Best energy types for specialized blasters

[Jowgen]

Disclaimer: Yes, blasting is sub-optimal unless you do some mailman-type things.

I am thinking of throwing together a blaster-type caster who specializes in a particular type of energy damage. All 3.0-3.5 1st party material (inc Dragon mag) is on the table, cheese tolerance minimal-moderate.

What I'm interested in is what type of energy damage magic gets the most support. Spells available, feats and class-features to improve, the whole shabang.

Currently, it strikes me like Fire and Cold have a distinct advantage due to Searing Fire and Piercing Cold. Sonic has few resistances to come against, but is most vulnerable to silence effects. Force, while not strictly speaking an energy type, obviously has its own great advantages, but there are few high damage spells and even fewer damage boosters to go around. But, all this is just what I gathered in passing.

So yeah, what energy type does the playground think is best and why?

[Anthrowhale]

Piercing Immunities (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454486-Piercing-Immunities) is relevant.

It depends a bit on the optimization level of your opponents. For monsters as written the simplest thing is Force-charged energy, the sorcerer 5 ACF in Planar Handbook.

For more difficult opponents ... well some sense of how difficult might guide a better answer. There are many tricks.

[ArqArturo]

Force is the optimal one, since there is not Force resistance (that I know), so the Argent Savant is pretty cool with this (once you reach Argent Savant levels). However, I have yet to find a feat that lets me turn Fireball into Forceball.

Acid, while does have some resistance/immunities, is pretty rare. Same with sonic and Electricity.

[Âmesang]

Force dragons are immune to force, but they're the only ones I'm aware of with such an immunity. :smalltongue:

[ArqArturo]

Force dragons are immune to force, but they're the only ones I'm aware of with such an immunity. :smalltongue:

"Wait... So this whole campaign revolves around a Great Wyrm Force Dragon overlord, and it's Half-Force dragon minions".

"Don't forget the Steel Dragon cohort of the overlord, plus the Half-Tarrasque creatures".

[Âmesang]

So I'm half-asleep right now and just pictured Mario going up against invisible, Force-versions of King Koopa and the Koopa Troopas with a Mecha-Bowser and giant, half-tarrasque Spinies.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Best blasting type is Searing Spell fire spells. It is a +1 metamagic but literally nothing can stop the damage. Fire subtype reduces it, but that is it. Arcane Thesis a couple of your favorite fire spells and go to town (Searing Scorching Ray is my personal fave, but Searing Orb of Fire is a classic.)

Force follows this for being extremely rarely resisted, but in turn in a rare type.

[ben-zayb]

Barring other precautions, blanket immunities will stop Force/Sound/Acid damage, no ifs or butts, while Piercing Cold still doesn't affect Cold-subtyped creatures. So from that I'd say Fire damage already wins out, at least at mid-high levels of optimization where Forceward is a thing and Transdimensional Spell is as common as the presence of Incorporeal/Ethereal in the campaign.



Piercing Immunities (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454486-Piercing-Immunities) is relevant.You might want to change your example, since it's incorrect: undead are immune to Trollbane (Poison), so it won't work unless the Atropal is within an area of Poisoner's Breath.
EDIT: Undead are immune to Poisoner's Breath since it involves Fort saves and doesn't affect objects.

[ArqArturo]

So I'm half-asleep right now and just pictured Mario going up against invisible, Force-versions of King Koopa and the Koopa Troopas with a Mecha-Bowser and giant, half-tarrasque Spinies.

Best. D&D. Session. EVER

[Anthrowhale]

EDIT: Undead are immune to Poisoner's Breath since it involves Fort saves and doesn't affect objects.

There is no Fort save for Poisoner's Breath and there is no fort save for Trollbane, hence you can poison an undead.

W.r.t. the original post, I think this combo is deeply piercing. I'm under no illusion that this is 'low cheese', but choose what you want.

