does taking a potion rectally increase it's absorption.

[daremetoidareyo]

You know...like alcohol does.

[AMFV]

If you're really concerned about that, you could powder it and take it through the nose (which as significantly more absorption), or inject it (even more than either the suppository or nasal spray methods).

Edit: It is worth noting that not passing through the Kidneys and filtering things can often cause drugs to have different effects or cause other unforeseen problems.

[Sith_Happens]

https://data.desustorage.org/4ch/mlp/image/1419/67/1419671318423.jpg

[Kane0]

You know, i'm surprised my group has not raised this question yet.

[AMFV]

You know, i'm surprised my group has not raised this question yet.

Wouldn't that be lowering themselves to the question, I doubt anybody could raise it.

[goto124]

I thought this was a spam thread at first...

I am amused :smallbiggrin:

[daremetoidareyo]

You know, i'm surprised my group has not raised this question yet.

Imagine you're DM and a player whose character comes from a thinly veiled aztec culture hits you with this question...

mechanically, what says you? +50% duration?

[Kid Jake]

No, because potions function like soft drinks; it's the EXTREME TASTE OF BOYSENBERRY that grants you the ability to lift a car or do a bitchin kickflip, nothing so mundane as magic.

[AMFV]

Imagine you're DM and a player whose character comes from a thinly veiled aztec culture hits you with this question...

mechanically, what says you? +50% duration?

Nope. The opposite. Faster absorption means that it gets into your system much faster, has a much more immediate (and often intense effect) but that means that you aren't slowly getting bits of it as it's processed by your stomach and liver and kidneys, you get it all at once.

To be fair there is no way to really model this with potions, because they don't have time to actually start working.

Also you can get a much more intense effect with less substance, so what could be a safe dose of something orally, can rapidly become dangerous rectally (as we see with college kids getting alcohol poisoning from beer, which is normally impossible), as you're bypassing a lot of the body's defenses.

[goto124]

Potions again don't make sense, since there's no danger to them either.

Maybe we should use a non-DnD system. What other game has potions or more realistic equivalents?

[Kid Jake]

Potions again don't make sense, since there's no danger to them either.

Maybe we should use a non-DnD system. What other game has potions or more realistic equivalents?

You mean like meth?

[daremetoidareyo]

Nope. The opposite. Faster absorption means that it gets into your system much faster, has a much more immediate (and often intense effect) but that means that you aren't slowly getting bits of it as it's processed by your stomach and liver and kidneys, you get it all at once.

To be fair there is no way to really model this with potions, because they don't have time to actually start working.

Also you can get a much more intense effect with less substance, so what could be a safe dose of something orally, can rapidly become dangerous rectally (as we see with college kids getting alcohol poisoning from beer, which is normally impossible), as you're bypassing a lot of the body's defenses.

You're mind is on fire. So for DnD it would be a shorter duration with a commensurate caster level increase?

Anal potion tampons would what then? Allow you to stretch a potion out to 3 or 4 uses. You just can't use them in combat... At least, not without a heal check and a full round auto-de-pantsing action?

[AMFV]

You're mind is on fire. So for DnD it would be a shorter duration with a commensurate caster level increase?

Anal potion tampons would what then? Allow you to stretch a potion out to 3 or 4 uses. You just can't use them in combat... At least, not without a heal check and a full round auto-de-pantsing action?

Well to be honest, I would probably have it work completely differently. Potions aren't meant to be taken that way. In (3.5) I'd probably have it give you bonus hit points (like the positive energy plane), with a chance of death (like the positive energy plane). Which replicates more the effect of switching from oral to suppository. Increased and more dangerous effects.

[Mr Beer]

Can't imagine why this hasn't come up in any of my games but if a player wanted to try it and could explain the required equipment, I would run with it. I would go with enhanced effect + reduced duration + chance of something going wrong, perhaps horribly so. Could be awesome actually.

[daremetoidareyo]

Well to be honest, I would probably have it work completely differently. Potions aren't meant to be taken that way. In (3.5) I'd probably have it give you bonus hit points (like the positive energy plane), with a chance of death (like the positive energy plane). Which replicates more the effect of switching from oral to suppository. Increased and more dangerous effects.


