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View Full Version : Thar be elder gods ahead. (Call of Cthulu)



SniperGuy
2007-06-07, 09:21 AM
So I kinda want to start up a CoC game with some friends, but checking around online, it appears there's 90 different versions of the sourcebook out now. Can anyone point me towards what I'd need? I got the "quick start guide" off of Chaosium's website, but it appears the newest version. 6.0 uses the D20 system, whereas the quickstart thingy uses the older version (Which still seems nifty, what with the percentage rolling and all). Given that my local game store has both, which is more recommended?
The game I'm gonna DM is going to be mainly online, so I'm planning on having my friends be on ventrilo to do OOC stuff, and have me narrate, while bits of dialoge may go in an MIRC chat channel or some such. Is there some sort of program that would facilitate dice rolling, especially one that would keep them honest? Some sort of in-chat dice roller would be nice. Any tips/suggestions for this would be great!

And feel free to talk about the elder gods that will devour us all here as well, if you'd like.

JellyPooga
2007-06-07, 09:37 AM
DON'T USE THE D20 VERSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't stress that enough. d20 and CoC DO NOT MIX.

Hell, by 20th level, you're supposed to be able to fight and kill Cthulhu...any system that lets you do that needs serious reworking.

Stick with the original % system, it's much better for the type of game CoC is (i.e. RP-Heavy, Horror where PC's are supposed to lose approx 80% of all combat)

LongVin
2007-06-07, 10:02 AM
I am going to have to agree with Jelly, CoC and D20 just don't mix. D20 is designed to fight and kill monsters. CoC is about running away from them and hoping you don't botch a roll and go permanantly insane.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-06-07, 11:10 AM
Ditto on the other 2 responses (though for the record, a 20th level CoC character is WAY underpowered compared to any other 20th level d20 class).

I think d20 quantifies too many of its rules to allow good immersion into CoC. The original Chaosium ruleset allows alot more GM control of the situations.

jamroar
2007-06-07, 12:12 PM
So I kinda want to start up a CoC game with some friends, but checking around online, it appears there's 90 different versions of the sourcebook out now. Can anyone point me towards what I'd need? I got the "quick start guide" off of Chaosium's website, but it appears the newest version. 6.0 uses the D20 system, whereas the quickstart thingy uses the older version (Which still seems nifty, what with the percentage rolling and all). Given that my local game store has both, which is more recommended?
The game I'm gonna DM is going to be mainly online, so I'm planning on having my friends be on ventrilo to do OOC stuff, and have me narrate, while bits of dialoge may go in an MIRC chat channel or some such. Is there some sort of program that would facilitate dice rolling, especially one that would keep them honest? Some sort of in-chat dice roller would be nice. Any tips/suggestions for this would be great!

And feel free to talk about the elder gods that will devour us all here as well, if you'd like.

Is 6.0 a new Chaosium edition or is it referring to CoC d20? I've been meaning to check this game out also.

Rasumichin
2007-06-07, 02:13 PM
Wasn't there a new edition that came out after d20?
Iirc, it did not change much in the system, though.

Generally speaking, i would guess that the "normal" CoC-Edition is more immersion-heavy and focusses more on common people getting in contact with the mythos and most likely going insane or being killed in the process, whereas the d20 version allows the players a bit more controll over the game.

Normally, this would make me choose the d20 version, but i'm actually inclined towards buying the Chaosium version (resp. the german edition thereof by Pegasus), since i find the simple, streamlined rules set very appealing (even though i would apply some house rules decreasing the unnecessary high number of combat skills- nobody needs seperate skills for punching an kicking somebody).

Heck, if they would include the cathulhu rules, i would go and buy it tomorrow...

SniperGuy
2007-06-07, 02:31 PM
Alright, I'll definitely go for that version then, assuming I can find it. Thanks guys.

Golthur
2007-06-07, 05:22 PM
I'd have to concur with the majority opinion - NOT d20; it ruins the feel of CoC completely.

The latest incarnation of the game I have sitting on my shelf right now is "Sixth Edition", and it's the BRP version, not d20.

Belkarseviltwin
2007-06-08, 07:47 AM
Hell, by 20th level, you're supposed to be able to fight and kill Cthulhu...any system that lets you do that needs serious reworking.


