Shadow Warrior {3.5} Homebrew vs. Hellfire Knight {3.5} Homebrew?

[Ninebalthazaar]

I would really like some help on choosing between the two, I'm convinced that using a Human would be the best, and simplest race for either of these classes. If you have any other LA+0 Races that would work well please suggest them.

My Party will be starting off at Lvl 1 or Lvl 2. I would like to know your opinion on each of these classes. Which do you think is the stronger class ? Also, if you have any other classes that are similar to these and think they will work better, feel free to speak your mind.

Now, that's really all I need at the moment, but Thanks in advance.:smallsmile:

Edit: By stronger, I do mean that my toon will be the main melee, if not the only one in my small party of 3-4 players. I'd really just like to max the damage potential that my group can have, it'll be a tough time for us, because we're so small in number. Our DM is relatively new and has no restriction whatsoever in the class/race choice as long as they are not EVIL, so neutral, and good please!

[Xerlith]

Hint: We have no idea what you're talking about, because you did not provide any links to the actual classes in question.

[Starkeeper]

Didn't recognize these homebrews, asked Google and my suspicions proved true: Terrible dandwiki homebrew, urgh.

Shadow Warrior's Dark Whirlwind(an improved, Improved Whirlwind Attack for free at level 3? Really?) would technically be usable as an AoE trip attack, so go with that if you want some control, you could even argue that a slashing weapon with reach could double its range for 20 feet. Hellfire Knight is more of a bruiser, just go with a pouncer or something and have fun with invisible charges. With these two choices, I'd probably lean towards the former if you want raw power since it's horrible: Three good saves, that ridiculous Dark Whirlwind ability, the stupidly thought-out Shadow Leap(no save for getting flung into the air or stunned, doesn't even have a weight limitation), Shadow Teleport(static DC 15 Move Silenty+Dex check for a Hide-equivalent? What?). Oddly enough, the higher-leveled abilities are crap, unlike most homebrews that throw in world-destroying abilities.

Personally, I'd just dip three levels in Shadow Warrior for Dark Whirlwind then move on, though stacking some Sneak Attack with that Shadow Teleport ability could be interesting too.

Hellfire Knight (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hellfire_Knight_(3.5e_Class)) and Shadow Warrior (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shadow_Warrior_(3.5e_Class)).

[Ninebalthazaar]

Hint: We have no idea what you're talking about, because you did not provide any links to the actual classes in question.

Can't use links yet, my apologies

[Ninebalthazaar]

Didn't recognize these homebrews, asked Google and my suspicions proved true: Terrible dandwiki homebrew, urgh.

Shadow Warrior's Dark Whirlwind(an improved, Improved Whirlwind Attack for free at level 3? Really?) would technically be usable as an AoE trip attack, so go with that if you want some control, you could even argue that a slashing weapon with reach could double its range for 20 feet. Hellfire Knight is more of a bruiser, just go with a pouncer or something and have fun with invisible charges. With these two choices, I'd probably lean towards the former if you want raw power since it's horrible: Three good saves, that ridiculous Dark Whirlwind ability, the stupidly thought-out Shadow Leap(no save for getting flung into the air or stunned, doesn't even have a weight limitation), Shadow Teleport(static DC 15 Move Silenty+Dex check for a Hide-equivalent? What?). Oddly enough, the higher-leveled abilities are crap, unlike most homebrews that throw in world-destroying abilities.

Personally, I'd just dip three levels in Shadow Warrior for Dark Whirlwind then move on, though stacking some Sneak Attack with that Shadow Teleport ability could be interesting too.

Hellfire Knight (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hellfire_Knight_(3.5e_Class)) and Shadow Warrior (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shadow_Warrior_(3.5e_Class)).

Yeah yeah I know, do you know any other classes homebrew or not, that you think are similar?

[Xerlith]

Hellfire Knight - Paladin of Tyranny or Hexblade. Ur-Priest. Warlock. Literally each of these has the same schtick and most of them do it better.

The second one is easily replicated by any Shadow Hand-focused Swordsage or the Telflammar Shadowlord or Crinthi Marauder PrCs.

[Ninebalthazaar]

Hellfire Knight - Paladin of Tyranny or Hexblade. Ur-Priest. Warlock. Literally each of these has the same schtick and most of them do it better.

The second one is easily replicated by any Shadow Hand-focused Swordsage or the Telflammar Shadowlord or Crinthi Marauder PrCs.

mmm What about some base classes that you'd recommend for a melee-focused character? I really want to build pure, but in your opinion, which class is gonna be viable in the longrun if ran pure?:smallfrown:

Edit: our other melee will be a swordsage

[Starkeeper]

Well the ToB classes are all solid, Warblade focuses more on damage so you could look into that, a pure Barbarian with Spirit Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy and maybe the Streetfighter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) ACF is a brutal damage-dealer, tone things according to what your DM will accept. Duskblade is also a pretty decent choice, good melee capabilities with some casting on top.

[MisterKaws]

No sane DM would allow those two classes, they just have way too many class features, and shadow warrior still gets bonus feats...

So yeah, you can do both things just fine as a swordsage, except that no damage is hellfire-type, but that's an imbalanced type of damage to give a bonus with those huge amount of dices. If you still insist on going hellfire, you'll have to do Hellfire Glaivelock optimization, otherwise, it's impossible.

[Xerlith]

No multi/prestige classing? That's literally the point of 3.5, you know.

Overall, I'd say still Swordsage. Two swordsages can be entirely different from each other to the point you'd never say they're the same class. Melee monk/martial artist? Ninja? Judoka? Samurai? Fire-breathing dragon descendant? These are all equally easy to replicate with Swordsage. If you don't want that overlap anyway, you can go for Warblade or Crusader. They're respectively Striker and Defender archetypes (Easy to subvert if built correctly, though), both dabbling in minor buffs (White Raven discipline), quite powerful on their own right.