Cloud coming to SSB

[danzibr]

I just learned today (I'm a bit behind) that Cloud's coming to SSB tomorrow! I'm super excited about this.

[Blackdrop]

Wait, like FF7 Cloud? Seriously?

Edit: Holy crap you're right! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wah7AGkkzl4&ab_channel=SuperSmashBros.) What is this nonsense!?

[Zevox]

Huh, I didn't realize he was releasing tomorrow. That was quick compared to Mewtwo and Lucas. Guess they just held back announcing him a lot more than those two.

I don't really care personally, and don't plan to pick him up - not really a Final Fantasy fan, didn't even finish FF7 when I tried it. But it's nice to see Smash's DLC continuing anyway, and I'm hoping the coming Direct gives us a few good new ones, and that there will be at least one I'll actually grab. (So far I got Mewtwo and Lucas, skipped Ryu and Roy.)

[danzibr]

Whelp, didn't come out yesterday as people predicted. Still not out today. Man, I want to try him out.

[JadedDM]

Now I wonder what Kirby will look like if he eats Cloud...

[gooddragon1]

I don't play smash brothers. However, if they've got Cloud, they have to have Sephiroth.

Also, his sword should extend across the screen...

I'd like to seen Kenshiro and Raoh come to SSB. The problem would be that their opponents would already be dead when the match started.

[danzibr]

Now I wonder what Kirby will look like if he eats Cloud...
Ahh the hairdo :P

[NeoVid]

Cloud ended up in Smash and not in Playstation All-Stars, when he was one of the poster boys for the PS-exclusive era? I know the reason is obvious (extremely popular character gets in the game people actually care about), but I suppose my hope of every system through the eras getting a Smash Brothers-ish game was a pipe dream.

[Zevox]

Cloud ended up in Smash and not in Playstation All-Stars, when he was one of the poster boys for the PS-exclusive era? I know the reason is obvious (extremely popular character gets in the game people actually care about), but I suppose my hope of every system through the eras getting a Smash Brothers-ish game was a pipe dream.
I do still hope to see Sony give PS All-Stars another try, personally. If they can just correct the obvious gameplay design problems that so many people pointed out with it, they could still put out a good game of this sort, and it would be nice to see more games like Smash around.

[Suichimo]

I don't play smash brothers. However, if they've got Cloud, they have to have Sephiroth.

Also, his sword should extend across the screen...

I'd like to seen Kenshiro and Raoh come to SSB. The problem would be that their opponents would already be dead when the match started.

Sephiroth should never, and likely won't, touch the game as any more than a cameo. I remember back during the development of Brawl, Sakurai said the requirements for a third party character were that they had to originate in games and that they had to have appeared on a Nintendo system. Cloud barely scrapes by that second requirement. Just as well, I think the inclusion of Cloud was a massively missed opportunity. Why not a character a bit more intrinsically tied to Nintendo like Cecil or Crono? How about Neku from TWEWY? Bravely Second is coming out in a few month, any of the four from BDFF could have been in.

[danzibr]

Sephiroth should never, and likely won't, touch the game as any more than a cameo. I remember back during the development of Brawl, Sakurai said the requirements for a third party character were that they had to originate in games and that they had to have appeared on a Nintendo system. Cloud barely scrapes by that second requirement. Just as well, I think the inclusion of Cloud was a massively missed opportunity. Why not a character a bit more intrinsically tied to Nintendo like Cecil or Crono? How about Neku from TWEWY? Bravely Second is coming out in a few month, any of the four from BDFF could have been in.
As much as I love Cloud, now this I'd like to see.

[Maryring]

Yeah. If they wanted a Final Fantasy character, they should've gone with Terra or Celes (or both) from Final Fantasy VI. The game was a huge hit, and they'd both be solid representatives of the SNES era. They'd also provide another magi-knight to fight in Smash. I know I'd far prefer their combat style in the game.

[Drascin]

The reason is pure and simple popularity. I like FFVI more than VII, but it would be bald-faced denial to try to say that Cloud isn't a ****load more recognizable than Terra ever was, to the mainstream public. Cloud was basically the face of Square and RPGs for a generation, and people will defend FFVII to death. Nintendo and Square wouldn't have gotten half the buzz from Cecil than they just did with Cloud.

