmuncher
2007-06-06, 11:41 AM
I like Scribe's "logical" idea. Some other ideas for our soon-to-be paladin (let's call him Ian the Illithid):

1. Illithid colony, or perhaps just Ian, worships a Dark God of Destruction and Chaos. Ian somehow fails the God, and knows that if he doesn't figure something out he's going to be suffering in the endless pits of the Abyss for eternity. After eating a theologian's brain, or perhaps just talking to him, he realizes that those who worship Good Gods don't go to the Abyss. He works as hard as he can to become Good, perhaps with Vow feats, or magic.

2. Ian discovers the awful secret of the elder brains. Disillusioned by all illithid society, he runs off and does everything illithids aren't supposed to do. Learns some hand-to-hand combat or arcane magic, drinks beer, gets some hookers, and so on. Eventually, he hits the bottom of the barrel, and turns to these divine Good Gods the surfacers seem to love so much. Has a divine experience, becomes a paladin.

3. Ian is a newly-made Illithid. However, while he was being turned into an Illithid, he was kidnapped by the gith. The Gith experimented on him psionically as he was transforming, attempting to reverse the process. They failed, but as a side effect, Ian's previous memories came through mostly intact. Now, Ian is nearly unique in the multiverse- an Illithid on the outside, and mostly human on the inside. He has all of his Illithid powers, but is slightly mad from conflicting instincts. He turns to (Insert Deity Here) for aid.

Person_Man
2007-06-06, 11:45 AM
I don't own it, but there are a series of Illithid feats in the Complete Psionic that allow you to become a Mind Flayer. I think there's also some sort of prestige class built around it, that grants you bonus Illithid feats.

Obviously, it's based around psionics, but I think you could pull it off as a high level Paladin from a psionic race. Though a better idea would be a religious Psychic Warrior with a self imposed Paladin code (remember, class does not equal fluff or occupation or title, its just crunch). Once you've burned a couple of useless feats on Illithad Heritage, you can take the Illithid Grapple feats. Each one (up to four) will give you a tentacle attack and the Improved Grapple ability. Natural attacks count for Power Attack/Leap Attack and (like most natural attacks) can be used in addition to your normal attack routine as part of a full attack. It's a very feat hungry build (you should ask your DM if you can take flaws) but its certainly do-able, and it wouldn't be that bad if done correctly.

Kaerou
2007-06-06, 01:13 PM
OP: Look into the Planescape campaign setting. An Illithid Paladin is pretty possible there. In fact its not in the deep end of oddness in that setting by a long shot. If i remember correctly, theres Lawful Good Demons in Sigil and evil Celestials.. it throws away most of the established rules and pulls it off very well.

lord_khaine
2007-06-06, 01:29 PM
the only possible way i could see for a good illithid, is the one where the illithid had been subject to psionic experiments by the Gith.

in LoM, they explain how mindflayers simply dont have the standart array of human emotions, missing among other things empathy or the ability to experience happiness.

Rincewind
2007-06-06, 01:53 PM
Look my good, my dear people...

Illithid minds don't work regularly. Hell, they look humanoid, but that's it.

Illithid race might have a devoted fighter like a Paladin; but it cannot, never, EVER be a "good guy" and "defender of the good". Not in common sense.

Mind Flayers have a different concept of good and evil, and they lack induhviduality.

My DM lore gives me just one kind of Illithid Paladin. Quoting myself here:


10lvl Telepath/10lvl Psionic Fighter.
Illithids lack physical strength, but they are usually powerful telepaths and shapers. But this one paladin like one CAN be devoted to his elder brain, or devoted to an even higher power, becoming the non-forgiving defender of slavery, physical and emotional torture, manipulation and hatred... (Illithid's enjoy strong emotion, and I mean they enjoy the taste)

Or you can always go R. A. Salvatore; make a rainbow child Illithid, throw in some family relations, a elf x illithid love (oh the tentacles) and a bad guy... Well, a pixie perhaps. But even the idea of this makes me sick. Ask Sir Burlew, he and his lovely d&D dudes have suffered a lot because of R.A. Salvatore and his beloved style. (Basic Manga comic style, but worse)

Yuki Akuma
2007-06-06, 01:59 PM
I don't see why people keep saying Illithids have no individuality. They're not some hive mind like Formians are! Otherwise they would, you know, have the Hive Mind special quality...

Illithids are all individuals. Some Illithids enjoy spending all of their time in libraries dusting up on their Forbidden Lore. Others might spend all of their time honing their psionic abilities. One or two might even be priests.

