Request: Advice on new gaming laptop

[Talfrey]

For the next X number of months, I will be traveling non stop. Almost literally. But there are a lot of games I want to finish and play when they come out, so I want to get a laptop capable of handling the games coming out now-a-days.

It is for this purpose that I have been browsing for a laptop. I have no intention of trying to build one, I'd build a desktop, but laptops are entirely different beasts.

The best deal I could find that had the power I wanted, was at Alienware.

Here are the Specs...



[1] Aurora™ m9700

Processor: AMD Turion™ 64 Mobile ML40 2.2GHz 800MHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache
Operating System (Office software not included): Genuine Windows® Vista Ultimate - With Media Center Remote Control and Single NTSC TV Tuner
Chassis: 17" WideXGA+ 1440 x 900 LCD with Clearview Technology - Conspiracy Blue
Motherboard: Alienware® NVIDIA® Mobile SLi Chipset
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR SO-DIMM at 400MHz - 2 x 1024MB
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 100GB Serial ATA 1.5Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/ NCQ & 8MB Cache
Optical Drive: 8x Dual Layer CD-RW/DVD±RW w/ Nero Software
Video/Graphics Card: Dual 512MB NVidia® GeForce™ Go 7900 GS - SLI Enabled
Sound Card: High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Wireless Network Card: Internal 802.11b/g WiFi Card w/ Airgo MIMO Technology
Communications: Integrated 10/1000Mb Gigabit Ethernet & 56K V.92 Modem
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth® Device
Primary Battery: Alienware® m9700 12-cell Lithium-Ion Smart Battery Pack


Few questions...

1: Will this be able to run all the games coming out well? (Hellgate: London and Bioshock come to mind)

2: Will this be able to run older games well? (Neverwinter Nights 2 and Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion come to mind)

3: Will the be able to have codec installed so I can watch anime? (I'm not very familiar with Windows Vista, but with a Terabyte 3/4 of the way full of new anime, I don't want to suddenly find myself wishing I had XP)

4: Is there anything that I SHOULD upgrade to? Or a better deal (Power is much more important than price, but notice I chose the 9700 rather than the ALX or whatever it's called that costs several thousand more for what appears to be to the best of my knowledge, a bigger screen... -_-)


Thank you SO much for ANY advice at all.

-Talfrey

[DeathQuaker]

Some general comments:

1. Research, research, research. To do this right, you're going to have to do some serious Web-crawling yourself to find the answers you are looking for, especially re: the Vista compatibility issues. Gaming laptops are usually expensive, so this is the kind of thing where you want to get first hand info from the most reliable resource you can find--not based on hearsay you found on an RPG message board. If you're willing to invest your money in this, you need to be willing to invest your time to find the best product. If you're not interested in investing the time, then you're not ready to spend the money.

2. A couple years ago, when I was looking into buying a gaming laptop, most consumer responses/reports regarding Alienware were VERY poor. They were a company that got a good rep from early good performance, but began to suffer in multiple areas, including customer service, as their company grew. It is possible that they've learned from their mistakes and now produce a quality product with quality customer service again, but I would highly recommend looking into consumer reports both on the Alienware machine as well as other comparable machines.

3. The same couple years ago, I went with a Dell XPS Gen 2. I am still very pleased with it; the only downside is it is heavy and gets hot quickly, though such issues I believe have been better handled in successor models. Its successors are supposed to be quite powerful, and at least for awhile, Dell was giving the option to game-machine buyers to get XP rather than Vista until the game compatibility issues with Vista were ironed out. This is something you may find worth looking into. But again, don't just take my word for it--check into it yourself.

4. For your anime codec issue, I would contact the distributor/creator of said codec and ask them directly.

5. Apart from anticipated Vista compatibility issues, generally new machines will run older games fine. I know the only problem you'd have with NWN2 would be the Vista problem, which they've been working on... do a search at the NWN2 boards at Bioware (they are on Bioware's site though it's an Obsidian game) and see what you can find.

[valadil]

I wouldn't trust Alienware to sell me a toothpick, much less a computer. One of my non technical friends bought an AW laptop, which had display issues. AW tech support blamed her video card and told her to replace its RAM. I can't remember if they sent her a soldering kit or if she bought it herself. Needless to say, her $3000 laptop has been lying around unusable for several months. Another friend had his AW laptop's keys fall off and tech support suggested super glue.

If I were buying a gaming laptop I'd get a macbook pro and run windows via boot camp. I'm also a big fan of dell. IBM makes some solid machines too, but they're too bloated with IBM features for my taste. I just want an OS on my machine, not manufacturer's software.

[Talfrey]

Well...

I just spent far too many hours (from the moment I read DeathQuaker's comment)

Doing Research Research Research.

And I have decided.

To wait until later in the summer for all the GeForce M Series and ATI Radeon Mobility 2000 series to be stuck inside of all my favorite systems, and then I'm buying something from Alienware (probably).

Alienware really is the best price for a custom PC. Try Voodoo, or Falcon... or gorram the half a billion other sites. They just can't match the price for what I want.

So... I suppose the question now is...

Anyone know when The GeForce M series and Mobility 2000 series are going to be making their way into some of the more common laptops? (I know ACER and a few others have prebuilt beasts, but they fail to maintain my interest in most of them, though ASUS's 17" laptop with the GeForce 8600M sounds nice.

I might get it...

But this brings up yet another question...

Is there anyway to tell if a laptop can fit a second video card potentially? I'm guessing not, but I'd thought I'd ask.

And one more question, because I couldn't find a real clear answer as to yes or no on this...

Say I DO buy the above laptop, the first one, would there be compatibility issues if in the future I decided to take out the installed graphics cards and upgrade to something that's Direct X 10 compatible?

Thanks again!

Oh, and PS: I've never had a problem with Alienware, and I've had one for quite a while now. Only buying a new Laptop because well, I'm going to have to leave my beast at home for a while. *shrug* I think your friend just had a bad experience.

[Erloas]

From what I've seen looking at Alienware anymore they aren't really anything special. Mostly just paying for a name. They are owned by Dell now I believe.

As far as will it run games coming out? It looks like it should do a good job, but as you have mentioned it doesn't have a DX10 card right now so when those games come out it won't run them. (not sure how many games have adopted dx10 yet)




Is there anyway to tell if a laptop can fit a second video card potentially? I'm guessing not, but I'd thought I'd ask.
Well the laptop you are looking at has 2 cards in SLI as it says. As far as telling on other laptops the easiest way would be to look at the motherboard they are using, otherwise its pretty much up to how much information the company is going to give you about the system.

[Archonic Energy]

Well...

