Feats for a Changeling Chameleon?

[Cerefel]

Currently trying to figure out a build for a chameleon build and I'm fairly stumped for feats. The level breakdown is probably going to be something like:

Rogue 2
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 3
Chameleon 10
Rogue +1
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter +4

Although this can very easily be changed.

The only feats I can really think of taking for sure are Able Learner, Craven, Improved Initiative, and Persona Immersion and I would definitely appreciate more good options to fill out the build.

Oh, and I would like to avoid taking levels in factotum.

[Rubik]

Currently trying to figure out a build for a chameleon build and I'm fairly stumped for feats. The level breakdown is probably going to be something like:

Rogue 2
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 3
Chameleon 10
Rogue +1
Sneak Attack Thug Fighter +4

Although this can very easily be changed.

The only feats I can really think of taking for sure are Able Learner, Craven, Improved Initiative, and Persona Immersion and I would definitely appreciate more good options to fill out the build.

Oh, and I would like to avoid taking levels in factotum.Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation) and Master of Poisons could be a good start. Make your own poison for 2 hours a day and apply all those doses to your weapons? Sounds good to me.

How about Wild Cohort? Get an animal companion to flank with.

How about two levels in swordsage so you can nab Assassin's Stance? Then you can take Shadow Blade to add +Dex to damage.

[stanprollyright]

I'd say ditch the Thug Fighter and go straight Rogue...more skill points, Uncanny Dodge, and Trap Sense can be traded out for Penetrating Strike. If you want more Sneak Attack, get Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance) for +2d6.

As far as good feats, definitely get Darkstalker.

After your Chameleon levels are over, you could dip into Mindbender PrC and take Mindsight for free telepathy and super detection abilities. Otherwise, a sneak attacking PrC is probably better than straight Rogue. Assassin comes to mind, though there are others just as good.

It might be fun to take feats like Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed because they're prereqs for a lot of things that you can get with your floating feat.

[Cerefel]

I'd say ditch the Thug Fighter and go straight Rogue...more skill points, Uncanny Dodge, and Trap Sense can be traded out for Penetrating Strike. If you want more Sneak Attack, get Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance) for +2d6.

As far as good feats, definitely get Darkstalker.

After your Chameleon levels are over, you could dip into Mindbender PrC and take Mindsight for free telepathy and super detection abilities. Otherwise, a sneak attacking PrC is probably better than straight Rogue. Assassin comes to mind, though there are others just as good.

It might be fun to take feats like Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed because they're prereqs for a lot of things that you can get with your floating feat.

I was mainly thinking SA Thug because it gives good BAB while still advancing Sneak Attack.

[Troacctid]

You can get the same BAB by going Rogue 4/Fighter 1. The one-level dip can get you the Hit and Run variant from Drow of the Underdark, which is good on dexterous types, and you get better skill points and class features out of the Rogue levels.

[stanprollyright]

I was mainly thinking SA Thug because it gives good BAB while still advancing Sneak Attack.

You only gain +1 BAB prior to entering Chameleon, but you lose out on a ton of skill points, Uncanny Dodge, and Penetrating Strike (which is really important; it allows you to Sneak Attack creatures normally immune for 1/2 damage). I suppose you could go Rogue 4/Thug 1 to get that point of BAB back without losing anything other than 6 skill points. After Chameleon, BAB won't matter because you can cast Divine Power.


You can get the same BAB by going Rogue 4/Fighter 1. The one-level dip can get you the Hit and Run variant from Drow of the Underdark, which is good on dexterous types, and you get better skill points and class features out of the Rogue levels.

Ninja'd. Yeah, what Troacctid said.

[Cerefel]

What's the general consensus on taking the changeling rogue substitution levels?

[Troacctid]

They're great.

Edit: Although the 3rd level one is less great since it precludes Penetrating Strike.

[Rubik]

What's the general consensus on taking the changeling rogue substitution levels?They're really good, and you should take them if you get the chance to do so.

[Cerefel]

What makes them so good compared to the normal rogue levels?

