The Arcane Order

[Irrealist]

This is of course not a real homebrew but the Arcane Order known from Complete Arcane or Tome and Blood. For my next short campaign, I want the players to be able to use the affiliation rules from PHB2, and I want them to be affiliated with the Arcane Order. This is how I modeled it using the rules from PHB2:

The Arcane Order:

Type: College
Scale: 8

{table=head]Criterion|Affiliation Score Modifier

Character level|+1/2 PC's level

10 or more ranks in Knowledge(arcana)|+2

Can cast arcane spells 3rd level or higher|+2

Can cast arcane spells 5th level or higher|+4

Mage of the Arcane Order Prestige class|+1/2 class level

Has the cooperative spell feat|+2

Completes a mission for the Order|+2

Does not have ranks in Knowledge(arcana)|-4

Does not spend at least 1 week per half-year on campus|-10[/table]


NAME OF CLASS
{table=head]Affiliation Score|Benefits and Duties

3 or lower|Novice: Pay 200gp/month tuition

4-10|Associate: may use the Order's labs and libraries freely; must pay 750gp initiation fee

11-15|Collegian: +2 to Knowledge checks while in one of the college's libraries

16-20|Researcher: Ability to share spellbooks with one spellcaster of your level once a month; must contribute one original spell to the Order's spell archive

21-29|Scholar: Novices assist you with item crafting: 10% discount on experience cost when crafting magic items

30 or higher|Regent: to be determined[/table]

Executive Powers: Craft, Research, Trade


Any comments, ideas, criticism?

[deadfalcon]

I like it!

just a one thing, you mention the need to provide origional spells, letting players craft spells, in my experience, never ends well so you may wish to change that or post some way of preventing the players going off the wall.

[Irrealist]

I like the idea that if you want to get exchange spells, you have to provide something in return. Since the Order probably already has all but the most exotic spells in print, that is the only way I can think of right now. I think inventing new spells can work well if the players coordinate with the DM.

[Jack_Simth]

I like it!

just a one thing, you mention the need to provide origional spells, letting players craft spells, in my experience, never ends well so you may wish to change that or post some way of preventing the players going off the wall.

They have to be original spells - they don't have to be mechanically useful spells for their level to a party of adventurers.

A 4th level spell named "Markus' Magnficient Maintainer" with a 1,000 gp material component and a permanent duration that keeps a building clean and in good repair as though it were undergoing normal cleaning and maintenence (the place is swept, dusted, carpets cleaned, the roof has it's cieling tiles replaced after a normal storm, and so on; but if someone takes a battering ram and knocks down the door, that's not normal maintenence, and so isn't affected) is not going to break the game (at least, not most games). It's a useful spell to an entrenched mage, but isn't going to have enough game-mechanical use to break anything. Even if it caused all damaged nonmagical objects in the building to regenerate 1 HP per day if not fully destroyed, it's not going to hurt much of anything.

[deadfalcon]

They have to be original spells - they don't have to be mechanically useful spells for their level to a party of adventurers.

That is true, but in my experience players don't often do this, if the DM allows cutom spell they will mostlikly start ripping of spells from books and manga, which are either "cool" or seriously useful. hence there may be problems for the DM, especially if the new spell the player thought up, that you can't object to as t is quite reasonable, makes one of you're next encounters pointless. (this happened to me once when I allowed custom spells)

[Matthew]

I agree there are potential problems with that. you may want to limit the original Spells to 0 or 1st Level (after all, somebody who has never created a 0 Level Spell has never completed the basics of Original Spell Research...).

[Irrealist]

I don't have too much experience with this, but I don't understand how researched spells could be such a great problem. If you as a DM aren't comfortable with a spell, you needn't allow it.

[Matthew]

Absolutely, but the mantra of 3.x seems to be to relieve the burden of decsiion making from the DM. What I mean is when you codify something like this, some Player is bound to try and abuse it and find the loopholes (which I think was the concern). If you make it clear that it doesn't require 'mighty magics' to enter the Order then you reduce the potential for such thinking. It's only a suggestion, though, I am sure you know what works best for you.

[Jack_Simth]

That is true, but in my experience players don't often do this, if the DM allows cutom spell they will mostlikly start ripping of spells from books and manga, which are either "cool" or seriously useful. hence there may be problems for the DM, especially if the new spell the player thought up, that you can't object to as t is quite reasonable, makes one of you're next encounters pointless. (this happened to me once when I allowed custom spells)

So have it anyway. Make the player feel nice about having some forethought. If it's a reasonable spell, it's not too bad.

It's when players start trying to break the damage caps, or making save-or-lose spells a bit earlier/stronger than they should be, or making overly strong buff spells that there's problems.

[Irrealist]

I'd like to keep the Arcane Order as the topic of this thread, so i opened a new one on spell creation here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47774). I'd love to continue the debate there.

[Matthew]

Thinking about it, it kind of feels like they ought to spend more than one week on campus per half year. How about a scaling modifier that adjusts with the number of weeks spent on campus each year?