Holy gish help

[Nosta]

I plan on joining a campain with a new group. It is gestalt game starting at level 10 and my goal is a holy gish. For the caster half i was thinking cleric with the spell domain to get wraith strike & take devine meta magic with persisent spell. My question is what should be my other class point buy 46. I,m not to sure were to go from here. All books allowed & dragon magazine. Can some one give me a few ideas on how to build this guy?

[Rakoa]

Well, with Cleric as your main base, you really have Holy Gish covered already. Pop up that Divine Power Persisted and you've got a boosted Strength, full BAB, and maybe add on Righteous Might for further boosts. You're a Divine Gish, done. Outside of that, what else could you go with? Rogue would boost up your Reflex save, let you find traps, and give you more skills than you know what to do with, which will make you very well-rounded and versatile, and if you can get some flanking off the Sneak Attack will help your damage. Fighter could work, too, removing some of the need for Divine Power, bumping up your HD, and granting you a bunch of bonus feats to help you in melee.

If you don't mind being a bit MAD, and you can afford to do is with that level of point buy, Dusk Blade is already a Gish. Take that on one side and you can use your Cleric spells for buffing yourself, and Duskblade spells and class features for laying on the pain.

[Nosta]

Well, with Cleric as your main base, you really have Holy Gish covered already. Pop up that Divine Power Persisted and you've got a boosted Strength, full BAB, and maybe add on Righteous Might for further boosts. You're a Divine Gish, done. Outside of that, what else could you go with? Rogue would boost up your Reflex save, let you find traps, and give you more skills than you know what to do with, which will make you very well-rounded and versatile, and if you can get some flanking off the Sneak Attack will help your damage. Fighter could work, too, removing some of the need for Divine Power, bumping up your HD, and granting you a bunch of bonus feats to help you in melee.

If you don't mind being a bit MAD, and you can afford to do is with that level of point buy, Dusk Blade is already a Gish. Take that on one side and you can use your Cleric spells for buffing yourself, and Duskblade spells and class features for laying on the pain.

Well i would go duskblade. I played one for 8 months and am a tad tired of it.

[Nosta]

I was thinking crusader or rogue and take the alternative class feature were you trade sneak attack for feats:-)

[Rakoa]

I was thinking crusader or rogue and take the alternative class feature were you trade sneak attack for feats:-)

I didn't think of Crusader. That'd be an excellent choice. Boosted HD, maneuvers that can heal you, class features that keep you very, very alive...you could do very well with Crusader//Cleric. Flavourful, too.

[Nosta]

I didn't think of Crusader. That'd be an excellent choice. Boosted HD, maneuvers that can heal you, class features that keep you very, very alive...you could do very well with Crusader//Cleric. Flavourful, too.

Now i must ask what feats would be good for this build?

[PseudoPanda]

Swordsage would work good too, the Wisdom synergy is better than the Crusader's Charisma synergy and it can give you good mobility and out of combat options. In Gestalt you're usually good to take the Cloistered Cleric option from Unearthed Arcana since everything you'd trade away (HD, BAB, proficiencies) would be covered by the other side of the build and you get an expanded spell list, skills and a domain (or the knowledge devotion feat).

With wraithstrike you're super likely to hit so power attack is a prime pick and if you can fit in leap attack then even better. Crusaders typically want AoO shenanigans with Thicket of Blades to control the battlefield. Combat reflexes combined with something like stand still or improved trip is what you'll usually see but you might not have the feats to spare

[Rakoa]

Swordsage would work good too, the Wisdom synergy is better than the Crusader's Charisma synergy and it can give you good mobility and out of combat options. In Gestalt you're usually good to take the Cloistered Cleric option from Unearthed Arcana since everything you'd trade away (HD, BAB, proficiencies) would be covered by the other side of the build and you get an expanded spell list, skills and a domain (or the knowledge devotion feat).

With wraithstrike you're super likely to hit so power attack is a prime pick and if you can fit in leap attack then even better. Crusaders typically want AoO shenanigans with Thicket of Blades to control the battlefield. Combat reflexes combined with something like stand still or improved trip is what you'll usually see but you might not have the feats to spare

Agreed on Cloistered Cleric, but I can't agree with Swordsage. The higher BAB and HD on Crusader will be better for this build, especially since he'll be using DMM:Persist, he's gonna have enough Charisma for the synergy to work out.

As for feats, PseudoPanda has handled the damage aspect. But considering your mentions of DMM, most of your feats are already spoken for. Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persistent Spell, and probably a bunch of Extra Turning feats (unless you can swing Nightsticks). From there, absolutely Power Attack and Leap Attack. Shocktrooper if you can swing it.