To be fair, in the original story they kill Cthulhu. Admittedly, it's by ramming him with a steamship...

Unles you mean kill him so he can't come back, which should be impossible!

Fascisticide
2007-06-08, 08:58 AM
I'd also say not to buy d20, as it is more centered on mechanics and fights. And confronting mythos creatures are supposed to be moments of pure terror, so if these encounters are resolved by combat, you totally lose that element of terror.

But since this is to be played online, you can't really create a mood of terror for the players this way. So I guess d20 system would work just as well. And probably the players already know much of the system.

Or... you say it will be "mainly" online, so maybe you can make much of the investigation in online play, that should work well. But when players are about to encounter mythos creatures, make sure these parts of the game happen in tabletop play, the atmosphere of horror will be much much better that with a computer. And in this case, this is the book you want (http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=245), not the d20 version.

And don't try to scare the players with my avatar! :smalltongue:

SpikeFightwicky
2007-06-08, 10:15 AM
To be fair, in the original story they kill Cthulhu. Admittedly, it's by ramming him with a steamship...

Unles you mean kill him so he can't come back, which should be impossible!

They don't kill him, they force him to retreat back to R'lyeh (sp? if I knew how to spell it I'd be insane!) and re-form (after sustaining heavy steam-boat induced damage), but the island sunk back down, re-sealing him underwater.

Tweekinator
2007-06-08, 11:12 AM
I'm pretty sure that exploding his head with a steam ship killed Cthulu. It's just that he unkilled himself and the guy on the steamer got away.

Mr Croup
2007-06-08, 11:24 AM
I'm pretty sure that exploding his head with a steam ship killed Cthulu. It's just that he unkilled himself and the guy on the steamer got away.
I'm pretty sure that, that is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die. Just saying. :smallbiggrin:

I've played in several of the Chaosium editions of CoC, as well as the d20 version, and I enjoyed both. But I do have to say that the non-d20 version is the superior one, at least in my opinion. The d20 version game that I played in was great, but really beyond making a handful of Spot, Listen, Search, and Knowledge rolls, the actual mechanics of the game weren't present. For me, CoC is better served by a very light application of mechanics, with the focus on the narration, descriptions, and character actions that aren't mechanically based. But that's just my opinion on it.

Driderman
2007-06-08, 11:54 AM
Are you playing a campaign or one-shot stories? Cthulhu D20 is fine for one-shots, but levels and Call of Cthulhu don't really mix so the old Basic system is best for campaigns, even though the old combat system can be a bit annoying.

As MrCroup says, Call of Cthulhu isn't really about the technical aspects anyway...

....
2007-06-08, 02:27 PM
I'm pretty sure that exploding his head with a steam ship killed Cthulu. It's just that he unkilled himself and the guy on the steamer got away.

After the guy on the ship rammed Cthulhu he thought he was doing good, then he turned around and realized that Cthulhu was reforming himself and he hauled ass.

But the real question is, why do people always assume Cthulhu is the biggest, baddest mother around? Ever heard of Yog-Sothoth? Nyarlathotep? They eat Cthulhu for breakfast.

Fascisticide
2007-06-08, 03:11 PM
But the real question is, why do people always assume Cthulhu is the biggest, baddest mother around? Ever heard of Yog-Sothoth? Nyarlathotep? They eat Cthulhu for breakfast.
Cthulhu is the strongest who cares about worshippers on earth.

And he is cool!

Fascisticide
2007-06-08, 03:53 PM
And if you think you can fight against a Great Old One...

http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/WEBIMAGES/CARTOON/u86-75mm.jpg

McDeath
2007-06-08, 08:47 PM
Fezzik, are there gods ahead?

Belteshazzar
2007-06-08, 09:13 PM
I am surprise those guys got that many shots off. Of course when you drive around with a Howitzer attached to the back of you car "just in case Elder Things attack" your sanity is already a moot point.

Dervag
2007-06-09, 04:22 AM
They don't kill him, they force him to retreat back to R'lyeh (sp? if I knew how to spell it I'd be insane!) and re-form (after sustaining heavy steam-boat induced damage), but the island sunk back down, re-sealing him underwater.But... but... you do know how to spell it... you spelled it right! :smalleek: Run away!


