Help picking an interesting class with some restrictions

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all

So the campaign I am running is drawing to an early close because of time constraints. I can play, but I no longer have the time to run. Because I included some books my group usually bans, my group is going to run in the same world, but a different region, and with the same characters, rotating GMs as we go along.

This means I need to create my character. The only thing is, I dont know what to play. So I am turning to you. I would like to be effective in combat, but useful outside. I want to be weird and strange. But other than that I am stumped. I dont want to play something I have played before. The campaign I will join will be level 7, and will probably run to level 13 or so. So planning for level 20 is pointless. One of the reasons I probably wont go for Glaivelock, even though I feel its sort of what I want to play. Glaivelock wont come online until much later due to its poor base attack. Sigh.

Books available:

Core (Including PHBII and all MM)
Complete (excluding Psionics)
Frostburn
Sandstorm
Stormwrack
Races (Stone, Destiny, Dragon, Wild)
Dragon Magic
UA (no flaws)
ToB (for dips only. No pure classes or starting levels)



Current Party:

Beguiler/Wiz/Ultimate Magus
Halfling Rogue (who is really bad, im sorry but he is, but thats ok because...)
Frezy Totem Barb/Fighter (..This guy makes sure no one else takes part in combat... ever... and if they do...)
Monk/Swordsage (this guy is built for tripping and decisive strike.)
Druid (as if this party wasnt horrible enough -_- )
Cleric who raises dead



Obviously I will be in there and one of them wont at any one time.

Things I have played before:

Pure Ninja (honestly, it worked really well... I dont quite know how...)
Duskblade (my favorite character by far, so much fun and I was the only fighter)
Knight (thematic reasons, was going to go as party tank til we hit a dragon early on that half of the party ran from meaning I then played...)
Shapeshifting Druid



So what should I play? What COULD I play? Something fun. Encounters are already taken care of. The group is level 6, they are easily dispatching CR12 encounters. So no need for a super duper melee guy, or a blaster. I want some utility but also a lot of flavour. Please help...

[avr]

In that group you'd need an impressive nova to stand out. Psions of course nova very well.

For weirdness, something which people have done with psions is play a tibbit and pretend to be an ordinary cat or a familiar while around them the world explodes. Combines well with thrallherd for the disposable 'master'.

Alternately there's being a psion from a (very) different world; you use the strangest and ickiest powers you can and say offputting things ("Goblins? Back home we serve them with ketchup.")

Or you could play a egoist psion and shapeshift a lot, with metamorphic transfer to try and show up the druid.

[Albions_Angel]

No Psions. No Psionics books. I did say that. My group drew the line there, and I only just managed to sneak in ToB.

[Macros]

A bard can be pretty weird. And flavorfull. And answer quite nicely to your need of utility. Pick an exotic race on top of it, and you're good to go?

[avr]

No Psions. No Psionics books. I did say that. My group drew the line there, and I only just managed to sneak in ToB.
So you did. I misread Complete (excluding Psionics) as just excluding Complete Psionics, my mistake.

Conceptwise the middle one works with other classes, especially a warlock or a hexblade. Other ideas:

A noble, refined warrior-mage is a member of a secret society with an interest in the party's adventures. They're a Jade Phoenix Mage, assuming that wizard 5 / initiator 1 / JPM from that point is acceptable under your 'dips in ToB' rule.

A trader in exotic goods who happens to be a beguiler / sand shaper. Lots of utility and it doesn't have to look a bit like the other beguiler, and if you concentrate on the sand shaper spells it won't act the same in combat either.

[Val666]

You want something weird? Ask for Tome of Magic, go Binder 10/ KotSS 3 Get improved binding (obviously) and bind Zceryll at level 10. You gain cool stuff including the pseudonatural template (probably the definition of weird) and everything you summon through Zceryll gets the template too (more weird things). Binder is one of the most versatile classes in 3.5 so you can fill any role daily and Zceryll just makes you better at this with Summon Monster, at will, every 5 rounds.