Just because a normal, average Illithid is evil does not mean all Illithid individuals are evil. If a demon can be Good (and they can), surely an Illithid can, too. They'd just be really, really messed up in the head.

Rincewind
2007-06-06, 02:05 PM
I don't see why people keep saying Illithids have no individuality. They're not some hive mind like Formians are! Otherwise they would, you know, have the Hive Mind special quality...

They are not parts of a hive mind, but they LACK individuality... That's the impression I got after reading Lords of Madness.

Reinboom
2007-06-06, 03:01 PM
The Lords of Madness also says that the elder brain keeps the closely guarded secret that the illithids do not retain their own consciousness when they are consumed into the elder brain. If the illithids lacked individuality in the sense that they would not divert from their society for it, then why would this need to be kept secret?
That aside, illithids can also learn other languages like, say, common. This means their minds function in at least a specific enough way to be able to understand how to commune with the lesser minded folk. Taking what is already established that they are not part of the elder brain directly, it generally takes a certain sense of individuality to be able to communicate differently than what every other illithid says.
This aside that illithids are indeed separate entities each, and now to look at driving force. They are lack of positive emotion, as the Lords of Madness describe, however they are a force of extremely high logic. For this, I would say I could follow along with what Illiterate Scribe has mentioned and give them a logical based motif. Also, they do have some emotions, though all negative, one could also reason that it would be logical to avoid emotions one does not enjoy. Given individuality, emotions can be triggered each based on different events per illithid. If one illithid found that certain vile deeds where a perpetuating cause of its negative emotions, it would be reasonable for this illithid to avoid these negative emotions.
Finally, illithids do not run purely on instinct either, they have mind functionality, their intelligence is greater than 3 after all. Much greater.

Rincewind
2007-06-06, 03:42 PM
The Lords of Madness also says that the elder brain keeps the closely guarded secret that the illithids do not retain their own consciousness when they are consumed into the elder brain. If the illithids lacked individuality in the sense that they would not divert from their society for it, then why would this need to be kept secret?
That aside, illithids can also learn other languages like, say, common. This means their minds function in at least a specific enough way to be able to understand how to commune with the lesser minded folk. Taking what is already established that they are not part of the elder brain directly, it generally takes a certain sense of individuality to be able to communicate differently than what every other illithid says.
This aside that illithids are indeed separate entities each, and now to look at driving force. They are lack of positive emotion, as the Lords of Madness describe, however they are a force of extremely high logic. For this, I would say I could follow along with what Illiterate Scribe has mentioned and give them a logical based motif. Also, they do have some emotions, though all negative, one could also reason that it would be logical to avoid emotions one does not enjoy. Given individuality, emotions can be triggered each based on different events per illithid. If one illithid found that certain vile deeds where a perpetuating cause of its negative emotions, it would be reasonable for this illithid to avoid these negative emotions.
Finally, illithids do not run purely on instinct either, they have mind functionality, their intelligence is greater than 3 after all. Much greater.

eh... \(_o)/
I don't see the point of arguing. We all have our share of geek lore, but clashing them would create a portal of dorkness, so let's just say, "Eh, every DMs campaign for herself" and "Afterall this thread's point was to get as many views as possible, it's a freely changeable universe for all of us"...

So that we can enjoy our night and drink our milk in peace.

:sigh:

Nerd-o-rama
2007-06-06, 06:06 PM
Or you can always go R. A. Salvatore; make a rainbow child Illithid, throw in some family relations, a elf x illithid love (oh the tentacles) and a bad guy... Well, a pixie perhaps. But even the idea of this makes me sick.
Make the Illithid apathetically altruistic instead of a Paladin, and that actually sounds like a great character from an almost famous PbP D&D game by the name of Sigil Prep. Especially the elf x illithid love. And the pixie is more of a recurring angry short guy joke than a villain.

Dragonmuncher
2007-06-06, 06:11 PM
Ian! His name is Ian!

Nerd-o-rama
2007-06-06, 06:16 PM
Hm? I was talking about Xizlqk.

Dragonmuncher
2007-06-06, 06:30 PM
Sorry- I meant the hypothetical Illithid paladin whose backstory we're debating. I said we should call him Ian. Ian the Illithid.



...

Atanuero
2007-06-06, 08:31 PM
Don't know if this was already suggested, but PHB2 has several Paladin variants that could make more sense.

Alternatively, something to consider would be a POLYMORPHED mind flayer, who is still at heart a mind flayer but no longer, you know, feeds on minds.

Lobsopdoy
2007-06-09, 06:03 PM
I say go for it, but keep in mind that the Illithid will probably still be extremely alien. He won't be a popular guy, seeing as empathy is still not their strong suit.