Can't imagine why this hasn't come up in any of my games but if a player wanted to try it and could explain the required equipment, I would run with it. I would go with enhanced effect + reduced duration + chance of something going wrong, perhaps horribly so. Could be awesome actually.

So...what potions would be best?

Obviously philtre of love...but what else?

[goto124]

I imagine a philter of love would be most useless for this, actually. If you already have that kind of access you don't need the potion.

[AMFV]

So...what potions would be best?

Obviously philtre of love...but what else?

Well it depends, as far as things that we're modelling, healing or inflicting potions are easiest. We already know what overdosing on healing looks like, we don't know what overdosing on anything else really does (although inflict obviously kills you). We also don't have good models for the more drastic and intense effects. You'd essentially have to create completely modified stronger effects for something done this way.

I don't think the Philter of Love would have that much of a difference, it doesn't need to be absorbed quickly. There's a reason that not all medication is given through injection, although side-effects factor into that quite a bit. I imagine it would just take effect more quickly, and could potentially have dangerous side effects, but since magic potions are virtually instantaneous, you're adding a wrinkle of side effects for no discernible reason.

Edit

I imagine a philter of love would be most useless for this, actually. If you already have that kind of access you don't need the potion.


This...

Although an evil proctologist maybe might have some use for it.

[Kane0]

I'd like to see the advanced effects of potions of swim, climb, jump, etc administered in this way.

Or glibness. Talking out your ass, heh.

[Gamgee]

I thought this was a spam thread at first...

I am amused :smallbiggrin:

Me too. I want to see where this is going.

[Erk]

Many biochemicals have no absorption or an altered first pass effect if they don't go through the stomach. The stomach and duodenum contain varied acidity and a complex chemical milieu. If we assume that potions are chemistry rather than straight magic, there's no telling what PR (per rectal) administration would do.

Some potions would function exactly the same, like Tylenol pr does.
Some wouldn't function at all, like a proton pump inhibitor pr.
Some could have pretty wild effects.

I suggest that you make a random table and roll each time players do this with a new potion. Once decided, the effects you rolled are consistent each time. The most common effect should still be "No change from usual", followed by "no effect / diminished effect" though.

Cheers,
Your friendly neighbourhood biochemist.

[nedz]

I just want to drop a suppository of Tongues in a game now.:smallbiggrin:

[Red Fel]

http://www.memegasms.com/media/created/hy0xrg.jpg

All seriousness, though, I would say, no, taking a potion rectally does not increase its absorption. Even if it did, increasing its absorption would not in any way alter its effects. Here's why.

In your standard fantasy RPG setting, a potion is basically a spell in liquid form. It's drinkable (or, if you like MUDs, quaffable) magic. And magic does not consider such silly concepts as "biology" or "realism". That's why, for example, if you cast Curse Water on a flask of water, it somehow instantly turns the whole flask evil, rather than spreading through it from the point of touch and expanding outwards.

Potions work the same way. They function once consumed. Once consumed, they perform their function. And that function is as-written, without deviation. Drink potion, get power-up, done. Taken rectally, you still get power-up; once the potion is inside you, its power is tapped, and it's just a funky liquid rolling about in your guts.

It can be argued that, since you're not ingesting it the normal way, you might receive no benefit whatsoever. Potions function when swallowed. Creatures without mouths - can they even consume potions? It has to be explicitly stated in some games that a creature who does not require food and drink (and logically would have no digestive tract) may nonetheless benefit from potions. This suggests that it's the act of drinking the potion, as opposed to digesting it, that triggers its effect.

[The Glyphstone]

Indeed. Otherwise Vaarsuvius would not have to block out all thoughts concerning pharmaceutical dosage specifications (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html) - that tiny potion of Bull's Strength has exactly the same effects and duration on a Tyrannosaurus Rex as it does a halfling. So the method of administering said potion is even less likely to influence the effects.

[nedz]

http://www.memegasms.com/media/created/hy0xrg.jpg

All seriousness, though, I would say, no, taking a potion rectally does not increase its absorption. Even if it did, increasing its absorption would not in any way alter its effects. Here's why.

