Sphinx Companion

[Alistaroc]

So, I'd like to make a character who has a Sphinx as a companion, but the only way I can see it happening is a Leadership score of 17 for a Gynosphinx.
Any other suggestions on getting a Sphinx companion?

And any ideas on how to build the character?
I was thinking either Sha'ir, Swordsage, or Archivist 5/Runecaster 8/Contemplative 7.
Sha'ir gives the Charisma synergy, but Runecaster seems very intellectual, sphinx-like. And Swordsage is there because Desert Sun maneuvers:smalltongue:.

Thoughts? Advice?

EDIT: Archivist 5 can actually be swapped out for Sha'ir 5, and all it would require changing is watching people cast spells as opposed to copying them from spellbooks.

[DrMotives]

Earliest sphinx you can get is the saurosphinx. Not sure how much you like the idea of a lizard-headed sphinx, but all the others seem to tie for gynosphinx or come later, leadership-wise.

[Alistaroc]

Earliest sphinx you can get is the saurosphinx. Not sure how much you like the idea of a lizard-headed sphinx, but all the others seem to tie for gynosphinx or come later, leadership-wise.
I had considered the Saurosphinx, but it loses the feel I'm going for with the Gyno/Androsphinx.

[Tvtyrant]

So, I'd like to make a character who has a Sphinx as a companion, but the only way I can see it happening is a Leadership score of 17 for a Gynosphinx.
Any other suggestions on getting a Sphinx companion?

And any ideas on how to build the character?
I was thinking either Sha'ir, Swordsage, or Archivist 5/Runecaster 8/Contemplative 7.
Sha'ir gives the Charisma synergy, but Runecaster seems very intellectual, sphinx-like. And Swordsage is there because Desert Sun maneuvers:smalltongue:.

Thoughts? Advice?

Write a Sphinx lover into your backstory and ask that they join the party as an NPC when they are not a threat to party balance.

Mind control one, or geas it.

Ask to swap out "Planar Ally" for "Monstrous Ally." Same with binding.

"Summon Monstrous Ally" and ask that it be the same sphinx each time.

See if you can get a "Monstrous Companion" and be a Druid.

Max your diplomacy and get some items of skill boosting, ask it to be your friend.

Ask to run into one, then seduce it into being your mount/lover.

Buy a scroll of wish, wish for one who worships you/follows you.

Offer to serve one for 10 years if you cannot guess its riddle, but the same is true in reverse if you can.

Belong to the same church as one.

Pay one to work for you.

Buy one as a slave (Lords of Madness) then bind a demon and have it possess it.

[Rift_Wolf]

Write a Sphinx lover into your backstory and ask that they join the party as an NPC when they are not a threat to party balance.

Mind control one, or geas it.

Ask to swap out "Planar Ally" for "Monstrous Ally." Same with binding.

"Summon Monstrous Ally" and ask that it be the same sphinx each time.

See if you can get a "Monstrous Companion" and be a Druid.

Max your diplomacy and get some items of skill boosting, ask it to be your friend.

Ask to run into one, then seduce it into being your mount/lover.

Buy a scroll of wish, wish for one who worships you/follows you.

Offer to serve one for 10 years if you cannot guess its riddle, but the same is true in reverse if you can.

Belong to the same church as one.

Pay one to work for you.

Buy one as a slave (Lords of Madness) then bind a demon and have it possess it.

If you're wondering what that Distant wet popping sound is, that's a number of DMs minds exploding.

[Alistaroc]

Write a Sphinx lover into your backstory and ask that they join the party as an NPC when they are not a threat to party balance.

Mind control one, or geas it.

Ask to swap out "Planar Ally" for "Monstrous Ally." Same with binding.

"Summon Monstrous Ally" and ask that it be the same sphinx each time.

See if you can get a "Monstrous Companion" and be a Druid.

Max your diplomacy and get some items of skill boosting, ask it to be your friend.