[Rubik]

What makes them so good compared to the normal rogue levels?Taking the changeling rogue sub-level at first level gets you 8 more skill points than usual, and you also get skill mastery with ALL social skills. Each skill mastery is worth a rogue special ability, and you usually don't get those until the second half of the game.

And that's just the first level.

[stanprollyright]

What's the general consensus on taking the changeling rogue substitution levels?

DO IT! For reasons Rubik said. The 3rd level ability is nice, but Penetrating Strike is much better.

[Cerefel]

So for PrCs after Chameleon, I think I like Cabinet Trickster more than Mindbender, but I would like some input about that and other options.

[Tiri]

There's not much point taking Mindbender past it's first level, so you could just take that and then go into Cabinet Trickster. How were you planning on qualifying for Mindbender, though?

[Cerefel]

There's not much point taking Mindbender past it's first level, so you could just take that and then go into Cabinet Trickster. How were you planning on qualifying for Mindbender, though?

Mindbender was an earlier suggestion, but having to qualify via Chameleon casting is sketchy at best, which was one of the reasons I prefer Cabinet Trickster.

[Chronos]

Qualifying for anything via chameleon casting is beyond sketchy, it's straight-out forbidden. You could qualify via factotum, which is probably what stanprollyright was thinking of, but the OP said he wanted to avoid factotum.

[Cerefel]

So what would be some other PrCs that would add to the build? Cabinet trickster is pretty good, but it doesn't really add a ton of versatility to the build or even mesh all that well as far as I can see.
Would Spymaster help anything or is that already covered by Persona Immersion?

[Nifft]

Rogue 4 / Cloistered Cleric 1 could open up Mindbender 1 for Telepathy, plus three Domains (or two Domains and a feat). You'd need to get some way of casting Arcane spells with your Cleric (e.g. Southern Magician), plus Practiced Spellcaster, and a way to get charm person.

You want a level of a real caster class anyway (plus Practiced Spellcaster) for downtime crafting with your Chameleon floating feat & spells.

Alternately, you could ignore Mindbender -- Telepathy is sweet, but not strictly necessary.

[Rubik]

Uncanny trickster or legacy champion? Get more levels in chameleon.

[Cerefel]

Rogue 4 / Cloistered Cleric 1 could open up Mindbender 1 for Telepathy, plus three Domains (or two Domains and a feat). You'd need to get some way of casting Arcane spells with your Cleric (e.g. Southern Magician), plus Practiced Spellcaster, and a way to get charm person.

You want a level of a real caster class anyway (plus Practiced Spellcaster) for downtime crafting with your Chameleon floating feat & spells.

Alternately, you could ignore Mindbender -- Telepathy is sweet, but not strictly necessary.

Yeah, I'm not too worried about getting into Mindbender. I can always just cast Telepathic Bond if I really need to.

I would definitely still like more opinions on other PrCs

[Rubik]

If my previous post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20134148&postcount=19) doesn't do it for you, you could try for something a bit more martial. Swordsage could do it, or you could hit up war mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm). (Geddit?) Sweeping strike is a pretty nice capstone.

[stanprollyright]

Do changelings qualify for Warshaper?

[Ellowryn]

Do changelings qualify for Warshaper?

Arguably yes. Of course asking that question is probably going to lead this thread to descending into a flaming ball of hate.

[stanprollyright]

Arguably yes. Of course asking that question is probably going to lead this thread to descending into a flaming ball of hate.

Please sir, I don't mean to start no trubble!

[Cerefel]

Uncanny trickster or legacy champion? Get more levels in chameleon.

I've considered it, but when I read the class with that in mind I noticed that most of the features don't scale with Chameleon level.

[Rubik]

I've considered it, but when I read the class with that in mind I noticed that most of the features don't scale with Chameleon level.There's an indisputable pattern to them, though. "every 3 levels," "every 4 levels," "every 5 levels," and "easily extrapolated spellcasting" seem to be the order of the day, here.

[Cerefel]

There's an indisputable pattern to them, though. "every 3 levels," "every 4 levels," "every 5 levels," and "easily extrapolated spellcasting" seem to be the order of the day, here.