[MisterKaws]

If you can get permission for an incarnum dip, you could always go CE tibbit soulborn 2/barbarian x, CE Soulborn becomes immune to strenght penalties at level 2, and thus you'd become a tiny machine of destruction, only problem is the CE on that, otherwise, it's pretty good.
You can also try a tibbit dragonfire adept, because nothing feels as good as being a tiny cat flying while throwing fire blasts out of its mouth.
Maybe you could also be a dragonwrought kobold paladin, who met with a were-lion lady, and then had a child in the middle of a celestial plane, then proceeded to train with your child in the elemental plane of cold. Then you could get to mount your Half-dragon(dragonwrought's son), celestial(born in a celestial plane) human(?) warrior 1(type dragon, subtype extraplanar, shapeshifter, good and cold), at level 910(with reduced mount bonuses, of course). Remember, DM's Guide(page 205 I think) says you can use ANYTHING willing and able as a mount, your son would probably be willing and able(unlike a real lion, which would freak out), as long as you grab winter's mount, and if you get celestial mount feat as well, you can grab it at lvl 8, but that's book of exalted deeds, so...
Edit: Actually, half-dragon increases the minimum pally level to 10, so better not to, just be a normal human and do the rest, you'll be able to get your child as a mount on lvl 8(7 if not celestial).

[Doctor Despair]

This means I need to create my character. The only thing is, I dont know what to play. So I am turning to you. I would like to be effective in combat, but useful outside. I want to be weird and strange. But other than that I am stumped. I dont want to play something I have played before. The campaign I will join will be level 7, and will probably run to level 13 or so.

Look at the Binder class (I don't remember the book exactly). You get crazy utility, boat loads of flavor, and a decent spot of damage if you want it, especially once you hit level 10 for Zceryll.

[Albions_Angel]

Dips in books I dont have listed wont be allowed. At all. Basically I am the DM, but my group plays with a very strict set of books (mostly because they believe some books are broken, Psionics and ToB for example, and Spell Compendium). I disagree and was able to shoehorn in ToB for dips only without open rebellion. The group is one I have been part of for a while but this is my first time DMing them.

Now, I would love to drop in the Psionics books, go psion and have some fun, but they would freak out if I suddenly included a new book (another one they believe broken) and THEN turn up next session as a player with a level 7 character from that book. Similarly with binders, would love to play one, but cant, just straight up cant.

This is my problem half the time. I have all these grand ideas for characters, and I go and find similar builds, and then find out that my idea of a warlock (hellfire, or glaivelock) requires books I am not allowed (no FF and we dont usually allow DrM). Or I want to play some sort of great champion, and party tank with high DPS, only to find that while Crusader is perfect, I am limited to Knight or Samurai while the party sorcerer blows past me with mage armour and bull strength and stabs the enemy with a spear. Or I find some tiny, esoteric class but it turns out to be **** unless you use half a dozen set books we dont allow, or errebon setting, or faerun.

For the last 3 years I have WANTED to play a binder, a hellfire warlock and a crusader. Instead I have played a ninja, a duskblade and a knight/shapeshift druid. Our games run only to level 13 MAX (due to time) and so i never get to play with anything cool. While Wiz and Cleric and Druid are high tier, its just so much work to play one effectively and I dont find it enjoyable. And there is no special thing about them at low levels. Either they nova early but pretty much ONLY nova (sure Wiz has a ton of utility, but lets be honest, with core and complete there are basically 5 spells you will use regularly from level 4 to level 13) or they come into themselves quite a bit later than 10 (looking at you, Druid. Wildshape not quite good enough, spells not quite there, animal companion not quite outpacing the other front liners). And the martial classes are worse. Wander in, smack over head, wander off.

beguiler is cool, but that was played last game, and now this one too. Warlock is super fun, but I want to be more use than an out of combat swiss army wand and a long range plink plink guy. Glaive lock is cool but it doesnt come online early enough and we ahve the monk and barbairan who take down both huge groups and crazy powerful monsters without a hit.

I just feel, meh, to be honest. I cant get excited about anything any more and its killing me.

[dspeyer]

That party could use a buffer and a battlefield controller. Straight wizard or sorcerer is probably best, maybe prestieging into War Weaver. Powerful but not very weird.

For weird, take Improved Familiar and a psuedodragon. Good for delivering touch buffs in combat. It's int 10 so roleplay it too. It has an inferiority complex about the "pseudo" thing.

[Albions_Angel]

Is there a fun (possibly level adjusted) fey I could play?

Jaebrin comes to mind, but any others? I just spotted joy stealer but it being incorporeal would prevent me from having any items. I dont mind being behind a few levels in class for a few in monster abilities.

[NomGarret]

Dragonfire Adept might be kinda fun. Beyond that, you might want to get some scoop on what the campaigns will feature and tailor your character to that.

[Nohwl]

necromancer themed cleric/walker in the waste?

[Troacctid]

Dragonfire Adept could work. Flavorful, always relevant in combat, and you have a reasonable amount of utility if you play your cards right.

If you want to play a fey, Killoren are +0 LA. I wouldn't call them exciting, though. Personally, I like the Half-Fey template, but it's not in your allowed sources.

