Anti-Magic and Proof Against X

[LoyalPaladin]

Hello Playground!

I've got a couple of questions I was hoping I could get answered.

Can someone explain to me how the proof against X works?

I'm also very curious of any ways to get around / dispel and anti-magic field.

These questions go hand-in-hand, since I'm wondering if Proof Against Abjuration would get me through an AMF with no repercussions.

[Flickerdart]

The search for "proof against abjuration" brings up this thread as the only instance of the phrase anywhere on the Internet. That's actually quite remarkable.

[LoyalPaladin]

The search for "proof against abjuration" brings up this thread as the only instance of the phrase anywhere on the Internet. That's actually quite remarkable.
Which is sort of why I was asking. I vaguely remember being told by a fellow playgrounder to get "Proof Against Transmutation" put on my armor to fight against Dispater.

I found a a reference to "Proof Against Poison". But I'm fairly lost here.

[Flickerdart]

Proof against Transmutation is a +5 armor property from Magic of Faerun and Complete Arcane that makes the wearer immune to shapechanging Transmutation spells and disintegration. No equivalents for other schools exist. It's an overpriced and pointless enchantment.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Proof against Transmutation is a +5 armor enhancement from Complete Arcane. It doesn't make you immune to transmutation. It just makes you immune against things that change your shape against your will like Disintegrate, Baleful Polymorph or Flesh to Stone.
There is no equivalent for the other schools of magic.

You can't dispel Antimagic Field. Mordenkainen's Disjunction has a small chance to remove it (1% per CL).
The only options to get around AMF are the Initiate of Mystra feat (PGtF), which lets you cast in an AMF if you make a CL check, and the Invoke Magic spell (LoM), which lets you cast a single spell up to 4th level in an AMF in exchange for a 9th level spell and an expensive material component.
Otiluke's Suppressing Field (CM) keyed to abjuration can also work, but it's not guaranteed because it forces a CL check instead of just working outright.

Your best bet against AMF is to not be in it. It's a 10ft radius centered on the caster, so that shouldn't be too hard unless they're using Selective metamagic to be immune to their own AMF.
If all else fails get the Martial Study feat (ToB) with one of the Shadow Hand teleport maneuvers. They're extraordinary, so they work in AMF and let you escape.

[Flickerdart]

Your best bet against AMF is to not be in it. It's a 10ft radius centered on the caster, so that shouldn't be too hard unless they're using Selective metamagic to be immune to their own AMF.
Notably, if they are immune to their own AMF, you can use instantaneous conjuration spells (which are not magic after the spell has been cast) to attack them, such as everyone's favourite Orb spells. That throw non-magical orbs of fire, acid, electricity, sound, and force. Don't think about it too hard.

If you must fight in an AMF, bring along a baatorian greensteel sword, which has a non-magical enhancement bonus to damage. If you're playing in a super cheesy game, consider making your items into intelligent items, which are constructs and thus don't care about AMF.

[Inevitability]

Proof against Transmutation is a +5 armor property from Magic of Faerun and Complete Arcane that makes the wearer immune to shapechanging Transmutation spells and disintegration. No equivalents for other schools exist. It's an overpriced and pointless enchantment.

Niche use: put it on your armor when you're going to fight a Pyroclastic Dragon?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Niche use: put it on your armor when you're going to fight a Pyroclastic Dragon?

A +5 property is a bit on the expensive side for a niche use. You could just use that gold to pump up your saving throws and get a reroll or two, which is a lot more useful.

[Âmesang]

Unlikely to pass, but perhaps one could try and track down a 30th-level epic spellcaster and receive the benefit of some sort of permanent "anti-antimagic field" via an epic spell using the ward seed? Antimagic field comes in spell form making it a valid target for the ward seed and epic spells aren't automatically suppressed in one (the field gets to make a 20th-level dispel check which it'll fail against the epic spell's dispel DC 41), so it could theoretically work… maybe…

Of course one could rule that one can only cast spells through the field so long as the ward is also an area of effect, though at least a targeted ward should keep one's personal spells active. Or something like that.

[Inevitability]

A +5 property is a bit on the expensive side for a niche use. You could just use that gold to pump up your saving throws and get a reroll or two, which is a lot more useful.

I suppose so. Still, it's the first thing I've ever seen that's able to completely block the disintegration breath.

[Rubik]

I suppose so. Still, it's the first thing I've ever seen that's able to completely block the disintegration breath.Living wood tinfoil hat with a familiar with a readied command to unshrink it.

Disintengrate affects nonliving objects and creatures (living, dead, or undead). It has no affect on living objects.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Living wood tinfoil hat with a familiar with a readied command to unshrink it.

Disintengrate affects nonliving objects and creatures (living, dead, or undead). It has no affect on living objects.

Leaving the horrible cheese factor aside, the disintegration breath of a pyroclastic dragon doesn't have that clause.
The tinfoil hat isn't a magical item, so it doesn't even get a saving throw. It just crumbles to ash, and you're still in the area of the breath and affected normally.

And against a normal Disintegrate spell you can just use Friendly Fire or Ray Deflection instead of trying to get your DM to throw a book at your face.

[Rubik]

Leaving the horrible cheese factor aside, the disintegration breath of a pyroclastic dragon doesn't have that clause.
The tinfoil hat isn't a magical item, so it doesn't even get a saving throw. It just crumbles to ash, and you're still in the area of the breath and affected normally.

And against a normal Disintegrate spell you can just use Friendly Fire or Ray Deflection instead of trying to get your DM to throw a book at your face.The pyroclastic dragon's disintegrating breath is not defined as a spread with Fireball's ability to keep going after it hits something and burns through it, which means it's a burst. And that means that, even if it does disintegrate the hat, the person inside will still be fine, as the line of effect has been blocked, and the breath weapon cannot go through it.

So disregard the living wood and just use a tinfoil hat. It works just as well, though you do lose the hat.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The pyroclastic dragon's disintegrating breath is not defined as a spread with Fireball's ability to keep going after it hits something and burns through it, which means it's a burst. And that means that, even if it does disintegrate the hat, the person inside will still be fine, as the line of effect has been blocked, and the breath weapon cannot go through it.

So disregard the living wood and just use a tinfoil hat. It works just as well, though you do lose the hat.

It's a line. The burst/spread/emanation distinction only applies to areas that aren't lines.

[Rubik]

It's a line. The burst/spread/emanation distinction only applies to areas that aren't lines.Except you can have a burst, spread, or emanation in a line -- for instance, a mastery of shaping Fireball, or a Sculpt Spell'd AMF. The breath weapon is, effectively, a burst, as is anything that isn't called out as being otherwise, as they follow the same basic rules as one.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Except you can have a burst, spread, or emanation in a line -- for instance, a mastery of shaping Fireball, or a Sculpt Spell'd AMF. The breath weapon is, effectively, a burst, as is anything that isn't called out as being otherwise, as they follow the same basic rules as one.

The only difference between a burst and a spread is that a spread can go around corners to fill squares that are blocked from the point of origin. Something that obviously isn't relevant for a line spell, which is why the classification doesn't apply and no spell that is natively a line makes a mention of it.
The ability to break through barriers has nothing to do with a spell being a burst or spread. It's a quality of an area spell that damages objects - if the spell destroys a barrier it continues to the edge of its range.

Since the description of the breath weapon is rather lacking in that regard and Disintegrate isn't a line spell itself you have to infer what happens from other line spells.
Like Lightning Bolt or Resonating Bolt, which explicitly continue after breaking through a barrier.

And it's not like the tinfoil hat is legitimate by RAW. Chances are that the act of unshrinking one will just have it tip over and fall on its side instead of covering you perfectly, so it working like you want it to is purely wishful thinking.

[Chronos]

A tenth-level Master of Many Forms is immune to all unwilling transmutation effects. Though I'm not sure if basing a breath weapon on Disintegrate makes it itself a transmutation effect.

[Flickerdart]

And it's not like the tinfoil hat is legitimate by RAW. Chances are that the act of unshrinking one will just have it tip over and fall on its side instead of covering you perfectly, so it working like you want it to is purely wishful thinking.

Not true. All you need to do is add extra weight to the bottom edges, and the cone would need to be at a rather extreme angle in order to fall on its side.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Not true. All you need to do is add extra weight to the bottom edges, and the cone would need to be at a rather extreme angle in order to fall on its side.

Assuming you stand still, which is hardly a given in combat. It's going to be a high, narrow cone because you need it to fit on your head when shrunk and be tall enough to cover you when unshrunk.
That's not exactly a good shape to remain securely attached if you have any kind of rough movement, and putting weights on it will just make it fall off easier if you're not upright and make a fast movement with your head.
Not to mention that wasting all your familiars actions on waiting to shout the command word to unshrink is incredibly wasteful.

It's beside the point anyway. The point i was making is that the tinfoil hat trick is not something that's defined by the rules, so it depends on your DM saying that it works how you want it to work.
There's no basis for you to argue on way or another in the rules.

[Flickerdart]

Assuming you stand still, which is hardly a given in combat.
Still? No. Upright? Definitely.



It's going to be a high, narrow cone because you need it to fit on your head when shrunk and be tall enough to cover you when unshrunk.

Also no. Your space is a 5ft square. Especially as a small race, that's a really wide base, but even a normal sized human can crouch.



That's not exactly a good shape to remain securely attached if you have any kind of rough movement, and putting weights on it will just make it fall off easier if you're not upright and make a fast movement with your head.
Have you ever met a wizard's hat?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Also no. Your space is a 5ft square. Especially as a small race, that's a really wide base, but even a normal sized human can crouch.


Have you ever met a wizard's hat?
My point is that it needs to fit your head when shrunk. If it's too wide it will just cover your eyes and fall off even easier. If it's too narrow it will also fall off, no matter how much weight you pin on it.
This is even more of a problem for small creatures, since presumably their heads are smaller.
At the same time it needs to be high enough when unshrunk to cover you.
It also means that being hit by a dispel now means your weak Str 8 or even 6 wizard is now trapped under a big cone of solid wood, which isn't exactly light.

And i don't think anybody ever wore the stereotypical "wizard's hat" outside of movies, but i may be wrong on that one. They certainly didn't engage in combat while wearing one.


It's also still missing my point. This is not RAW. It doesn't matter one bit how many arguments you have or how good they are, in the end it's a houserule.

[Flickerdart]

Ok, how about this.

These hats were used in combat and didn't fall off. (https://www.google.com/search?q=grenadier+cap&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGyvD-nbvJAhWHGz4KHRWTC_4QsAQIKA&biw=1094&bih=825) Happy?

[Inevitability]

A tenth-level Master of Many Forms is immune to all unwilling transmutation effects. Though I'm not sure if basing a breath weapon on Disintegrate makes it itself a transmutation effect.

It doesn't. There are several other ways of being disintegrated, some of which are from schools other than Transmutation (Sphere of Ultimate Destruction, Righteous Aura).

[elonin]

I don't have much experience with AMF. Does it make sense that if you aren't in the sphere you can aim a spell through the AMF and still have it trigger? I have no trouble with an instantaneous effect affecting someone within a AMF.