There are patterns, but the text for Chameleon never explicitly says 'every ___ levels' so it's unfortunately subject to DM nitpicking.

EDIT: I suppose that came off pretty negative. It's a good suggestion, but somewhat of a RAW gray area without a permissive DM.

[Troacctid]

Arguably yes. Of course asking that question is probably going to lead this thread to descending into a flaming ball of hate.

What's arguable? Are there people who argue that changelings don't have the shapechanger subtype? Or are they arguing that changelings can't get +4 BAB? Because both of those arguments seem obviously wrong.

[zergling.exe]

What's arguable? Are there people who argue that changelings don't have the shapechanger subtype? Or are they arguing that changelings can't get +4 BAB? Because both of those arguments seem obviously wrong.

It would probably be more the "a form other than their own" bit, combined with being based off of disguise self rather than alter self or some other form change.

[Rubik]

It would probably be more the "a form other than their own" bit, combined with being based off of disguise self rather than alter self or some other form change.Except the changeling ability actually changes its body to another form. It's Alter Self without any special abilities granted due to the new form.

[Ellowryn]

Please sir, I don't mean to start no trubble!

See? Too late! :smalltongue: Anyways, i would also recommend grabbing some swordsage levels because while cabinet trickster is cool as you pointed out it doesn't really do much for your build.

[zergling.exe]

Except the changeling ability actually changes its body to another form. It's Alter Self without any special abilities granted due to the new form.

Except that it is disguise self with actual physical changes, rather than alter self without abilities.

Changelings have the supernatural ability to alter their appearance as though using a disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not their possessions.
There is a difference, and because of that some DMs may believe that changelings do not qualify as being in a form that is not their own. For the record, I'm not saying that changelings do not, merely trying to point out the reasoning to Troacctid about why they may not, depending on DM view.

[stanprollyright]

Damnit, I really didn't mean to start anything. I just thought "hey, changelings can change form in some way or they wouldn't be called changelings...warshaper is a great PrC for somebody that changes forms. I wonder if they qualify, and if so, would that be a good addition to this build?"

[Ellowryn]

The road to flame war hell on the internet is paved with innocent questions.

[Cerefel]

The road to flame war hell on the internet is paved with innocent questions.

May I sig this?

[Rubik]

Except that it is disguise self with actual physical changes, rather than alter self without abilities.There is only one question that you have to ask to see if changelings qualify: Does your body change into a different form?

The answer is unequivocably "yes." Any answer that is not "yes" is demonstrably wrong.

[Troacctid]

Damnit, I really didn't mean to start anything. I just thought "hey, changelings can change form in some way or they wouldn't be called changelings...warshaper is a great PrC for somebody that changes forms. I wonder if they qualify, and if so, would that be a good addition to this build?"

Yes and yes.

I really don't see what Ellowryn is on about, talking like it's controversial. There is no ambiguity in either the rules or the fluff. You have the shapechanger subtype, so you qualify. You're in a form other than your natural form, so you gain the abilities at all times. It's about as controversial as using the wild shape Ranger variant to qualify for Master of Many Forms, which is to say, not at all controversial.

I guess if you believed that changelings have no natural form, you might think it doesn't work, because any form they take would count as their "natural form." But of course, that would require you to be ignorant of changeling biology, since, as a matter of fact, they do explicitly have a natural form.

[zergling.exe]

Yes and yes.

I really don't see what Ellowryn is on about, talking like it's controversial. There is no ambiguity in either the rules or the fluff. You have the shapechanger subtype, so you qualify. You're in a form other than your natural form, so you gain the abilities at all times. It's about as controversial as using the wild shape Ranger variant to qualify for Master of Many Forms, which is to say, not at all controversial.

Anyone wanting to argue about it, I made a thread for it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?466395-Changelings-and-Warshaper)

[Cerefel]

Now that that's resolved, I would like to get back on the topic of my chameleon build. So far, suggestions for adding versatility to it ategame include Legacy Champion and Swordsage, but what would be some other options to work with?

