The reason you take necropolitan?

[SangoProduction]

I assume it's to make you have -- Con, and get a net positive on Hit Points as a caster, right?

[Draconium]

Along with the buttload of Undead immunities for an LA of +0.

[Curmudgeon]

It's for all the benefits you gain when you have the Undead type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType). Things like being a Sorcerer and suddenly getting to use your Charisma modifier for Concentration checks. Immunity to all mind-affecting effects so you can start thumbing your Undead nose at Enchanters. Immunity to poison, paralysis, sleep, stunning, & c.

It's a whole grab-bag of power-ups.

[Elkad]

Turning the Con you dumped into an effective 18 (for hitpoint purposes) (d4 to d12 is a +4/level gain).

And all the undead traits.


No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Oh, and for the chance of being blasted to ash when you meet a high-level cleric :)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Also, let's say you were made into a Necropolitan by an Enhanced Undead Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants) 1/ Dread Necromancer 8+ with all of the Corpsecrafter feats, in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present. This gives you the following benefits on top of what Necropolitan gives you, for absolutely free:

+6 HP per HD
+4 Enhancement to Str and Dex
+2 natural armor
+10 ft. land speed
+4 initiative
+4 turn resistance
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks

[Deophaun]

Also, let's say you were made into a Necropolitan by an Enhanced Undead Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants) 1/ Dread Necromancer 8+ with all of the Corpsecrafter feats, in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present. This gives you the following benefits on top of what Necropolitan gives you, for absolutely free:
Plus, when you die, you explode!

[Curmudgeon]

This gives you the following benefits on top of what Necropolitan gives you, for absolutely free
Is there something in the rules that states this is required to be free? I'd expect the spellcaster to charge everything they can get away with for those benefits. In short, "absolutely free" really becomes "ruinously expensive".

[Malimar]

Also, let's say you were made into a Necropolitan by an Enhanced Undead Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants) 1/ Dread Necromancer 8+ with all of the Corpsecrafter feats, in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate with an evil altar present. This gives you the following benefits on top of what Necropolitan gives you, for absolutely free:

+6 HP per HD
+4 Enhancement to Str and Dex
+2 natural armor
+10 ft. land speed
+4 initiative
+4 turn resistance
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks

Are there actually DMs out there who allow this? I mean, I can see maybe probably allowing it if a PC spent the build resources on being the described best necromancer ever and then necropolitanized the rest of the party. But there probably aren't any NPCs in my setting with that build, and certainly none willing to necropolitanize an adventurer.

EDIT: Plus what Curmudgeon said.

[Zanos]

Are there actually DMs out there who allow this? I mean, I can see maybe probably allowing it if a PC spent the build resources on being the described best necromancer ever and then necropolitanized the rest of the party. But there probably aren't any NPCs in my setting with that build, and certainly none willing to necropolitanize an adventurer.

EDIT: Plus what Curmudgeon said.
Half of them also don't work, because they only apply to necromancy spells. The ritual is not said to be a spell anywhere.

[Spider_Jerusalem]

I always assumed it was to stop those annoying biological functions, so the other members of your party never catch you pooping on the wilds during travel.

It also prevents that nasty halfling rogue from switching your drink with ogre piss.

[Zanos]

I always assumed it was to stop those annoying biological functions, so the other members of your party never catch you pooping on the wilds during travel.

It also prevents that nasty halfling rogue from switching your drink with ogre piss.
I use it as a racism detector. Just because I'm a skeleton, we aren't cool anymore? Damn bone bigots.

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Aren't skeletons immune to cool stuff or something like that?

(It's RAW, even though it's probably not RAI, since a nice flaming skull can be cool as hell.)

[Crake]

Are there actually DMs out there who allow this? I mean, I can see maybe probably allowing it if a PC spent the build resources on being the described best necromancer ever and then necropolitanized the rest of the party. But there probably aren't any NPCs in my setting with that build, and certainly none willing to necropolitanize an adventurer.

EDIT: Plus what Curmudgeon said.

I have a noble vampire family that does this for all their fledgeling vampires, as well as using the dark chaos shuffle to swap out the 5 free vampire feats for any feats of their choosing. Of course, the only people they turn is their living descendants, who view being turned as the highest honor, so it's not exactly open to just anyone. That said, I did allow a player to make a PC from this family using the vampire savage progression. They only actually got the benefits 7 levels in when they finally became undead.

But I would definitely not allow this for just some random level 2 character, unless it was forced upon them, and they were immediately controlled afterwards, at which point, I guess I didn't really allow it after all, did I? :smalltongue:

I mean, what does a level 2 character really have to offer a level 9+ necromancer beyond their eternal servitude?

[Uncle Pine]

The only downside is that without the Human Heritage feat you are going to die the first time someone throws a barrel of holy water at you.

[icefractal]

Are there actually DMs out there who allow this? I mean, I can see maybe probably allowing it if a PC spent the build resources on being the described best necromancer ever and then necropolitanized the rest of the party. But there probably aren't any NPCs in my setting with that build, and certainly none willing to necropolitanize an adventurer.

EDIT: Plus what Curmudgeon said.DN 8 is pushing it, but really that only adds a little bit (+2 more hp/level) onto what you get with an Enhanced Undead Wizard. Skipping DN, it's still not automatic, but shouldn't be impossible to find, if there are Wizards and Necromancy in the setting.

Now if I was running, you do need some way of finding said Necromancer and convincing them to do the ritual. For example:
* Take them as a cohort.
* Be a member of an organization with those kind of connections.
* Pay someone to do it, which could be potentially fairly expensive (comparing it to magic items), but since it has no cost to the Necromancer, they may be willing to accept future services in exchange. Or find two Necromancers and try to get them bidding against each-other.

Being created near a Desecrated evil altar is pretty much free though; the only time any non-cannon-fodder undead would be created without that is under desperate conditions.

[Crake]

The only downside is that without the Human Heritage feat you are going to die the first time someone throws a barrel of holy water at you.

Only for those capable of tolerating insane levels of lactose. Expect books to be thrown at you in all but the most nauseatingly cheesy games.

[Uncle Pine]

Only for those capable of tolerating insane levels of lactose. Expect books to be thrown at you in all but the most nauseatingly cheesy games.

I'm not sure if this is directed to the necropolitan taking the Human Heritage feat or the DM throwing barrels of holy water at the undead PC.

[Crake]

I'm not sure if this is directed to the necropolitan taking the Human Heritage feat or the DM throwing barrels of holy water at the undead PC.

Expecting human heritage to work on any acquired template (since it's a racial feat taken at first level meant to show the prominence of your human heritage, which has no bearing on something that happens later on)

[Killer Angel]

Sadly, you are no more able to taste coffee

[sleepyphoenixx]

The only downside is that without the Human Heritage feat you are going to die the first time someone throws a barrel of holy water at you.

And if you stay human you'll die the first time someone uses Unseen Servant to drop a bag full of alchemist's fire or acid on you or sets off an object with a few dozen castings of Explosive Runes on it.
That's a level of cheese that's allowed very rarely in practice though, because it makes a complete mockery of combat.

There's also the fact that there's a sidebar in RoD that mentions just who is eligible to take Human Heritage. Undead are not among them, no matter what corpse they're made from.
The only way to use it this way is to ignore the part of the feat that says "See the Variant: Half-Humans and Humanlike Races sidebar, page 150, for more about races eligible to select this feat".

[Gnaeus]

I don't see where anyone has mentioned the potential upsides to being healed by negative energy. Things like a dread necro getting unlimited downtime healing, or casting Harm spells on himself. Evil PF clerics burst healing themselves along with all their undead minions. That kind of thing.

[Uncle Pine]

Other cheesy (dis)advantages:
- Being immune to death by Love's Pain spamming.
- Being immune to death by Ghoul Glyph combined with Uncanny Forethought and followed by a coup de grace.
- Not being able to abuse Festering Anger.

EDIT:

And if you stay human you'll die the first time someone uses Unseen Servant to drop a bag full of alchemist's fire or acid on you or sets off an object with a few dozen castings of Explosive Runes on it.
That's a level of cheese that's allowed very rarely in practice though, because it makes a complete mockery of combat.
There's a key difference: you can get immunity to fire, acid and I'm fairly sure even to force damage. As soon as you become an undead or an evil, good, lawful or chaotic outsider you instantly become vulnerable to barrels of holy/unholy/anarchic/axiomatic water and there's nothing you can do about it (other than preventing the aforementioned barrel to be thrown at you).

[OldTrees1]

What do a skinny cook, vegetarian butcher, and a living necromancer have in common?

They are all 2 words.

But seriously, people get suspicious of professionals choosing to avoid personal application of their craft.

[Necroticplague]

There's also the fact that there's a sidebar in RoD that mentions just who is eligible to take Human Heritage. Undead are not among them, no matter what corpse they're made from.
The only way to use it this way is to ignore the part of the feat that says "See the Variant: Half-Humans and Humanlike Races sidebar, page 150, for more about races eligible to select this feat".

It's not that a Necropolitan takes the feat Human Heritage. That's impossible, because Necropolitan requires you to be at least level 2, and Human Heritage is level 1 only. It's that a human (or any other qualifying race) takes Human heritage, then becomes necropolitan. They already have the feat, and they keep the benefit (which is making you Humanoid, but keeping the traits of your previous type).

[Curmudgeon]

It's that a human (or any other qualifying race) takes Human heritage, then becomes necropolitan. They already have the feat, and they keep the benefit (which is making you Humanoid, but keeping the traits of your previous type).
Humans don't qualify for Human Heritage; they are neither a half-human race nor a human-descended race. But that's beside my point, which rests on the bolded word above: it's not accurate.

In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision).
The feat's benefit has nothing to do with the previous type (Undead due to Necropolitan), but only with the original type, when the character took Humanoid Heritage; that's when the benefit is established.

[atemu1234]

Sadly, you are no more able to taste coffee

Get a living familiar, you can have some form of empathy with it.

Or, if you're so inclined, get a pet Vaath and feed it coffee.

[Psyren]

I use it as a racism detector. Just because I'm a skeleton, we aren't cool anymore? Damn bone bigots.

Technically we're all skeletons :smallbiggrin: (Well, the humanoids anyway)

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's a key difference: you can get immunity to fire, acid and I'm fairly sure even to force damage. As soon as you become an undead or an evil, good, lawful or chaotic outsider you instantly become vulnerable to barrels of holy/unholy/anarchic/axiomatic water and there's nothing you can do about it (other than preventing the aforementioned barrel to be thrown at you).
That assumes you DM follows your interpretation of alchemical substance damage increasing linearly with quantity. Holy water barrels aren't a statted thrown weapon after all, and once you're covered in water you don't really get any wetter. So it's hardly unreasonable to cap the damage something like that can do, especially when you consider that even full submersion has a cap (for acid at least, i don't think holy water submersion is mentioned anywhere).

Even the "drop a sack full of flasks" trick doesn't necessarly work. By RAW, to use an alchemical item you have to throw it, making an attack roll. When it hits it does the listed damage. Even targeting a square requires an attack roll, something that Unseen Servants are not capable of. Sure, dropping it all makes sense, but by RAW it won't break the flasks.

So the interpretation that it'll go all over the place instead of just on your target, limiting the damage instead of stacking it linearly with the amount of flasks you use is just as valid as "lolol i drop 100 flasks of acid on X doing 100d6 damage".
You don't get 20 attacks a round by dropping a bag full of daggers after all, so why should splash weapons be different? The rules are an abstraction anyway, and logic and real-world physics take a backseat to playability.


It's not that a Necropolitan takes the feat Human Heritage. That's impossible, because Necropolitan requires you to be at least level 2, and Human Heritage is level 1 only. It's that a human (or any other qualifying race) takes Human heritage, then becomes necropolitan. They already have the feat, and they keep the benefit (which is making you Humanoid, but keeping the traits of your previous type).

Except that Necropolitan isn't a human-descended or half-human race. Even if you want to argue that one and claim that undead created from humans are somehow human-descended (something which i recall someone doing in a discussion on the topic a while back), the feat clearly references the sidebar in the same book that defines exactly what races qualify.

Necropolitans (or any undead) do not. And if you don't fulfill the prerequisites of the feat you lose the benefits.
The only way to regain them is getting destroyed and resurrected, and then you're not a Necropolitan any more.

[Zanos]

Technically we're all skeletons :smallbiggrin: (Well, the humanoids anyway)
https://i.imgur.com/xhaBSdY.gif

Humans don't qualify for Human Heritage; they are neither a half-human race nor a human-descended race. But that's beside my point, which rests on the bolded word above: it's not accurate.
>humans don't descend from humans
http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Gt+mfw+apparently+only+mac+owners+would+be+horrifi ed+by+their+_c2ed92db0a73f1fbe2d7ab6ca91ca638.jpg

[Chronos]

Yeah, taking Human Heritage on any race that qualifies for it (whatever those races are) and then going necropolitan is a waste of time, because you don't gain any benefit at all from the necropolitan transformation: After the ritual, you'd still be humanoid (human) with all the traits thereof, with neither undead type nor undead traits.

[Dusk Raven]

That assumes you DM follows your interpretation of alchemical substance damage increasing linearly with quantity. Holy water barrels aren't a statted thrown weapon after all, and once you're covered in water you don't really get any wetter. So it's hardly unreasonable to cap the damage something like that can do, especially when you consider that even full submersion has a cap (for acid at least, i don't think holy water submersion is mentioned anywhere).

I was wondering that sort of thing. The only acid, holy water, etc that actually damages you is whatever touches your skin. If there's more of it, it can circulate, but you have a fixed amount of exposure at any given time, so I imagine you get diminishing returns with more liquid. I wonder if it works similarly for explosions?

As for Human Heritage... that is a poorly worded feat. While you can be turned into a Necropolitan if you have the feat (Necropolitan is a template, not a pure race), it... I really don't know what the designers were thinking. Not just turning undead, what are you supposed to do if you get polymorphed?

[Chronos]

Some form-changing effects change your type, and some don't, and it makes very little difference. For instance, a druid wildshaped into a bear still has the humanoid type. Presumably, if you have a feat like Human Heritage setting your type, and you're polymorphed in a way that you keep your feats, then you retain your humanoid type, too.

[Dusk Raven]

Hmm. Oh yeah, it does say that you keep all traits common to your original type, so a Human Heritage Necropolitan would still have all the usual undead traits.

[Jeff the Green]

Sadly, you are no more able to taste coffee

Actually, you keep your tongue, so you can still taste, as per The Book of Bad Latin.

[Chronos]

Hmm. Oh yeah, it does say that you keep all traits common to your original type, so a Human Heritage Necropolitan would still have all the usual undead traits.
No, you'd keep all of the usual humanoid traits. Your original type is humanoid, not undead.

[Dusk Raven]

Actually, you keep your tongue, so you can still taste, as per The Book of Bad Latin.

Book of Bad Latin? How's it Bad Latin?


No, you'd keep all of the usual humanoid traits. Your original type is humanoid, not undead.

Not if you're a Necropolitan. First you are undead, then changed to human via the feat. Thus:


you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision).

[Chronos]

A necropolitan is never first an undead. You start off humanoid, and you're a humanoid when you take Human Heritage.

And "Libris Mortis" is literally "Of the book of the dead".

[Dusk Raven]

A necropolitan is never first an undead. You start off humanoid, and you're a humanoid when you take Human Heritage.

And "Libris Mortis" is literally "Of the book of the dead".

There aren't really a whole lot of "undead" that start off as undead, but they very much are undead once the become so. They're the next-highest priority after HH, so they'd gain the benefits of undead. Or at least, that's how I'd rule it. Human Heritage looks really stupidly worded, as well as anthropocentric. I mean, being considered human for purposes of effects and never your original type? I could understand if it counts as both human and the original, like how half-elves count as both elf and human, but completely negating the base type? Evidently humanity is so infectious that if weren't humanoid, you are now!

And yeah, having looked it up, I see that the nominative singular for "book" in Latin is "Liber" not "Libris." There are Latin words that end in -is, but that's not one of them. Wow. Wonder how much flak they've taken for that...

[Curmudgeon]

A necropolitan is never first an undead. You start off humanoid, and you're a humanoid when you take Human Heritage.
You could start off as a Planetouched, which would be a Human-descended Outsider, so Human Heritage would let you retain your Outsider traits after Necropolitan. But you still retain your original type traits, not the traits of your previous type (Undead).

[Jeff the Green]

A necropolitan is never first an undead. You start off humanoid, and you're a humanoid when you take Human Heritage.

And "Libris Mortis" is literally "Of the book of the dead".

"Of the book of death", actually. "Of the book of the dead" would be Libris Mortuorum.

[Malimar]

"Of the book of death", actually. "Of the book of the dead" would be Libris Mortuorum.

If you read the sidebar on the first page, it reveals they meant it to be (Celestial for) "From the Books of Dead". Even assuming Celestial = Latin, "Libris Mortis" is a perfectly adequate translation (I wouldn't have omitted the preposition "ex", but it's not strictly necessary: the ablative "Libris" does that work on its own.).