Ask to run into one, then seduce it into being your mount/lover.

Buy a scroll of wish, wish for one who worships you/follows you.

Offer to serve one for 10 years if you cannot guess its riddle, but the same is true in reverse if you can.

Belong to the same church as one.

Pay one to work for you.

Buy one as a slave (Lords of Madness) then bind a demon and have it possess it.
Uhhh.... the swapping Planar Ally into Monstrous Ally, same with Binding, is that just a straight conversion? And how does that affect game balance?
While I like the idea of being a Druid of the deserts, Monstrous Companion seems a little too much to ask for imho, it's quite powerful already limited to animals...

If you're wondering what that Distant wet popping sound is, that's a number of DMs minds exploding.
Pretty much.

[Tvtyrant]

Uhhh.... the swapping Planar Ally into Monstrous Ally, same with Binding, is that just a straight conversion? And how does that affect game balance?

Are you planning to use it as a way to become all powerful? Is the Sphinx better than the alternative? In general magical beasts are weaker than outsiders, but even if they weren't if all you want is a Sphinx then it shouldn't be a problem. As far as I can tell none of them are as bad as the better equivalent bindings/allies, like Arcanoloth, the Aspect of Kurtulmak, the Aspect of Tiamat, the Quori, Dream Master, etc. If Planar Binding is available than Sphinx's are a huge step down.

[DrMotives]

I think the Planar Binding way would be legal if you templated the sphinx. Celestial, Axiomatic, Fiendish, or Anarchic would all make it into an outsider sphinx from your deity's realm.

[Urpriest]

Healers can get a Sphinx companion at 12th level.

[Alistaroc]

Healers can get a Sphinx companion at 12th level.
Hmmm
While that looks pretty great, I'd rather not waste 12 levels for it...

At this point I'm looking at a Swordsage/Sha'ir/Jade Phoenix Mage gish with Leadership... although I have no clue how something like that would work out level-wise.

[Tvtyrant]

Hmmm
While that looks pretty great, I'd rather not waste 12 levels for it...

At this point I'm looking at a Swordsage/Sha'ir/Jade Phoenix Mage gish with Leadership... although I have no clue how something like that would work out level-wise.

A Gynosphinx has the ECL of a level 12 character. ECL for Sphinx's is equal to HD+LA, which is at the bottom of their profile and is indicated as cohort.

[Alistaroc]

A Gynosphinx has the ECL of a level 12 character. ECL for Sphinx's is equal to HD+LA, which is at the bottom of their profile and is indicated as cohort.
Ummm.... yes.... I knew that... that's why I said it requires a Leadership score of 17...

[Tvtyrant]

Ummm.... yes.... I knew that... that's why I said it requires a Leadership score of 17...

Sorry I thought when you were saying "although I have no clue how something like that would work out level-wise" about the cohort, did not realize it was about your character build.

[Alistaroc]

Sorry I thought when you were saying "although I have no clue how something like that would work out level-wise" about the cohort, did not realize it was about your character build.
Ah, sorry about that.

Yeah, I wouldn't know how to build that character, besides maybe locking in JPM 9.

[MisterKaws]

DMG page 205 has some stuff on unusual mounts for paladins, so if you convince your DM, you can get a Gynosphinx at lvl 12 by getting a -7 to your effective paladin level to determine mount's abilities, down to the initial 5. Do take note, however, that intelligent unusual mounts can ask for a portion of the party's income, and Gynosphinxes are known for making deals involving money, so that's probably gonna happen if you even manage to convince your DM.
Hint: Go halfling paladin 5/beastmaster 1/halfling outrider 10 for extra cheese; add celestial mount(BoED) and winter's mount(FB) for first-rate cheddar.

Edit: remember, if a DM is allowing the ubercheese known as leadership to exist in a game, you can point that out to him and he's probably gonna allow it as long as you don't go entering pun-pun's territory.

