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Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 05:31 PM
Hello! I'm trying to pull together a Warmage, and I don't know what Feats to select for him. He starts at level 3, and he's human, so that's what... 3 feats to select? Oh, and I have also heard of a variant class feature that replaces the Advanced Learning class feature, but I don't know what book it is in. Does anyone know what it is?

Thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

Dhavaer
2007-06-07, 05:41 PM
The variant is in the PHB2.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 05:44 PM
:smallconfused: Odd, I looked through it just now and I couldn't find anything on it. Oh, it may be bacause my PHB2 is missing a few pages. It skips half a chapter, so it could have been in that missing section. But just in case, I'll go and look through it again. Thanks for letting me know!:smallsmile:

Stevenson
2007-06-07, 05:54 PM
You may want to take Obtain Familiar from Complete Arcane, which I'm assuming you have since you're using a warmage.

Also, take weapon focus (ranged spell), and then ranged spell specialization.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 06:05 PM
The Ranged spell spec. makes sense, but why Obtain Familiar?

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 06:32 PM
Well does anyone else have a better feat selection? Or is that as good as it's gona get?

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-07, 06:37 PM
Don't take either of those, or Obtain Familiar. It's just a bad idea. Right now, you need to capitalize on your damage dealing. First, Extra Edge is +3 more damage, but what you really wanna do is grab the Enervating Spell metamagic feat from Libris Mortis. Objects, Constructs, and Undead take 50% less damage, but living creatures take 50% more damage. Unlike Empower Spell, however, Enervating Spell only adds +1. Now, if you're focusing on Orb Spells pick up Arcane Thesis: Orb of [Energy] and aim for the Spellwarp Sniper PrC.

FYI: An Enervating Orb of Fire is +0 Spell Level.

the_tick_rules
2007-06-07, 06:38 PM
i'm just waiting for people to show up and tell you to get rid of the warmage and pick a real caster.

DraPrime
2007-06-07, 06:41 PM
I think that Combat Casting is a given. And of course, Battle Caster from complete arcane. Lets you use medium armor at lvl 3 without spell faliure.

Ivius
2007-06-07, 06:41 PM
i'm just waiting for people to show up and tell you to get rid of the warmage and pick a real caster.

Warmages aren't casters, they're archers with different fluff.

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-07, 06:41 PM
i'm just waiting for people to show up and tell you to get rid of the warmage and pick a real caster.

Being any other arcane caster is preferable, but he wants help with his warmage, not help choosing an arcane casting class.

EDIT: Combat Casting is a waste. Skill Focus (Concentration) is just as good and usable in more situations than Combat Casting.

EDIT#2: You may wanna look at picking up the Sudden X feats before you get them in the class progression. If you pick them up that way, Warmage gives you any other bonus metamagic feat instead. For free. And it doesn't specify wither you must qualify or not.

DraPrime
2007-06-07, 06:43 PM
The warmage is a fine class depending on the campaign your playing. If it's a roleplaying campaign then its a piece of crap. A lot of classes are like this.

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-07, 06:46 PM
The warmage is a fine class depending on the campaign your playing. If it's a roleplaying campaign then its a piece of crap. A lot of classes are like this.

Entirely wrong argument for the wrong thread.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 06:55 PM
Hmm... I don't think the Libris Mortus will be alowed.

So I'm looking at Extra Edge, and two sudden feats. Should I take that alternate class feature? Eclectic Learning, I think it's called.

EDIT: Actualy I just realized, Extra Edge has a prequisite of level 4 Warmage. I can't take it yet.

PinkysBrain
2007-06-07, 07:25 PM
Sudden maximize is a shoe in for any warmage ...

Falrin
2007-06-07, 07:31 PM
Thesis spell.

Empower spell.

Can you get rapid metamagic somehow? Ask your DM.

Weapon Focus, weapon finesse (touch), improved crit, spell penetration, Spell focus (evocation).

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 07:36 PM
Okay, so Sudden Maximize is the second feat.