[The Hellbug]

Yeah. If they wanted a Final Fantasy character, they should've gone with Terra or Celes (or both) from Final Fantasy VI. The game was a huge hit, and they'd both be solid representatives of the SNES era. They'd also provide another magi-knight to fight in Smash. I know I'd far prefer their combat style in the game.

Even if they were trying to include someone from the SNES era of Final Fantasy, I think they'd choose Cecil over anyone from VI because he's significantly more main-character-y. Final Fantasy VI kind of had an ensemble cast thing going which kind of dilutes an easy decision on who to include, while Cecil in IV is very obviously the main character.

That said (and like basically everyone else has said), Cloud is a bamillion times more recognizable than anyone from the SNES era. It's just kind of funny that he's the main character from the first main installment of Final Fantasy not on a Nintendo system.

[danzibr]

For the non-Nintendo stuff, I don't think it really matters at all. Cecil would be cool and all, but this is how I see it.

Sonic has deep roots far away from Nintendo.
Pacman has been on plenty of non-Nintendo systems.
The Final Fantasy series isn't even really a series. They're almost all set in different universes. It's more like... Cloud is PlayStation icon, without much of anything to do with Nintendo.

[Dienekes]

The reason is pure and simple popularity. I like FFVI more than VII, but it would be bald-faced denial to try to say that Cloud isn't a ****load more recognizable than Terra ever was, to the mainstream public. Cloud was basically the face of Square and RPGs for a generation, and people will defend FFVII to death. Nintendo and Square wouldn't have gotten half the buzz from Cecil than they just did with Cloud.

I'll second this, I'm not a Final Fantasy guy, I only ever played about a half hour of one of them before I got bored and stopped. I have no idea what any of the other names being brought up are, but even I know who Cloud and Sephiroth are. Those two, the silliness of the Buster Sword, and Kefka make up the sum total of my Final Fantasy knowledge.

[Zevox]

The reason is pure and simple popularity.
More or less - though I'd wager the upcoming remake of FF7 also has something to do with it, at least on Square-Enix's side of things. Putting Cloud into a popular fighting game is basically free advertising for that as far they're concerned, after all.

[The TechnoGnome]

Yeah, popularity is what wins out here. Cloud is by far one of the most recognizable Final Fantasy characters, if not the most period. And people really wanted him in the game, so Sakurai delivered.

Personally, I'm more excited for the Tuesday Smash Direct. I'm hoping they announce who the ballot selected to get in.

[Zevox]

Yeah, popularity is what wins out here. Cloud is by far one of the most recognizable Final Fantasy characters, if not the most period. And people really wanted him in the game, so Sakurai delivered.

Personally, I'm more excited for the Tuesday Smash Direct. I'm hoping they announce who the ballot selected to get in.
I certainly hope so, given it will supposedly be the last Smash 4 Direct (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/smash-bros-nintendo-direct-coming-next-week-will-d/1100-6432953/).

I'm hoping to see some new characters I'll be interested in picking up, but I'm not sure how likely that is. The characters I'd most like to see just don't seem like popular enough choices - Isaac from Golden Sun being the main one that comes to mind, though Krystal from Star Fox would be nice to see as well. Midna from Twilight Princess would be up there for me too, but since she's an assist trophy, I can't honestly expect that to happen.

[Rosstin]

Those are some of my favorites too, Zevox. Midna especially, however unlikely.

It's interesting how Smash has had such deep crossover lately.

[Zevox]

Those are some of my favorites too, Zevox. Midna especially, however unlikely.

It's interesting how Smash has had such deep crossover lately.
Well, the game already has all of Nintendo's real superstars and quite a few second- and third-stringers, and they're starting to have to dig into relatively minor characters to keep adding from their own stable. Bringing in huge names from third parties is a good way to keep the hype going and get a lot of people to pay for the DLC - especially if they're unexpected, like Cloud was.

[danzibr]

Midna, now that'd be nice.

I'd like to see good ol' Kunio.

