Looking for a certain creature with a nonability score

[Legendxp]

I could have sworn that there was SOME kind of entry in one of the monster manuals where there was an enemy with either Wis or Cha as a nonability. I would have staked money on it. Does anybody know what I'm talking about or am I just going insane?

Here's some examples of creatures with nonabilities:

Ghost: Str -
Plant: Dex -
Undead: Con -
Ooze: Int -
Unknown: Wis -
Unknown: Cha -

[Flickerdart]

Anything without Wisdom or Charisma is not a creature, but an object. Rather explicitly, too:


Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score.

Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. Anything with no Charisma score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Charisma score also has no Wisdom score.

[Necroticplague]

Anything without cha or wis is, by definition, not a creature.

[Florian]

So, animated object?

[Flickerdart]

Animated objects have a Wis and Cha of 1.

[Legendxp]

I don't know do animated objects have wisdom or not?


EDIT: NVM ninja'd

Also, yes guys I realize that normally things that don't have wisdom or charisma are objects. (Normally things without strength can't move, that doesn't stop ghosts now does it?) I'm just wondering if anyone knows of anything other than the objects.

[nedz]

Lots of oozes come close

Str 17, Dex 1, Con 22, Int Ø, Wis 1, Cha 1

[torrasque666]

I actually asked this before: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361721-Negating-Ability-Scores

basically, Dream Creature negates Wis, but technically should turn it into an object. Nothing negates Cha.

[Necroticplague]

Also, yes guys I realize that normally things that don't have wisdom or charisma are objects. (Normally things without strength can't move, that doesn't stop ghosts now does it?) I'm just wondering if anyone knows of anything other than the objects.

That's called "the difference between ability of zero and a nonability". Wisdom zero means youve lost your ability to perceive things, and are stuck in a nightmarish coma. Wisdom as a nonability means you're a completely insensate object.

Side note, ghosts do have stregnth scores on the ethereal. Heck, on the ethereal, ghosts are as solid as everything else.

[Legendxp]

I actually asked this before: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361721-Negating-Ability-Scores

basically, Dream Creature negates Wis, but technically should turn it into an object. Nothing negates Cha.

Thanks for the link, I was looking for something like this. Although, I'm still disappointed there aren't any actual monsters without a Wis or Cha score.

[Crake]

Normally things without strength can't move

This is not technically correct. Things without a strength score cannot exert force. Every incorporeal creature thus has no strength score for this exact reason. Things without dexterity cannot move.

[AMFV]

Thanks for the link, I was looking for something like this. Although, I'm still disappointed there aren't any actual monsters without a Wis or Cha score.

I would argue that there are plenty of traps with enough personality that they count as actual monsters.

[ShurikVch]

Tauric Creature gets physical stats of Basic Creature, so, if you can make Formian Queen into Undead or Construct, then add Shadow template (to switch type to Magical Beast), you can make Tauric <something> without any physical scores

[torrasque666]

Tauric Creature gets physical stats of Basic Creature, so, if you can make Formian Queen into Undead or Construct, then add Shadow template (to switch type to Magical Beast), you can make Tauric <something> without any physical scores
Not possible. few templates turn outsiders into either of those, and the type switch to magical beast is only if the type is animal or vermin in the first place.

[ShurikVch]

Not possible. few templates turn outsiders into either of those, and the type switch to magical beast is only if the type is animal or vermin in the first place.Not Lords of Madness Shadow Creature; Manual of the Planes Shadow Creature - it's different templates, and MotP variant turn any corporeal creature into Magical Beast (example creature is Wight)

[torrasque666]

Not Lords of Madness Shadow Creature; Manual of the Planes Shadow Creature - it's different templates, and MotP variant turn any corporeal creature into Magical Beast (example creature is Wight)
Manual of the Planes is 3.0 material, published in 2001. The 3.5 conversion was in 2003, with Lords of Madness being published in 2005. Thus, its overwritten by the Lords of Madness Shadow Creature.

[ShurikVch]

Manual of the Planes is 3.0 material, published in 2001. The 3.5 conversion was in 2003, with Lords of Madness being published in 2005. Thus, its overwritten by the Lords of Madness Shadow Creature.Epic Level Handbook is 3.0 material, published in 2002. The 3.5 conversion was in 2003, with Complete Arcane being published in 2004.
Clearly we should update Pseudonatural Troll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm#pseudonaturalTroll) according to Complete Arcane!
Just because LoM Shadow Creature was printed later and have the same name as MotP Shadow Creature, it doesn't mean it should replace it.
Does LoM say directly it should replace MotP Shadow Creature?
No? My point! :smalltongue:

[torrasque666]

Epic Level Handbook is 3.0 material, published in 2002. The 3.5 conversion was in 2003, with Complete Arcane being published in 2004.
Clearly we should update Pseudonatural Troll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm#pseudonaturalTroll) according to Complete Arcane!
Just because LoM Shadow Creature was printed later and have the same name as MotP Shadow Creature, it doesn't mean it should replace it.
Does LoM say directly it should replace MotP Shadow Creature?
No? My point! :smalltongue:
Actually, yeah. We should update the Pseudonatural Troll. The 3.5 FAQ addresses this.
Unless stated otherwise, any time that a rule appears in two different sourcebooks (other than the PH, DMG, and MM), the most current sourcebook is considered correct and all previous sources are superseded. A book’s credits page lists its publication date (typically near the bottom of the page).

[ShurikVch]

Actually, yeah. We should update the Pseudonatural Troll. The 3.5 FAQ addresses this.1) FAQ is not a RAW
2) I read a very different thing (can't directly quote it right now): just because Y was published after the X, and have same name as X, it doesn't mean Y should replace X; you can use any of them, just not both at once. (Naturally, it's except Errata and cases where book directly says it's update of something older)

[torrasque666]

1) FAQ is not a RAW This isn't exactly a rules question, but a publication question. I.E. What published material is to be used? The FAQ has more than enough authority to rule on that.