I just spent far too many hours (from the moment I read DeathQuaker's comment)

Doing Research Research Research.

And I have decided.

To wait until later in the summer for all the GeForce M Series and ATI Radeon Mobility 2000 series to be stuck inside of all my favorite systems, and then I'm buying something from Alienware (probably).

Alienware really is the best price for a custom PC. Try Voodoo, or Falcon... or gorram the half a billion other sites. They just can't match the price for what I want.

So... I suppose the question now is...

Anyone know when The GeForce M series and Mobility 2000 series are going to be making their way into some of the more common laptops? (I know ACER and a few others have prebuilt beasts, but they fail to maintain my interest in most of them, though ASUS's 17" laptop with the GeForce 8600M sounds nice.

I might get it...

But this brings up yet another question...

Is there anyway to tell if a laptop can fit a second video card potentially? I'm guessing not, but I'd thought I'd ask.

And one more question, because I couldn't find a real clear answer as to yes or no on this...

Say I DO buy the above laptop, the first one, would there be compatibility issues if in the future I decided to take out the installed graphics cards and upgrade to something that's Direct X 10 compatible?

Thanks again!

Oh, and PS: I've never had a problem with Alienware, and I've had one for quite a while now. Only buying a new Laptop because well, I'm going to have to leave my beast at home for a while. *shrug* I think your friend just had a bad experience.

Hello Talfrey,

here is my Gaming laptop.
Aurora™ m7700

Case: Alienware® m7700 Case with 17" WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 Display with Built-in Camera
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition UK with SP2 - English
Warranty: Aliencare Free Phone 1-Year 24/7 Warranty
Promotional Item: Vodafone 3G Mobile Connect Card - Free 3G
AlienRespawn: Alienware® Respawn Recovery Kit
Processor: AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 3800+ Processor with HyperTransport and Dual Core Technology
Memory: 2GB DDR PC-3200 400MHz - 2x1024MB
Video Card: Alienware® m7700 NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7800GTX with 256MB of DDR3 memory
Hard Drive: Extreme Performance - RAID 0 - 160GB (80GB x 2) 5400 RPM SATA
Optical Drive One: DVD-Burner: 8x Dual Layer DVD+/-RW / 24x CD-RW Combo w/Software
Optical Drive Two: CD-Burner: 24x10x24x CD-RW / 8x DVD Combo w/Software
Floppy Drive: USB Floppy Drive
Sound Card: High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Modem: 56K Modem with V.92 Technology
Ethernet NIC: Integrated 10/1000Mb Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (DSL-ready)
Wireless network: Internal Wireless 802.11a/b/g miniPCI Card
Keypad: Mobile Keypad - English
Optional Mouse: Microsoft® IntelliMouse Explorer USB 4.0 - Conspiracy Blue

ok, that's WHY i'm qualified to make the following statements.

1. Gaming Laptops Rock!
2. Alienware Customer Service are good... IF you beat them into giving what they should (i've had my problems with them but i was able to sort it, you need to be firm & fair)
3. Gaming "Laptops" should not be used on laps... they get HOT
4. the above system is my primary gaming rig and apart from some Blue screen errors on Oblivion i have few problems (but when it f***s up it REALLY f***s up)
5. your graphics cards will be upgradable, though i am having problems finding a vendor which stocks mini PCI-E cards. as for SLI... check with the vendor before you part with your cash
6. get a 2 year warantee at least (it's how long a gaming PC should last... gaming wise. i'm looking to upgrade early next year)
7. you are correct Alienware are one of a very select bunch of companys who make true gaming laptops. Dell XPS Laptops don't match their customiseability (is that a word?) or their power
8. wait for DX10 laptop Graphics cards & Vista Ge-Force SLI drivers
9. look at Rock laptops too. (my next one might be a Rock)

[Talfrey]

Right

I think what I will do, is for the ease of me, I will get an alienware rig, with Windows XP and an SLI motherboard. Downgrade the card so it's still awesome, but in the end won't be costing me 400 extra dollars for something that'll be replaced when I can get a Direct X 10 and SLI compatible pair of graphics cards. Chances are, the likes of such won't appear for some time, but for now I'll have a pretty hand beast for my travels.


Ooon the other hand...

How would an alienware PC like the one above match up against something with just one of the new Vista Boards? Might it be better to just by one of them? (they ARE cheaper).

And while we're at it...

Where do I find SLI enabled notebooks except for places like Alienware and Rock? I can't seem to find them ANYWHERE. Literally.

(Note: Rock cost $5000 for the nearest configuration to above, and after some effort, I configured the same on Alienware and found it to still be a thousand dollars cheaper.)

Well...

I think I'm gonna get the Alienware PC in the end. Upgrade video as I have to much later on and down the line a ways.

[Ishmael]

Though it's likely not your cup of tea, I would have to recommend the new Macbook Pros. The Nvidia 8600 that comes with them blows away the graphical capabilities that any other gaming laptops offer, at a comparable price.

[Archonic Energy]

Where do I find SLI enabled notebooks except for places like Alienware and Rock? I can't seem to find them ANYWHERE. Literally.

(Note: Rock cost $5000 for the nearest configuration to above, and after some effort, I configured the same on Alienware and found it to still be a thousand dollars cheaper.)
Where...
VoodooPC (http://www.voodoopc.com/sellpage/sellpage.aspx?spid=74)
Hypersonic (http://www.hypersonic-pc.com/AX9/)
Sager (http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/go_np5950.html)

my biggest irk is i can't find a Intel dual core with Dual SLI graphics... (i hate to admit that Intel make the fastest laptop processors)

as for Price...
Alienware
Aurora™ mALX

Display: 19" WideSXGA+ 1680 x 1050 LCD Display with Built-in 1.3 Mega Pixel Camera - Space Black
Operating System: Genuine Windows® Vista Ultimate - English
Warranty: AlienCare 1-Year Free Phone 24/7 and Collect & Return
Processor: AMD Turion™ 64 Mobile ML40 2.2GHz 800MHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache
Memory: 2GB DDR SO-DIMM at 400MHz - 2x1024MB
Video Card: Dual 512MB NVidia® GeForce™ Go 7950 GTX SLI Enabled
System Drive: Extreme Performance - RAID 0 - 200GB (100GB x 2) 7200 RPM SATA
CD/DVD/RW: DVD-Burner: 8x Dual Layer DVD+/-RW / 24x CD-RW Combo w/Software
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy 2 ZS PCMCIA
Motherboard: Alienware® NVIDIA® NForce 4 SLI Chipset
Communications: Integrated 10/1000Mb Gigabit Ethernet & 56K V.92 Modem
Wireless Network Card: Internal Wireless 802.11a/b/g miniPCI Card
Primary battery: Alienware® Aurora mALX 12-cell Lithium-Ion Smart Battery Pack
Security Software: Kaspersky Anti-Virus Personal Professional - 12 month subscription Included!


