Evade a fireball while in a heavily obscured area with no darkvision?

[TrueAzrael]

Ok i can't find a right answer to that question by RAW, so I decided to join here and ask for your opinion. Would have postet it at the RAW thread but I thought I would get some house rules as answer to this question. So I thought it wouldn't be the right thread.

Rules as i have written them:
1.) If you're in a heavily obscured area with no darkvision you should suffer from blinded condition.
2.) The condition description say automatically fails saves which need sight.
3.) Fireball says: "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to...

The question:
Given the rules will you automatically get hit by the fireball or does the bright streak negate the heavily obscured area and you can take you Dex save?
I thought of maybe giving the character disadvantage or a fixed malus to his save, because he may be able to notice the fireball but not as soon as someone with darkvision who's already noticing the wizard pointing his finger before the streak comes out.

To clarify it: Fireball could be switched with any dex save spell which should light up the area.

Answered it my self... Overlooked that blind only talks about ability checks...

Close this or delete it as is doesnt mather, sorry. -.-

[hymer]

The condition description say automatically fails saves which need sight.

Actually, it says 'automatically fails any ability check'. Saves aren't ability checks.
It's supposed to make you fail Perception checks to notice the red stains on he wall, say.

Edit: Yeah, that's... Yeah. :smallredface:

[Anderlith]

If you can see the fireball you can dodge it. The fireball is self illuminating it doesn't matter if your surroundings are dark.

[Ralanr]

If you can see the fireball you can dodge it. The fireball is self illuminating it doesn't matter if your surroundings are dark.

+1

Rarely is there a stealthy fireball.

[Maxilian]

+1

Rarely is there a stealthy fireball.

Well if they have no eyes, they will no see it comming (most creatures have eyes but that's easy to solve, and if they have a really good hearing, THAT CAN BE SOLVED TO!, GLADIS LOVE TO SOLVE THIS KIND OF THINGS!)

This is my lovely wife, Gladys (said the Barbarian)

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1897037&d=1390572792

[djreynolds]

Ok i can't find a right answer to that question by RAW, so I decided to join here and ask for your opinion. Would have postet it at the RAW thread but I thought I would get some house rules as answer to this question. So I thought it wouldn't be the right thread.

Rules as i have written them:
1.) If you're in a heavily obscured area with no darkvision you should suffer from blinded condition.
2.) The condition description say automatically fails saves which need sight.
3.) Fireball says: "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to...

The question:
Given the rules will you automatically get hit by the fireball or does the bright streak negate the heavily obscured area and you can take you Dex save?
I thought of maybe giving the character disadvantage or a fixed malus to his save, because he may be able to notice the fireball but not as soon as someone with darkvision who's already noticing the wizard pointing his finger before the streak comes out.

To clarify it: Fireball could be switched with any dex save spell which should light up the area.

Answered it my self... Overlooked that blind only talks about ability checks...

Close this or delete it as is doesnt mather, sorry. -.-

Well that's just weird though, your ability checks suffer but your saves, based on your ability scores do not.

I was once told, "think it, do it." It's a medical thing, but if you think someone has a broken leg, perhaps splint it and x-ray it. I ain't gonna eat your lunch for that, but if you did nothing.

If you think, say, a globe of darkness is dropped on the party, unless supremely disciplined, your rogue may be quiet and trying to listen but the fighter growling and complaining, the wizard is trying to cast a spell, the cleric is praying. It could be chaotic, perhaps you all suffer a penalty to the save because its noisy, now you cannot see or hear someone of to the side chanting.

And vice-versa, if your party is well versed in drow tactics and disciplined, maybe they suffer nothing. Maybe the sorcerer is casting protection from energy, or the wizard is casting bless, etc. Some classes have to see the fireball for dexterity save purposes, like a barbarian.

I know what the book says, but as DM you are at liberty to alter things. If cannot use perception in the dark, how can you perceive anything.

[Alerad]

As somebody already pointed out, a Fireball is a blazing ball/streak of fire, so you can see it coming. You can do your save with no penalty.

There is no rule about Dex saves if you're blinded (I think), but I suppose you can give them disadvantage, like the rules for unseen attackers (provided your attacker can actually see).

Better example will be black dragon's acid breath weapon. It's still Dex save, but it's not self-illuminating so you can't see it coming.

[Edenbeast]

Eventhough it may not be clear from the rules, you should use common sense here. For example, you're walking on a road during nighttime when you see the headlights of an approaching car, would you be denied from or get any disadvantage on dodging the car?

[Cybren]

Eventhough it may not be clear from the rules, you should use common sense here. For example, you're walking on a road during nighttime when you see the headlights of an approaching car, would you be denied from or get any disadvantage on dodging the car?

That depends, is the car making a melee attack against you, or treated as a hazard requiring a savings throw? Do you know the car is trying to hit you?

[djreynolds]

Eventhough it may not be clear from the rules, you should use common sense here. For example, you're walking on a road during nighttime when you see the headlights of an approaching car, would you be denied from or get any disadvantage on dodging the car?

Perfect example.

Anything that affect any ability should also effect the save attached to it, I'm not saying a rogue would lose proficiency in a dex save or evasion, but something. Its just logical. If he sees the flash of the fireball, okay win he can save normal.

[Degwerks]

This thread had me thinking of my warlock hiding in a Darkness spell. I've got devils sight and if I used any of my spells on an enemy in my Darkness, would they be allowed a dex save against any of my spells that give that option? At the most I can reason if you can't see the threat you might be disadvantaged, but if you could hear and feel the heat/flames from hellish rebuke maybe you dodge...

[Sitri]

OP was done with this before anyone got to it for RAW.

For in practice, I don't see the streak of light really mattering at all for me for the purpose of deciding if disadvantage or something similar should come into play.

A Lightning bolt creates a streak of light, not sure if the book uses those words, but I wouldn't imagine it is the moving light being what people are reacting to and trying to dodge. I don't think of a fireball as moving in any meaningful way slower than a lightning bolt.