Hows this: Sudden Still, Sudden Maximize, and... what Practiced Spellcaster?

EDIT: Opps, I was too slow. Thesis Spell? What is that from? The rest of those sound good too.

PinkysBrain
2007-06-07, 07:49 PM
Practiced spellcaster doesn't get you anything unless your caster level drops below your HD.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 07:58 PM
Oh. Now see, that's why I'm asking. So I don't make a mistake like that. :smallsmile:

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-07, 08:21 PM
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Sudden Empower

Standard boiler-plate I usually go with. Lets me shoot into melee without the -4, and a +1 to attack and damage at close range that stacks with warmage edge for little bonuses, mixed with Sudden Empower for when you really need the hit to hurt.


(Nothing says victory as much as 1-hitting a Mummy-Knight the DM cooked up to be a long and arduous battle with a Sudden Empowered Lesser Orb of Fire.)


Maximized is nice, but there's a chance (albiet a small one) of rolling that on your own. Empowering means more dice. More fun.

The Astrologist
2007-06-07, 08:27 PM
Battle Caster is your best friend. The only way you'll get a straight Warmage in Heavy Armor with no ASF

Armads
2007-06-07, 08:51 PM
Enervate Spell is a +2, but Energise is +1

PinkysBrain
2007-06-07, 09:04 PM
Battle Caster is your best friend. The only way you'll get a straight Warmage in Heavy Armor with no ASF
Meh, you need some dex for your ranged touch attacks anyway ... heavy armor is overrated, hell the entire ability of the warmage to wear armor is overrated.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 09:20 PM
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Sudden Empower

Standard boiler-plate I usually go with. Lets me shoot into melee without the -4, and a +1 to attack and damage at close range that stacks with warmage edge for little bonuses, mixed with Sudden Empower for when you really need the hit to hurt.


(Nothing says victory as much as 1-hitting a Mummy-Knight the DM cooked up to be a long and arduous battle with a Sudden Empowered Lesser Orb of Fire.)


Maximized is nice, but there's a chance (albiet a small one) of rolling that on your own. Empowering means more dice. More fun.
Okay, that sounds like something I would want. Some non-spell feats to help should I run out of spells. :smallsmile: Only thing is I don't think that Warmage Edge affects ranged attacks... :smallconfused: Unless Warmage spells count as a ranged weapon. :smallconfused:

Dhavaer
2007-06-07, 09:28 PM
Okay, that sounds like something I would want. Some non-spell feats to help should I run out of spells. :smallsmile: I do believe I will go with this. Only thing is I don't think that Warmage Edge affects ranged attacks... :smallconfused: Unless Warmage spells count as a ranged weapon. :smallconfused:

Spells count as ranged weapons if you need to make a ranged attack roll. So the Orb spells, for example, count as ranged weapons.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-07, 09:37 PM
Wow, now that is something. I didn't know that. Okay then, so the feats are selected. :smallbiggrin: So... that just leaves gear to purchace.

Any good magical gear that fits the Warmage?

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-08, 05:08 AM
Cloak of Charisma +X is always useful. You'll want wands. Maybe look into the Dual Wand Wielder and Dual Wand Activation feats for later.

Oh and don't bother with Spell Focus(Evocation), Spell Penetration, or Weapon Focus. None of these will help you. The spells you throw shouldn't allow SR(Orbs) or saves that matter(again, Orbs). And Weapon Focus is just silly.

FYI: If you're worried about running out of spells.. Don't. You're a blaster with sorcerer spell slots. You have plenty. And if that doesn't help, then when 6th level rolls around I suggest picking up a [Reserve] feat if you're that worried about it. Maybe talk ot your DM about applying your Warmage Edge to the reserve ability since it is technically a spell you cast. Helpful, but not really overpowering in strength.

Soepvork
2007-06-08, 06:40 AM
I'm surprised no one mentioned these two:

Point blank shot -> precise shot

In my opinion, precise shot is a must have for any archer.

Edit: Bleh, I overlooked the previous post for precise shot

Person_Man
2007-06-08, 10:27 AM
I suggest the Stormcaster PrC from Stormwrack. All enemies hit by any of their energy attacks must Save or be Stunned for 1 round (which also makes them drop whatever they're holding), in addition to their normal damage and effects. VERY useful at all levels. Plus when you don't want to waste spells or are just running low, you can still use 0th and 1st level spells as a ranged Stun attacks. They also get some other nifty special abilities.

For extra fun, take the Born of The Three Thunders feat (Complete Arcane). Now whenever you cast an energy spell, your enemies must make a Fort Save TWICE or be Stunned for one round, and if they fail either Fort Save they must make a Reflex Save or be knocked Prone, In ADDITION to the spells normal effects. You are then Dazed for one round (no Save). This can be fixed by the Quick Recovery feat (Lords of Madness) which specifically allows you to use a Move action to Save against any Daze or Stun effect, even if the original effect didn't allow a Saving Throw. So you can cast every round, and incapacitate pretty much everyone on the battlefield every round.


And yes, the Warmage is essentially an archer (and not a particularly great one), just like the Duskblade is essentially a Barbarian (that's quite effective at hitting things really really hard).

melchizedek
2007-06-08, 12:48 PM
Look into collecting at least the first three portions of the Seven Veils item set from the Magic Item Compendium. The items grant extra damage when you hit an opponent with a specific type of energy. For a head, waist, and torso slot, you get to add 1d6 to a fire spell, 2d6 to a cold spell, and 4d6 to an electricity spell. You can do each of these things 3/day.

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-08, 01:00 PM
Cloak of Charisma
Gloves of Dexterity
Metamagic rods
Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows
Soulfire Buckler +X

Matthew
2007-06-10, 10:27 AM
EDIT#2: You may wanna look at picking up the Sudden X feats before you get them in the class progression. If you pick them up that way, Warmage gives you any other bonus metamagic feat instead. For free. And it doesn't specify wither you must qualify or not.

I'm pretty sure that the default situation is that you have to qualify. Bonus Feat Slots that allow characters to take Feats that they otherwise don't qualify for are always specified.

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-10, 10:30 AM
I'm pretty sure that the default situation is that you have to qualify. Bonus Feat Slots that allow characters to take Feats that they otherwise don't qualify for are always specified.

You do have to qualify, but many DMs allow sudden feats to stack to allow you to Sudden Empower 2/day.

I remember it irked my DM so much the time when at level 6, I dropped a Sudden Empowered, Sudden Maximized, and from a lesser rod of Quickening, quickened fireball on his ogres. An entire encounter. One spell.

lord_khaine
2007-06-10, 10:43 AM
as Seffbasilisk allready said, point blank shot and precise shot are a must, when you have friends in melee combat with your target.

but as for the 3rd feat, i would recomend getting improved initiative, going first can often mean the difference betveen getting to fireball all your opponents, or fireball all your opponents + all your friends.

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-10, 10:57 AM
Improved Initiative DOES have a benifit, but only if you have a clunky group that can't be quiet. If you have a decent dex, and your group is somewhat adept at sneaking, it becomes less of a need.

Also, it provides a static bonus of +4. Which never changes. As of that, I generally end up overlooking it in favor of the myrad other feats a warmage can dip into.

If you don't want to grab a sudden feat, and prefer instead for something with a little more versatility (as I often do), I would suggest a Reserve feat from Complete Mage.

I usually go with 'Storm Bolt' which lets you shoot lower-powered shorter lightning bolts as long as you have a spellslot unused. Definite benifits? +1 CL for electricity spells, and it's an AoE with no saving throw. Also? No SR. And you can hurl them all day, no issue.

One of best bits of a Warlock, and you can do it for a single feat. You can try some of the others, but I believe storm bolt's the best of the lot, especially for a warmage. And even after you've dropped half a score of these bolts into someone, you can still spend the slot with no issue at all. Won't be able to storm bolt after, but hey, sometimes you need to dump a blast.