If you want to try an unusual level-adjusted race, you could check out the Marrulurk, from Sandstorm. They have some interesting racial abilities.

[Dread_Head]

Is there a fun (possibly level adjusted) fey I could play?

Jaebrin comes to mind, but any others? I just spotted joy stealer but it being incorporeal would prevent me from having any items. I dont mind being behind a few levels in class for a few in monster abilities.

My favorite Fey race is Gloura from Underdark (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e). Casting as a Bard, Cha to AC and Saves and a great stat array. Unfortunatly it's ECL 9 but you mentioned Joystealer which is ECL 10 so thought I'd mention it. You'd probably focus on your caster abilities, possibly dipping Bard and entering Sublime Chord to supplement them. You also get reasonable skills to back it up and with the stats you get you can make a decent finesse fighter or archer (see below for some tips which might help with this).

Another interesting race is Killoren from Races of the Wild. Choosing the aspect which gives you smite 1/hour and the feat which lets you daze when you smite (Killoren Destroyer?). Then either go Spirit Shaman and focus on spells like Shillelagh, Spikes, Brambles, Entangling Staff and Greater Mighty Wallop for a solid Quarterstaff build with some casting to back it up. You can basically be swinging a tree around if you stack weapon size increases enough.

Or consider a ranged build. The Killoren Smite isn't limited to melee attacks and you can take Charming the Arrow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a) to make your ranged attacks based on Cha. Get a source of Turn Undead and take Divine Might (again doesn't specify melee only) and you can add Cha to damage as well.

One final suggestion is the Half Fey template. It grants a bunch of useful SLA's (take Magic in the Blood) and wings and works well with a variety of classes. It works pretty nicely with an invoker (DFA or Warlock) due to the stat boosts and the SLA's to provide variety to your invocations.

[Quertus]

I'd say start by deciding what role you'd like to play. Buff / debuff? Battlefield control? Skill monkey? Mind control / diplomacy? Then pick race / class to be able to perform that role in that party.

Since you are always going to be one member down, you could also try to play a character who can change his role to meet the party's needs. With limited books, cleric is one of the most versatile choices. Not as good as some of the party members you'd be replacing, obviously, and not your unusual style, but workable.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Spellthief is pretty funky, mechanically speaking.

[stanprollyright]

Bard/Warblade with White Raven maneuvers? Some kind of Sorcerer gish? With that big of a party you can pretty much do whatever you want.

[xyianth]

My first thought was to go for party buffs and battlefield control, but without relying on traditional caster mechanics. To that end, I'd recommend:

race: human
stat priority: con>dex/cha>int/wis>str
build: dragonfire adept 5/bard 1/stormsinger 2/warblade 1/stormsinger +4
feats: entangling exhalation[1], magical aptitude[h], storm magic[3], dragonfire inspiration[6], song of the white raven[9], draconic heritage(battle dragon)[12]
invocations: endure exposure[1], <any least>[3], humanoid shape[7], voracious dispelling[9], chilling fog[13]
breath effects: frost breath[2], slow breath[5]
maneuvers: wall of blades, iron heart surge, white raven tactics
stances: bolstering voice

tactics:

keep perform(sing) maxed, use invocations/breaths to control the battlefield and for general utility, and activate DFI/WRT as swift actions. Your main goal is to make your allies awesome while simultaneously making team monster unable to act normally. You can spam entangled, slowed, dispels, and solid fogs which will free your casters up to focus on other debuffs like blindness, staggered, paralyzed, and negative levels. Your stance will help your combat brutes shake off mind control effects and your music will boost the damage on all of their attacks. If all else fails, sing up a tornado to clear the battlefield then regroup with a new strategy.

useful items: vest of legends, badge of valor, crystal echoblade

final notes: the battle dragon heritage is only for the sonic DFI, feel free to select any other dragon for whatever element you like. The open least invocation should provide you with additional out of combat utility: magic insight grants detect magic and free identify, beguiling influence boosts your party face capability, draconic knowledge lets you pinch hit as a know it all with bardic knowledge checks, etc...

As a completely different alternative, for something more fey-like:

race: sylph
stat priority: cha>con/dex>wis/int>str
build:sylph 3/ruathar 3/abjurant champion 2
feats: combat casting prior to ECL 11

tactics: This is basically a fey-like creature that is an outsider with +7 BAB, darkvision, improved invisibility at-will, 90' fly(perfect), SR 14, casts as a 12th level sorcerer, and miscellaneous other traits plus a total stat modifier of +14. As an outsider, you can pick up and really (ab)use polymorph spells to the fullest. Your racial hit dice provides 8+int skill points and offers a skill list that is ideal for a sneaky scout style sorcerer.

