Melee Lore Bard

[Rajah]

If I go elf, take a SCAG cantrip, then use 6th level magical secrets to take some smites or other good melee spells, is it possible for a lore bard to compete with the valor bard as a gish? Lore bard appeals to me more but I still want to melee a bit. Also, not looking to multiclass.

[spartan_ah]

If u go elf it'll be INT as an attack stat.
But if u go 2 warlock. Then you'll have it all.
I'm a lore bard warlock and I got my hands on instrument of the bard. So i have CHA shillellagh

[Waazraath]

If I go elf, take a SCAG cantrip, then use 6th level magical secrets to take some smites or other good melee spells, is it possible for a lore bard to compete with the valor bard as a gish? Lore bard appeals to me more but I still want to melee a bit. Also, not looking to multiclass.

If I had to go lorebard gish, without multiclass, I´d go for a small race, find steed as first spell at lvl 6, and pick spells that would increase attack / damage from the steed as well. For some part, it will be DM-dependend wether spells would work (like the smite spells, or if spiritual guardians would be doubled). But that would be a way to increase the number of attacks and your damage, without extra attack. Also, a small creature should be able to take the medium mount in almost every dungeon.

[Rajah]

Green flame blade relies on INT? I don't remember that.

[spartan_ah]

Green flame blade relies on INT? I don't remember that.

Damage is based on spell casting ability.

[Dimolyth]

Greenflame Blade deals "spellcasting stat" damage to secondary target before 5 level (then 1d8+stat). For high elf that is INT, not Cha. Booming Blade, on other hand, is not stat dependent. Though it requires Mobile feat to play it repeatative.

You can always multiclass to sorcerer/warlock for Cha modifier on those cantrips. Sorcerer1 would get free 13+Dex AC and access to both Greenflame/Booming Blade, and, that is even more important to mellee gish - Con save proficiency. Warlock1 can grant you eldritch blast (though, then you need somewhere dip on more level for Agonizing Blast).
I would pick sorcerer1 - for cantrips, draconic defences, Shield, Con saves, spell slot stacking.
Or you can take Booming Blade as an elf, and then you will peak Greenflame cantrip as Magical Secret, if you have enough room for it there.

Personnaly, as a bard, I would rely on cantrips/weapons in mellee damage dealing using my slots for debuff/utility/control. Nevertheless, smites/hexes/hunter`s marks will rock perfectly)

[bardo]

No medium armour. No shield. No AC spells. D8 hit die. And your plan is to walk into melee on purpose? I don't think you realise how squishy you are compared to how hard mobs hit. Did you roll 18 on both DEX and CON? because then you might be able to survive a round or two.

Stand as far away as you can from anything that looks sharp or heavy.

Bardo.

[Waazraath]

No medium armour. No shield. No AC spells. D8 hit die. And your plan is to walk into melee on purpose? I don't think you realise how squishy you are compared to how hard mobs hit. Did you roll 18 on both DEX and CON? because then you might be able to survive a round or two.

Stand as far away as you can from anything that looks sharp or heavy.

Bardo.

Or go mounted, with a lance, hit and run, 1 attack (maybe with cantrip), smite spell, move back, if neccesary.

[Hudsonian]

If you want a little extra staying power it seems like a mountain dwarf would help a little. That would get you medium armor and a little boost to strength based damage. I wouldn't think that DEX would be automatically better than STR on a bard.

(Especially if you convince your DM to give you an Axitar!)

http://tylorkranyak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/battle_axe_guitar_by_monkeybro0.jpg

[bardo]

Or go mounted, with a lance, hit and run, 1 attack (maybe with cantrip), smite spell, move back, if neccesary.

No lance proficiency though. "Simple weapons, hand crossbows, longswords, rapiers, shortswords".

Bardo.

[MaxWilson]

Or go mounted, with a lance, hit and run, 1 attack (maybe with cantrip), smite spell, move back, if neccesary.

If you're going to kite, you probably need to make sure that melee kiting is only your secondary mode, not your primary. That is, have Eldritch Blast with Booming Blade + Disengage as a backup. If Booming Blade + Disengage is your primary mode, you waste twice as much movement getting in and out every turn, which will usually leave you still in range to be attacked by the enemy every turn. Instead, use your ranged attack most of the time, and use your melee attack only on enemies that use their movement to pursue you.

[Rajah]

No medium armour. No shield. No AC spells. D8 hit die. And your plan is to walk into melee on purpose? I don't think you realise how squishy you are compared to how hard mobs hit. Did you roll 18 on both DEX and CON? because then you might be able to survive a round or two.

Stand as far away as you can from anything that looks sharp or heavy.

Bardo.

Can go human and take the moderately armored feat at level 1. Medium + shields. Then with level 6 magical secrets, load up on SCAG cantrip and perhaps Hex or a smite. It might take till level 6 to get going, but it seems ok.

[MeeposFire]

hex is not worth it on a class that is making one attack per round. IT shines when you are hitting several times a round such as with eldritch blast or with extra attacks on your attack action.

I guess if you nothing else from the warlock you would rather have as a bonus st level spell go for it but it really isn;t that great in this situation.

[djreynolds]

Can go human and take the moderately armored feat at level 1. Medium + shields. Then with level 6 magical secrets, load up on SCAG cantrip and perhaps Hex or a smite. It might take till level 6 to get going, but it seems ok.

Are you allowed to multiclass? What are your stats? What is your party? I mean my wizard, because of my poor spell selection, tanks often but doesn't do well in terms of damage output in melee.

If you can multiclass, then do so. Do not waste a feat on moderately armored if you can get it with knowledge cleric which adds to your lore-ness. Ranger could be a welcome addition to your skills.

If you cannot multiclass, moderately armored is very good for any class that can take it like rogue and bard.

Do you have to be in melee? Or are you helping out in melee? Big difference there.

[Zman]

Without Multiclassing it'll be incredibly difficult and inefficient. I'd definitely suggest at least a single level Dip.

Draconic Sorcerer does well, AC13 +Dex, Con Prof(If 1st level), Booming Blade, Greenflame blade, and Shield Spells. Cha 13 is easy.

Wizard is worse, gives you Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, Shield and Mage Armor, Requires Int 13.

Fighter is good, Martial Weapons and All Armor and Shields, Con Proficienty(If 1st level), Fighting Style(Defense, Dueling, or Two Weapon Fighting), and Second Wind is useful. Dex 13 is easy.

Fighter is great, but you really need a melee Cantrip with only a single attack, picking up Magic Initiate for Sorcerer Melee Cantrips and a single sue Shield isn't terrible.

[djreynolds]

Give us an image of what you foresee this guy as. what does he do in combat? How does he kill? Why lore bard? Indiana Jones? I want to help optimize your concept?

[SwordChuck]

So I played a melee Level 12 Outlander Half-Orc Lore Bard :)

No MC so for feats I took Moderately Armored, Weapon Master, and Mobile.

I would use my greataxe to kite a single enemy or Two short swords when I needed to attack two enemies. I would also keep expeditious retreat or haste up whenever I wanted the extra movement or extra greataxe attack. I grabbed some emergency healing spells for just in case.

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

[djreynolds]

So I played a melee Level 12 Outlander Half-Orc Lore Bard :)

No MC so for feats I took Moderately Armored, Weapon Master, and Mobile.

I would use my greataxe to kite a single enemy or Two short swords when I needed to attack two enemies. I would also keep expeditious retreat or haste up whenever I wanted the extra movement or extra greataxe attack. I grabbed some emergency healing spells for just in case.

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

Now that has flavor. Really cool. I wished every race had a racial weapon. But good use of weapon master too.

[PoeticDwarf]

No medium armour. No shield. No AC spells. D8 hit die. And your plan is to walk into melee on purpose? I don't think you realise how squishy you are compared to how hard mobs hit. Did you roll 18 on both DEX and CON? because then you might be able to survive a round or two.

Stand as far away as you can from anything that looks sharp or heavy.

Bardo.

Monk has some higher AC, low level not really and the same HD, of course you will more often go down but a valor bard only has 1 or 2 AC higher and is perfect for melee...

[Specter]

Magic Initiate/Warlock multiclass for Hex may be worth a look.