[Troacctid]

Warshaper is decent, as mentioned. Incarnate and/or Totemist would be solid. The Half-Fey (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) template class scales with your HD, making it a good pickup at high levels.

[Ellowryn]

May I sig this?

Of course!


Yes and yes.

I really don't see what Ellowryn is on about, talking like it's controversial. There is no ambiguity in either the rules or the fluff. You have the shapechanger subtype, so you qualify. You're in a form other than your natural form, so you gain the abilities at all times. It's about as controversial as using the wild shape Ranger variant to qualify for Master of Many Forms, which is to say, not at all controversial.

I guess if you believed that changelings have no natural form, you might think it doesn't work, because any form they take would count as their "natural form." But of course, that would require you to be ignorant of changeling biology, since, as a matter of fact, they do explicitly have a natural form.

I personally agree with you that changelling qualifies, i was merely pointing out that there are those that disagree.

[Rubik]

Warshaper is decent, as mentioned. Incarnate and/or Totemist would be solid. The Half-Fey (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) template class scales with your HD, making it a good pickup at high levels.I think totemist and incarnate would negate a lot of advantages from being a changeling, since "glowy blue pseudoequipment" would invalidate changes in identity by throwing up a literal big, glowing blue sign at you. Though you can always cast one of the various (Persisted) Invisibility spells at your soulmelds, or a Chained Sequester, maybe.

Levels in the ghost savage progression gives some fun stuff through incorporeality, possession, and Telekinesis. All three are great for a stealth/assassin type. Just make sure to take the Ghostly Grasp feat and buy off the level adjustment.

[Troacctid]

I think totemist and incarnate would negate a lot of advantages from being a changeling, since "glowy blue pseudoequipment" would invalidate changes in identity by throwing up a literal big, glowing blue sign at you. Though you can always cast one of the various (Persisted) Invisibility spells at your soulmelds, or a Chained Sequester, maybe.

I don't see that being a problem. Most of the time, you won't need to be disguised, and when you do, you can just shape soulmelds that are less conspicuous, like Lucky Dice (which are only visible when you roll them), Mage's Spectacles (which you can take off and put in your pocket when you're not using them), or Theft Gloves (which just look like black leather gloves). Also, IIRC, most soulmelds don't glow. And many are not blue.

[Cerefel]

I think totemist and incarnate would negate a lot of advantages from being a changeling, since "glowy blue pseudoequipment" would invalidate changes in identity by throwing up a literal big, glowing blue sign at you.

Whaaat? Doesn't everyone have glowing blue equipment?

[Cerefel]

So a solid build would be something like

Rogue 4
Sneak Attack Hit and Run Fighter 1
Chameleon 10
With the rest being one of the following:

-Legacy Champion 5

-Swordsage 2
Uncanny Trickster 3

-Cabinet Trickster 5

With feats largely being common prereqs like Power Attack and whatnot.

Is there anything I'm missing?

[Anthrowhale]

W.r.t. versatility:

If you can get the 'circle magic' feat from ghostwalk, it will allow you to heighten your spells to level 9. This can be used to access L7,8,9 wizard spells via Rary's Arcane Conversion which you can (barely) cast.

You might want to be able to spontaneously cast spells which can be done via two feats including Uncanny Forethought.

W.r.t. power:

The benefit of caster level = 2*class level is substantial, so the Uncanny Trickster route might work well. Skill tricks also have nice minor benefits.

Cross-class Iajutsu Focus might add to your damage enough to be worthwhile, especially with Able Learner.

[stanprollyright]

So a solid build would be something like

Rogue 4
Sneak Attack Hit and Run Fighter 1
Chameleon 10
With the rest being one of the following:

-Legacy Champion 5

-Swordsage 2
Uncanny Trickster 3

-Cabinet Trickster 5

With feats largely being common prereqs like Power Attack and whatnot.

Is there anything I'm missing?

Darkstalker, Craven, Improved Initiative. Most of the rest can be nabbed as needed. Otherwise looks good to me!



The benefit of caster level = 2*class level is substantial, so the Uncanny Trickster route might work well. Skill tricks also have nice minor benefits.

