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Tyger
2007-06-06, 02:14 PM
This appears to be the best single "you get to be Captain Versatile!" PrC out there, especially if one is playing the Batman style wizard.

But... how the heck does anyone keep track of all the spells? I am only level 8, and we're using only PHB, PHBII and SC for spell sources, but there must be at least a couple hundred spells between those sources for the 4 levels that I have access to for now. Great being able to cast any of them at a moment's notice (one round actually) but how do those of you that play the class keep them all straight?

Valdyr
2007-06-06, 02:34 PM
A lot of research. Spend time outside of game looking over the spell summaries at the beginning to get a general feel for what each of them do, pick out a couple that you know you'll be using a lot and then thoroughly read those spell descriptions so you know all the nuances. It's not so hard, it just takes some time.

SpiderBrigade
2007-06-06, 02:43 PM
The same way you do anything else as a batman wizard: with planning!

You don't actually need to be able to cast every spell, after all. Some spells aren't good. So you pick up all the spells you know you want as your level-up or scroll-bought spells, and then make a list of the other spells you'd LIKE to have, but couldn't get yet. That short list is what you'll be drawing from the spellpool. They should also be spells that you won't need instantly, either (see below).

I'd also point out that the spellpool is not really available "at a moment's notice." It takes a full round action to call up the spell, and then you have to cast it. So it wouldn't be good for something like Feather Fall that you're going to need right then. The only exception is if you have a few minutes warning (1/caster level) that you'll be in a fight/other situation where you might need a certain spell quickly.

I'm not studied up on the top utility spells right now, but I know at low levels my "Spellpool Want List" would include things like Knock, Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Continual Flame, etc. In other words those spells that would be really handy to have in certain situations, but your precious Spells Learned could be spent on more powerful options.

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-06, 02:45 PM
I've only played it once, but I jotted down the few spells that I thought were interesting and/or useful in specific circumstances. For example, once my wizard 10/MotAO 2 got ambushed by a CR 10 very young green dragon. Since I had rapid summoning, I threw up 1d3 Celestial Griffons and spent my next round praying for a Shivering Touch. One instance of "This isn't going to help much now, but might later"

Tyger
2007-06-06, 04:01 PM
Good points all.

And yeah, I noted the one round of 'prayer' time in my original post... :smallgrin:

Good thoughts on keeping it simple to start. I really like this PrC though. Of course, the Cooperative Magic feat I had to take sucks... I'm the only caster in the party.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-06-06, 04:28 PM
To be honest, MotAO, while not bad isn't all that good for a wizard either. Certainly there's a lot worse choices, but there's also more powerful out there.

As far as keeping track, well, that's the headache that comes with being a Wizard. First off, use something like SpellGen to keep track of all the spells in your spellbook, then print off your 'spellbook' and refer to it when choosing which spells to memorise that day. Then, for your extra-goodness of 'OMFG WE NEED X SPELL NOW' stuff from MotAO, well... if you know which spell you need right then, just use it. Shouldn't require a lot of extra bookkeeping.

I will point out that MotAO is supremely excellent for a Sorcerer. Since a Sorcerer's disadvantage is his lack of spells known, the Spellpool is tasty nice for him. It lets him cover bases that would otherwise be uncovered, and lets him get away with spending a LOT less in scrolls and wands than he otherwise would have to carry around for 'just in case' scenarios. Sure, it costs him an extra feat (Arcane Preparation), but you can still get into it fairly rapidly, and the Spellpool is just fun. Use this to lead into something like Iot7V then AM for a truely insane sorcerer build.

Tyger
2007-06-06, 05:29 PM
Yeah, not too worried about being the most optimized build in the world. The PrC makes a lot of sense for the character, the RP and the world, so I went with it.

But all good ideas on the spell list. Thanks!

Rincewind
2007-06-06, 05:39 PM
Gandalf the Gray is a lovely example for the Mage of the Arcane Order Prestige Class.