£3,168.98

Rock

XSLPRO-TL60 standard features:
AMD Turion X2 TL-60 2.0GHz
20inch WSXGA+ X-Glass Screen
2x NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 GTX 512MB
2GB DDR2 667MHz
2x 100GB 7200rpm SATA HDDs / RAID 0 (striped for capacity)
8x +/- Dual Layer DVD Writer
No TV Tuner
Vista Ultimate - SLI enabled from End of June
Roxio, BullGuard, Works, Office Trial
UK Power Lead
Pixel Guarantee option not taken

£2687.00

i'm not buying that Alienware are cheaper... and before anyone comments that it is only a 2.0GHz while the AW is 2.2GHz the Rock is a dual core!

[Talfrey]

Oooh

You're right!

I missed the dual proccessor core.

My dear Archonic Energy, do you think it would be better to spend the extra cash now on dual cores, and hope it will last longer, or get a single one and replace it when something better comes out?

I notice Proccessors aren't making the leaps that graphics cards are these days (Murphys Law was long since abandoned by ATI and NVidea) so I'm thinking that the duals might be better.

What would you say?




I think the best deal I found is actually...

http://www.pcmicroworks.com/store/customize.php

There.

Though Rock has just as big of a screen.

I think it was the features I wanted that made the difference so big. TV Tuner was less on Alienware than Rock. Might have caused the difference. Going to go build another one real quick and think more about this.


-------

And I'd rather gouge my own eye out than buy a Mac.

Macs are like dinners at a nice restaurant, they're expensive, tasty, and nice to look at, but ultimately not filling. I'd rather go blow the same money at a decent place, get ten times as much, tastes great, and the only real risk I suffer is the chance of food poisoning.


----------


List of Laptops I'm looking at and Price...

Aviator: $$3,262.00


* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Reflexxion Series Black Sapphire Metallic / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.40GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* RAID (0) Striped Drive Configuration - Best Performance / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* (No Additional Battery Pack) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition CD & Manual SP2 Pre-Installed & Configured / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 2 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1

Right there, 100% better than the Alienware Laptop I was looking at. I don't know what I was thinking (or what set up I was looking at) to think differently.

Voodoo: $6997

Why bother looking at the stats? I built it to the same min specs (2 GB of Memory, a 7200RPM Hard Drive, and SLI graphics cards Pretty much identical to the one above. THIS is a brand name I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pool. Unless that pole was a solid ten feet of hundred dollar bills wrapped into a pole. And even then I'd rather be touching something with a bigger screan.



Voodoo ENVY Heavyweight HW:201 Notebook
Voodoo Performance and Stability Re-Engineering
Voodoo Disaster Recovery System II
Voodoo EDGE Mousing Surface
Voodoo Koeskin System Binder
VoodooPC T-Shirt
IS09001:2000 Quality Control Standards
Voodoo ENVY Heavyweight 20/ Chassis
Voodoo ENVY 201 Performance Motherboard
AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile TL-52
2GB DDR2 PC2-5300
Hitachi 80 gig 7200 SATA
Voodoo Internal Digital Card Reader 4-in-1
8X ENVY DVD+-RW Dual Layer DVD & CD Writer
NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 512 MB
NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 512 MB
20 Samsung High Resolution Gaming LCD
Voodoo ENVY Video Camera
Hauppage WinTV-PVR USB TV Tuner Kit
Voodoo ENVY u:909 8 Channel Audio System
Envy Theaterbook Immersive Subwoofer
Mini-PCI-E B/G Network Connection
Voodoo ENVY Integrated BlueTooth Module
Internal 56K Fax Modem
ENVY Gigabit High Speed Ethernet
No Shipping (Pickup)
Windows XP Professional
FUEL Software Essentials v2.0
1 Year Voodoo ENVY Warranty Policy
ENVY Silver Upgrade Policy

Moving on...

PC Microworks: $3738

The PC MicroWorks Advantage:
> Rigorous 300 Point Burn-In Test
> Professional Technician Hands On Testing
> Industry Leading Benchmark Performance
> Industry Leading Shipping Turn-Around
> Reliability and Support When it Counts

Components:
AMD Dual Core Turion TL-56 X2 64Bit Advanced Processor
2048MB High Speed DDR2 800MHz Extreme Performance Memory
100GB @ 7200RPM High Speed Storage
No External Storage
8X High Speed Dual Layer +/- DVD-RW Drive
SLI Dual nVIDIA Geforce GO 7950GTX 1GB RAM X-TREME GPU
20.1" WSXGA+ Super Resolution GlassVision Wide Screen Cinema Display
8 Channel Advanced SRS WOW Surround Sound System
High Speed 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit Networking Adapter
Internal High Speed V90k Dial Up Modem
Built In 802.11ABG 54mbps High Speed Wireless Adapter
Integrated Advanced Bluetooth Wireless Adapter
No EVDO (Evolution Data Only) High Speed Internet Connection
No GPS Location Device
Advanced TV Tuner + Remote Control
No Floppy Drive
No Extra Mouse
No Biometrics
No Controller
No Operating System (Advanced Users Only)
No Notebook Security
No Laptop Cooler
No Extra AC Adapter
No Extra Battery
No Car Power Adapter
No Notebook Carrying Bag
No Burning or DVD Software
No Virus or Spyware Protection
Dead Pixel Protection Not Included
Standard Limited 1 Year Warranty Coverage
No Office Productivity Package

Honestly that's a very nice piece of work. Not as pretty to look at as the others, but it's got a helluva lot, and a HUGE screen (20.1 inches, widescreen). Same stats as the Aviator with only a few hundred dollars more (not bad for all the extra screen size imho.

Best part about this system is how cheap it is to upgrade compared tot he others. While going to 4 GB or ram on others would cost 400-500, this is just about 300. And there are tons of other nice little upgrades for it. (BIOMETRIC FINGER SCANNER FOR $69!!! I mean CRAP! It's the FUTURE!!!)

Rock: $5,357

20inch WSXGA+ X-Glass Screen /
2x NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 GTX 512MB /
2GB DDR2 667MHz (Recommended for Vista) /
2x 100GB 7200rpm SATA HDDs /
RAID 0 (striped for capacity) /
8x +/- Dual Layer DVD Writer /
Hybrid Digital/Analogue TV Tuner /
Windows XP Home - SLI Driver Available /
Roxio, BullGuard, Works, Office Trial /
USA/Canada Power Lead /
Pixel Guarantee option not taken

Did some research Rock > Alienware...