Summon Sertrous and keep as a pet for Poisoner's Breath to bypass poison immunity
Use Circle Magic to Heighten to level 20, bypassing all spell level immunities
Use Reserves of Strength to add 3 damage dice.
Use Planar Bubble to bypass all planar trait immunities
Use Initiate of Mystra to bypass Dead Magic/Antimagic
Use a persistent spellflower to hold a charge for a melee touch spell
Use Supernatural Spell to bypass spell resistance/magic immunity
Cast Raging Flame
Cast Poison Spell[Trollbane] Combust with metamagic: Searing Energy Admixture[Fire] Maximize Empower Blistering Heighten[L20]

Later, use Surge of Fortune to autohit dealing an expected 212.75 damage to fire immune and 425.5 to others. This penetrates Static planar traits, Infinite Spell Resistance, Infinite saves, Infinite AC, Damage Immunity via regeneration + nonlethal immunity, Evasion, Mettle, and Fire immunity. Against Antimagic, you'll either need an opponent without poison immunity or need to strip it via Disjunction so Poisoner's Breath can take effect. Against Delay Death/Beastland Ferocity you'll need to dispel as well. Oh: this also threatens a critical hit, so there is some chance of double damage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sonic - If you can cast Creaking Cacophony in Spell Compendium then every opponent will have vulnerability to sonic damage. Archmage with Mastery of Elements can convert other energy spells into sonic, but it's not doable with Energy Substitution.

Cold - The Druid list actually has some good options, particularly in the lower levels with (Lesser Rod of) Extended Creeping Cold. Archivist would gain access to those as well as any domain spells, Cleric spells, and anything else from a divine spell list. Piercing Cold is an obvious choice, of course, and DMM: Persistent Ice Axe gives you an all-day offensive weapon that deals your chosen energy.

Fire - Again the Druid list has decent choices, and Archivist enables you to access those as well as the extensive list of domain spells and other divine spells. Searing Spell gets around most immunities, and DMM: Persistent Flame Blade is another option for an all-day offensive weapon that deals your chosen energy. The Fiery Burst reserve feat is probably the best of all the energy types.

Acid - Generally good for bypassing SR, but has fewer choices than other energy types. Energy Substitution is an option, but you miss out on the inherent ability of most acid spells to ignore SR.

Electricity - It has a fair share of spell choices, most deal damage in a line rather than any other shape. I'd still go with an Archivist for access to choice Druid spells and of course Stormrage from Spell Compendium. The Storm Bolt reserve feat is actually quite good.

Force - It would be worth making a Sorcerer and spamming Wings of Flurry to fill the role you're looking for, but that's a bit of a one-trick pony. It's still probably better than most of your other options, especially considering the various Magic Missile-like spells and Wings of Cover.


Archivist - Gets access to any spells from the Cleric, Druid, Divine Bard, Paladin, Ranger, and various domain spell lists, which turns out to be quite an extensive list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445204-Lowest-level-versions-of-spells). Can also make use of Divine Metamagic if you dip a class that gets Turn Undead, such as Sacred Exorcist, has access to superb utility and buffing/debuffing spells, and it actually gets class features that are worth taking eleven levels of the base class.

Psion or Wilder or Erudite - Can swap between Electricity, Fire, Cold, and Sonic every time an energy power is used, so you can just change energy types if you run into immune or highly resistant opponents. Can't use Piercing Cold, Searing Spell, or reserve feats.

Wizard - Good ACFs, good prestige class choices, and good spell choices. An obvious go-to choice.

Sorcerer - Not necessarily as good as Wizard, but it does have its advantages considering you can spend every spell slot on blasting, or use them for utility when needed, whereas a Wizard has to choose what to spend the spell slots on at the start of the day.

(Cloistered) Cleric - With the right domains it has a distinct advantage in Divine Metamagic, but I wouldn't use this over Archivist.

Bard - Dragonfire Inspiration with Draconic Heritage to change the energy type could accomplish what you're looking for. Get Wild Cohort for an animal companion with multiple natural attacks, use a shortbow, cast Creaking Cacophony if you went with sonic, and add damage to every attack your party makes. I would dip a Sorcerer level with the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 substitution level to get Draconic Heritage.

Artificer - I've never played one or looked too deeply into building one, but from what I've seen this can be a very decent option.

[ben-zayb]

There is no Fort save for Poisoner's Breath and there is no fort save for Trollbane, hence you can poison an undead.
Not by RAW, you can't:

Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.That, by the way, is distinct from the immune-to-fort-save trait. Also:

Sertrous’s breath fills a 240-foot-radius spread around him. Any creature that breathes this foul air must succeed on a DC 33 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round. This breath suppresses any immunity to poison a victim possesses for as long as it remains within the area plus an additional 2d6 rounds after it leaves the area.Poisoner's breath's effect does have a fort ave, just not every part (kinda like how some spells have automatic parts that works regardless of save).

[Anthrowhale]

Not by RAW, you can't:
That, by the way, is distinct from the immune-to-fort-save trait. Also:
Poisoner's breath's effect does have a fort ave, just not every part (kinda like how some spells have automatic parts that works regardless of save).

I had forgotten sicken. Does Poisoner's breath have two effects (sicken fort neg and poison immunity suppression) or is it all one effect? If the first, then poison immunity can be suppressed on an undead and trollbane can then suppress regeneration. If the second, then the immunity to fort saves prevents the first step. I tend to think the first, but the second seems also valid. Do you know any RAW definition stating that a special ability has a single effect? Or can have multiple effects?

I'll update with the example here---it seems better anyways.

[ben-zayb]

I had forgotten sicken. Does Poisoner's breath have two effects (sicken fort neg and poison immunity suppression) or is it all one effect? If the first, then poison immunity can be suppressed on an undead and trollbane can then suppress regeneration. If the second, then the immunity to fort saves prevents the first step. I tend to think the first, but the second seems also valid. Do you know any RAW definition stating that a special ability has a single effect? Or can have multiple effects?

I'll update with the example here---it seems better anyways.Not sure, but I always compare it to Grease. If Grease is considered as a single effect, then it makes sense to also consider those as a single effect.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Fire has the greatest variety of spells and the best feat and class support, so it's probably your best option for a specialist. The disadvantage of also being the most resisted energy type is negated by specialization (Searing Spell, Silver Pyromancer, stuff like that).

It is closely followed by cold, which has many unique options to boost your damage that other elements lack (Cold Spell Specialization, Cold Snap, and similar effects). Piercing Cold isn't quite as good as Searing spell, but how many opponents with the cold subtype do you run into in a normal campaign?

The other three elements are about on par, with sonic generally being the least often resisted, followed by acid and then electricity. All have their unique benefits and downsides, but none of them have the support fire and cold enjoy or any options that make them particularly noteworthy as a primary element.

Force has the advantage of being almost never resisted and hitting ethereal and incorporeal creatures without issue, but force spells are relatively rare, with the available options generally being mediocre at best (excepting Wings of Flurry). They also get pretty much no special support and, to the best of my knowledge, are always subject to SR, with Orb of Force as the single exception.

[ShurikVch]

From the point of Vulnerability to Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#vulnerabilitytoEnergy), Fire>>Cold>>>>>Sonic>Everything else

From the point of Regeneration, Acid&Fire>Electricity>Everything else

[Âmesang]

I once contemplated giving my sorceress freezing sphere due solely to the humor of converting it to acid/electricity/fire/sonic damage and still freezing a body of water.

Likewise, I suppose any long-lasting fire spell turned cold causes freezer burn? :smalltongue:

[Jowgen]

So on the whole, Fire just wins purely due to the number of naturally vulnerable things and the amount of support it gets across the books, although Cold comes close and has some advantages.

Thanks folks :smallsmile:

[Rubik]

Best blasting type is Searing Spell fire spells. It is a +1 metamagic but literally nothing can stop the damage. Fire subtype reduces it, but that is it. Arcane Thesis a couple of your favorite fire spells and go to town (Searing Scorching Ray is my personal fave, but Searing Orb of Fire is a classic.)There are a few enemies that heal from fire damage. You can also be entirely immune to all damage, which overpowers even the ability to overcome fire immunity, and being immune to death from damage altogether via Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity. And then we have Exceptional Deflection and similar to deflect ranged effects. Not to mention Astral Projection to not even be there when you "die." Oh, and being a possessing ghost and whatnot. Sure, the body dies, but you can get another elsewhere. Nor does it help with sneaky characters; can't hit them if you can't find them. And there are people attacking you in ways you can't reciprocate with, like attacking through full cover. Also huge amounts of hardness to ignore the damage altogether.

Sure, Searing Spell deals with a lot of threats, but not all of them.