Dragonfire Adept Gestalt Help

[JNAProductions]

First thing: I'd like this kept as simple as possible. No Artificer, no full caster at all, preferably no casting other than at-will invocations.

Now, under the KISS guidelines, what'd be the best gestalt for a Dragonfire Adept?

[Rubik]

Warblade or crusader. DFA only requires Con and one or two feats to be super-effective, and both it and the initiator classes have enough passive abilities to work well together, especially since you can use metabreath'd Entangling Exhalation at the beginning of a fight to debuff and use maneuvers to mop up. None of them really interfere with the other's abilities, and there's enough in the way of swift and move action abilities on the initiators to have stuff to improve your abilities even when breathing fire (or whatever).

I would suggest a dragonborn warforged DFA 20//initiator class 20, using dragonborn's wings aspect to get you flight, so you don't have much in the way of item dependence.

Plus, you really can't go wrong with initiators. They're effective no matter what maneuvers you take.

[torrasque666]

Plus, you really can't go wrong with initiators. They're effective no matter what maneuvers you take.
Not too effective if you only take Stone Dragon maneuvers in a flight-heavy campaign. :tongue:

[Rubik]

Not too effective if you only take Stone Dragon maneuvers in a flight-heavy campaign. :tongue:Mountain Hammer and Elder Mountain Hammer are perfectly viable maneuvers. Those are the only Stone Dragon maneuvers in the book, right?

[torrasque666]

Mountain Hammer and Elder Mountain Hammer are perfectly viable maneuvers. Those are the only Stone Dragon maneuvers in the book, right?
Still can't be used in the air.

[Rubik]

Still can't be used in the air.But you don't use them against enemies anyway. They're for breaking through walls and sundering shackles and stuff.

How often do you encounter flying walls?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Depends on what you want to do. DFA has solid BFC/debuff abilities and decent passive/utility stuff, and doesn't require anything but Con. It's like an incarnum class in that it goes well with anything. "Good offense" is probably your only really need.

Initiators are the most powerful option if you're avoiding casters. But since that's also pretty intensive... How about a Swift Hunter archer on the other side? Entangle everyone then Flyby Attack + Greater Manyshot then to death before they close. DFA gets that lovely Knowledge boosting Invocation, so throw on Knowledge Devotion for added fun.

[JNAProductions]

What is this Knowledge Devotion I keep hearing people mention?

[Troacctid]

I'd look into taking a template on the other side, if possible. Phrenic, Shadow, Saint, Mulhorandi Divine Minion, Lolth-Touched, Half-Celestial (especially the BoED version updated to have a reduced LA), and Dark are all pretty decent.


What is this Knowledge Devotion I keep hearing people mention?

It's a feat from Complete Champion.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Incarnate gestalt levels can make any character better at what they do.

Binder gestalt levels can add a lot of useful effects to your character that last all day.

Consider including Werebear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm#werebear) (Template Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a)) 9/ Warshaper (CW) 4. Your other seven levels can be more level adjustment (Half-Giant Primordial Giant is LA +1, Half-Ogre Primordial Giant is LA +2, etc.), Crusader and/or Warblade and/or Swordsage for some useful maneuvers and stances, Binder, Incarnate, etc. Possibly even pick up some Warlock levels late in the build, assuming your 'greater invocations' and 'dark invocations' class features gained from DFA will apply to Warlock as well, since its access to those higher tiers of invocations is identically named and thus the same effect.

It's sad that you're refusing spellcasting classes, considering there's spells like Blinding Breath, Dispelling Breath, and Breath Weapon Admixture.

[Rubik]

Consider including Werebear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm#werebear) (Template Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a)) 9/ Warshaper (CW) 4.Wouldn't the divine minion (http://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/lore/magicbooks13.shtml) be significantly better, given the massive LA on the werebear? Or you could use the anthropomorphic animal template from Savage Species for a black bear, with the Humanoid Shape invocation, depending on if you want animal or hybrid form for your lycanthropy. Heck, you could have an anthropomorphic animal divine minion with Humanoid Shape and get the best parts of lycanthrope with (comparatively speaking) hardly any downsides at all.

[Grod_The_Giant]

What is this Knowledge Devotion I keep hearing people mention?
It's a feat from Complete Champion, as mentioned, that lets you make a Knowledge check to get up to +5 attack and damage against a specific monster type for one fight. Unlike most Devotion feats, it has no supernatural component and unlimited uses, so it's real nice.


Wouldn't the divine minion (http://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/lore/magicbooks13.shtml) be significantly better, given the massive LA on the werebear?
Or, you know, not, given how much cheese is associated with that template.

[atemu1234]

It's a feat from Complete Champion, as mentioned, that lets you make a Knowledge check to get up to +5 attack and damage against a specific monster type for one fight. Unlike most Devotion feats, it has no supernatural component and unlimited uses, so it's real nice.


Or, you know, not, given how much cheese is associated with that template.

Eh, one can use something cheesy without necessarily using cheese.

Or are you suggesting no one should play a kobold, because they could pun-pun?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, here are my thoughts. Following KISS and flavored for draconic colors

Grath of the Red
Water Orc - DFA //Barbarian - Boost your con, rage, and unload with a metabreath cone of doom before wading into combat with your greatax. You have a wopping huge d12 HD and silly high con to keep you alive while you attack wildly. Fire and rage, cruelty and strength!

Frostbeard the Guardian
Arctic Dwarf - Dwarf Paragon 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Dungeoncrasher Fighter X - A wall of ice and steel that will not bend to anything. A craggy mountain that stands unbroken in the frozen wasteland. Stack con into the roof and knock your enemies around.

Merryweather of Sliver
Changling factotum / chameleon // DFA - Here you have a many of infinite faces and unlimited skill. He embodies the silver dragon habit of becoming new people and experiencing new things.

[Lhurgyof]

Wouldn't Dragonfire Adept pair somewhat well with the Dragon Shaman? Being able to swap out auras for invocations would make you all around better at DFA'ing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Wouldn't Dragonfire Adept pair somewhat well with the Dragon Shaman? Being able to swap out auras for invocations would make you all around better at DFA'ing.
Not really. Dragon Shaman gets you second rate auras and not much else. Medium BAB? Don't need it. Breath Weapon? Scales? Minor SLAs? Got a better version. Marshal would be better for auras- it would at least get you better proficiencies and more relevant bonuses. Or you could just take Draconic Aura.

[Ellowryn]

Grath of the Red
Water Orc - DFA //Barbarian - Boost your con, rage, and unload with a metabreath cone of doom before wading into combat with your greatax. You have a wopping huge d12 HD and silly high con to keep you alive while you attack wildly. Fire and rage, cruelty and strength!


Oh! Add on Dragonborn, Arctic, and any other LA 0 templates that add Con. Rock almost quadruple digit health before you start blasting and hacking.

[Rubik]

You could always buy a scroll of Polymorph Any Object to find the highest Con monster at or under 15 HD with abilities you want to use, take Assume Supernatural Ability if it has a (Su) you want to use, and go to town. If the monster in question is an outsider or something, take a race with the outsider type to qualify via PAO.