But seriously.

PC MicroWorks > Everyone.

I think I know where my money is going.

Possible Final, PC MicroWorks Vega system: $4253

The PC MicroWorks Advantage:
> Rigorous 300 Point Burn-In Test
> Professional Technician Hands On Testing
> Industry Leading Benchmark Performance
> Industry Leading Shipping Turn-Around
> Reliability and Support When it Counts

Components:
AMD Dual Core Turion TL-60 X2 64Bit Advanced Processor
4096MB High Speed DDR2 667MHz Extreme Performance Memory
100GB @ 7200RPM High Speed Storage
No External Storage
8X High Speed Dual Layer +/- DVD-RW Drive
SLI Dual nVIDIA Geforce GO 7950GTX 1GB RAM X-TREME GPU
20.1" WSXGA+ Super Resolution GlassVision Wide Screen Cinema Display
8 Channel Advanced SRS WOW Surround Sound System
High Speed 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit Networking Adapter
Internal High Speed V90k Dial Up Modem
Built In 802.11ABG 54mbps High Speed Wireless Adapter
Integrated Advanced Bluetooth Wireless Adapter
No EVDO (Evolution Data Only) High Speed Internet Connection
No GPS Location Device
Advanced TV Tuner + Remote Control
No Floppy Drive
No Extra Mouse
No Biometrics
No Controller
No Operating System (Advanced Users Only)
No Notebook Security
No Laptop Cooler
No Extra AC Adapter
No Extra Battery
No Car Power Adapter
No Notebook Carrying Bag
No Burning or DVD Software
No Virus or Spyware Protection
Dead Pixel Protection Not Included
Standard Limited 1 Year Warranty Coverage
No Office Productivity Package

About $1000 more than I wanted to spend originally, but I think I'll be happy with it.

Opinions?

Oh, and finally question...


Does " AMD Dual Core Turion TL-60 X2 64Bit Advanced Processor"

Mean there are x2 as in two of them, or is X2 a product name? Wait, I'll go google it now.

Product name... and apparently upgrading to a 64 would mean a .33 GHZ increase in speed on both sides... about 240 dollars more for that, is it worth it? And for that matter is the 120 dollars more for the 60 instead of the 56 worth it? onlly .2 GHz

[Om]

That's some very expensive equipment. Honestly I wouldn't pay that for something that will be obsolete in a matter of months. If I were you I'd resign myself to not playing the latest FPS for a number of months and invest in a machine that's capable but not brilliant.

I'm fairly sure that you could pick up a laptop that's capable of playing all but the latest and fanciest games for a fraction of the price.

[Talfrey]

That's some very expensive equipment. Honestly I wouldn't pay that for something that will be obsolete in a matter of months. If I were you I'd resign myself to not playing the latest FPS for a number of months and invest in a machine that's capable but not brilliant.

I'm fairly sure that you could pick up a laptop that's capable of playing all but the latest and fanciest games for a fraction of the price.

First of all, by what basis would the laptop be obsolete?

I have learned very very recently that at the rate things are growing in laptops... everything i have in there 'cept the video cards will be fine for a long time to come.

I mean, the power of the proccessors is plenty fine, and there are even two of them. Proccessors aren't were a machine's power lies now-a-days anyway

The Motherboard is top notch and I'll probably be able to upgrade off of it for a few years to come.

With 4 gigs of ram, I'll be decked out Ram wise for a WHILE. Right now 2 gigs is good, with above being Great, so much so that most don't even offer above 2, I mean look at rock, their best is 2.8. 4 gigs is more than enough to keep me up to speed for a while to come.

Screen size, let's look at this...

20.1 inches. That's HUGE for a screen. Not the problem.

Graphics? This is absolutely top of the market, it'll last for months to come... but wait, I'll be obsolete then!?! oh noes! Oh wait, that gen will be obsolete in a few months too!

Dude, if you didn't know (I just learned) Graphics Processors are advancing so quickly right now that anything you buy will be obsolete in a short time, it's inescapable, you just have to accept it and buy what you can get. And it's not like I'm spending an extra thousand for the best there currently is, it's just a decent price. And it's very silly to think that I definetly need something able to run direct X 10. There isn't a game that's gonna need it for over a year on the horizon, so I'm REALLY not worried. Even then, such a move would be REALLY risky for a while to come because of the number of people who won't find they are compatible with the new direct X. I'd give another two or three years before it becomes a company standard.

...

Wow. I can't believe I sound like I know stuff now.

sorry, got to my head there.

Anyway... I Am thinking of getting something less expensive now though... probably smaller screen. But I definetly need the ram.

Time to shop!

Aviator... This time I went crazy: $3947

Aviator EQ7

* Minimum 72-Hour Burn-in & testing with 128-Point Quality Control Process
* Configured and tested with latest qualified drivers and operating system updates
* Arctic Silver 5 High Tech Polysynthetic Heat Dissipation Agent
* Audio DJ feature allows CD playback even when system is turned off
* TV-Tuner with Remote - (optional)
* DVI Port for Digital output to Flat Panel Monitors

* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Reflexxion Series Titanium Pearl / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.40GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* 4GB PC5300 DDR2-667 KIT SODIMM (2 Modules, Requires 64-Bit OS) / 1
* 4GB PC5300 DDR2-667 KIT SODIMM (2 Modules, Requires 64-Bit OS) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* RAID (0) Striped Drive Configuration - Best Performance / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* (No Additional Battery Pack) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Internal Bluetooth Module for EQ7 / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Non-Operating System Setup (Blank HD). Only Testing and Burn-in / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 1 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1

System Price (excluding shipping): $3,947.00

As you can see, 8GB of ram. I like ram. A lot.

My idea with this is that I buy this and get myself a copy of Windows XP x64. The 64 bit system that's not vista.

I don't really want vista too much anymore.

What yall think?

[Erloas]

Sounds like you have a lot of money to burn.

I agree that any of those systems are going to last you quite a while. There are very few games that are processor bound, most all of them are bottlenecked by other points in the system.

8GB of RAM seems excessive (which does seem to be a theme with your choices) unless you are doing very particular applications. Games use a fair amount of RAM, but not that much. There is a very definate case of diminishing returns on RAM. The bonus you get going from 1GB to 2GB is a lot more then 2GB to 4GB and I doubt there is anything out there that will see any difference between 4GB and 8GB.

In terms of the GPU I agree that going with the high end DX9 cards are a better bet right now then the lower end DX10 cards. From everything I've read the 8500-8600 cards perform a fair amount worse then their 7XXX counterparts. And as you said, not much is going to be coming out for DX10 for quite a while.

