Changelings and Warshaper

[zergling.exe]

Do changelings qualify for Warshaper?



Do changelings qualify for Warshaper?
Arguably yes. Of course asking that question is probably going to lead this thread to descending into a flaming ball of hate.



Arguably yes. Of course asking that question is probably going to lead this thread to descending into a flaming ball of hate.What's arguable? Are there people who argue that changelings don't have the shapechanger subtype? Or are they arguing that changelings can't get +4 BAB? Because both of those arguments seem obviously wrong.



What's arguable? Are there people who argue that changelings don't have the shapechanger subtype? Or are they arguing that changelings can't get +4 BAB? Because both of those arguments seem obviously wrong.
It would probably be more the "a form other than their own" bit, combined with being based off of disguise self rather than alter self or some other form change.




It would probably be more the "a form other than their own" bit, combined with being based off of disguise self rather than alter self or some other form change.
Except the changeling ability actually changes its body to another form. It's Alter Self without any special abilities granted due to the new form.



Except the changeling ability actually changes its body to another form. It's Alter Self without any special abilities granted due to the new form.

Except that it is disguise self with actual physical changes, rather than alter self without abilities.

Changelings have the supernatural ability to alter their appearance as though using a disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not their possessions.
There is a difference, and because of that some DMs may believe that changelings do not qualify as being in a form that is not their own. For the record, I'm not saying that changelings do not, merely trying to point out the reasoning to Troacctid about why they may not, depending on DM view.


There is only one question that you have to ask to see if changelings qualify: Does your body change into a different form?

The answer is unequivocably "yes." Any answer that is not "yes" is demonstrably wrong.

Demonstrably wrong or not, it is a conclusion that can be reached from what is written, and that is what I was trying to point out.

Anyone else wanting to get this out do it here rather than in the other thread.

[Troacctid]

So to be clear, your argument is that changelings are 100% demonstrably compatible with Warshaper, but that some people (not you) might, erroneously, believe otherwise?

Not to put too fine a point in it, but why do we care what those people think? There are people who believe skill checks automatically fail on a natural 1. That doesn't mean it's a matter of debate.

[zergling.exe]

So to be clear, your argument is that changelings are 100% demonstrably compatible with Warshaper, but that some people (not you) might, erroneously, believe otherwise?

Not to put too fine a point in it, but why do we care what those people think? There are people who believe skill checks automatically fail on a natural 1. That doesn't mean it's a matter of debate.

The point was that as Ellowryn said, some people might read it differently. You did not see how they could, so I decided to explain how. Rubik started an argument on it, so I made this thread. Now the other thread doesn't have to worry about people arguing about it there. And yes, I do believe changelings are totally capable of using warshaper.

[Necroticplague]

They unquestionably qualify. Simply having the shapechanger subtype qualifies you, which changelings do have .

[RedMage125]

They unquestionably qualify. Simply having the shapechanger subtype qualifies you, which changelings do have .

I'm AFB atm, but I do seem to remember (shapechanger) subtype being sufficient. An infected lycanthrope likewise qualifies.

[Chronos]

To be clear, there are two questions: Whether they can qualify, and whether, having qualified, they can make use of the class features. All that's needed to take the class is to have the shapechanger subtype, and they definitely have that. But to use the class, you have to be in a form other than your own, and that's where the question might lie.

It's a more relevant issue for shifters. They, too, can easily qualify for the class, but shifting (in addition to only being a few times per day) doesn't turn you into another form; it just turns you into "you, but with a longer snout", or whatever.

For what it's worth, I think it's pretty clear that a changeling's minor shapeshift does count as "a form other than your own". Changelings do have a "natural form" (that drab gray thing), and their bodies do go through real physical changes with real physical effects (for instance, a changeling in a female form can become pregnant).