I am surprise those guys got that many shots off. Of course when you drive around with a Howitzer attached to the back of you car "just in case Elder Things attack" your sanity is already a moot point.Well, a French '75 has a range of several miles; that's probably how they managed it.

AngelSword
2007-06-09, 07:34 AM
Are you playing a campaign or one-shot stories? Cthulhu D20 is fine for one-shots, but levels and Call of Cthulhu don't really mix so the old Basic system is best for campaigns, even though the old combat system can be a bit annoying.

As MrCroup says, Call of Cthulhu isn't really about the technical aspects anyway...
I'm going to agree with this point. Cthulhu d20 is fine for one shots, and as an introduction to players who only know d20 rules. I've played both, and the game is only as good as the keeper telling it. System really matters not.

In addition, the d20 version also acts as a sourcebook for D&D. Nothing like throwing a Byakhee or two at a crowd of jaded D&D players. (Actually, now that I think about it, it seems like this was the plan all along, as the stats for the Elder Gods and the Great Old Ones include domains. Odd…)

Though, this is the first I've heard about campaigns and Cthulhu. And they call me crazy.

::resumes his chanting:: Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftagn!

JellyPooga
2007-06-09, 07:56 AM
Though, this is the first I've heard about campaigns and Cthulhu. And they call me crazy.

CoC and Campaigns mix...you just change characters more often than in most games...

wibble blip, more toast please. (oops, time to roll up another me-thinks)

tarbrush
2007-06-09, 08:18 AM
If you get the chance, the Delta Green sourcebook for old style CoC is one of the best sourcebooks I've ever read.

I too prefer the old % system, mainly because of the amount of adventures that have little points in them along the lines of.

"If the investigators are in tunnel A, they get a chance to escape by doing XZY, roll for SAN. If they're in tunnel B, they all die. Roll new characters.'

OzymandiasVolt
2007-06-09, 09:51 AM
Kill Cthulhu at level 20? I seem to recall he went through quite a few level 20 characters before dying when WotC tested that.

Lobsopdoy
2007-06-09, 05:39 PM
Cthulhu is the strongest who cares about worshippers on earth.

And he is cool!

Nyarlathotep is actually much more powerful then Cthulhu AND he directly interacts with people. He just likes to screw around with us.

No other omniscient monstrosity can make evil look like so much fun.

Fascisticide
2007-06-09, 06:12 PM
This strip explains it all... or not... anyway, I had to share it in light of recent discussions!

http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/WEBIMAGES/CARTOON/u89-abrpa.jpg

Matthew
2007-06-10, 12:48 PM
Hmmn. I heard D20 Cthulu was alright, but I guess it's akin to (A)D&D and D&D 3.x... just a different feel...

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 01:24 PM
DON'T USE THE D20 VERSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't stress that enough. d20 and CoC DO NOT MIX.

What he said.
Don't use d20 Cthulhu!!
Levels? LEVELS??

Chaosium published a new edition of Call of Cthulhu fairly recently, and you don't really need ALL of those fancy new supplements to play, or just grab an older edition CoC core rulebook from the used RPGs books shelf, the various editions are not that different, really, and the main difference between Cthulhu by Gaslight (Victorian Age) 1920s Cthulhu, and Cthulhu Now/Modern are somewhat differing skill lists (adding computer use, for example)... and much better artwork and layout.

If I recall correctly, the Call of Cthulhu d20 conversion was made very early, way back when WotC had just published D&D 3.0, there was no d20 Modern yet, and no-one dared deviate from the d20 rules as written. Deadlands and Stormbringer RPG suffered the same fate. Horrible. THese days, people dare to publish variants of the base d20 system (d20 Spycraft, Monte Cook's Arcana) to adapt them to other genres, but unfortunately the d20 system is one of those systems that (subtly or less subtly) enforce a certain way of gaming, a sort of meta-rules... and d20 no matter how many ways poeple rearrange the bits is still geared towards adventure-gaming, dungeons (no matter what form they take), team-questing, spellcasting and leveling-up.

That is NOT what Call of Cthulhu should be about (neither should it be about characters going insane and dying faster than clones in a Paranoia game, but that is beside the point). Heck, the best CoC games I've participated in were run nearly dice-less and didn't even have monsters appearing, or just one or two.