For the RAID 0... its hard to tell in that list, but are there 2 hard drives? Putting a single HD into a RAID won't change its performance at all. You need at least 2 identicle drives to put them into a RAID.

I find it odd that they don't seem to have the N type wireless routers. Given a lot of places are still using the G type and its pretty good, but the guy I work with said he saw a big improvement in his wireless speed when he upgraded to an N router and cards.

Personally I would go with Vista now if you are purchasing new. Any decent system builder (IE the people you are paying to build this system for you) should make sure that everything they have is fully compatible with Vista if they install Vista. There will be a point when Vista will be needed and at least then you are saving yourself one upgrade by just needing to get the DX10 cards and not needing to do a full OS install too (upgrades on OSs never go as well as they should). Its also not like you are putting it on a system that its going to bog down at all. Its not so much a question of IF but WHEN you need Vista so you may as well let someone else go through the effort of making sure everything is compatable and working.

[Wehrkind]

Have you checked out Widow PC? I have heard some really good things, essentially making them the "new alienware", but then that is exactly the sort of information Death Quaker warned you about, so enjoy some salt with it.

[Talfrey]

@Erloas, thanks for the advice. I needed someone to tell me that about ram. Ram gets me excited way too easily. You're right, I should stick with a pair of gig sticks and upgrade if I need to, price isn't really worth it.

And as for money...

Well, I work a lot, and literally never spend money except on bills and food, and on food, I eat the bare minimum, always cook for myself, and also never buy fancy or brand name. The trick is I go to the market and buy everything I need for a week for a couple euro.

Then, everything else goes into investments, mostly stockmarket and trustworthy funds for the long range higher return. For short range, I'll dump lump sums in whatever my bank offers, dumping say 4k into a fund with a 6% return after a year. Often I won't be able to touch my money for long periods of time, but later on (like let's just say two years later) I come back to find an extra couple thousand in my bank account.

I have a house... I have a car... I have no bills or debts... No kids or even a girlfriend to spend money on... my computer is growing old and I would like a nice laptop to travel with...

Why not splurge a little and instead of reinvesting this stuff, I enjoy the fruits of my labor and spend a little on a very nice laptop?

And that's where yall came in.

Aaand yet another option

XTreme Notebooks: $3734
Nova 989W Reactor
19" WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050) Super Wide Angle Glass View LCD
DUAL NVIDIA® GeFORCE Go 7950 GTX PCI-E SLI Mode w/512MB (1024MB total)
AMD Turion™ 64 TL-60 X2 Dual Core Processor (2.0 x 2) - 35 Watts
SALE! 4096MB DDR2 667MHz Premium Micron RAM 2 DIMM
100GB SATA 150/HDD 7200 RPM
8X24X10X24 DVD/CDRW Combo Drive (8x DVDRW available)
Standard Xtreme Logo
12 Cell Smart Li-Ion Battery - Approximately 2.0 Hours of Runtime
110/220V 180W Auto Switching AC Adapter - Included
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D 8 channel Azalia Sound System (2 blt-in speakers)
Special 19" Notebook Backpack - Included
No OS Desired - CD with Drivers and Utilities Only
SALE 802.11ABG TURBO 108Mbps Mini PCI Internal LAN
Standard 12 Month Parts and Labor Mail-In Coverage
Internal Bluetooth Wireless Mini PCI
RAID 0 Enabled (Stripe Set) Dual Drives Required
Internal World Wide Digital/Analog TV Tuner W/Remote PAL & NTSC
Built-In Digital Video Camera
4 in 1 Flash Card Reader - Standard

Not bad of price, pretty much the same stats as the PC MicroWorks computer, with only one problem. Never heard of the manufacturer. Ever. So somewhat disinclined.

Edit:

Further research yields despite their shoddy website design, the computers they ship are top notch. And for the money... Well..

They seriously are the current best on the market I could find. I even compared parts to build one. This is pretty much me paying for exactly what I get, with a little padding (like required warranty, etc.)

My one irk is that they can't set it up for Windows Vista 64 bit as an option. I plan to speak with a customer service rep about it and see if they can do it for me, but other than that, I've pretty much decided where my money is going.


Link to the actual Notebook...

Here. (http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/index.php?section=configurator&regular_model_id=1077&model_id=1079&include_type=16_inch&category=)

OH Schnap, and just to add to the coolness, I'm going to get a professional car paint job done to my notebook. I have a friend who details cars, and I've been looking into it, and it wouldn't be that hard to just pull off (probably just the back case) and paint a design on it. It'll be insanely sweet.

In the end it's a split between...

Aviator: $3,310
tem Configuration - Print View - 6/8/2007 7:34:50 PM Eastern United States Time
Aviator EQ7

* Minimum 72-Hour Burn-in & testing with 128-Point Quality Control Process
* Configured and tested with latest qualified drivers and operating system updates
* Arctic Silver 5 High Tech Polysynthetic Heat Dissipation Agent
* Audio DJ feature allows CD playback even when system is turned off
* TV-Tuner with Remote - (optional)
* DVI Port for Digital output to Flat Panel Monitors

* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Reflexxion Series Luminous Green Pearl / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.67GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* (No RAID Configuration) / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* (No Additional Battery Pack) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition CD & Manual SP2 Pre-Installed & Configured / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 1 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1

Or the system above.



In other words...

Is it worth ~$300 extra dollars for an extra two gigs of ram, and ~200 extra dollars for a screen that's 2 inches bigger?

...

And a slightly less powerful processor... :smallfrown:

Hmmm... after an immense amount of deliberation...

I've decided that I want to try to get the Aviator, but with no memory, and then stick in my own sticks of Ram.

Buuut...

Anyone know if...

Any of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000170381+1309121116&name=2GB)

are compatible? I've been trying to find information on the motherboard, but to no successful end, so I look to you oh beloved helpers of the board, to aid me in my seemingly endless quest.


Just to be a jerk, here I am again.

Does anyone know anything about "Deskbooks"?

Essentially a portable Desktop System?

I'm REALLY not worried about size or weight, portability just means it's gotta fit in my backpack and only need to be opened to set up. If it ways 40 pounds? All the better! Now traveling with my laptop will be an exercise experience too!

[ClericofPhwarrr]

I'm REALLY not worried about size or weight, portability just means it's gotta fit in my backpack and only need to be opened to set up. If it ways 40 pounds? All the better! Now traveling with my laptop will be an exercise experience too!