Cross-class Iajutsu Focus might add to your damage enough to be worthwhile, especially with Able Learner.

Yeah, that *2 CL is wonderful, especially for crafting wands and whatnot.

I'd assume since she wanted to avoid Factotum, she probably doesn't want to get anywhere near Iajitsu Focus.

[Cerefel]

Darkstalker, Craven, Improved Initiative. Most of the rest can be nabbed as needed. Otherwise looks good to me!


Yeah, that *2 CL is wonderful, especially for crafting wands and whatnot.

I'd assume since she wanted to avoid Factotum, she probably doesn't want to get anywhere near Iajitsu Focus.

1- Taking Craven and Improved Initiative as normal feats and using the floating feat on Darkstalker when necessary.

2- I wouldn't mind throwing a few skill points at Iajutsu Focus because I wouldn't be buying them at a rate of 2:1
EDIT: On second thought, I'll just use my floating feat on Open Minded if I want Iajutsu Focus.

[Nifft]

Yeah, that *2 CL is wonderful, especially for crafting wands and whatnot.

Note that she can't craft Wands nor whatnot because she lacks a caster level with which to qualify for any item creation feat.

IMHO this is a major failing -- downtime crafting from practically any spell list seems awesome -- but I'm not sure if the character is going to have any downtime, or if there's some other campaign restriction which changes the apparent awesomeness of item creation.

[Rubik]

How about spellthief and the Master Spellthief feat? Stack those caster levels.

[Cerefel]

Note that she can't craft Wands nor whatnot because she lacks a caster level with which to qualify for any item creation feat.

IMHO this is a major failing -- downtime crafting from practically any spell list seems awesome -- but I'm not sure if the character is going to have any downtime, or if there's some other campaign restriction which changes the apparent awesomeness of item creation.

I would only be using the floating feat on item creation, so couldn't I use Chameleon's caster level to qualify?

[Chronos]

Nothing gained from a chameleon's aptitude focus can be used to qualify for any feat or prestige class. You only have a caster level as a result of Arcane Focus or Divine Focus, and so you can't meet the caster level requirement of item creation feats (unless you get a caster level from some other source).

[zergling.exe]

Nothing gained from a chameleon's aptitude focus can be used to qualify for any feat or prestige class. You only have a caster level as a result of Arcane Focus or Divine Focus, and so you can't meet the caster level requirement of item creation feats (unless you get a caster level from some other source).

One level of wizard and practiced spellcaster nets you the ability to make any kind of magic item except for rods, staves, and rings.

[Cerefel]

Is the problem caused by a clause that specifically states that an aptitude focus can't be used for prereqs or is it just because the aptitude focus is temporary?

[Troacctid]

Nothing gained from a chameleon's aptitude focus can be used to qualify for any feat or prestige class. You only have a caster level as a result of Arcane Focus or Divine Focus, and so you can't meet the caster level requirement of item creation feats (unless you get a caster level from some other source).

All changelings have a caster level equal to their hit dice for their Minor Change Shape ability, which is (Su).


Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.

[Cerefel]

All changelings have a caster level equal to their hit dice for their Minor Change Shape ability, which is (Su).

Nice catch! I completely hadn't thought of that.

[zergling.exe]

Is the problem caused by a clause that specifically states that an aptitude focus can't be used for prereqs or is it just because the aptitude focus is temporary?

The second paragraph of the Class Features section states their inability to meet prerequisites with aptitude fucus, ability boon, and mimic class feature. The bonus feats are allowed to meet requirements oddly enough.

[Cerefel]

The second paragraph of the Class Features section states their inability to meet prerequisites with aptitude fucus, ability boon, and mimic class feature. The bonus feats are allowed to meet requirements oddly enough.

Huh. So it does... I'm not really sure how I managed to miss that so many times.

[Fouredged Sword]

I want to perpose a slight alteration to your setup. Consider Spellthief and beguiler + the master spellthief feat rather than rogue. Yes, you lose out on some REALLY good stuff, but you GAIN the master spellthief steal spell ability and can pick up master spellthief for casting in light armor for all classes.