I'd say it'd be interesting if it was something like someone with high-functioning autism on steroids. Maybe the Illithid doesn't do the stuff right. He's TRYING to be good, but he tends to get it wrong somehow. Maybe by killing a dog that's bothering someone without considering any alternatives, for example.

Or hell, another idea could be an Illithid that enjoys the feel of positive emotions, so he goes out of his way to do nice stuff because he enjoys the taste of other people feeling good.

I usually thought that the "no positive emotions" thing was more a product of the culture then an actual biological feature, that just wouldn't make sense.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-09, 06:26 PM
Well, it would have to spend its entirely life without anyone realizing it was Lawful Good despite the fact that everyone it ever meets is an extraordinarily powerful psychic..

I was unaware that alignment was something you were born with.

EvilElitest
2007-06-09, 08:13 PM
Well, since Drizzt happened even though drow were listed as "always evil," if you've got your justification worked out then go for it.

Drow were never listed as always evil, it was always

Usally NE
from,
EE

SurlySeraph
2007-06-10, 12:52 AM
I was unaware that alignment was something you were born with.

Well, not necessarily born with, but doubtlessly developed within about a month of realizing that it was a member of a species dedicated to domination of the multiverse and that everyone around it was a member of that alignment.


Drow were never listed as always evil, it was always

Usally NE
from,
EE

I stand corrected.

Fhaolan
2007-06-10, 02:11 AM
This is an odd situation. I seem to agree with everyone simultaneously, despite their apparantly opposing viewpoints.

I don't see anything in the mechanics to prevent a Mind Flayer Paladin, beyond the massive LA making it very difficult to play.

There's a lot of conflicting fluff from various sourcebooks, but even if everything WotC ever published was somehow 'perfect' and can't be contradicted, anything written in a book can be gotten around with sufficient imagination.

However, Mind Flayers are meant to be alien, Lovecraftian-style creatures that don't in any way think like a human. They are not just humans with rubber tentacles instead of a mustache, they are true alien creatures. While a Mind Flayer Paladin would be Lawful Good, by definition, they are going to do things in a completely different manner than a human Paladin, for unfathomable reasons.

The standard example: The paladin who must choose between saving the life of a child, which would release an unstopable evil into the world, or allowing the child to die. A human paladin might kill the child as the lesser of two evils, another human paladin might save the child, and then sacrifice his own life in a futile attempt to stop the evil. The Mind Flayer Paladin walks into the middle of the ritual and lights itself on fire. The ritual stops because everyone is completely confused and are unable to figure out why this flaming Mind Flayer is running through their evil temple. This gives the Mind Flayer's compatriots time to defeat the evil priests, which is exactly what the Paladin had planned. Doesn't really make sense, does it? But we're human, so what's nonsensical to us will make perfect sense to a Mind Flayer. :smallcool:

Hectonkhyres
2007-06-10, 04:02 AM
1) Forget about an illithid being tinkered with by the Gith... either of the clades. Both are so fanatically driven to drive the illithids to extinction that they would make Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party look positively cute and cuddly. The only difference between the Gith-Zerai and the Gith-Yanki is that the former will make the killing quick while the latter will have you screaming for days. If you have tentacles coming out of your face and they know about you, they will send their best and brightest to rip you to pieces... though the Zerai might even feel remorse afterwards.

2) Don't worry about the whole level disparity thing. You can start your illithid off as an immature specimen or injured and recovering. Remove some of the more powerful traits inherent to the species and have the player be able to buy them back by forsaking level advancement at a time of his choosing. You can think of it as his growing up or regaining full strength.

3) If someone is doing what they honestly think is right for truely nonselfish purposes, actually believing that they are working towards the betterment of the universe as a whole, according to a set of laws... they would be lawful good in my book. There is no reason an illithid can't grow up believing that the universe is in chaos and would do better under the watchful gaze of the illithid elder brains.

4) If you worship elder brains, I might look into cooking up a homebrew paladin class based on psionics.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-06-10, 04:18 AM
Fhaolan: see, my favorite Illithid character (a fellow PC I mentioned above) basically is a human with tentacles instead of a mustache, and a notable lack of emotions beyond sarcasm. But, it's a humorous campaign. In a more grounded D&D game, you've got very much of a point. Illithids simply don't think in any way remotely resembling the way humanoids do.

Dhavaer
2007-06-10, 04:41 AM
Sorry- I meant the hypothetical Illithid paladin whose backstory we're debating. I said we should call him Ian. Ian the Illithid.

No, no, no. Ted.
Ted the Mind Flayer.
:smallamused: