Archtype benefits: Is swapping imbalanced?

[The Shadowdove]

Hey everyone,

Are the class archetype progressions meant to be equal? As in, are all class archetypes supposed to be linearly equivalent inabilities?

If I took the level 3 or 6 from a single class's list of archetypes and swapped them, am I to assume it would not make the class overpowers?

For example: Rogue thief benefit at level 3, assassin benefit at level 6.

Here's what lead to this question.

I have a player who'd like to play a monk who is about 'harmony' and utilizing the 'light and darkness' within a balance of each other.

Originally, she was going to play a sun soul monk (Our group bought the SCAG).

However, after looking at the shadow monk, we've entertained the thought of intermixing the sun soul/shadow monk abilities for flavor/playstyle.

Such as:
Lvl 3: sun soul monk ability
Lvl6: Shadow monk ability
Etc.


I understand 'some' class benefits correlate with previous benefits, and would be useless without. Yet, my question still stands in relevance to the others?


Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'm always impressed by the superior booksmarts/creativity.


-Dove

[SharkForce]

no, archetype abilities are not balanced according to level. they are broadly fairly balanced across 20 levels, more or less, but some get their good abilities at low levels, and some get their good abilities at high levels.

for example, the champion has kinda lousy abilities clear up to level 18 where they get an ability much more awesome than eldritch knight or battlemaster get. in contrast, the battlemaster gets most of its power at level 3, and the eldritch knight is a fairly steady-ish progression with slightly more power at the end than the beginning.

another classic example is the diviner wizard, which gets an absolutely amazing ability at level 2 compared to just about any other wizard archetype, while something like illusionist gets fairly good but not amazing abilities until they eventually get to make real illusions.

that doesn't necessarily mean you can't make a new archetype by taking abilities from various other archetypes. if you want shadow step and ki energy blasts, you can certainly make a monk that has both. you'll just need to do the balance work yourself rather than simply relying on the levels.

[Safety Sword]

I don't think they're meant to be interchangeable.

In fact, across classes you'll break the game.

Across archetypes you're going to have fewer problems, but you'll probably still break something.

You also have to consider that the features are not all supposed to be equal. Some levels are for feel (so called "Ribbon Abilities") and some features give the archetype it's mechanical punch.

You have a unique situation though and a player that has a concept they want to realise. Careful stepping (into shadows most probably) is required. You should weigh it up and work with the player to make the character they want. Just make sure they don't get all of the crunch features and break it.

Edit: I make a 10 ft move toward Sharkforce and raise my right hand as I approach him.

[Flashy]

no, archetype abilities are not balanced according to level. they are broadly fairly balanced across 20 levels, more or less, but some get their good abilities at low levels, and some get their good abilities at high levels.

Indeed. Wizard makes a fine example of this. Diviner 2, Necromancer 6, Evoker 10, Evoker 14 is much better at dealing damage than a straight evoker would be. 10th level in Necromancer is mostly just resistance to necrotic damage, while 10th in conjuration largely removes the need to make concentration checks and 10th in abjuration makes you the best counterspeller/dispeller in the system.

[Anderlith]

I'd avoid it on principle just to avoid potential breaking. & definitely avoid archetype sharing between classes lest you see Bladeslinger Druids or such.

Maybe look it over & cherry pick a few abilities of one to replace the other but I wouldn't just trade out every other ability

[krugaan]

that would make for an interesting class:

when you gain a level, pick any class and any sub spec and gain the abilities *for only that level* (ie if you get 20th level fighter you don't get 4 attacks unless you took fighter 5th and 11th too). Improvements to a skill require you to have the base skill first (cutting words requires inspiration dice) and you must take the improvement sequentially (need the d6 and d8 improvements to get the d10 for inspiration).

multiclassing rules for spell slots still apply.

gain no ASI's or feats unless variant human.

gain no proficiencies / skills except for your starting ones.

wonder exactly how broken that might be?