In your standard fantasy RPG setting, a potion is basically a spell in liquid form. It's drinkable (or, if you like MUDs, quaffable) magic. And magic does not consider such silly concepts as "biology" or "realism". That's why, for example, if you cast Curse Water on a flask of water, it somehow instantly turns the whole flask evil, rather than spreading through it from the point of touch and expanding outwards.

Potions work the same way. They function once consumed. Once consumed, they perform their function. And that function is as-written, without deviation. Drink potion, get power-up, done. Taken rectally, you still get power-up; once the potion is inside you, its power is tapped, and it's just a funky liquid rolling about in your guts.

It can be argued that, since you're not ingesting it the normal way, you might receive no benefit whatsoever. Potions function when swallowed. Creatures without mouths - can they even consume potions? It has to be explicitly stated in some games that a creature who does not require food and drink (and logically would have no digestive tract) may nonetheless benefit from potions. This suggests that it's the act of drinking the potion, as opposed to digesting it, that triggers its effect.

That's true in 3.5, in earlier editions potions could be mixed - with interesting results. Taking one rectally would allow you to take two potions without the risks associated with such mixing - assuming the other were taken orally - though the effects would be undefined for the rear potion.

[daremetoidareyo]

The fire breathing potion would be... an interesting spectacle.

[The Glyphstone]

On the other hand, would this even be possible to attempt? I'm thinking a typical group with the table-maturity atmosphere to ask if they get bonuses by shoving potions up their butts will also be doubled over snickering at the word 'butts' too hard to get any gaming done.

[Âmesang]

No, because potions function like soft drinks; it's the EXTREME TASTE OF BOYSENBERRY that grants you the ability to lift a car or do a bitchin kickflip, nothing so mundane as magic.
If I weren't already playing as an arcanist I would totally work towards developing a spell called cure x-treme!™ wounds.


Potions again don't make sense, since there's no danger to them either.

That's true in 3.5, in earlier editions potions could be mixed - with interesting results. Taking one rectally would allow you to take two potions without the risks associated with such mixing - assuming the other were taken orally - though the effects would be undefined for the rear potion.
That's why I'm happy Wizards put out this little article back in the day: "I Wouldn't Drink That If I Were You…" (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b)

[braveheart]

I don't think that the liver filters out magic, and since magical poisons act instantly I'd assume the same abortion rate, so If I had a player try it I'd give him the usual effects of the potion, with no side effects

[Joe the Rat]

You know, i'm surprised my group has not raised this question yet.


Although an evil proctologist maybe might have some use for it.

It's the kind of thing the Cleric player would think of. Please don't give the Cleric ideas...

Our resident Evil Gnome Death Cleric (5e) has a strong medical theme going (lots of alchemy, herbalism and Medicine). He's already developed separate formulae for oral and injectable healing potions. I don't think the party would be comfortable with giving him another opening for treatment. The squirrel-based one is bad enough.

I have an anti-magic weed that is absolutely effective ingested, but has a weaker, short-lived effect if you bypass the stomach (it relies of digestive enzymes to fully activate). That would be a no - but I specifically made it that way.

[daremetoidareyo]

Maybe by inverting the method of potion consumption you get the exact opposite effect.

"Some idiot made a bunch of potions of cause light wounds! Must have been his amanuensis spell near the end of the duration on the requisition form or something..."

"Don't worry, boss, I know a workaround. It just won't be...combat appropriate"

[JFahy]

So...what potions would be best?

Obviously philtre of love...but what else?

Equally obviously, Oil of Slipperiness.

[nedz]

Equally obviously, Oil of Slipperiness.

But not to be confused with Universal Solvent, or Sovereign Glue.

[Red Fel]

Sovereign Glue.

Suddenly, certain Paladin class features (read: a stick) are explained.

[goto124]

IHe's already developed separate formulae for oral and injectable healing potions. I don't think the party would be comfortable with giving him another opening for treatment.

:smallbiggrin:

[Kane0]

Maybe by inverting the method of potion consumption you get the exact opposite effect.

"Some idiot made a bunch of potions of cause light wounds! Must have been his amanuensis spell near the end of the duration on the requisition form or something..."

"Don't worry, boss, I know a workaround. It just won't be...combat appropriate"

That's the kind of wacky RPG logic I can get behind!