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juggalotis
2007-06-06, 11:45 AM
i am still very new to the game and just made my first character. a chaotic evil rogue. with so many different skill not to mention skill points the seem insanely versatile. i just curious to start a thread for current and former rogue users.
so people what did you find the most effective skills/feats were for your rogue and why?

TheDon
2007-06-06, 11:57 AM
Depends on the type of rogue you want to play.

However generic rogue usualy tend to have hide/move silently, listen, spot, search (for trap finding), disable device (to disable said traps), tumble is very usefull to get into position and flank someone, use magic device also useless, nothing funnier then a rogue wielding Casomir, and allows you to use scrolls to cast spells. Appraise can also be usefull to up the money intake depending on the DM you play with.

It's realy all up to you, skills may vary depending if you're aiming for a PrC with skill requirements. Skills may also differ if you're aiming for a more thugish rogue.

Human Paragon 3
2007-06-06, 12:07 PM
Depends on the type of rogue you want to play.

... tumble is very usefull to get into position and flank someone, use magic device also useless, ...

I think you meant useFUL

Daedo daShoegod
2007-06-06, 12:14 PM
Bluff is a good skill if you wish to invest in Improved feinting, not to mention lying to the town gaurd :smallbiggrin: , I enjoy two-weapon fighting rogues or swashbucklers/rogue multiclasses and I tend to have max ranks in Hide, Move Silently and Tumble when I play a Rogue.

SpiderBrigade
2007-06-06, 12:17 PM
Also depends on the campaign. A lengthy hack-n-slash dungeon crawl, you'll want trap skills and such. If it's going to be taking place in the civilized world with intrigue, you need social skills and maybe some social feats.

Put it this way, you really don't want to take Suave McSmooth with his +30 diplomacy checks into the Tomb of Horrors. You can't talk your way out of DC 25 Reflex save vs. Death.

Droodle
2007-06-06, 12:26 PM
Put it this way, you really don't want to take Suave McSmooth with his +30 diplomacy checks into the Tomb of Horrors. You can't talk your way out of DC 25 Reflex save vs. Death.Unless you also happen to be skilled in diplomacy in real life or slip the DM a 20.

TheAlmightyOne
2007-06-06, 01:00 PM
Well I multiclassed to wizard pretty early on. Being a rogue with the open portal spell kind of defeats the purpose though. I mainly did it so I could rob people and if they noticed I could use 4 words. 'flaming hand sneak attack!' then sit back and watch them burn.

juggalotis
2007-06-06, 03:10 PM
i like the differentials. a rogue wizard touch spells for a sneak attack, and a swashbuckler rogue thats even fun to say. interesting. thats what i was hoping for. different ways people use their rogues not advice on how to make one. mine is focusing on stealth and using sneak attacts while dual wielding weapons. and stealing things. lol

ArmorArmadillo
2007-06-06, 04:34 PM
From a pure power standpoint.
Use Magic Device is one to max out, it's one of the rogue's trademarks.

Hide and Move Silently seem better than they are, you're sneak attacking is going to be more from flanking than sneaking. Just how it is.

Keep Disable Device maxed, but don't go crazy with Open Lock. You can take 20 with open lock, but D-Device requires bigger, more important checks.

Knowledge (Local) is mild omniscience, you have to really see all the things this covers over time to really get the idea of how great this is.

Put a point in Swim and Climb at the least, if not more. Having at least one let's you take 10 if you want to, and you have the points to spare.

Invest heavily in Tumble and Sleight of Hand, you want to get to the point where you can succeed automatically.

Max out Bluff, it's a useful skill for rogues and gives you lots of synergies. Also invest in Diplomacy and Gather Information. You don't, however, need Bluff, Diplomacy, and intimidate.

Put 5 ranks at least in Jump, it's useful and gives you synergies in tumble.

Search is important, it just is.


The thing with skills, is that a lot of them, like climb, jump, and open lock, can be made irrelevant by spells, but others, like bluff, diplomacy, and sleight of hand can't; focus on the latter.

the_tick_rules
2007-06-06, 06:00 PM
hide, move silently, tumble, bluff, sense motive, disable device, open lock, listen, spot and search are all excellent choices.

greenknight
2007-06-06, 06:58 PM
I tend to play a Human Rogue, because of the extra skill points. I know, Rogues get lots already, but it never seems to be enough. The two signature abilities Rogues have are their high skill points per level, and sneak attack. Here's my opinion:

Appraise is often overlooked, but it's a good skill for a Rogue. No point having all that treasure if you can't sell it for a good price. 10 ranks is probably all you'll need though.

Bluff is nice, especially for Feinting in combat, but you can use magic to get a similar result so my advice is don't go nuts on this skill - 5 to 8 ranks is probably all you'll ever need.

Climb comes in handy at lower levels, but the need for it is almost completely negated at higher levels by magical items which allow you to fly. Worth spending a few skill points on, but don't max it.

Diplomacy can be good for a Rogue, but generally it's better to let the party Cleric (or Druid) specialize in it. Still, if no one else has maxed their Diplomacy skill, you should.

Disable Device is one of the Rogue's "must have" skills. Max it out since Rogue is the only one of the Core classes which can reliably find traps.

Disguise is situational, and can usually be covered by magic. Still, it can be worth having at least 5 ranks in it if you don't want your character to become too well-known.

Escape Artist is worse than it looks - magical items generally do a much better job. If you've got a few skill points to spare, put them here but otherwise don't bother.

