DnD 3.5 Core Light Weapons

[LordOfCain]

What is the best light weapon that a rogue has proficiency with to use weapon finesse with?

[LordOfCain]

Also, what are some good magic items (MIC is allowed)

[Morbis Meh]

Well if you are going straight melee then short sword isn't bad, or short sword + rapier since you can finesse both... also if you can do it I would recommend a dip in swordsage so you can get dex to damage with shortswords. Another option is to take exotic wep prof and use a spiked chain...

As for MIC items, there are a pair of gloves that allow you to sneak attack undead a few times per day if forsee that being a problem

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's the short sword, for the simple fact that you don't get any damage higher than 1d6 or a crit range higher than 19-20 with rogue weapon profs, and the short sword has both.
The only reason to use another weapon if you're limited to those is if you want a different damage type.

[mabriss lethe]

Sickle is also a situationally good weapon, since you can trip with it.

[nyjastul69]

It's the short sword, for the simple fact that you don't get any damage higher than 1d6 or a crit range higher than 19-20 with rogue weapon profs, and the short sword has both.
The only reason to use another weapon if you're limited to those is if you want a different damage type.

Rogues are proficient with rapiers which are d6 damage 18-20 threat range.

[Urpriest]

Rogues are proficient with rapiers which are d6 damage 18-20 threat range.

Not a light weapon though.

[nyjastul69]

Not a light weapon though.

Right. I read right past the light part. Sorry.

[ericgrau]

Here's the breakdown for a core finesse rogue:


Dagger: Best if you both throw and melee, plus has utility uses. Throw against flat-footed opponents round 1, 5 foot or move closer, flank round 2+. Good backup weapon even if your main weapon is something else.
Short sword: Best with TWF, because weapon focus is actually useful in core and this lets you have matching weapons.
Rapier: Best if fighting with 1 weapon. Combine with a masterwork buckler, which has no non-proficiency penalty. Though yeah technically as pointed out while you can finesse it isn't a light weapon. Not sure what the OP's goal is.


I don't think the other core finessable weapons that a rogue can use are good on a high dex, low-med str rogue. I suppose a backup sickle is ok for the rare time you might get to trip a tiny creature who actually suffers from being prone and yet has a poor attack roll on his attack of opportunity. Or if you can manage both a high dex and high str. But then I'm betting you didn't take weapon finesse right away.

[Zeruel]

Another option is to take exotic wep prof and use a spiked chain...

With the option of EWP, I'd rather go for two single-edged kusarigama: light, 1d6 slashing dmg, 10gp, and in any other aspect they are spiked chains. So you can hide them, use them to death attack (if you have levels in Assassin/Avenger) and with TWF. I'm wondering why so few people know about them, it's a pity... :smallfrown:

[sleepyphoenixx]

With the option of EWP, I'd rather go for two single-edged kusarigama: light, 1d6 slashing dmg, 10gp, and in any other aspect they are spiked chains. So you can hide them, use them to death attack (if you have levels in Assassin/Avenger) and with TWF. I'm wondering why so few people know about them, it's a pity... :smallfrown:

Probably because they're hidden in the DMG together with firearms. Also because reach doesn't really add that much to most TWF builds.
You don't have the Str to trip or use other lockdown tactics, so your threatened area doesn't matter much.
You generally have high dex and tumble anyway, so you're not that bothered to avoid AoO.
They're not discipline weapons for Shadow Hand, so they don't work with the Shadow Blade feat (which is a common option for TWF builds to get damage).
And finalls if you're build for TWF you're already pretty feat starved, with the rest being eaten up by "must-have" rogue feats like Darkstalker and Craven.

If you want a reach weapon that can attack adjacent and trip you're usually going for a lockdown build, meaning you want high Str for those trip checks. You get more out of that with a twohanded weapon, so people take the spiked chain instead.
The kusari-gama just doesn't have any builds it's so perfectly suited for. Sure, more reach would be nice, but it's generally not worth a feat even if you had any leftover to spend on it in the first place.

[Aetis]

I believe dagger is the best light weapon that a rogue has proficiency with to use weapon finesse with.

It can be used melee or thrown as mentioned. It can also deal piercing or slashing type of damage, and it is very light-weight and is easily concealed.

[Zeruel]

Probably because they're hidden in the DMG together with firearms. Also because reach doesn't really add that much to most TWF builds.
You don't have the Str to trip or use other lockdown tactics, so your threatened area doesn't matter much.
You generally have high dex and tumble anyway, so you're not that bothered to avoid AoO.
They're not discipline weapons for Shadow Hand, so they don't work with the Shadow Blade feat (which is a common option for TWF builds to get damage).
And finalls if you're build for TWF you're already pretty feat starved, with the rest being eaten up by "must-have" rogue feats like Darkstalker and Craven.

If you want a reach weapon that can attack adjacent and trip you're usually going for a lockdown build, meaning you want high Str for those trip checks. You get more out of that with a twohanded weapon, so people take the spiked chain instead.
The kusari-gama just doesn't have any builds it's so perfectly suited for. Sure, more reach would be nice, but it's generally not worth a feat even if you had any leftover to spend on it in the first place.

Well, I think it would be good to spend a feat to be able to sneak attack from a safer position (I know, "safer" doesn't mean "safe" actually), plus there's nothing preventing you from having both Dex and Str high, while you're probably boosting the former. But in the end, if you're going for a trip build, you are right.

However, I can't stop thinking... why not wielding a huge kusarigama? It'd be still a two-handed finessable weapon, it would do more damage (2d6) than the spiked chain (2d4), and it would be highly flavorful!

I imagine getting stalked by the Grim Reaper with a chained scyte being damn scary, I mean, I'd have to run 10 feet faster than normal

[Inevitability]

Well, your options are:

-Unarmed strike. Obviously a bad option, unless you're some kind of weird rogue/monk.
-Dagger. Probably worth it keeping a few of those in case you need a throwing weapon.
-Punching dagger. Generally inferior to the dagger. Still, it's slightly better in cases like stabbing someone while they sleep, so it's worth having one on hand. 2 gp isn't a lot.
-Spiked gauntlet. Unless your DM likes to disarm you, not worth it.
-Light mace. Keep one on hand in case you need to fight something weak against bludgeoning.
-Sickle. Expensive and weak. Tripping isn't going to be your forte as a rogue. Don't buy it.
-Sap. For when you need to keep someone alive.
-Short sword. Pretty much your best option here.

I recommend buying a short sword as your primary weapon, then keeping a dozen daggers, a sap, and a light mace as backup weapons. If you really don't know what to spend your money on, buy a punching dagger and sickle, too.

[ericgrau]

Forgot that rogues got free sap proficiency. And you can do nonlethal sneak attack with it, which is normally impossible. There are lots of times when keeping a foe alive can yield information or so forth. With nearly the same damage as the short sword it seems like the superior choice to me against everything living. Use a shortsword on everything non-living, but then in core you aren't that effective against those creatures anyway.