[Alistaroc]

DMG page 205 has some stuff on unusual mounts for paladins, so if you convince your DM, you can get a Gynosphinx at lvl 12 by getting a -7 to your effective paladin level to determine mount's abilities, down to the initial 5. Do take note, however, that intelligent unusual mounts can ask for a portion of the party's income, and Gynosphinxes are known for making deals involving money, so that's probably gonna happen if you even manage to convince your DM.
Hint: Go halfling paladin 5/beastmaster 1/halfling outrider 10 for extra cheese; add celestial mount(BoED) and winter's mount(FB) for first-rate cheddar.

Edit: remember, if a DM is allowing the ubercheese known as leadership to exist in a game, you can point that out to him and he's probably gonna allow it as long as you don't go entering pun-pun's territory. Actually the only reason Leadership is allowed is there will be no followers, and I can only have said Gynosphinx... Otherwise it gets really cheesy really fast. I'm hoping to avoid much cheese tbh.

[MisterKaws]

Actually the only reason Leadership is allowed is there will be no followers, and I can only have said Gynosphinx... Otherwise it gets really cheesy really fast. I'm hoping to avoid much cheese tbh.

In that case, not much you can do, either wait for the leadership score to level until you can grab that girl as a cohort, or mount her as Brodo Swaggins.

Of course you COULD go Erudite Thrallherd, but that's the cheeseking, so I guess you wouldn't really like that.

[Alistaroc]

DMG page 205 has some stuff on unusual mounts for paladins, so if you convince your DM, you can get a Gynosphinx at lvl 12 by getting a -7 to your effective paladin level to determine mount's abilities, down to the initial 5. Do take note, however, that intelligent unusual mounts can ask for a portion of the party's income, and Gynosphinxes are known for making deals involving money, so that's probably gonna happen if you even manage to convince your DM.
But what does one do with 12 levels of Paladin?

[Inevitability]

Whatever you do, don't take a sphynx as cohort.

Instead, take a 12th level paladin or healer as cohort, than have him take a sphynx.

[Alistaroc]

Whatever you do, don't take a sphynx as cohort.

Instead, take a 12th level paladin or healer as cohort, than have him take a sphynx.
Why is a Sphinx cohort so terrible? Seems to have useful SLAs, flight, and with a few items and buff spells it seems like it'd be a decent companion.

[Inevitability]

Why is a Sphinx cohort so terrible? Seems to have useful SLAs, flight, and with a few items and buff spells it seems like it'd be a decent companion.

I was referring to a simple trick that lets you gain sphynx + something else instead of just the sphynx.

[Alistaroc]

I was referring to a simple trick that lets you gain sphynx + something else instead of just the sphynx.
I've had dice bags(full of dice) thrown at me for less, I'd rather avoid the backpack of books being hurled at my head:smalleek:

[MisterKaws]

But what does one do with 12 levels of Paladin?

That's why I said to go Brodo Swaggins and enter halfling outrider right after dipping beastmaster for double progression, you can swap pally's spels for some other feature too, I remember an ACF that changed it into fighter feats, and there's also the martial paladin in CW.

[Alistaroc]

That's why I said to go Brodo Swaggins and enter halfling outrider right after dipping beastmaster for double progression, you can swap pally's spels for some other feature too, I remember an ACF that changed it into fighter feats, and there's also the martial paladin in CW.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Paladin 3/X 1/Prestige Paladin 2/Beastmaster 1 would give a Gynosphinx, would it not?

Of note, a Leadership score of 24 allows for a Fire-Souled Half-Fey Saint Gynosphinx... That may be getting a little out of hand. Maybe at higher levels though...

EDIT: Wait how does one determine that a Gynosphinx(8 HD, +5 LA) is available to a Paladin at Level 12? I see no correlation in those numbers...

[MisterKaws]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Paladin 3/X 1/Prestige Paladin 2/Beastmaster 1 would give a Gynosphinx, would it not?