Spellthief 1 / beguiler 3 / sneak attack hit and run fighter 1 / Chameleon 10 / Mindbender 1 / X is a solid build. You add a solid chunk to your caster level and can cast all those nice arcane chameleon spells in light armor. This is added to the fact that you are a pain anytime you attack a spellcaster.

Also, don't forget to take the craven feat. Adding your HD to your sneak attack as bonus damage is hard to pass up.

[Chronos]

Even with Master Spellthief, Steal Spell isn't too useful with only one level of Spellthief. The feat increases the maximum level of spell you can steal, but it does not increase the limit on the number of spell levels you can store. So you'll be denying an enemy those spell slots, but you won't be able to use them yourself.

[Fouredged Sword]

Even with Master Spellthief, Steal Spell isn't too useful with only one level of Spellthief. The feat increases the maximum level of spell you can steal, but it does not increase the limit on the number of spell levels you can store. So you'll be denying an enemy those spell slots, but you won't be able to use them yourself.

I consider it a side bonus to casting in light armor and having a large boost to your chameleon CL. Fortification mitheril brestplates are really useful items.

[Cerefel]

I don't think the Chameleon levels would add to Master Spellthief though.

[Fouredged Sword]

I don't think the Chameleon levels would add to Master Spellthief though.

It's a bit funny. You have several separate clauses. First you need to qualify, and you need to do so outside of Chameleon as it cannot be used to qualify for things. This is done though Beguiler 3 / Spellthief 1. The second clause is

"Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal."

Chameleon should trigger this with the arcane focus due to the explicit "levels of any class that grants spellcasting other than spellthief". You can't use it to qualify for the feat. You CAN use it to calculate benefits.

The third clause is even more clear.

"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."

Your arcane focus grants an arcane spellcaster level. This stacks with the beguiler caster levels.

The fourth clause is even more clear. No ASF for light armor for casting spells from any class.


"In addition, you do not incur a chance of arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor. You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield."

[Cerefel]

To me that still seems like a fair amount of build resources going towards one really niche ability that doesn't really fit with this build.

[Fouredged Sword]

To me that still seems like a fair amount of build resources going towards one really niche ability that doesn't really fit with this build.

Well, it was offered as an alternative to consider. Chameleon is an odd duck of a class in that it really dominates your build. It doesn't play well with other class features. Once you start in on the chameleon class levels, it becomes everything. You are juggling a few extra points of BAB and evasion with the SA fighter / rogue VS a few spells and light armor casting with Spellthief / beguiler.

Not to say that one is better or worse than the other. At level 15 you are unlikely to really notice the difference really. You will be filling the gaps from ether one though items anyway (ring of evasion and attack bonus boosts VS more AC boosting gear and a few magic scrolls and such.

Another interesting build is

Rogue 3 / Focused attack, Overwhelming Attack, Ray reflection Monk 2. You can pick up int to AC VIA and ray reflection makes the DM hesitant to point ranged touch attacks in your direction. Focused attack allows for double damage swings as a full round action, meaning that you don't feel the lack of iterative attacks as badly and once you boost your AC/Damage it really takes off. Focused attack works with a quarterstaff meaning you have a very versatile weapon that adds 1.5x Str.

[Cerefel]

Well, it was offered as an alternative to consider. Chameleon is an odd duck of a class in that it really dominates your build. It doesn't play well with other class features. Once you start in on the chameleon class levels, it becomes everything. You are juggling a few extra points of BAB and evasion with the SA fighter / rogue VS a few spells and light armor casting with Spellthief / beguiler.

Not to say that one is better or worse than the other. At level 15 you are unlikely to really notice the difference really. You will be filling the gaps from ether one though items anyway (ring of evasion and attack bonus boosts VS more AC boosting gear and a few magic scrolls and such.