Did you watch the movie?
Remember how he rode all the way to Minas Tirith, went through the books, found the scroll he needed, and rode all the way back to Bag End so he could warn the little dude of the dangers of the ring?
Yeah.
That's what a Mage of the Arcane Order does when he tries to get a spell from the spell pool. A full round action. The elder mage dude rides all the way back to the library, goes through stuff, and rides back.

Well, that's the power of a wizard, don't mess with us, we're ridin' dirty...

bosssmiley
2007-06-07, 01:53 PM
Good thoughts on keeping it simple to start. I really like this PrC though. Of course, the Cooperative Magic feat I had to take sucks... I'm the only caster in the party.

Co-operative Magic is a deliberately suboptimal 'cost of entry' feat, much like the Archmage having to burn 2 feat slots on Spell Focus. It can be handy if there are NPC or cohort casters about though.

I'm a fan of MotAA too though. It puts me a lot in mind of "Ars Magica's" Hermetic mages, which can only ever be good. :smallcool:

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-07, 02:03 PM
Co-operative Magic is a deliberately suboptimal 'cost of entry' feat, much like the Archmage having to burn 2 feat slots on Spell Focus.

More accurately, it's like the multitude of prereq feats thrown on Master of Nine from ToB. Spell Focus(Necromancy) and Spell Focus(Enchantment) are still good choices, given that both schools force alot of saves.

Desyth
2007-06-07, 03:00 PM
I was actually thinking of something along the same lines as the OP, just for a sorc. ShneekeyTheLost brought up the IotSV, and I've been trying to find a way to combine both that and MotAO in one sorc build. If memory serves, we are looking at a total of 6 required feats for that build. It seems like you would be sacrificing a ton of useful Metamagic feats in order to have access to that build. Anyone of the same mindset that both those prestige classes aren't worth the Metamagic that you could be getting?

Call Me Siggy
2007-06-07, 03:10 PM
I was actually thinking of something along the same lines as the OP, just for a sorc. ShneekeyTheLost brought up the IotSV, and I've been trying to find a way to combine both that and MotAO in one sorc build. If memory serves, we are looking at a total of 6 required feats for that build. It seems like you would be sacrificing a ton of useful Metamagic feats in order to have access to that build. Anyone of the same mindset that both those prestige classes aren't worth the Metamagic that you could be getting?

You could add a bit of Incantrix to that build if you want some metamagic.

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-07, 03:13 PM
Metamagic + Sorcerer = Pointless. Without the PHBII variant, or at very least the Rapid Metamagic Feat, you take a full-round to cast any of your metamagic spells. By then, the wizard has ended the fight and you've wasted a spell slot.

Just alittle aside: IotSV is broken by itself. Why bother adding anything else to it?

Desyth
2007-06-07, 03:14 PM
True, Thats a very good point. Is there any arcane caster question that doesn't have that class as part of an answer?

Solo
2007-06-07, 03:43 PM
I was actually thinking of something along the same lines as the OP, just for a sorc. ShneekeyTheLost brought up the IotSV, and I've been trying to find a way to combine both that and MotAO in one sorc build. If memory serves, we are looking at a total of 6 required feats for that build. It seems like you would be sacrificing a ton of useful Metamagic feats in order to have access to that build. Anyone of the same mindset that both those prestige classes aren't worth the Metamagic that you could be getting?

I've worked out that build, with feats and everything.

It shouldn't be too bad. You won't have too many metamagic feats, but you will be able to buy Rods to cover that.

Quicken spell is all you really need.



level 1: Arcane preparation, Co-operative metamagic. (If taking Flaws, put in a good metamagic feat for number 3)
Make sure to put in skillpoints into all necessary skills.

level 3: 1 feat, Skill focus spellcraft. If you didn't take a flaw, take quicken spell here.

level 6: Start taking levels in MotAO, take Spell Focus Abjuration

level 8: Free metamagic feat from MotAO. Use to get quicken Spell.

Level 9: Greater Spell Focus Abjuration

level 12: 1 Feat. maybe spell focus in any school aside from abjuration if you want to go Archmage later. Skill focus if you didn't take flaws

Level 13: start taking levels in IotSV

level 15: 1 Feat

Level 18: 1 feat

level 20: Archmage