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TheLogman
2007-06-07, 10:08 PM
I'm going to be doing a 3-man+DM campaign this summer, but I'm worried about lack of versatility with only 3 people. I guess the problem is that in my mind, there are 4 roles that must be filled in a party: Close-range meatsheild/big damage, arcane caster, Divine caster with turn-undead+healing, and skill monkey/Sir sneaks and talks a lot. Since I've been playing the longest, I've decided to ask the DM to start at a higher level than 1, and allow me to take a prestige class. So, here's the question: Out of all the Prestige classes (Or even core classes if you have any ideas) (Available in Psionic Handbook, Mini's handbook, Dm's guide, and online) which would allow me to take on two of the basic roles at the lowest level? Right now, I'm thinking Mystic Thurge or Skullclan Hunter (From the mini's handbook) Oh, and I considered Binder (Tons of roles in one package) or Paladin (Meatshield AND Divine) , but Binder takes on one role a day, and that wouldn't help, and not only is one of the other players a Paladin, but the Pseudo-Clerical abilities come in too late and too weak to be a full-time party Cleric and Meatshield.

ocato
2007-06-07, 10:14 PM
Well, a cleric with the proper feats, good armor, and a respectable concentration modifier can effectively serve as frontline melee and a healer. If you take a few feats in the area of divine shield (+cha to Ac for half cleric level rounds for 1 turn attempt), then say, Divine metamagic and quicken, and you can heal before you full attack for 5 turn attempts. Grab extra turning of course. At lower levels this might be hard, but if the skill monkey pumps UMD properly, he can back you up with healing. Of course, this depends on how much your DM is likely to come off of healing wands.

Rahdjan
2007-06-07, 10:50 PM
I've found when in a 3 player situation is to Use classes that can switch role as needed. Duskblade, Ranger, Druid, Rogue ect... Don't worry about PrC's consentrate on versitility.

PinkysBrain
2007-06-07, 10:53 PM
There is always the artificer ;)

MeklorIlavator
2007-06-07, 11:18 PM
I would have a wizard, a CoDzilla, and either another CoDzilla(low-trap) or Rouge(high-trap). That pretty much covera all your bases, though power level might be a problem.

jjpickar
2007-06-07, 11:23 PM
Actually 3 is not that hard since they'll only be missing one type of character. If they don't have a skill monkey, don't have any high DC skill checks. No healer? just hand out more potions as treasure and make sure every town has a friendly temple. No melee character just means you'll have to make sure that the party doesn't get forced into close quarters fights (or at least make it possible to avoid :smallbiggrin:). If the lack an arcanist, tone down the CR of encounter usually only by one because without a decent Wizard or even a sorcerer, the party doe indeed take a hit to its overall strength.

TheLogman
2007-06-08, 06:33 AM
Okay, one of the players has been confirmed a Paladin, so that's meat shield and some divine stuff taken care of. Which other base does Druid cover? Cause if it's melee with Shapechange, then that won't help much at low levels (Like 3). Has anyone ever played a Paladin? Could I go Wizard, have the other guy go rouge, and then have the Paladin be the med-packs and the rouge help when needed with UMD?

Overlard
2007-06-08, 07:28 AM
A beguiler can fill the skill monkey slot, and overlap into the arcane caster easily (as long as you're not expecting fireballs and the like). A paladin can act as meat-shield with some healing. For the third character, I'd recommend a cleric or druid. Both are able up close & personal (and will really shine at that as they progress), and can provide healing & buffs, and later on they can provide the big flashy damaging spells that the beguiler can't.

Bards can cover most bases, but in a 3 man party will show their flaws too.

Or alternatively, try multiclassing. Rogue/barbarians can be interesting (especially sneak attacking and power attacking with the same raging hit), and you only need the occasional level of rogue to top up your skill points for essential skills. A ranger/rogue gives decent combat and skill abilities, or alternatively use the scout class for similar effects. Wizard/rogue goes well into arcane trickster (eventually). I'm mentioning rogues a lot here aren't I? Must be because I'm planning one for an upcoming campaign, and they're on my mind.

My instinct would be to go with the first option though, it's quite well rounded.

Rogues.

weenie
2007-06-08, 07:48 AM
The paladin&druid&arcane tricster combo seems to fit. The paladin has acces to some healing and diplomacy, and of course functions as a meat shield. The druid can provide healing, though not as much as a cleric, but for a 3 people party with a paladin that should be quiet enough, and when needed the druid can also change into a devastating melee fighter. The arcane tricster should provide enough arcane power to help in a fight(also via wands - don't forget sneak attacks can be used with rays!) and at the same time he can be an accomplished rouge with a buff or two. The only change i'd make is probably changing the paladin to ranger for some extra skills, but then again you said he made up his mind, and by having a druid and a ranger this may turn into a tree-hugging party.

Valdyr
2007-06-08, 07:52 AM
Don't count on your Paladin as your primary healer. Bad things tend to happen when you do this.

If you're doing low level, you might want to leave out the wizard. At low levels, like 3, they're not contributing a whole lot. I'd say another healer (at this point it could be bard, druid or cleric) and then skill monkey. A cleric would be good though because they have some offensive magic to compensate for your lack of wizard.

And, like jjpickar said, regardless of what the combination ends up being you'll have to adjust your encounters to make up for the hole in the lineup. I don't know how the CRs are determined, but I'm pretty sure that they make them assuming you've got at least the stereotyped Wiz/Ftr/Clr/Rge party.

draca
2007-06-08, 12:28 PM
Ever think about embracing the challenge of an "imbalanced" party?

If you all have your characters made in advance the DM can tailor the adventures to your strengths. Or you can role-play through being a rag-tag team. For instance, 3 rogues can sack a dungeon, by sneaking past or tricking what they can't take on, and sneak attacking the rest.

I've never had PC class choices be the mitigating factor in what will make or break a campaign.

LotharBot
2007-06-08, 12:40 PM
Depends on the campaign setting. Wilderness? Dungeons? City-based?

Druids make pretty good scouts with spot and listen as class skills and a high WIS. They're also decent healers and of course a full caster. You can even have them cover Diplomacy if you want. If you don't expect a large number of traps and your Pally can bash doors open, a Druid can cover most of the standard "rogue" role.

Then just take an arcane caster (Wiz, Sorc, some insane PrC) and you're covered.

I'm assuming your DM is talented enough to be able to create adventures without a ridiculous number of rogue-only situations (traps, stealing stuff without people noticing)... if so, go Druid and Arcane Caster.

melchizedek
2007-06-08, 12:50 PM
You might also ask your DM about trying a Gestalt Campaign.

Everyman
2007-06-08, 02:05 PM
I agree with some of the posters. You really shouldn't worry about filling in the gaps in your party. Rather, you should just try and build what you want and let the DM compensate.

However, if you really want to fill those gaps, I'd suggest either...
1) Paladin (warrior and a little divine action...mostly healing)
2) Bard (front man, morale buffer, and skill monkey, especially UMD)
3) Druid (back-up melee, physical buffer, healer, some direct spell effects)

--OR--

1) Paladin (as above)
2) Bard (front man, buffer, skill monkey)
3) Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge (control, direct spell effects, indirect spell effects)

Matthew
2007-06-10, 10:56 AM
Paladin, Cleric and Beguiler would be my likely choice. A combined Arcanist/Rogue of some kind, anyway. As stated, though, the ECL of any encounter is adjusted to fit your party, rather than your party stretching its resources to fit a predetermined ECL. It doesn't matter whether you start at Level 1 or Level 20 in this regard.