Of note, a Leadership score of 24 allows for a Fire-Souled Half-Fey Saint Gynosphinx... That may be getting a little out of hand. Maybe at higher levels though...

EDIT: Wait how does one determine that a Gynosphinx(8 HD, +5 LA) is available to a Paladin at Level 12? I see no correlation in those numbers...

DMG Page 205, it's determined by creature's CR+3 for a nonflying, or CR+4 for a flying creature, in this case 8+4, and no, leveling animal companion's strength won't increase the maximum CR of your mount even if you have devoted tracker, unless you houserule it, but anything with an effective paladin level of 12 would be able to, with 5th level paladin's mount stats.

And about templating, you can use features that advance your paladin mount's CR even further when you level up, in exchange for only getting the initial mount's benefits, but if you go halfling outrider with devoted tracker, your mount will have the companion's bonuses just fine, so it's quite a good thing. I found it out one week ago when I was trying to further optimize the PO ubermount, and I found out you can mount a cauchemar just fine at Lv 15.

[Alistaroc]

Zhentarim Skymage gives any flying mount with HD equal to or less that Zhentarim Skymage class level + Cha modifier + 1, meaning a Gynosphinx is easily attainable. Funnily enough, by RAW it could have any number of templates, being limited by HD rather than ECL. Although I feel a houserule about +1 LA counting as +1 HD would be fair, to keep mount advancement moving along without breaking it in half.

Thoughts?

[MisterKaws]

Zhentarim Skymage gives any flying mount with HD equal to or less that Zhentarim Skymage class level + Cha modifier + 1, meaning a Gynosphinx is easily attainable. Funnily enough, by RAW it could have any number of templates, being limited by HD rather than ECL. Although I feel a houserule about +1 LA counting as +1 HD would be fair, to keep mount advancement moving along without breaking it in half.

Thoughts?

If you bring the skymage to a table, you're asking for a book to the head. Full caster progression, ridiculous mount, ridiculous abilities, yup, that'd get you at least 4 or 5 books to the head at the moment someone sees it.

[Alistaroc]

If you bring the skymage to a table, you're asking for a book to the head. Full caster progression, ridiculous mount, ridiculous abilities, yup, that'd get you at least 4 or 5 books to the head at the moment someone sees it.
That bad huh?
I can see the potential for abuse, but I assumed it's like a kobold, usable or abusable.

[MisterKaws]

That bad huh?
I can see the potential for abuse, but I assumed it's like a kobold, usable or abusable.

It's kinda like a druid, if you don't make a visible effort to weaken yourself, you're at least at the level of a demigod.

[Alistaroc]

If you bring the skymage to a table, you're asking for a book to the head. Full caster progression, ridiculous mount, ridiculous abilities, yup, that'd get you at least 4 or 5 books to the head at the moment someone sees it.


It's kinda like a druid, if you don't make a visible effort to weaken yourself, you're at least at the level of a demigod.
Could I have an example? Because I know for sure you can just play a druid and not be demigod, if you're not drawing from obscure sourcebooks or using things like Venomfire.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you bring the skymage to a table, you're asking for a book to the head. Full caster progression, ridiculous mount, ridiculous abilities, yup, that'd get you at least 4 or 5 books to the head at the moment someone sees it.
What? Are we looking at the same class? Because the only one I can see costs 2-3 crappy feats in exchange for a medium BAB, a d4 HD on a gish, four bonus feats that range from decent-but-you-probably-already-have-it-if-you-care (Extend Spell) to crap (Skill Focus), and couple free scrolls/spellbook spells. And the mount? The mount is...not ridiculous. At best it's got 6+Cha HD, which is maybe what, 18 HD at 20th level? You'd probably be better off with just taking Improved Familiar for a hippogriff, or one of the various Leadership-style feats. The worst you can do is exploit the extremely open "flying monster" clause for something with unbalanced SLAs, but it's not like you couldn't do the same thing with Planar Binding/Ally. Oh, but you cannot, under any circumstances, let this thing die. An animal companion dying is a mild inconvenience, a familiar dying can zap you some xp, a paladin's special mount dying is obnoxious if you don't have downtime, but the Skymage will remove its trademark class feature-- the one you took the PrC for, the one you took multiple feats for-- for two friggin levels.