[SwordChuck]

Magic Initiate/Warlock multiclass for Hex may be worth a look.

You need multihits to make hex worth it. Taking Eldritch blast to get multihits means you aren't melee.

However... Taking hex and making a grappler or shoving type character would be interesting. You would need to beef up your bard a bit (Mountain Dwarf bard...) but it could be done. Mobile + MI (warlock) + tavern brawler could be an interesting way to put creatures in a bad situation. Probabaly would need Resilience Con too...

Yeah I'm making this to see how it would look lol.

Edit×××

The Falcon Punch

Mountain Dwarf Outlander Bard (Lore) 12

Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

Notable Skills: Ahtletics (Expertise)

Feats
Magic Initiate (cantrip, cantrip, Hex)
Tavern Brawler
Resilence (Con)
Mobile

Idea: Hex is a bonus action, use that on scary target the first round and attack someone else or whatever.

Next round move and if an enemy is in your way then hit them and keep moving toward the hex target, remember you can jump 16', when all is clear jump at the target. Use your BA to shove the target to the ground and then use your action (if you didn't use it for mobile) to attack the creature on the ground for advantage. With expertise in athletics you should win most of the time.

Make sure to yell "Faaaaaalcon Puuuunch"

Note: When you hex the creature make sure to pick Str or Dex, whichever one the creature seems to be better at (kinda hard not to tell typically). You will have expertise on the shove and the target will have disadvantage.


Edit 2×××

Performance expertise for style.

Edit 3×××

Mixed up the bonus action for tavern brawler and shield master... You can still do this but you won't be attacking the target, your lunch will just be a shove.

[bardo]

Monk has some higher AC, low level not really and the same HD, of course you will more often go down but a valor bard only has 1 or 2 AC higher and is perfect for melee...

At low levels melee is a possibility for any class. Step right up and take a swing, there's no need to build for it, just hope the dice favour the brave. As the party goes up in levels the lore bard more HP and Cutting Words for survivability, nothing to improve their attack action. Even Vicious Mockery starts to look good compared to the lore bard's attack action at level 5. It's probably time to phase out the attack action, take cover, and use Cutting Words to help others.

Look at what SwordChuck's half-orc had to sacrifice to keep the attack action relevant: pump STR over CHA, take three feats, use spell slots and concentration for haste. That's a big commitment to the flavour (and the flavour is awesome). But in terms of optimization, if you want a bard who uses the attack action at higher levels just go Valor.

Bardo.

[SwordChuck]

At low levels melee is a possibility for any class. Step right up and take a swing, there's no need to build for it, just hope the dice favour the brave. As the party goes up in levels the lore bard more HP and Cutting Words for survivability, nothing to improve their attack action. Even Vicious Mockery starts to look good compared to the lore bard's attack action at level 5. It's probably time to phase out the attack action, take cover, and use Cutting Words to help others.

Look at what SwordChuck's half-orc had to sacrifice to keep the attack action relevant: pump STR over CHA, take three feats, use spell slots and concentration for haste. That's a big commitment to the flavour (and the flavour is awesome). But in terms of optimization, if you want a bard who uses the attack action at higher levels just go Valor.

Bardo.

Oh yeah, if I wanted to optimize I would have went a few different ways. However we were playing a Iron Chef type challenge for the game (lore bard was secret ingredient).

Though even with Valore bard, I'm a big fan of the low Charisma half orc death machine. What's fun is to build a low level crit fisher. Sleep + attack is fun.

[djreynolds]

Many spells can allow a caster to tank effectively. But casters in melee can become MAD. Having to focus on the caster stat, constitution, and most likely dexterity, or strength if they have found another AC alternative.

A caster can use cantrips in melee, could be at disadvantage but crossbow expert does work for ranged spell attacks in melee and with war caster, eldritch blast or fire bolt are okay. But you are stuck with one very good attack per turn that does good damage and scales with level.

Hold Person is a very good spell for casters, especially in melee. Your buddies will like it. You will have to be inventive to use spells in melee to attack, protect you, and buff.

If you are looking to be awesome in melee, you can do it with a spell and not a sword.