Um. That was my line of thought while getting my 17-inch laptop. After having it almost a year, I've changed my mind about what I should have gotten. The beast hardly fits into most backpacks, and when it does can have barely anything else in with it. A 17" carrying bag is both hard to find and expensive (though I see that's not a problem for you). While the screen is spacious and well lit (Ultra Brightview, yay), hauling this thing around is a real pain. Enough of a pain that even though I bought it as a (semi)portable desktop, I wish I'd bought a little laptop and a 17"+ external screen to plug it into. Just a word of warning.

Also, mine will cut off the blood at your knees if you have it in your lap too long :smallyuk:. On the other hand... the keyboard actually has a number pad. Try finding THAT on most laptops :smalltongue:.

[Talfrey]

Um. That was my line of thought while getting my 17-inch laptop. After having it almost a year, I've changed my mind about what I should have gotten. The beast hardly fits into most backpacks, and when it does can have barely anything else in with it. A 17" carrying bag is both hard to find and expensive (though I see that's not a problem for you). While the screen is spacious and well lit (Ultra Brightview, yay), hauling this thing around is a real pain. Enough of a pain that even though I bought it as a (semi)portable desktop, I wish I'd bought a little laptop and a 17"+ external screen to plug it into. Just a word of warning.

Also, mine will cut off the blood at your knees if you have it in your lap too long :smallyuk:. On the other hand... the keyboard actually has a number pad. Try finding THAT on most laptops :smalltongue:.

Well, I'm still used to lugging around a thirty pound backpack full of books...

Though you do make me rethink...

The more and more I think about this, I want to get the nice semi small 17" aviator. I am currently cutting a cardboard box to the right specifications and filling it with batteries (I have an AWFUL lot of rechargables) to see if it's too big still.

[Archonic Energy]

Ode to multiquote...


My dear Archonic Energy, do you think it would be better to spend the extra cash now on dual cores, and hope it will last longer, or get a single one and replace it when something better comes out?
I notice Proccessors aren't making the leaps that graphics cards are these days (Murphys Law was long since abandoned by ATI and NVidea) so I'm thinking that the duals might be better.
What would you say?

yes... if the software is configured to use them correctly otherwise you get about a 25% increase... ish

look here for CPU (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmarklist.2436.0.html) & GPU (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html) stats.




I think the best deal I found is actually...

http://www.pcmicroworks.com/store/customize.php

There.

Though Rock has just as big of a screen.

I think it was the features I wanted that made the difference so big. TV Tuner was less on Alienware than Rock. Might have caused the difference. Going to go build another one real quick and think more about this.


List of Laptops I'm looking at and Price...

Aviator: $$3,262.00


* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Reflexxion Series Black Sapphire Metallic / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.40GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* RAID (0) Striped Drive Configuration - Best Performance / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* (No Additional Battery Pack) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition CD & Manual SP2 Pre-Installed & Configured / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 2 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1

Right there, 100% better than the Alienware Laptop I was looking at. I don't know what I was thinking (or what set up I was looking at) to think differently.

Voodoo: $6997

Why bother looking at the stats? I built it to the same min specs (2 GB of Memory, a 7200RPM Hard Drive, and SLI graphics cards Pretty much identical to the one above. THIS is a brand name I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pool. Unless that pole was a solid ten feet of hundred dollar bills wrapped into a pole. And even then I'd rather be touching something with a bigger screan.



Voodoo ENVY Heavyweight HW:201 Notebook
Voodoo Performance and Stability Re-Engineering
Voodoo Disaster Recovery System II
Voodoo EDGE Mousing Surface
Voodoo Koeskin System Binder
VoodooPC T-Shirt
IS09001:2000 Quality Control Standards
Voodoo ENVY Heavyweight 20/ Chassis
Voodoo ENVY 201 Performance Motherboard
AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile TL-52
2GB DDR2 PC2-5300
Hitachi 80 gig 7200 SATA
Voodoo Internal Digital Card Reader 4-in-1
8X ENVY DVD+-RW Dual Layer DVD & CD Writer
NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 512 MB
NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 512 MB
20 Samsung High Resolution Gaming LCD
Voodoo ENVY Video Camera
Hauppage WinTV-PVR USB TV Tuner Kit
Voodoo ENVY u:909 8 Channel Audio System
Envy Theaterbook Immersive Subwoofer
Mini-PCI-E B/G Network Connection
Voodoo ENVY Integrated BlueTooth Module
Internal 56K Fax Modem
ENVY Gigabit High Speed Ethernet
No Shipping (Pickup)
Windows XP Professional
FUEL Software Essentials v2.0
1 Year Voodoo ENVY Warranty Policy
ENVY Silver Upgrade Policy

Moving on...

PC Microworks: $3738

The PC MicroWorks Advantage:
> Rigorous 300 Point Burn-In Test
> Professional Technician Hands On Testing
> Industry Leading Benchmark Performance
> Industry Leading Shipping Turn-Around
> Reliability and Support When it Counts

Components:
AMD Dual Core Turion TL-56 X2 64Bit Advanced Processor
2048MB High Speed DDR2 800MHz Extreme Performance Memory
100GB @ 7200RPM High Speed Storage
No External Storage
8X High Speed Dual Layer +/- DVD-RW Drive
SLI Dual nVIDIA Geforce GO 7950GTX 1GB RAM X-TREME GPU
20.1" WSXGA+ Super Resolution GlassVision Wide Screen Cinema Display
8 Channel Advanced SRS WOW Surround Sound System
High Speed 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit Networking Adapter
Internal High Speed V90k Dial Up Modem
Built In 802.11ABG 54mbps High Speed Wireless Adapter
Integrated Advanced Bluetooth Wireless Adapter
No EVDO (Evolution Data Only) High Speed Internet Connection
No GPS Location Device
Advanced TV Tuner + Remote Control
No Floppy Drive
No Extra Mouse
No Biometrics
No Controller
No Operating System (Advanced Users Only)
No Notebook Security
No Laptop Cooler
No Extra AC Adapter
No Extra Battery
No Car Power Adapter
No Notebook Carrying Bag
No Burning or DVD Software
No Virus or Spyware Protection
Dead Pixel Protection Not Included
Standard Limited 1 Year Warranty Coverage
No Office Productivity Package

Honestly that's a very nice piece of work. Not as pretty to look at as the others, but it's got a helluva lot, and a HUGE screen (20.1 inches, widescreen). Same stats as the Aviator with only a few hundred dollars more (not bad for all the extra screen size imho.

Best part about this system is how cheap it is to upgrade compared tot he others. While going to 4 GB or ram on others would cost 400-500, this is just about 300. And there are tons of other nice little upgrades for it. (BIOMETRIC FINGER SCANNER FOR $69!!! I mean CRAP! It's the FUTURE!!!)