I don't know if these are really what you are looking for, but hopefully they at least provide some form of inspiration.

[nintendoh]

How weird and interesting do you want it to be? I read a while back about the jester class. What book its from i dont know but its no where near over powered. It could very well be snuck in. What race would make the best jester you ask well that would be goliath. Powerful no but interesting yes. Imagine the role playing. He was kicked out of his tribe for the terrible jokes. When someone doesnt laugh... Warhammer!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dips in books I dont have listed wont be allowed. At all. Basically I am the DM, but my group plays with a very strict set of books (mostly because they believe some books are broken, Psionics and ToB for example, and Spell Compendium). I disagree and was able to shoehorn in ToB for dips only without open rebellion. The group is one I have been part of for a while but this is my first time DMing them.

In this case, you should make a spellcaster who does silly things. A properly built Druid can easily solo most encounters. A Cleric or Wizard abusing Planar Binding/Ally can have an army of extraplanar followers.

You should also use encounters that are tactically challenging, rather than just throwing bigger numbers at them. This sort of adventure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458441-Vampire-build-help#5) would challenge their endurance and sanity. Use some encounters like these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?300111-3-5-How-to-deal-with-min-maxed-players#7) that involve more than just trying to hit something with an axe. Use a Greater Shadow that Spring Attacks from the wall or floor, waits a few rounds under total cover while peeking out through cracks, and Spring Attack again on a target that's removed from the party enough that nobody can take a readied attack on it, repeat as necessary. Something like this adventure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?408757-Could-use-some-advice-on-how-to-challenge-a-high-powered-stealth-group#15) scaled down to their level and with races/classes/feats/etc. changed to things from the allowed books could be fitting.

[Tvtyrant]

Illumian Sun Cleric 1/bard 5/master of masks 1/Chameleon 10/swordsage 4

You are now proficient with all weapons, including harpoons, bolas, etc. Illumian will with the right gluphs give you a free divine metamagic which can apply to arcane spells, and you are good at everything.

[xyianth]

Illumian Sun Cleric 1/bard 5/master of masks 1/Chameleon 10/swordsage 4

You are now proficient with all weapons, including harpoons, bolas, etc. Illumian will with the right gluphs give you a free divine metamagic which can apply to arcane spells, and you are good at everything.

You are also level 21 in a campaign that ends at level 13... :smallconfused:

[Tvtyrant]

You are also level 21 in a campaign that ends at level 13... :smallconfused:

That is just in case. At level 7 it has got the cleric, bard and gladiator levels so it can persist bladeweave and is proficient with everything. By level 13 it has 6 levels of chameleon, so it can persist wraithstrike and polymorph.

[Hiro Quester]

A Fey bard/ sublime chord could be fun. Gloura would be fun. Perhaps a few White Raven manoevers. Your party could use a good face. Plus Buffing and BFC.

And there are many ways to take advantage of a high charisma to be awesome in melee when your party needs extra melee support: snowflake wardance for to-hit bonus, sirine's grace for AC, etc.

[Psyren]

Current Party:

Beguiler/Wiz/Ultimate Magus
Halfling Rogue (who is really bad, im sorry but he is, but thats ok because...)
Frezy Totem Barb/Fighter (..This guy makes sure no one else takes part in combat... ever... and if they do...)
Monk/Swordsage (this guy is built for tripping and decisive strike.)
Druid (as if this party wasnt horrible enough -_- )
Cleric who raises dead


Obviously I will be in there and one of them wont at any one time.

...

So what should I play? What COULD I play? Something fun. Encounters are already taken care of. The group is level 6, they are easily dispatching CR12 encounters. So no need for a super duper melee guy, or a blaster. I want some utility but also a lot of flavour. Please help...

It looks like you have two of everything except an arcane caster and/or face.

- 2 skillmonkeys (rogue and beguiler, possibly the swordsage too)
- 3 frontliners (Frenzybarb, Swordsage, Druid)
- 2 divine casters (cleric and druid)
- 1 arcanist (beguiler/wiz)
- 1 potential face (beguiler/wiz - note that nobody has a cha focus, so this would be skill-driven.)

If that beguiler guy is ever one of the folks to not show up, your party would likely be in trouble. So I suggest an arcane caster/face, e.g. the Bard/Sublime Chord someone suggested earlier in the thread. If SC is too late-game to matter, I'd consider something like a sorcerer (or warlock/DFA)/paragnostic apostle instead.