Another interesting build is

Rogue 3 / Focused attack, Overwhelming Attack, Ray reflection Monk 2. You can pick up int to AC VIA and ray reflection makes the DM hesitant to point ranged touch attacks in your direction. Focused attack allows for double damage swings as a full round action, meaning that you don't feel the lack of iterative attacks as badly and once you boost your AC/Damage it really takes off. Focused attack works with a quarterstaff meaning you have a very versatile weapon that adds 1.5x Str.

These are some pretty fun ideas and I'm probably going to use them in other builds, but the problem with using them in this build is that I'm basically going to be trying to pass off this character as a bunch of separate characters.

EDIT: To clarify, the DM will be in on it but I'm trying to fool the other players.

[Chronos]

Master Spellthief's effect on caster level is weird, and one could even argue that it would decrease a chameleon's CL. What it stacks is levels in classes, not caster levels in classes (as made clear by it boosting a single-class spellthief's CL), so while a spellthief 6/ chameleon 10 would have a CL of 20 without the feat (twice chameleon level), he would have only 16 with it (sum of class levels).

[Cerefel]

So what would be some good equipment for this character? I was thinking lots of wands.

[Fouredged Sword]

I like scrolls. Wands are for the spells you want to Spam, and I find I don't have a ton of those. With Chameleon you will have some really interesting options though. Craft Wand and Scribe Scroll are solid feats to set your floating feat to if you have the CL outside chameleon to pick them up. Crafting a CL 5 scroll or two of Haste as a 1st level spell is fun. Wands tend to be noticed and remarked on, so stick to something that anyone would carry, CLW. Scrolls, well anyone could have a scroll or two tucked away.

You make really good use of pearls of power. They work with both divine and arcane focus and provide extra spallcasting power. This is also one of the few builds that I can suggest a belt of magnificence as viable unless you want to focus more on a specific build.

[Cerefel]

I like scrolls. Wands are for the spells you want to Spam, and I find I don't have a ton of those. With Chameleon you will have some really interesting options though. Craft Wand and Scribe Scroll are solid feats to set your floating feat to if you have the CL outside chameleon to pick them up. Crafting a CL 5 scroll or two of Haste as a 1st level spell is fun. Wands tend to be noticed and remarked on, so stick to something that anyone would carry, CLW. Scrolls, well anyone could have a scroll or two tucked away.

You make really good use of pearls of power. They work with both divine and arcane focus and provide extra spallcasting power. This is also one of the few builds that I can suggest a belt of magnificence as viable unless you want to focus more on a specific build.

Well for example I was thinking of having a wand of Greater Magic Weapon and then a bunch of different kinds of weapons with wand chambers. Also a wand of Divine power (and other buffs) for before I can take two aptitudes at once.

[Rebel7284]

The cleric dip is amazing if you then take feats for Divine Metamagic - Persistent Spell. Having your buffs last 24 hours is really nice.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well for example I was thinking of having a wand of Greater Magic Weapon and then a bunch of different kinds of weapons with wand chambers. Also a wand of Divine power (and other buffs) for before I can take two aptitudes at once.

Cheaper and better just to purchase morphic weapon and let that be your gear. You can start with a bastard sword and change it to any one or two handed weapon as it is both a two handed and one handed weapon. It works great. The wand is 21,000gp of enchantments that you will be burning two charges a day to stay enchanted at +1 (it has a CL of 5). You can get a +1 morphing bastardsword for 8300ish or so. It works to change into a ranged weapon as well, and as long as you don't try to wield it as a bastard sword one handed, you don't take the prof penalties.

I don't generally think divine power is that great. That said, consider a list of long term buffs you want to apply each day for both divine and arcane. At the start of your day you can prep arcane spells and cast your daily buffs before respecing into divine spell in time to pray for those spells. You lose the arcane slots, but maintain the active buffs like magearmor.

[Rubik]

See if you can use this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?145669-Making-the-Chameleon-even-more-awesome-(PEACH)), as Races of Destiny actually does suggest a psionic focus for the class, and there's no actual write-up for it. Then use that, and stock up on level 1 power stones. CPsi tells us that you can use your own manifester level on a power stone if you use your own power points on it, though that flushes the stone. That turns power stones into single-use powers known, at your manifester level, so you can get a lot more use out of a handful of power stones than you can with scrolls, and there are quite a few really nice (and cheap!) first level powers you can use. 25 gp a day for the equivalent of magical full plate by manifesting Inertial Armor at chameleon level 10? I'd be down with that.