So... yeah. It's a decent gish PrC, but nothing special. You could potentially get a too-powerful-for-its-HD mount, assuming sufficient book diving, but you can lose it big time, and meanwhile you're only getting a d4 HD.

[Tvtyrant]

What? Are we looking at the same class? Because the only one I can see costs 2-3 crappy feats in exchange for a medium BAB, a d4 HD on a gish, four bonus feats that range from decent-but-you-probably-already-have-it-if-you-care (Extend Spell) to crap (Skill Focus), and couple free scrolls/spellbook spells. And the mount? The mount is...not ridiculous. At best it's got 6+Cha HD, which is maybe what, 18 HD at 20th level? You'd probably be better off with just taking Improved Familiar for a hippogriff, or one of the various Leadership-style feats. The worst you can do is exploit the extremely open "flying monster" clause for something with unbalanced SLAs, but it's not like you couldn't do the same thing with Planar Binding/Ally. Oh, but you cannot, under any circumstances, let this thing die. An animal companion dying is a mild inconvenience, a familiar dying can zap you some xp, a paladin's special mount dying is obnoxious if you don't have downtime, but the Skymage will remove its trademark class feature-- the one you took the PrC for, the one you took multiple feats for-- for two friggin levels.

So... yeah. It's a decent gish PrC, but nothing special. You could potentially get a too-powerful-for-its-HD mount, assuming sufficient book diving, but you can lose it big time, and meanwhile you're only getting a d4 HD.

You could certainly uncanny trickster it higher, but I think you are right.

[Urpriest]

What? Are we looking at the same class? Because the only one I can see costs 2-3 crappy feats in exchange for a medium BAB, a d4 HD on a gish, four bonus feats that range from decent-but-you-probably-already-have-it-if-you-care (Extend Spell) to crap (Skill Focus), and couple free scrolls/spellbook spells. And the mount? The mount is...not ridiculous. At best it's got 6+Cha HD, which is maybe what, 18 HD at 20th level? You'd probably be better off with just taking Improved Familiar for a hippogriff, or one of the various Leadership-style feats. The worst you can do is exploit the extremely open "flying monster" clause for something with unbalanced SLAs, but it's not like you couldn't do the same thing with Planar Binding/Ally. Oh, but you cannot, under any circumstances, let this thing die. An animal companion dying is a mild inconvenience, a familiar dying can zap you some xp, a paladin's special mount dying is obnoxious if you don't have downtime, but the Skymage will remove its trademark class feature-- the one you took the PrC for, the one you took multiple feats for-- for two friggin levels.

So... yeah. It's a decent gish PrC, but nothing special. You could potentially get a too-powerful-for-its-HD mount, assuming sufficient book diving, but you can lose it big time, and meanwhile you're only getting a d4 HD.

It's not really a gish, d4 HD as you mentioned. Instead, it's the fact that your mount can come from an essentially arbitrary list of monsters, limited only by HD. Want the Paragon template? No cost in HD there. Same with any template whatsoever, since you don't have to worry about changing the type.

[MisterKaws]

Could I have an example? Because I know for sure you can just play a druid and not be demigod, if you're not drawing from obscure sourcebooks or using things like Venomfire.

I think a dinossaur mounted on a bigger dinossaur while summoning an army of dinossaurs and buffing them all is pretty strong...