[PseudoPanda]

Agreed on Cloistered Cleric, but I can't agree with Swordsage. The higher BAB and HD on Crusader will be better for this build, especially since he'll be using DMM:Persist, he's gonna have enough Charisma for the synergy to work out.


BAB is negated by Divine Power and the difference between a d8 and d10 is 1 hp per level, since a melee cleric will have a good amount of CON boosts and temp HP that's pretty negligible. Swordsage gives you better reflex saves, skills to be more scout-like if you wish, Wis to AC in light armor (your wisdom should be decently high even if you aren't focusing on DCs and such), and more useful maneuvers such as the shadow jaunt line. Crusader's edge is Devoted spirit stances (between SS and cleric you can make up the maneuvers), White raven maneuvers (action economy abuse) and maneuver recovery (but with the cleric's power you're fine full attacking instead of using maneuvers). In the end they're both good and a two level dip into either while going the full way with the other one is a good idea.

I know we've been talking feats and classes but as for race I'm going to throw in Illumian as a race option. You're out of the human's bonus feat but if you take the Krau and Ash sigils you get the Aeshkrau power word which makes your bonus spells based on STR, very nice on a DMM: Persist Cleric

[morkendi]

Cleric is powerful out of the box, so things that build on this chassis is what to look for. Paladin stacks with the charisma and makes it viable for other things. Divine grace is nice bonus to saves. Dip pally for that than go into warrior for bonus feats. depending on your dm, pally 4 would give you a second turning pool for DMM. Cleric//psion(egoist) will let you abuse action economy. You generally want things that stack and work together in gestalt. To me, playing things like cleric//wizard for example are not optimal as you can only basically be one in a combat round.

[MisterKaws]

Go Druid, instead of CoDzilla you can just go CaDzilla.

[morkendi]

I played a gish cleric gestalt before. It went to about level 12. Cleric 12// Cobra strike monk 2 / pally 2/ fighter 2/ dervish 6.

Feats were weapon focus unarmed strike, combat expertise, versatile unarmed strike, combat reflexes, elusive target, superior unarmed strike, improved natural attack, flay foe, sacred vow, vow of poverty, kai strike, sanctify kai strike, holy kai strike.

Cobra strike gives what is need for dervish and elusive target. versatile unarmed strike lets you change your damage to slashing to use for dervish. Buff up with cleric spells, and now you can full move and flurry with a decent chance of hitting.

you could easily drop some feats and get DMM.

[Ellowryn]

If everything is on the table look at swinging the Saint template from BoED. Yeah the 2 LA are harsh but totally worth it and is the kind of flavor you are looking for. Crusader is indeed good for the other side but do note that most maneuvers replace your full round attack routine so BaB isn't that important (especially if you are cheesing in wraithstrike).

You might also want to swing 3 levels in Hexblade for easy mettle (your will and fort saves are going to be good anyways), but that depends on how you want to swing alignment issues.

Also, seeing as you are going to DMM:persist shenanigans then i recommend taking the Rebuke Dragons AFC from dragon magic and then grabbing Sacred Exorcist from CD so you can have 2 turn pools (they explicitly count as separate pools but still count as turn undead for feats and abilities). This will double the number of stuff you can persist.

[Rakoa]

You might also want to swing 3 levels in Hexblade for easy mettle (your will and fort saves are going to be good anyways), but that depends on how you want to swing alignment issues.


Crusader will grant Mettle in a couple levels. Otherwise, agreed completely.

[ZamielVanWeber]

If everything is on the table look at swinging the Saint template from BoED. Yeah the 2 LA are harsh but totally worth it and is the kind of flavor you are looking for. Crusader is indeed good for the other side but do note that most maneuvers replace your full round attack routine so BaB isn't that important (especially if you are cheesing in wraithstrike).

Saint is an extremely strong template but be aware that it will devour your feat slots.

[Ellowryn]

Saint is an extremely strong template but be aware that it will devour your feat slots.

Ack, i always forget about that because the prerequisite is in a different chapter. Still there are some decent exalted feats and if they have two turn pools to pull from then they can stand to lose a couple of extra turning feats.

[Nosta]

I'm highly considering taking levels In paladin and using some Alt class features with the saint temp getting it for free

[ZamielVanWeber]

I'm highly considering taking levels In paladin and using some Alt class features with the saint temp getting it for free

If you like fluff rich the Saint template will serve you well. If you like mechanical power the Saint template is extremely good for +2. The only reason I do not take it often is that a DM often becomes wary in the face of all it gives.