Obviously, smaller mythos races like ghouls or Deep Ones can appear in greater numbers and appear fairly often in Lovecraft stories, too. Mi-go are just space aliens, really. But the more outlandish and sanity-rending creatures should not appear except at the culmination of a game, and it's usually more prudent to stop the cultists in the first place. You cannot kill the Great Old Ones. Period.

I think the old CoC core rules didn't even have stats for the Great Old Ones beyond some "does X SAN and X damage when it appears", because if you give something stats some powergamer will kill it. I mean what's the point of playing a game of "Cosmic Horror" genre if your players expect to be able to mow down monsters?

GURPS Cthulhupunk (Cthulhu in a Cyberpunk Spacefaring Future setting) sums it up nicely: Even if you manage to destroy or incapacitate Cthulhu temporarily, i.e. using a nuke or whatever, he just reforms later... HE ALWAYS COMES BACK. And next time, he's adapted himself to whatever attack you used.

CoC games are NOT suppose to go like this "THe cultist summons a Shoggoth. You kill the Shoggoth and kill the cultist after counterspelling his curse. You search for traps on the blasphemous altar. Another monster appears when you open the pit trap. You kill the monster... You read the tome of summoning and gain a level and +15% Mythos Lore." :smallannoyed:

I firmly believe that it is possible to play a good Horror game online, but perhaps not via chat (hte spelling errors and out-of-character chatter kill the imemrsion); I'd recommend play-by-mail. I've played in great PBM games (Mage: Sorcerers Crusade, and Changeling). The obvious advantage is that the GM can take all the time he wants to describe a scene, and for me immersion is far deeper when I'm not jarred by the real-world's little distractions, i.e. if the GM is trying to simulate an NPC talking to you, but all you see/hear is the GM doing funny voices while some other played sitting next to him is surrepticiously peering at his wristwatch hoping for a cigarette break. :smallwink:

The most important thing for a CoC game is, the players have to be in the mood, and the must feel they can trust the gamemaster not to use his control of the game against them. Characters should fight against insanity and horror, not against GM powertrips. Oh yes, and as with every horror game players should be allowed to laugh or joke (appropriate wry jokes) because it acts as a tension valve. The character may be screaming and running, but it doesn't mean the players have to.

Delta Green is like CoC Modern crossed with X-Files, but far more deadly and more combat-oriented than normal CoC.

AngelSword
2007-06-10, 04:06 PM
CoC games are NOT suppose to go like this "THe cultist summons a Shoggoth. You kill the Shoggoth and kill the cultist after counterspelling his curse. You search for traps on the blasphemous altar. Another monster appears when you open the pit trap. You kill the monster... You read the tome of summoning and gain a level and +15% Mythos Lore." :smallannoyed:

Well, yes, that is the root of the problem. But don't blame the sins of the keeper on the system. The big problem with using the d20 system for Cthulhu (or anything else, for that matter) is that people go into it, knowing it's d20, and expect the same gameplay for which D&D is known.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-06-11, 07:17 AM
But... but... you do know how to spell it... you spelled it right! :smalleek: Run away!

Well, a French '75 has a range of several miles; that's probably how they managed it.

*Note to self... Dervag knows too much...*

Heh, law of averages... I'd eventually spell it right.

Anyone ever play CoC: Dark Corners of the Earth (PC or X-Box)? That game does a good job capturing CoC 'run from anything and hope for the best' feel. If it's bigger than a deep one, then it's probably going to either eat you or get you sent on a one way ticket to Arkham Asylum.

I'm slowly creating an adventure that's similar to it (Shadow out of Time/Shadow over Innsmouth mix).

Fascisticide
2007-06-11, 08:26 AM
Anyone ever play CoC: Dark Corners of the Earth (PC or X-Box)? That game does a good job capturing CoC 'run from anything and hope for the best' feel. If it's bigger than a deep one, then it's probably going to either eat you or get you sent on a one way ticket to Arkham Asylum.
I am playing it, I'm near the end now at devil's reef.
The atmosphere of fear is really well done! Being chased by horrible townsfolk in Innsmouth, then taking refuge in the house where the little girl says her mother had to be locked upstairs... I was afraid of every door I had to open, dreading what would be behind it.
But I hate the combats, I'm just too bad and I die every time.

Lobsopdoy
2007-06-11, 02:47 PM
Delta Green is made of win