Incantrix and Domain Casters

[Jeargroth]

Ok, playgrounders need some clarification or take on RAW. I am looking at a Elf Wizard Generalist, also taking Domain casting. Intent is to build into Incantrix and IOSV.

Problem... Domain caster specifies that you can't specialize. IoSV requires you give up a school, to the effect of specializing. This making it not possible to be a domain caster and an IoSV. Am I interpretting this correctly?

[Uncle Pine]

You can enter Incantatrix as a Domain Wizard because gaining a prohibited school doesn't mean you specialize in another one: you don't gain any of the benefits a specialized Wizard gets like additional spell slots or a Spellcraft bonus when you're trying to learn a new spell from your specialized school, for instance.

[Crake]

It's also worth noting that domain wizard is an alternate class feature for wizards. It means it cannot choose to take the options that a wizard has to specialize, essentially replacing that class feature for wizards. If another class, or prestige class for that matter, gives you a separate option to specialize in some way, you can totally take that option, you juse lose out on th level 1 wizard option to specialize.

[RedMage125]

My main bone of contention is that Elven Generalist ALSO requires you to give up the option to specialize.

The way I read it, you cannot be both a Domain Wizard and an Elven Generalist together because they both are ACFs exchanging the same trait away.

[Pluto!]

Domain wizard doesn't explicitly lose the ability to specialize. It just happens to be an option incompatible with specializing. It's not something I'd allow because I don't get my rocks off by being willfully obtuse and don't particularly enjoy that trait in others, but if someone wants to argue that RAW doesn't explicitly forbid it, I don't think they're technically incorrect.

But beside that, you can still give up schools with either Elf Generalist or Domain Wizard because you still don't get the benefit from specializing.

[Crake]

My main bone of contention is that Elven Generalist ALSO requires you to give up the option to specialize.

The way I read it, you cannot be both a Domain Wizard and an Elven Generalist together because they both are ACFs exchanging the same trait away.

I believe it's technically raw, based on the way it's worded, in that both domain wizard and elven generalist say that the wizard cannot specialize, but neither actually specifically say that it replaces the ability. If they had been worded as "[...] replaces the ability to specialize" then it would be incompatible by RAW, but both simply say "[...] cannot specialize", and thus both can technically be taken, because they aren't specialized.

I wouldn't allow it though, as I think it was clearly intented as a replacement, not a freebie.

[RedMage125]

I believe it's technically raw, based on the way it's worded, in that both domain wizard and elven generalist say that the wizard cannot specialize, but neither actually specifically say that it replaces the ability. If they had been worded as "[...] replaces the ability to specialize" then it would be incompatible by RAW, but both simply say "[...] cannot specialize", and thus both can technically be taken, because they aren't specialized.

I wouldn't allow it though, as I think it was clearly intented as a replacement, not a freebie.

AFB at the moment, but I'm PRETTY SURE Elven Generalist uses the phrase "This option replaces the wizards ability to specialize in a single school of magic".

And either way, both of them are ACFs, and the whole purpose of ACFs is that they REPLACE something. It's like if you sold your car to 2 different individuals, and think that it's legal for you to walk away with the money from both people.

[Crake]

AFB at the moment, but I'm PRETTY SURE Elven Generalist uses the phrase "This option replaces the wizards ability to specialize in a single school of magic".

And either way, both of them are ACFs, and the whole purpose of ACFs is that they REPLACE something. It's like if you sold your car to 2 different individuals, and think that it's legal for you to walk away with the money from both people.

Only one of them needs to use the wrong wording. Elven generalist replaces their ability, domain wizard says cannot specialize, and an elven generalist isn't specialized, so accordingly it's A-OK. That said I think most people would agree that RAI, yes domain was intended to replace, not just be a freebie to any non-specced wizards.

[Kraken]

It hasn't been mentioned as a possibility, but just in case, is the OP looking at the 3.0 version of incantatrix perhaps? Because that version very explicitly does become a specialist (in abjuration), even if they enter as a non-wizard, which probably has a lot of confusing ramifications that aren't worth thinking about. The 3.5 version in Player's Guide to Faerun definitely does not become a specialist though, so an elf generalist or domain wizard (or both, if you DM allows) can both definitely enter incantatrix without a problem.

[Crake]

It hasn't been mentioned as a possibility, but just in case, is the OP looking at the 3.0 version of incantatrix perhaps? Because that version very explicitly does become a specialist (in abjuration), even if they enter as a non-wizard, which probably has a lot of confusing ramifications that aren't worth thinking about. The 3.5 version in Player's Guide to Faerun definitely does not become a specialist though, so an elf generalist or domain wizard (or both, if you DM allows) can both definitely enter incantatrix without a problem.

Either way, it doesn't matter, because both elven generalist and domain wizard only lose the ability to specialize by means of the wizard class, not by any other class (or prestige class), so even the 3.0 incantatrix is fine.

[atemu1234]

My main bone of contention is that Elven Generalist ALSO requires you to give up the option to specialize.

The way I read it, you cannot be both a Domain Wizard and an Elven Generalist together because they both are ACFs exchanging the same trait away.

Eh, that's High TO, though.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Eh, that's High TO, though.

A elven domain generalist is more high PO. Neither of these break the game particularly more than wizard. Their biggest advantage is to add a bit more flexibility and staying power. In TO a wizard has enough of both that he does not have to worry about the bonuses from elf generalist or domain wizard.

[Chronos]

I think the short answer is that, while domain wizard and elven generalist are technically compatible with each other by strict RAW, they come close enough to being incompatible that it would be quite reasonable and expected for a DM to rule that they're incompatible. Heck, either one by itself is too good for my tastes, as either one gives you most of the benefit of specialization with none of the drawbacks. So ask your DM.