Magic Jar and the Quest for immortality?

[druid91]

Magic Jar, if properly done seems to make for a sort of functional casual immortality. Sure there are specific measures one could go to to kill you but with a few safety features, very few things will give you a certainty of death.

Get your gem as a focus, get a few bars of adamantine and some feathers.

Hire a strong but uncharismatic farmer to 'help you with your research' or if you're of good alignment capture an orc or bandit or something.

(Since it's a necromancy spell, might as well assume the player has access to animate dead.)

Raise a few skeletons to assist you in the ritual. Cast magic jar on your gem. Proceed to possess the farmer, and then take your new soul-jar and set it amongst the feathers and adamantine. Cast Fabricate to make a simple protective shell of feather lined adamantine around your gem. Congratulations. Your soul jar is now impervious to most common forms of attack, as well as the shell blocking line of effect, preventing opponents from dispelling the spell.

This leaves your soul (Hardy Har Har.:smalltongue:) weakness as that pesky charisma save vs your own spell DC when your host dies. Which is potentially livable but still risky.

One possible way to shore this up would, depending on your reading, be with legendary resistance. Which there are several (Difficult) means of getting. Vampirism being one. Dragon transformation being another (Though more controversial than Vampirism.)

Of course those things are BOTH very hard to get. And require a very very cooperative DM. Can anyone else think of a way to make that hurdle a bit less... lethal?

EDIT: One possibility is the Lucky feat. But that only increases your chances rather than reducing the difficulty in any way.

[MaxWilson]

Death Ward should work, and Portent. Could take Wild Sorc 1 for Tides of Chaos if you were so inclined, or if you were a Sorcerer already who was Magic Jar'ing via Wish. And in an adventuring context, don't forget Bardic Inspiration and/or Bless from allies.

But ultimately, a little risk from Magic Jar is tolerable as long as you know Clone or you have a friend who knows Raise Dead. The main use of Magic Jar is getting yourself a stronger chassis--not a peasant farmer but a 120+ HP werebear who is immune to normal weapons.

[SharkForce]

if you're a sorcerer, you just use careful spell. problem solved. you now make every save against your own magic jar ever.

but honestly, if you know clone (or wish), you can already be immortal. no need to get all fancy about it.

[Sigreid]

I think Clone is simpler and more viable.

[druid91]

Portent and Death ward are both good. Though I didn't actually think Lycanthropes were humanoids, but apparently they are.

Clone is indeed simpler, but it's also an 8th level spell. While Magic Jar is a 6th level spell. Though it makes for a persuasive argument as to why you should keep your old body well taken care of, that's somewhere in the realm of 80,000 XP between gaining magic jar and gaining clone.

To put that into perspective that's roughly akin to soloing two ancient red dragons and then a bit more. Not insurmountable, but certainly quite a barrier.

Also careful spell is very good, but the wording could be troubling since it focuses on 'other' creatures. Not to mention that for a sorcerer to get magic jar they'd either need wish, or be multiclassed with wizard. At which point the above complaints make more sense.

Though a Sorc 3/ Wizard 11 could grab it while not quite being able to just cast clone if they stuck pure Wizard.

[MaxWilson]

Clone is indeed simpler, but it's also an 8th level spell. While Magic Jar is a 6th level spell. Though it makes for a persuasive argument as to why you should keep your old body well taken care of, that's somewhere in the realm of 80,000 XP between gaining magic jar and gaining clone.

To put that into perspective that's roughly akin to soloing two ancient red dragons and then a bit more. Not insurmountable, but certainly quite a barrier.

An ancient red is worth 62,000 XP, so soloing even a single ancient red gets you 77.5% of the way there. XP gain in 5E is extremely fast.

[druid91]

An ancient red is worth 62,000 XP, so soloing even a single ancient red gets you 77.5% of the way there. XP gain in 5E is extremely fast.

... No it's not? An Ancient Red is worth 36,500 XP.... Where did you get 62,000 from? I got mine from the Red Dragon statbar on page 97.

[Foxhound438]

if you're a sorcerer, you just use careful spell. problem solved. you now make every save against your own magic jar ever.

but honestly, if you know clone (or wish), you can already be immortal. no need to get all fancy about it.

"when you cast a spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw..."

[MaxWilson]

... No it's not? An Ancient Red is worth 36,500 XP.... Where did you get 62,000 from? I got mine from the Red Dragon statbar on page 97.

I'm getting mine off of DMG page 275's XP by CR table.

CR 20: 25,000 XP
CR 21: 33,000 XP
CR 22: 41,000 XP
CR 23: 50,000 XP
CR 24: 62,000 XP

You're right though, the MM entry for ancient reds is messed up and grants only a little over more than half XP. Personally I would consider it a bug if a CR 24 ancient red (36,500) is worth less than a CR 23 kraken (50,000), but it's your prerogative to pick which value to use. I'll be sticking with the DMG table.

[Blacky the Blackball]

Proceed to possess the farmer, and then take your new soul-jar and set it amongst the feathers and adamantine. Cast Fabricate to make a simple protective shell of feather lined adamantine around your gem. Congratulations. Your soul jar is now impervious to most common forms of attack, as well as the shell blocking line of effect, preventing opponents from dispelling the spell.

This didn't work for Koschei the Deathless...

[kaoskonfety]

I'm getting mine off of DMG page 275's XP by CR table.

CR 20: 25,000 XP
CR 21: 33,000 XP
CR 22: 41,000 XP
CR 23: 50,000 XP
CR 24: 62,000 XP

You're right though, the MM entry for ancient reds is messed up and grants only a little over more than half XP. Personally I would consider it a bug if a CR 24 ancient red (36,500) is worth less than a CR 23 kraken (50,000), but it's your prerogative to pick which value to use. I'll be sticking with the DMG table.

Typos in the MM, they are what's for dinner.

[EKruze]

Bard might take Contingency and Magic Jar with their secrets. Then Contingency Raise Dead for protection against the failed save.