[Cerefel]

Cheaper and better just to purchase morphic weapon and let that be your gear. You can start with a bastard sword and change it to any one or two handed weapon as it is both a two handed and one handed weapon. It works great. The wand is 21,000gp of enchantments that you will be burning two charges a day to stay enchanted at +1 (it has a CL of 5). You can get a +1 morphing bastardsword for 8300ish or so. It works to change into a ranged weapon as well, and as long as you don't try to wield it as a bastard sword one handed, you don't take the prof penalties.

The morphing weapon seems like a good idea. Now I'm looking for ways to have multiple armor sets on a budget. The closest I could find so far was glamored armor which can only disguise itself as normal clothes.

[Rubik]

The morphing weapon seems like a good idea. Now I'm looking for ways to have multiple armor sets on a budget. The closest I could find so far was glamored armor which can only disguise itself as normal clothes.Glamered gnome twist cloth + Inertial Armor? It doesn't matter what your armor looks like, since you're getting a +14 armor bonus to your AC without straining.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, I would go with a twist cloth. You want to stick to light armor for mobility and avoid investing in anything with ASF. I would just no pretend to wear heavy armor. So few of my players wear it and you need to be completely differently built to make it worth it. A paladin can wear a mitheril brestplate and greatsword as easily as he can have a shield and plate.

[Cerefel]

Yeah, I would go with a twist cloth. You want to stick to light armor for mobility and avoid investing in anything with ASF. I would just no pretend to wear heavy armor. So few of my players wear it and you need to be completely differently built to make it worth it. A paladin can wear a mitheril brestplate and greatsword as easily as he can have a shield and plate.

That's a pretty good suggestion, but it doesn't really solve the problem of wanting armor to look different for different personas.

[Rubik]

That's a pretty good suggestion, but it doesn't really solve the problem of wanting armor to look different for different personas.Hence the twist cloth being glamered.

[Cerefel]

Glamering it doesn't make it look like a different kind of armor.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#glamered

(I'd make the link prettier, but I'm posting from my phone)

[Rubik]

Glamering it doesn't make it look like a different kind of armor.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#glamered

(I'd make the link prettier, but I'm posting from my phone)Armor does take up the "clothing" spot on the body, I think. And then we have things like chain shirts. Shirts are definitely clothing. Armor does cover the body, after all.

[Cerefel]

Armor does take up the "clothing" spot on the body, I think. And then we have things like chain shirts. Shirts are definitely clothing. Armor does cover the body, after all.

The lack of blue text here worries me.

[Rubik]

The lack of blue text here worries me.Exactly how overpowered would letting glamered armor be if it could mimic other armor? Is there any suspension of verisimilitude?

In short, what's the problem with considering armor to be clothing (because it basically is, albeit protective clothing) and allowing glamered armor to emulate it visually?

[Cerefel]

Exactly how overpowered would letting glamered armor be if it could mimic other armor? Is there any suspension of verisimilitude?

In short, what's the problem with considering armor to be clothing (because it basically is, albeit protective clothing) and allowing glamered armor to emulate it visually?

I never said it was unbalanced, far from it. However, I don't think the 'armor is clothing' argument really makes much sense.

[Chronos]

What about it doesn't make sense? I mean, it's not like we're mimicking protective qualities, just how it looks. And in terms of how it looks, how is armor any different from any other clothing?

[Rubik]

I looked up "Protective Clothing" on Google. Look at one of the first links I got:

http://shop.opticsplanet.com/damascus-dfx2-imperial-upper-body-protection-system.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CjwKEAiA7f-yBRDAgdv4jZ-78TwSJAA_WdMa5VZBvUngImSrdSyqsu-frd_yCT-koquhAZyGEhng6xoCeGPw_wcB

If that doesn't scream "Futuristic Fullplate," I don't know what does.