Rock: $5,357

20inch WSXGA+ X-Glass Screen /
2x NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950 GTX 512MB /
2GB DDR2 667MHz (Recommended for Vista) /
2x 100GB 7200rpm SATA HDDs /
RAID 0 (striped for capacity) /
8x +/- Dual Layer DVD Writer /
Hybrid Digital/Analogue TV Tuner /
Windows XP Home - SLI Driver Available /
Roxio, BullGuard, Works, Office Trial /
USA/Canada Power Lead /
Pixel Guarantee option not taken

Did some research Rock > Alienware...

But seriously.

PC MicroWorks > Everyone.

I think I know where my money is going.

Possible Final, PC MicroWorks Vega system: $4253

The PC MicroWorks Advantage:
> Rigorous 300 Point Burn-In Test
> Professional Technician Hands On Testing
> Industry Leading Benchmark Performance
> Industry Leading Shipping Turn-Around
> Reliability and Support When it Counts

Components:
AMD Dual Core Turion TL-60 X2 64Bit Advanced Processor
4096MB High Speed DDR2 667MHz Extreme Performance Memory
100GB @ 7200RPM High Speed Storage
No External Storage
8X High Speed Dual Layer +/- DVD-RW Drive
SLI Dual nVIDIA Geforce GO 7950GTX 1GB RAM X-TREME GPU
20.1" WSXGA+ Super Resolution GlassVision Wide Screen Cinema Display
8 Channel Advanced SRS WOW Surround Sound System
High Speed 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit Networking Adapter
Internal High Speed V90k Dial Up Modem
Built In 802.11ABG 54mbps High Speed Wireless Adapter
Integrated Advanced Bluetooth Wireless Adapter
No EVDO (Evolution Data Only) High Speed Internet Connection
No GPS Location Device
Advanced TV Tuner + Remote Control
No Floppy Drive
No Extra Mouse
No Biometrics
No Controller
No Operating System (Advanced Users Only)
No Notebook Security
No Laptop Cooler
No Extra AC Adapter
No Extra Battery
No Car Power Adapter
No Notebook Carrying Bag
No Burning or DVD Software
No Virus or Spyware Protection
Dead Pixel Protection Not Included
Standard Limited 1 Year Warranty Coverage
No Office Productivity Package

About $1000 more than I wanted to spend originally, but I think I'll be happy with it.

Opinions?

Oh, and finally question...


Does " AMD Dual Core Turion TL-60 X2 64Bit Advanced Processor"

Mean there are x2 as in two of them, or is X2 a product name? Wait, I'll go google it now.

Product name... and apparently upgrading to a 64 would mean a .33 GHZ increase in speed on both sides... about 240 dollars more for that, is it worth it? And for that matter is the 120 dollars more for the 60 instead of the 56 worth it? onlly .2 GHz

Memo will edit. brain failing... sleep needed!

[Talfrey]

Hooray! Archonic Energy!

Well, actually I've moved well beyond that all...


I'm looking now at the aviator (deciding on a smaller laptop) and wondering if in the future I will be able to upgrade the Ram and Video Cards on my own.

My current top pics are...

Aviator: $3,463.00
or EQ7

* Minimum 72-Hour Burn-in & testing with 128-Point Quality Control Process
* Configured and tested with latest qualified drivers and operating system updates
* Arctic Silver 5 High Tech Polysynthetic Heat Dissipation Agent
* Audio DJ feature allows CD playback even when system is turned off
* TV-Tuner with Remote - (optional)
* DVI Port for Digital output to Flat Panel Monitors

* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Standard Color / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.67GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* (No Memory Selected) / 1
* (No Memory Selected) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* (No RAID Configuration) / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* Additional 12-Cell Lithium-Ion Battery for EQ7 (Spare) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Internal Bluetooth Module for EQ7 / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate x64 CD & Manual Pre-Installed & Configured / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 1 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1

System Price (excluding shipping): $3,463.00

And then buy a pair of 2 GB Ram sticks, for 4GB total.

ooor....

XTreme Laptops: $3,779
Xtreme 917V Fusion
17" WUXGA (1920 x 1200) Super Wide Angle Glass View LCD (In Stock)
DUAL NVIDIA® GeFORCE Go 7950 GTX w/512MB SLI Mode (1024MB total) - XP Pro Only
Intel® E6400 (2.13 GHz) Core™ 2 Duo CPU - 2MB L2 Cache 1066MHz FSB
SALE! 4096MB DDR2 667MHz Premium Micron RAM 2 DIMM
NEW! High Speed Transfer 120GB SATA300 HDD 7200 RPM
Optional Second Hard Drive (Fits in Dedicated 2nd HDD Bay)
8X24X10X24 DVD/CDRW Combo Drive (8x DVDRW multi available)
12 Cell Smart Li-Ion Battery - Included
110/220V 180W Auto Switching AC Adapter - Included
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D 8 channel Azalia Sound System (2 blt-in speakers)
4 Speakers plus Subwoofer Integrated System - Included
No OS Desired - CD with Drivers and Utilities Only
SALE! 802.11ABG TURBO 108Mbps Internal WLAN
Standard 12 Month Parts and Labor Mail-In Coverage
Internal Bluetooth Wireless Mini PCI
Optional Third Hard Drive (Fits in Dedicated 3rd HDD Bay)
RAID - None Enabled (Multiple HDDs Required)
Internal World Wide TV Tuner W/Remote PAL & NTSC
Built-in 1.3M High Resolution Digital Video Camera
7 in 4 Flash Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC) Standard

In general terms of bang for buck, Aviator delivers, hardcore... (note: The other one has no OS, I chose it would be cheaper to find it on my own)

Buuut.

I REAAAALLLY want 4 Gigs of Ram. Anyway of telling if getting the Aviator and buying a pair of gig sticks on my own would

A: Be worth it
and
B: Work?

And I'll ask it again since it's a driving question in my mind...

Is it possible to replace graphics cards on a laptop easily? Eventually I want to get dual DirectX 10 graphics cards, but I don't know if they'll work.

[SMEE]

You seem to got some nice set ups, but I must point that you'll want a geforce from the 8800 (GTX or Ultra) series instead of the 7900 series for their support to DX 10 and faster chipsets.

Unfortunatly, I'm not sure if the geforce 8 family is avaliable for laptops as for now.

About RAM memory, anything short of 4GBs is asking for trouble in a gaming computer. 2GBs is fine, but fine is not enough when we're speaking of powerhouses. Go with at least 4GBs.

[Talfrey]

You seem to got some nice set ups, but I must point that you'll want a geforce from the 8800 (GTX or Ultra) series instead of the 7900 series for their support to DX 10 and faster chipsets.