Edit:


What? Are we looking at the same class? Because the only one I can see costs 2-3 crappy feats in exchange for a medium BAB, a d4 HD on a gish, four bonus feats that range from decent-but-you-probably-already-have-it-if-you-care (Extend Spell) to crap (Skill Focus), and couple free scrolls/spellbook spells. And the mount? The mount is...not ridiculous. At best it's got 6+Cha HD, which is maybe what, 18 HD at 20th level? You'd probably be better off with just taking Improved Familiar for a hippogriff, or one of the various Leadership-style feats. The worst you can do is exploit the extremely open "flying monster" clause for something with unbalanced SLAs, but it's not like you couldn't do the same thing with Planar Binding/Ally. Oh, but you cannot, under any circumstances, let this thing die. An animal companion dying is a mild inconvenience, a familiar dying can zap you some xp, a paladin's special mount dying is obnoxious if you don't have downtime, but the Skymage will remove its trademark class feature-- the one you took the PrC for, the one you took multiple feats for-- for two friggin levels.

So... yeah. It's a decent gish PrC, but nothing special. You could potentially get a too-powerful-for-its-HD mount, assuming sufficient book diving, but you can lose it big time, and meanwhile you're only getting a d4 HD.

So... Just ressurect it? And even if you don't have the resources right away, you could just make it a deathless for a while.

And if you don't realize it, any animal with magebred(still animal), half-celestial(outsider), half dragon(dragon), axiomatic(still dragon), shadow(still dragon), spellwarped(aberration with dragon-type's stats), pseudonatural(outsider with dragon-type's stats), and any other template you can combo in, would be absurdly powerful, even just the stat bonuses are str +20 dex +6 con +12 int +8 wis +4 cha +6, a tad too ridiculous, don't you think?

[Inevitability]

Could I have an example? Because I know for sure you can just play a druid and not be demigod, if you're not drawing from obscure sourcebooks or using things like Venomfire.

Ever read Tales of Wyre (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?58227-Tales-of-Wyre)? The druid in there easily wipes out an entire army on his own, using nothing but his own spells and a few magic items. Oh, and he also rises an army on the other side of the continent, fights in an interplanar war, and crafts some powerful magic items. All while also working with the party, of course. It should be mentioned that his player isn't 'too much of an optimizer'.

Druids are just incredibly strong, no matter how you play them.

[Alistaroc]

Ever read Tales of Wyre (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?58227-Tales-of-Wyre)? The druid in there easily wipes out an entire army on his own, using nothing but his own spells and a few magic items. Oh, and he also rises an army on the other side of the continent, fights in an interplanar war, and crafts some powerful magic items. All while also working with the party, of course. It should be mentioned that his player isn't 'too much of an optimizer'.

Druids are just incredibly strong, no matter how you play them.
Sure, if you want to play god. But I've palyed with people who just play their happy little druid, protector of the woods, etc, and it's been fine balance. They don't go crazy optimizing, and don't TRY to break the game. With enough trying you can break the game with anything, so there's no point in calling a class broken no matter how you play it.

[MisterKaws]

Sure, if you want to play god. But I've palyed with people who just play their happy little druid, protector of the woods, etc, and it's been fine balance. They don't go crazy optimizing, and don't TRY to break the game. With enough trying you can break the game with anything, so there's no point in calling a class broken no matter how you play it.

That's the point, the druid doesn't need to really 'try' to be god, he just needs to notice that he's OP as long as he's a common druid.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So... Just ressurect it? And even if you don't have the resources right away, you could just make it a deathless for a while.

And if you don't realize it, any animal with magebred(still animal), half-celestial(outsider), half dragon(dragon), axiomatic(still dragon), shadow(still dragon), spellwarped(aberration with dragon-type's stats), pseudonatural(outsider with dragon-type's stats), and any other template you can combo in, would be absurdly powerful, even just the stat bonuses are str +20 dex +6 con +12 int +8 wis +4 cha +6, a tad too ridiculous, don't you think?
Hmm, template stacking is a fair point, although I feel like it's veering a little bit into "well, it doesn't say I can't do that" territory. (It strikes me like saying "well, Leadership just specifies level, not ECL, so my 4th level cohort can have the Paragon template," but the class feature doesn't have any of the usual "can't call a specific creature" limits.)