Gather Information can be good, but it might make people suspicious of you, so if you do this, make sure you're in disguise and can get away from any trouble that develops.

Hide / Move Silently are good for scouting and surprising foes, but beware of monsters with good spot / listen checks (common at higher levels). It's sometimes a tough call whether these skills are worthwhile, because if you are detected while scouting, it's sometimes hard to survive.

Knowledge (Local) can either be very good or nearly useless, depending on the campaign and your DM. If you're interested in it, I suggest you check with your DM to see whether your character will be travelling a lot, in which case you probably shouldn't bother.

Listen is probably the best detection skill available to you, since it should give you a chance to hear invisible foes. Max it out.

Open Lock is another useful skill, but if your Rogue is developing Dexterity (which is normally the case) you probably don't need more than 5 ranks in it, especially since there are plenty of other ways to get around a lock.

Search is another key skill for a Rogue, although magic can make this less necessary. Still, my advice is to keep Search maxed out.

Sense Motive can be a good skill, but not one you should really focus on. 5 - 10 ranks should be enough here.

Slight of Hand is one of those skills you either use a lot, or don't use at all. If you're one of the former, max it out, otherwise don't bother with it.

It might be worthwhile having 5 ranks in Swim and Use Rope, more if you know you'll use them a lot (eg, an underwater campaign). But normally these aren't a high priority.

Tumble is one of those nice skills that you just don't need many ranks in, especially if you're developing Dexterity. 5 - 10 ranks is probably all you'll ever need here.

Use Magic Device is something you shouldn't mess with a lower levels, but once you get to level 10+ it's worth maxing out - if your DM gives you enough magical items to use it on. Start off with Wands, and move on to Scrolls as your ability increases.

The second thing your Rogue will be good at is sneak attacks, especially if you concentrate on two weapon fighting and take Opportunist when you can. Just keep in mind that while you have the potential to do a lot of damage very quickly, you don't have a good BAB or hitpoints, and there are many creatures which are immune to your sneak attack. Still, if you want to make the most of it, I recommend you take Weapon Finesse and the Two Weapon chain of Feats. Dodge and Combat Expertise can help you survive a little longer, especially since you'll have to go into melee to get most of your sneak attacks.

If your DM allows it, the best PrC for a Sneak Attacking Rogue is Invisible Blade from Complete Warrior. Yes, you'll need to use a Dagger (or Kukri), but most of your damage is coming from the sneak attack anyway. Have someone cast Improved Invisibility on you (or UMD a Wand) to make it easier to qualify for the PrC.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-06-07, 09:06 AM
If you're going to use hide and move silently, you need to keep your skill ranks in them maxed at all times. For some reason, WotC likes to give their monsters really high ranks in spot and listen. Aggravating, but some meager magic items and maxed out ranks can keep you from being caught. The utility of hide and move silently isn't in getting sneak attacks, usually. It's in avoiding combat altogether.

Spot and Listen are decent to have. Knowing where everything is can keep you from getting attacked out of nowhere. Your d6 hit dice will thank you for it.

Use Rope is only useful in the first handful of levels typically. And even then, you can usually live without it. Avoid it.

As a rogue, it's usually a great idea to get as many skillpoints as possible per level so that you can specialize in more skills. Your combat skills are all dependant on sneak attacks as it is, so don't expect to be a front line fighter unless you have a death wish or have a great healer at your back. Never, ever, ever attack anything in melee that you won't get consecutive sneak attacks on. You are extremely squishy with low AC and HP. Whatever you hit needs to die ASAP, or you just don't hit it. Even if you like melee, carry around a ranged weapon as a backup so you can still help in big fights. Scrolls and wands are your best friends thanks to UMD.

TheAlmightyOne
2007-06-07, 10:24 AM
mine is focusing on stealth and using sneak attacts while dual wielding weapons. and stealing things. lol

yes. always with the stealing. stealing makes everything better.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-06-07, 10:31 AM
Stealing is a deceptively excellent way to make a powerful rogue. You can get several times your WBL if you're good at it, giving you access to magic devices that might even put the party's appropriately leveled wizard to shame. And encounters with foes that are missing their spellbooks, weapons, healing potions, scrolls, etc. etc. are vastly easier to handle.

Just remember not to get too greedy, or you'll end up in over your head ;)

Rasumichin
2007-06-07, 11:05 AM
As was mentioned before, certain skills might be needed as requirements for prestige classes.
If you are going to become an assasin (a likely choice, given the alignment of your PC), you will need 4 ranks in disguise (plus 8 ranks in hide and move silently, but it seems as if you're going to max these out anyway).
Not a bad choice, the poison use ability of the assasin is definitely useful when it comes to taking down your enemies with one full attack.


Perform (dance) 5 is required for the shadowdancer PrC, which offers some really nifty abilities (like teleporting from shadow to shadow or hide in plain sight) for anyone interested in sneaking around and stealing stuff.

elliott20
2007-06-07, 11:34 AM
yes. always with the stealing. stealing makes everything better.

You know what makes candy taste so good? the sugar. you know what makes it even better? when it is covered in the tears of the child you just stole it from.

juggalotis
2007-06-07, 05:15 PM
i agree child tears make me smile

juggalotis
2007-06-07, 05:16 PM
also what book describes the shadowdancer and assassin prestiges?

Droodle
2007-06-07, 05:20 PM
Actually, they are both in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm).

juggalotis
2007-06-07, 05:22 PM
thanks droodle.