Unfortunatly, I'm not sure if the geforce 8 family is avaliable for laptops as for now.

About RAM memory, anything short of 4GBs is asking for trouble in a gaming computer. 2GBs is fine, but fine is not enough when we're speaking of powerhouses. Go with at least 4GBs.

Indeed, GeForce 8 family cards are far and few between, mostly available solely in prebuilt systems. It is for this reason that I plan to not eventually replace my video cards, assuming that's possible.

And the problem with a 4GB system is...

It's REALLY hard to find. XTreme Notebooks has been the only reasonably priced company to offer it.

Unless I've been looking at Aviator wrong..

Perhaps if I choose the 4GB card option... of course! It says it has two cards, I just don't stick anything in on the other side!

Instant 4GB system!

GENIUS!

Would...

* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology - Qty: 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents - Qty: 1
* Standard Color - Qty: 1
* (Do not paint any part) - Qty: 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.67GHz - Qty: 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 - Qty: 1
* 4GB PC5300 DDR2-667 KIT SODIMM (2 Modules, Requires 64-Bit OS) - Qty: 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI - Qty: 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control - Qty: 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache - Qty: 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software - Qty: 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface - Qty: 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer - Qty: 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller - Qty: 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express - Qty: 1
* Internal Bluetooth Module for EQ7 - Qty: 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem - Qty: 1
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate x64 CD & Manual Pre-Installed & Configured - Qty: 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) - Qty: 1
* 1 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support - Qty: 1

Work with Windows XP Pro?

[SMEE]

For such computer, you'd need XP pro 64bit or Vista.

Also, with a 60GB hd you'll find yourself in need of free space quite too soon.
Get at least one with 100GB.

[Archonic Energy]

For such computer, you'd need XP pro 64bit or Vista.

Also, with a 60GB hd you'll find yourself in need of free space quite too soon.
Get at least one with 100GB.

seconded on both points. i find my lappies 200GB RAID Array can get quite cluttered ( it's why i have a 0.5GB external HDD)

have a look at some of the On-line PC parts places & see if you can source the RAM yourself you may find that you can... hell you may find you can find named/preimum sticks for the price you are paying for them

4GB of ram is overkill... At the moment. give it a year and you may find that the Extra RAM is worth it... espically if you are going to use Vista, which When DX10 games become common-place you are! (Bloody MS making DX10 Vista exclusive)

the E6700 is number 3 on the Power list at the moment so it'll stay near the top of the list for a while.

[Talfrey]

Well... I have a Terabyte External hard drive.

Aviator EQ7
Final Build?


* Minimum 72-Hour Burn-in & testing with 128-Point Quality Control Process
* Configured and tested with latest qualified drivers and operating system updates
* Arctic Silver 5 High Tech Polysynthetic Heat Dissipation Agent
* Audio DJ feature allows CD playback even when system is turned off
* TV-Tuner with Remote - (optional)
* DVI Port for Digital output to Flat Panel Monitors

* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Reflexxion Series Black Sapphire Metallic / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.67GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* RAID (0) Striped Drive Configuration - Best Performance / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* 60GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* (No Additional Battery Pack) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Internal Bluetooth Module for EQ7 / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate x64 CD & Manual Pre-Installed & Configured / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 1 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1

System Price (excluding shipping): $3,613.00

I have a spare copy of Windows XP Pro, though I might as well get Vista while I'm getting a new comp. (plus it makes them find all the drivers)

And ONE more time...

Will I be able to replace the graphics cards with DirectX 10 Cards later? Does anyone know? The company don't know... I don't know... I is sad.

[Talfrey]

I finally decided on one and I'm sticking to my decision.

This shall become my new Laptop.

*ahem*

Aviator EQ7: $3,675.00

* Minimum 72-Hour Burn-in & testing with 128-Point Quality Control Process
* Configured and tested with latest qualified drivers and operating system updates
* Arctic Silver 5 High Tech Polysynthetic Heat Dissipation Agent
* Audio DJ feature allows CD playback even when system is turned off
* TV-Tuner with Remote - (optional)
* DVI Port for Digital output to Flat Panel Monitors

* Aviator EQ7: Extreme Performance Core 2 "Conroe" Notebook w/ SLI Technology / 1
* Aviator EQ7 in Dark Silver with Graphite Accents / 1
* Reflexxion Series Black Sapphire Metallic / 1
* (Do not paint any part) / 1
* Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 | 4MB L2 Cache | 2.67GHz / 1
* Intel® P965 Express Chipset + ICH8R System Board for EQ7 / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* 1024MB Mushkin PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM - Low Latency (5-5-5-15) / 1
* DUAL Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX PCI-Express 512MB in SLI / 1
* Built-in TV Tuner with Remote Control / 1
* RAID (0) Striped Drive Configuration - Best Performance / 1
* 100GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* 100GB 7200rpm Serial-ATA Hard Drive with NCQ & 8MB Cache / 1
* (No Mobile Hard Drive Selected) / 1
* 8X DVD ± R/W Drive Dual Layer w/ DVD Recording Software / 1
* (No Additional Battery Pack) / 1
* 17" WUXGA 1920x1200 VividView™ Display w/ Super Clear Glossy Surface / 1
* Built-in 4-Speaker High Definition Sound System with SRS WOW & Subwoofer / 1
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet Controller / 1
* Intel PRO/WIRELESS 3945ABG (802.11abg) Wi-Fi Mini PCI-Express / 1
* Internal Bluetooth Module for EQ7 / 1
* Integrated V.92 56K Fax/Data Modem / 1
* (No Keyboard Selected) / 1
* (No Mouse Selected) / 1
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate x64 CD & Manual Pre-Installed & Configured / 1
* (No Disaster Recovery DVD) / 1
* (No Accidental Damage Protection) / 1
* 1 Year Platinum Warranty with 24/7 Toll-Free Tech Support / 1


I may buy an extra battery, and upgrade the warranties...

But other than that...

I'm GOLDEN.

[Archonic Energy]

Will I be able to replace the graphics cards with DirectX 10 Cards later? Does anyone know? The company don't know... I don't know... I is sad.

yes... IF you can source them of course.

[Talfrey]

I'll leave the sourcing to a time when they are widely available, for now Dual 7950 GTXs wiill just have to suffice. You know, cause they're not very powerful and all:smallbiggrin:

[Archonic Energy]

I'll leave the sourcing to a time when they are widely available, for now Dual 7950 GTXs wiill just have to suffice. You know, cause they're not very powerful and all:smallbiggrin:

espically when they get hit by hammers by those without them :smallwink:

*looks for hammer*

[Talfrey]

Noooes!

Please, I'll do anything! Don't smash my babies!