Also, remember, burn your cantrips. In battle you'll find you almost never use them, so find creative uses for them. Especially 'Light'. It's always fun.


Also, once you get high enough level, I'd suggest taking 'Improved Precise Shot', find something to give you blindsense or blindsight (even better!), and no one will be able to dodge the orbs you hurl with a vengeance.

serow
2007-06-10, 12:07 PM
Is your Int high enough to get decent damage from Warmage Edge?
If it is, then more Warmage is an option.
Point Blank Shot + Precise Shot never hurts.

If Int isn't high enough, and can't be made much higher (possibly due to campaign restrictions and such), have you considered prestige classing?
I hear Mage of the Arcane Order is a decent option for the Warmage who wants to be something other than blasting all the time.

Lycurgus
2007-06-10, 02:01 PM
I've played a couple of Warmages and the point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus (ranged touch) set has saved me and my party more than once. Improved initiative and combat casting are also good. Remember, boys and girls, you never know when that +1 will save the universe. :smallwink:

As for equipment, an Amulet of Natural Armor is always fantastic. Go stacking AC!

lord_khaine
2007-06-10, 02:19 PM
yeah that +4 bonus to iniative newer changes, but it grants a % based bonus, wich means that it benit it gives stays the same, while the advantages of going first in initiative only grows.

for higher lvs i belive there is a feat, or alternative class ability from somewhere, that allows you to pick spells from other schools.
in that case i will defently recomend grapping see invisibility and dispel magic as fast as you can.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-11, 08:12 AM
Is your Int high enough to get decent damage from Warmage Edge?
If it is, then more Warmage is an option.

Do you mean Extra Edge? I can't remember how high his Int is (It's on my home PC).:smallredface: And it dosen't matter anyway, because it's for Warmages lv. 4 and up . I start a Lv.3.


for higher lvs i belive there is a feat, or alternative class ability from somewhere, that allows you to pick spells from other schools.
in that case i will defently recomend grapping see invisibility and dispel magic as fast as you can.

That would be Eclectic Learning from PHB2. Yeah, I'm definately gona take it now. Get some nice utility spells.:smallsmile:

Person_Man
2007-06-11, 10:13 AM
I've played a couple of Warmages and the point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus (ranged touch) set has saved me and my party more than once. Improved initiative and combat casting are also good. Remember, boys and girls, you never know when that +1 will save the universe. :smallwink:

As for equipment, an Amulet of Natural Armor is always fantastic. Go stacking AC!

Weapon Focus, along with most other feats that grant small discrete bonuses, are a bad idea. Metamagic adds new effects and multiply your damage. Thus, they are mathematically a better idea.

Avoid spells which require an attack roll. Remember, if you miss your attack roll, you deal 0 damage. If your enemy makes a Save, you still deal base*metamagic+Warmage bonuses*0.5 damage. So you're better off using those spells. And if you're smart about it, they'll usually fail. Use Reflex Saves against meat shields, Fort Saves against Sneaky types.

You're playing a nerfed class. If you're not smart about it, then your build will be hopeless.

lord_khaine
2007-06-11, 10:23 AM
i disagree, using ranget touch spells is usualy a good idea, as the roll to hit isnt that hard.
what would you think is best, doing 100% of the damage 90% of the time, or doing 100% of the damage 60% + 50% of the damage 35% of the time?

and you isnt playing a nerfed class, warmage is good at what its suposed to do, blast things into pieces.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-11, 10:31 AM
I chose to play Warmage for fun and ease of play. :smallsmile: It just looked a lot simpler than a Wizard. I'm still fairly new to D&D, so easy classes are higher on my priority list than other, more confusing classes.

Lycurgus
2007-06-11, 11:57 AM
They are really fun. The spells you have that are ranged touch spells are actually pretty good spells, and like khaine said, a touch attack usually isn't that hard. If you get someone who is avoiding your spells, there is always magic missle. A little advice, since you are fairly new, I have always found it more satisfying to build a character based on flavor rather than numbers. If you feel like making a warmage who is really into history and want to take skill focus for knowledge(history), go for it. There is no such thing as a wasted feat as long as you are having fun with it.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-11, 12:13 PM
Hey thanks man.:smallsmile: I'll try and remember that when I build my characters.

Okay, so I have a new question. A Warmage is a spontaineous caster, so does that mean that I could use say... Magic Missile as many times as I can cast spells that day? Or is it one time only? From what I have read from the book it does not clarify.:smallfrown:

Morty
2007-06-11, 12:23 PM
Yes, you can cast magic missle, or any spell from you list, as many times as you can cast spells per day.

skywalker
2007-06-11, 12:49 PM
I know the discussion about feats has long since passed by, but I have to chip in that after my group's wizard got nailed twice and became the butt of all jokes, I bought him complete arcane for christmas and he took sudden max and empower to be useful.

He makes our DM cry every session because of those two feats. He is a menace to Orc-ish society.

Sudden max and empower are especially useful if your party is the type that rests after one encounter. So if you aren't planning on taking either of these, reconsider. They gets points just for making the DM's eyes go wide, IMHO.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-12, 11:41 AM
Yes, you can cast magic missle, or any spell from you list, as many times as you can cast spells per day.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.:smallsmile:

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-06-12, 11:54 AM
Since the Warmage does have a lot of area effect spells, I recommend taking Explosive Spell and Enlarge Spell. Dropping that on top of a Stormcaster with the stunning ability; and the Born of the Three Thunders feat... battlefield control with damage. For a 7th level spell cost (when you get there) nothing is funnier than taking a Lightniong Bolt, turning it into a 120' line of electricity with bonus sonic damage that has 2 fort saves vs stunning and being knocked prone 120' away; AND taking an extra 12d6 of falling damage that you cannot prevent due to resistance or DR. =_)

If your DM is partial, try to get as may items that drive the save DC's of your spells thru the roof. That would be your only hinderance; is the Save DC's.

You see, every class is good. It's all a matter of the build.

Lycurgus
2007-06-13, 11:20 AM
When you are buying armor make sure to take a look at mithril if you can afford it. If you are in a setting where sharkskin armor is available it is also very good. Also, weapons-wise, a crossbow can be a really good choice, especially if you have a high DEX. If you decided to take Point Blank and Precise Shots, even better. That way when you do run out of spells you can snipe away while doing a decent amount of damage.

Ghal Marak
2007-06-13, 11:41 AM
Thats almost exactly what I had planned on. But what does Sharkskin armor do? I've neaver heard of it before. Is it from the Stormwrack book?

Lycurgus
2007-06-17, 02:37 PM
yeah it's in stormwrack and i think the arms and equipment guide
its light, +3 ac, +6 dex, -1 check, 10% 30 ft. added bonus:+6 on escape artist vs. ropes from the teeth on the shoulders

Lycurgus
2007-06-19, 09:13 AM
Weapon Focus, along with most other feats that grant small discrete bonuses, are a bad idea. Metamagic adds new effects and multiply your damage. Thus, they are mathematically a better idea.

Avoid spells which require an attack roll. Remember, if you miss your attack roll, you deal 0 damage. If your enemy makes a Save, you still deal base*metamagic+Warmage bonuses*0.5 damage. So you're better off using those spells. And if you're smart about it, they'll usually fail. Use Reflex Saves against meat shields, Fort Saves against Sneaky types.

You're playing a nerfed class. If you're not smart about it, then your build will be hopeless.

Telling people to pick this or that for their character based on mathematics is a bad idea. Try picking something because it suits the flavor of the character. If you play a priest of Kord, for example, I would suggest taking Athletic. Playing a character based on numbers is something for video games, not roleplaying. I agree that wizards should take max ranks in Knowledge(Arcane) and Spellcraft, priests in Knowledge(Religion) and Knowledge(The Planes). This reflects their course of study and development and shouldn't be chosen because it will give you advantage over this or that. If your gaming group promotes that, go for it. In mine we either correct or eject min/maxing metagamers. Nothing kills roleplaying like rollplaying.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-19, 09:20 AM
For the love of God, DON'T get Combat Casting. Get Skill Focus Concentration. You only ge +3 on concentration but you get it all the tme instead of just when you cast defensivly.

Person_Man
2007-06-19, 10:29 AM
Telling people to pick this or that for their character based on mathematics is a bad idea. Try picking something because it suits the flavor of the character. If you play a priest of Kord, for example, I would suggest taking Athletic.

Playing a character based on numbers is something for video games, not roleplaying.

Nothing kills roleplaying like rollplaying.

First, nice handle. I highly suggest reading Plutarch’s “Lives,” if you haven’t done so already.

To respond to your post, crunch does not equal fluff (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11990222&postcount=2). Taking the Athletic feat doesn’t make my character more athletic, it just wastes a feat on a minor Skill bonus. If I want to be more athletic, I need decent physical stats, and I just have to describe him as being very athletic. Then I kill my enemies with my superior feat selection, and attribute my victory to my diligent training and faith in Kord.

Being smart about crunch in no way precludes excellent roleplaying. Sometimes the challenge of playing a weak build is the fun, and if you like playing mechanically weak characters, more power to you. For example, one of my favorite PC's of all time was a Kobold Scout. He was mechanically the weakest PC in the game, and I liked that about him. Most of the other players in that particular group were pretty new, and being a veteran, I didn't want to overshadow them. Yet if someone posted that they wanted to play a Skill Monkey, I would suggest a Beguiler or a Psychic Rogue. If they made the choice to be less powerful, then fine. But it'd would be silly to give someone advice on how to create a weak build.

For example, I would never suggest to someone that they buy a Jaguar, because they're overpriced and prone to constantly breaking down, and there are plenty of other better luxury sports cars out there. But if for whatever reason you feel your personality suits a Jaguar more then any other car (i.e., you've bought into the marketing fluff around it), that's fine. Just be aware that there are much better sports cars out there, that are demonstrably faster, safer, etc.

More to the point though, I can take any character concept or roleplaying fluff and optimize it. Nothing about optimizing my character in any way prevents me from roleplaying well. And if my twin brother is sitting next to me playing an un-optimized version of the same exact character, nothing about his poor crunch decisions in any way aids him in his roleplaying experience.



For the love of God, DON'T get Combat Casting. Get Skill Focus Concentration. You only ge +3 on concentration but you get it all the tme instead of just when you cast defensivly.

Both are poor decisions. Once you hit mid levels, you will easily be able to pass your checks to cast defensively. And how often does that happen, anyway? You're a caster, you should be standing in back and blowing stuff up.

Lycurgus
2007-06-19, 12:33 PM
Taking the Athletic feat doesn’t make my character more athletic, it just wastes a feat on a minor Skill bonus. If I want to be more athletic, I need decent physical stats, and I just have to describe him as being very athletic. Then I kill my enemies with my superior feat selection, and attribute my victory to my diligent training and faith in Kord.

Being smart about crunch in no way precludes excellent roleplaying. Sometimes the challenge of playing a weak build is the fun, and if you like playing mechanically weak characters, more power to you. For example, one of my favorite PC's of all time was a Kobold Scout. He was mechanically the weakest PC in the game, and I liked that about him. Most of the other players in that particular group were pretty new, and being a veteran, I didn't want to overshadow them. Yet if someone posted that they wanted to play a Skill Monkey, I would suggest a Beguiler or a Psychic Rogue. If they made the choice to be less powerful, then fine. But it'd would be silly to give someone advice on how to create a weak build.


More to the point though, I can take any character concept or roleplaying fluff and optimize it. Nothing about optimizing my character in any way prevents me from roleplaying well. And if my twin brother is sitting next to me playing an un-optimized version of the same exact character, nothing about his poor crunch decisions in any way aids him in his roleplaying experience.

Both are poor decisions. Once you hit mid levels, you will easily be able to pass your checks to cast defensively. And how often does that happen, anyway? You're a caster, you should be standing in back and blowing stuff up.

Taking Athletic (or any of that type of feat) shows that whatever attribute that feat describes is a large component of your character, generally through natural talent, sometimes from the character's upbringing. So yes, these feats can be a very good choice. These feats, along with ones such as skill focus and combat casting can be very, very helpful to characters at lower levels. Think of how many times a roll has failed by 4 or less. Combat casting and skill focus also show aspects of the character's training. Basing decisions on where a character "should be" can quickly lead to dead characters. That orc sneaking up on the caster doesn't really care where he should be, only that he has a clear shot on the kidneys of the person who has been blowing up the rest of his tribe. I'm sure you're thinking but I have this spell or that spell, but those things don't always work out either. That's part of the fun of the game.

Ionari
2007-06-24, 06:01 PM
They are really fun. The spells you have that are ranged touch spells are actually pretty good spells, and like khaine said, a touch attack usually isn't that hard.

Lycurgus and Khaine - my wizard has a heck of a time hitting the side of a barn with a ray spell. What feats / items / techniques do you use to get ranged touch spells to hit more reliably? And, what is the opportunity cost of those feats etc.? (I.e., if you were not concerned with getting attack rolls up, what would you use those feats on)?

Lycurgus
2007-06-25, 09:14 AM
Lycurgus and Khaine - my wizard has a heck of a time hitting the side of a barn with a ray spell. What feats / items / techniques do you use to get ranged touch spells to hit more reliably? And, what is the opportunity cost of those feats etc.? (I.e., if you were not concerned with getting attack rolls up, what would you use those feats on)?

Buy new dice! :smallwink: Like we said earlier, you can do Weapon Focus(Ray). Getting anything that increased your DEX will help you, whether that is a pair of Gloves of Dexterity, a wand or scrolls of Cat's Grace. I'm not sure if Point Blank and Precise Shot feats work with rays. You can always take a level of fighter. If you are playing a combat oriented wizard or warmage this works conceptually. You may give up that one level, but you gain an increase in BAB, a d10 of hitpoints, a larger availability of weapons for when you run out of spells, and a bonus feat that you can use on that weapon focus or point blank, etc.

Iku Rex
2007-06-25, 01:44 PM
Lycurgus and Khaine - my wizard has a heck of a time hitting the side of a barn with a ray spell. What feats / items / techniques do you use to get ranged touch spells to hit more reliably? And, what is the opportunity cost of those feats etc.? (I.e., if you were not concerned with getting attack rolls up, what would you use those feats on)?It's not really worth it to spend feats or worse, multiclass to fighter, just to hit with ray spells. My main advice would be to wait a few levels (even wizards get BAB) and try to buy a +Dex item.

There are a few spells that can help though.

Cat's grace (lv2) is an obvious one. Heroism (lv3) gets you a +2 morale bonus on attacks, saves and skill checks. Haste (lv3) grants +1 on attacks.

Heroics (lv2, SpellComp) lets you give yourself fighter feats like Weapon Focus: Ray, Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Seeking Ray (lv2, PHBII) deals 4d6 damage and grants a +4 bonus on future ray attacks if you hit. Create magic tattoo (lv2, SpellComp) can provide a +1 luck bonus and/or +2 competence bonus on attacks (depending on level), but you need skill ranks and a 100 gp spell component. Ray of clumsiness (lv2, SpellComp) lowers your opponents Dex, which means a lower touch AC. On higher levels polymorph (lv4) could give you higher Dex and smaller size.

Another trick is to use a spell like blink or greater invisibility to remove your opponents Dex bonus to AC.

Lycurgus
2007-06-26, 09:32 AM
How he sees is character's development will determine what is worth what. The benefits of a level of fighter can go a long way for a low level mage. Yeah, they get outshined by the spell casting ability later on, but that doesn't matter if you don't live that long. The Point Blank and Precise Shot feats are useful for thrown and projectile weapons as well, for when you run out of spells.