Grig

[LordOfCain]

What are your opinions on the grig. DnD 3.5 MM under sprites. As a player race.

[PallentisLunam]

How do you mean? They have all of the required information to be played so the only question would be does playing a grig fit in with the setting you're playing in which I don't think we can answer for you.

The pixie has an increased level adjustment for being able to cast irresistible dance but the DC on a grig's is never going to be much of a concern although it does effect every nonsprite (allies and enemies) within 30 ft so I might consider changing the +3 LA for that. Other than that seems perfectly reasonable in the right campaign

[Bronk]

There's nothing wrong with them exactly, except that the sizes for the sprites are a bit messed up... judging by the picture, grigs should be diminutive, since they're basically cricket-centaurs. I'm sure they'd make great rogues.

[xyianth]

+3 LA is an awful lot to pay for some stat bonuses and tiny size, in my opinion. The fiddle ability is hardly a threat, and is just as likely to screw your allies as it is to hit your enemies. The SLAs are almost entirely forgettable after the first few levels. I suppose it could work for a dex focused martial character, but the LA would cripple a caster. If you are worried about it breaking anything, I don't think that is really a concern. As with most monstrous races in 3.5, it would be attractive in the early levels, but wouldn't really scale well.

[PallentisLunam]

There's nothing wrong with them exactly, except that the sizes for the sprites are a bit messed up... judging by the picture, grigs should be diminutive, since they're basically cricket-centaurs. I'm sure they'd make great rogues.

Umm, if a nixie is 4 ft tall and a pixie is 2 and a half then the grig in the picture is just about right, if anything they're a little big.


+3 LA is an awful lot to pay for some stat bonuses and tiny size, in my opinion. The fiddle ability is hardly a threat, and is just as likely to screw your allies as it is to hit your enemies. The SLAs are almost entirely forgettable after the first few levels. I suppose it could work for a dex focused martial character, but the LA would cripple a caster. If you are worried about it breaking anything, I don't think that is really a concern. As with most monstrous races in 3.5, it would be attractive in the early levels, but wouldn't really scale well.

If the rest of the party are playing sprites as well, unlikely but possible, it might be worth fiddling with the LA. Sorry couldn't resist.

The SLA's aren't going to be very useful as direct combat spells no but then none of them are exactly iconic blasting spells anyways. Used tactically they'll never become obsolete. Disguise self is kinda useless for the grig because you can't change body types and as far as I know nothing else looks like a grig so yeah there's that one but the others are useful. Entangle will always at least halve your enemy's speed and unless you are on the elemental plane of air (or somewhere similar) there should usually be plants nearby. invisibility never gets old and it's even more useful if you aren't using it to simply get a bonus to one attack. Pyrotechnics can effectively blind everyone within 20 ft of a fire with no save so, that's never going to be useless.

I'm not saying that the mechanics should necessarily be changed but a crafty player could get a lot of mileage out of the SLAs at any level. As long as you're not looking to optimize super hard, which if you're looking to play a monstrous race then let's face it you're not, it could be lots of fun.

[Bronk]

Umm, if a nixie is 4 ft tall and a pixie is 2 and a half then the grig in the picture is just about right, if anything they're a little big.

Except that the Nixie is waist deep in water, so we're only seeing two feet of it, and is in the background, so would seem even larger.

[PallentisLunam]

Except that the Nixie is waist deep in water, so we're only seeing two feet of it, and is in the background, so would seem even larger.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG235.jpg

The nixie is only a little bit behind the pixie and the grig. And the blue line in the background is the horizon, not necessarily the level of the water where the three subjects are. If the nixie is standing on the same ground that the bag is resting on then the scales are correct.

[Bronk]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG235.jpg

The nixie is only a little bit behind the pixie and the grig. And the blue line in the background is the horizon, not necessarily the level of the water where the three subjects are. If the nixie is standing on the same ground that the bag is resting on then the scales are correct.

That's the picture. After looking at it more closely, I still think there's a size discrepancy (again, not a big deal, just weird).

I do think the blue is water, which makes sense for the nixie, and she's peering through reeds or grass on the shore, looking at the grig and the pixie. She's at least a couple of feet back, because her arms are outstretched, and her hands, which are still behind the two in the foreground, are as big as their torsos.

I did notice something else that I've never seen before... she's kneeling in the water, not standing in it, and you can actually see her leg and foot going away from her to the right, meaning she's not crotch deep in the water, instead the bag is hiding her crotch. Still, it's just a weird picture, and it doesn't match up right with the description, which has always bothered me. I mean, that wee grig, no matter what size it might be, is 1 pound. Right next to him, the spindly little pixie right next to him is 30 pounds? And the giant nixie behind them both is only 45 pounds? Weird.

They did the same thing in MM3, with the petal and the shimmerling swarm description and art. The petal is supposed to be tiny, 1.5 feet tall and weigh 3 pounds, but it's art shows it about the same size as a dandelion seed. The shimmerling swarm kind of matches it's description of a 4 inch tall humanoid shape, but it's supposed to be fine!

As for the grig, I agree that the +3LA would be pretty rough on a character concept.

[LordOfCain]

How good/bad is a pixie (without Otto's Irresistible Dance)

[LordOfCain]

This character is supposed to be played in a level 5 campaign as a rogue. I was thinking grig due to Tiny size but pixie has invisibility. Which is better?

[Inevitability]

This character is supposed to be played in a level 5 campaign as a rogue. I was thinking grig due to Tiny size but pixie has invisibility. Which is better?

Well, to be honest, a pixie will probably have a hard time at 5th level. Any area effect will probably take you out, and you can do very little about it. At higher levels, (improved) evasion and a better HP/monster damage ratio will make live somewhat easier, but expect to go down a lot at first. I'd stay as far away from combat as possible if I were you.

As for which one is better; the grig can be played at ECL 4, the pixie at ECL 5. However, while an extra rogue level is nice, I say the pixie's spell-like abilities and invisibility win here.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Much better than the grig. It has more useful stat mods and permanent greater invisibility goes a long way towards keeping you alive when things turn ugly.

[Bronk]

Oh yeah, the pixie is the quintessential rogue, what with the flight and greater invisibility. It can hang out in the air, out of the way of wayward melee strikes, continuously sneak attacking with a bow and arrow. It would be a bit weak in a fifth level game with only 1HD to start, but it would be hard to find, hit, target with a bow, and it has a fair bit of spell resistance too.

There's no explanation for where they might get their sleep arrows though, or where to get more of them when they run out, so you might not want to factor those in.

[bekeleven]

So, Grig:
Tiny
-6 STR +8 DEX +2 CON +2 WIS +4 CHA
20 Fly 40 (P)
+2 Natural Armor, DR 5, Low-Light Vision
SR 17 (we can infer it's 17+Class Levels, but since there is no "grigs as characters" block it's stuck at 17)
Dodge, Weapon Finesse
Invisibility, Pyrotechnics and Entangle 3/Day, Cl9
Scaling fiddle AoE lockdown.

Verdict? Not worth +3 LA, but fun. Playable if there aren't many AoE effects (especially if the spell resistance scales) or at higher levels if LA can be bought off.