[Zevox]

Okay, screw Cloud - Bayonetta is in, baby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDnl1OGuIcE)! And aside from them not being able to drop an F-bomb in that last line, she looks exactly like she's supposed to, surprisingly enough. Including guns, despite Snake having been barred from using those in Brawl. Heck, she even has witch time - how that's not going to break the game I don't know, but screw it, it's amazing!

...so, yeah, I did indeed get a DLC character I'll be picking up. :smalltongue:

Edit: Wow, I didn't even hear about this one at first, but apparently we're also getting Corrin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMvgKqMWAlg), the main character of Fire Emblem: Fates. And just like Robin, you get both male and female versions. They actually look pretty cool, and nothing like the other sword-wielders of the game - I'll probably get them, too. Putting them in has got to be an advertising decision though, considering how many Fire Emblem characters we already have.

[danzibr]

Okay, screw Cloud - Bayonetta is in, baby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDnl1OGuIcE)! And aside from them not being able to drop an F-bomb in that last line, she looks exactly like she's supposed to, surprisingly enough. Including guns, despite Snake having been barred from using those in Brawl. Heck, she even has witch time - how that's not going to break the game I don't know, but screw it, it's amazing!

...so, yeah, I did indeed get a DLC character I'll be picking up. :smalltongue:

Edit: Wow, I didn't even hear about this one at first, but apparently we're also getting Corrin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMvgKqMWAlg), the main character of Fire Emblem: Fates. And just like Robin, you get both male and female versions. They actually look pretty cool, and nothing like the other sword-wielders of the game - I'll probably get them, too. Putting them in has got to be an advertising decision though, considering how many Fire Emblem characters we already have.
Awesome! Thanks for the info. I actually haven't played any Fire Emblem games (I want to, I want to), but Ike is my main and Corinn looks really good from the preview.

And Cloud's out! Yay!!!

[Zevox]

So, as I mentioned I did not pick up Cloud myself, but I did play the game some today, and fought a lot of him - literally everyone I played used him for at least the first couple of matches.

For the most part, he seems to be a straightforward sword user. The most notable things about him are that shockwave-projectile of his, which is a pain in the rear for certain characters (notably my main, King Dedede) and his Limit Break system. He has a move (a special, I assume) that lets him just stand there charging it, and he can cancel it with shield or dodge, so it's pretty safe for him to do so when not engaged in immediate combat, and once it's charged it powers up his next special or smash attack tremendously. I'm not sure which it is, but one seems to become basically Little Mac's KO punch when empowered - it has the same sound effect, gets the same zoom-in slow-down moment upon hit, launches at the same angle, and kills very easily (KOed King Dedede easily at 70% - and that's 70% after the hit; I'm not sure what I had before the hit). And the others are no slouches either - even his projectile can kill when empowered that way.

A notably weakness I saw is that his up special is actually not that great at vertical recovery. My opponents more than once died from failure to recover due to it just not reaching the ledge. It's not Little Mac levels of bad by any means, but it's noticeably worse than most, I'd say.

[Mando Knight]

I'm not sure which it is, but one seems to become basically Little Mac's KO punch when empowered - it has the same sound effect, gets the same zoom-in slow-down moment upon hit, launches at the same angle, and kills very easily (KOed King Dedede easily at 70% - and that's 70% after the hit; I'm not sure what I had before the hit).

You had 69%. According to the presentation, the insta-kill special (which replaces the Limit charge, his Down Special, when Limit Break is available) deals a whopping 1% damage... but inflicts ridiculous knockback.

[chainer1216]

Bayanetta!? Holy****. I put her down in the write-in months ago, but didn't actually think it'd happen.

[GanonBoar]

BAYONETTA! HOLY ****!

Just came here to say that.

(oh and also corrin but no one cares)

[danzibr]

So, as I mentioned I did not pick up Cloud myself, but I did play the game some today, and fought a lot of him - literally everyone I played used him for at least the first couple of matches.

For the most part, he seems to be a straightforward sword user. The most notable things about him are that shockwave-projectile of his, which is a pain in the rear for certain characters (notably my main, King Dedede) and his Limit Break system. He has a move (a special, I assume) that lets him just stand there charging it, and he can cancel it with shield or dodge, so it's pretty safe for him to do so when not engaged in immediate combat, and once it's charged it powers up his next special or smash attack tremendously. I'm not sure which it is, but one seems to become basically Little Mac's KO punch when empowered - it has the same sound effect, gets the same zoom-in slow-down moment upon hit, launches at the same angle, and kills very easily (KOed King Dedede easily at 70% - and that's 70% after the hit; I'm not sure what I had before the hit). And the others are no slouches either - even his projectile can kill when empowered that way.

A notably weakness I saw is that his up special is actually not that great at vertical recovery. My opponents more than once died from failure to recover due to it just not reaching the ledge. It's not Little Mac levels of bad by any means, but it's noticeably worse than most, I'd say.
Yup, pretty good summary. As an Ike main, I'd say he plays like a faster Ike but with less damaging moves, except hit limit breaks are really strong.

BAYONETTA! HOLY ****!

Just came here to say that.

(oh and also corrin but no one cares)
Comically, in an earlier comment I said nothing about Bayonetta but expressed interest in Corrin.

[Zevox]

So apparently this artwork (http://www.pidgi.net/wiki/images/7/7a/Bayonetta_illustration_-_Super_Smash_Bros._for_Nintendo_3DS_and_Wii_U.jpg) for Bayonetta was shown off during the Direct, and it is sick. Though it is a little ironic having it break down with heroes on the side of the angels and (mostly) villains on the side of the demons considering that the angels are the villains in Bayonetta. :smalltongue:

[ryuplaneswalker]

So apparently this artwork (http://www.pidgi.net/wiki/images/7/7a/Bayonetta_illustration_-_Super_Smash_Bros._for_Nintendo_3DS_and_Wii_U.jpg) for Bayonetta was shown off during the Direct, and it is sick. Though it is a little ironic having it break down with heroes on the side of the angels and (mostly) villains on the side of the demons considering that the angels are the villains in Bayonetta. :smalltongue:

Eh, Angels and Demons are equally as antagonistic in Bayonetta, it is sorta like Hellblazer in that aspect.

Edit : I will say very nice touch on the art..of having Shulk and ROB be at the same level. Quite Meta there.

[danzibr]

Wow. Yeah, that is beautiful.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

They're certainly not being coy about the attributes she's bringing to Smash Brothers. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

Eh, Angels and Demons are equally as antagonistic in Bayonetta, it is sorta like Hellblazer in that aspect.
Eh, in Bayonetta 2 kind of, since the villain there controlled both and there was the one demon she had to fight to free Jeanne. But even there Bayonetta herself fights by summoning them, and in the first one they only even appear when she summons them, and it's strictly the angels who are the antagonists.

At the end of the day, Umbra Witches get their power from demons, so by default they're not antagonistic towards Bayonetta. It was a mark that something was very wrong that they started attacking her in the second game.

[Dienekes]

Wow. Yeah, that is beautiful.

Eh, while I can admire the skill in the drawing. The "here's my butt" stance always looked silly and stupid to me.

[Zevox]

Eh, while I can admire the skill in the drawing. The "here's my butt" stance always looked silly and stupid to me.
Looking silly is part of the point. The entire style of the Bayonetta games is to be extremely over-the-top and cheesy, and part of that is her exaggerated sexuality and associated ridiculous movements and poses.

[ryuplaneswalker]

At the end of the day, Umbra Witches get their power from demons, so by default they're not antagonistic towards Bayonetta.

You do know that when an Umbra Witch dies, those demon's take her soul right and if they don't kill enough angels the demons will drag their soul to the Inferno, which happens no matter what when the witch dies, so they are about on the same level of "antagonistic" it is just much more sensible to fight a minor angel for it's halo than it would be to fight a Major Infernal Demon without your powers.

[Dienekes]

Looking silly is part of the point. The entire style of the Bayonetta games is to be extremely over-the-top and cheesy, and part of that is her exaggerated sexuality and associated ridiculous movements and poses.

Ahh, ok. Never played it, generally things that have a major selling point of flashing T&A tend not to attract my attention.

[Rakaydos]

Ahh, ok. Never played it, generally things that have a major selling point of flashing T&A tend not to attract my attention.

Bayonetta knows what she's doing. Psychological warfare.

[tonytong]

nice:smallsmile: