I can't see Roy staying dead for long.

[Hiruma]

Wow, there's a thread that doesn't involve Miko!

Roy can't stay dead too long because well, currently to me it seems like Rich is finding it...hard, to do jokes on the OOTS now, mostly because the straight man is gone and the dynamic's not as good as before. Also, it looks like Rich timed Roy's death with all the other matters so that there's less focus on the OOTS, which is what makes me think he finds it more difficult to do jokes without Roy.

[plainsfox]

I'll bet that there is a slew of afterlife jokes that Rich wants to spring on us to lighten the mood after this arc.

[Avor]

I can't see Roy staying dead for long.

Now that you said that, it's not going to happen.

There, he's dead forever now!

[Nightmarenny]

Wow, there's a thread that doesn't involve Miko!

Roy can't stay dead too long because well, currently to me it seems like Rich is finding it...hard, to do jokes on the OOTS now, mostly because the straight man is gone and the dynamic's not as good as before. Also, it looks like Rich timed Roy's death with all the other matters so that there's less focus on the OOTS, which is what makes me think he finds it more difficult to do jokes without Roy.
1.And you had to ruin it by mentioning her. Its not clever to invite her into every thread.
2.The main character come back quickly? Madness
3.Have you considered that maybe what Miko and Xykon are doing is more important?:smallbiggrin:

[Breaon]

I'm hoping we see some of the behind the scenes dialogue between now-dead :roy: and his father, even if it's just half a strip worth.

Who knows, maybe he becomes the spiritual advisor, and his sister decides to join for a while...

[The Extinguisher]

Killing of the main character then bringing him back quickly? That's just bad story telling.

Remember, this is a story formost, comic secondmost, and a world based on D&D lastmost.

So just because someone dies, doesn't mean they're coming back right away.

[BobTheDog]

So just because someone dies, doesn't mean they're coming back right away.

Were it not for the fact that Durkon specifically states that he's doing it tomorrow, if the battle is won, and the battle suddenly stopped going downhill (or so it would seem), it might actually be real quick.

[The Extinguisher]

You seem to forget things often go completly wrong once you mention you are going to do something later, often to the point of not being able to do that. It's a form of foreshadowing. Explicitly mentioning that something is going to happen means that it's probably not going to happen soon.

It's basic dramatic knowledge.

[Zoolooman]

It's basic dramatic knowledge.

No it isn't.

Characters follow through on their stated intentions as often as they don't. If every minor plan met with a twist or a painful delay, the story would sweep back around from interesting and dynamic to predictable and tedious.

[Charles Phipps]

With all due respect, I point to you about the Elan arc where he goes off to do his own thing. I don't see any loss of humor there and it's indeed my favorite arc in the entire comic. Also, we can do Haley's adventure next. Perhaps Durkon.

Hinjo too.

Overall, I believe that Roy doesn't need to come back. I'd be overjoyed if he did but he's gone for good I think, at least in a living context.

[Zoolooman]

Overall, I believe that Roy doesn't need to come back. I'd be overjoyed if he did but he's gone for good I think, at least in a living context.

That's a silly position to take. This isn't an epic tragic drama where death has to weigh heavily on our hearts for the next twenty chapters. It's a mostly comedic comic with a good plotline, and it won't hurt that format or the story to bring Roy back as soon as possible.

He is, after all, a member of the Order of the Stick, and he plays a large part in their humor and appeal. :]

[Nightmarenny]

No it isn't.

Characters follow through on their stated intentions as often as they don't. If every minor plan met with a twist or a painful delay, the story would sweep back around from interesting and dynamic to predictable and tedious.

Whats that literary saying? "The writer only has the characters explain their plan in advance when its doomed to fail. that way they can see where it goes wrong."

That is basic literary law.

[Zoolooman]

Whats that literary saying? "The writer only has the characters explain their plan in advance when its doomed to fail. that way they can see where it goes wrong."

That is basic literary law.

But that's not true at all. Flip through a few of your favorite novels. Or look through this webcomic. Exposition is commonly slipped into dialogue in order to clarify ambiguous intentions and lay out very short term plans. Rich is especially "bad" about abusing this technique--some blocks of his dialogue exist solely to communicate a character's intentions just before or after they act. In many cases, those characters succeed or fail without any major plot twists or complications. There simply wouldn't be any interest in drawing out a simple plot point for more than a few panels.

For example, look at Roy. After he died, people wondered, "Will the OOTS attempt to resurrect him?" Dozens of people asked that exact question. On the next page, that question was answered. Elan and Durkon openly expressed their intention to resurrect him. And it's not necessary for anything else to occur. Since Roy is an important character, there is no reason to assume that they will fail to resurrect him.

Furthermore, although a conflict could arise when the OOTS attempts to scrounge up the money to resurrect Roy, such a conflict might impede the pacing of larger, more important conflicts. In that case, it'd be best to create a simple conflict, to resolve that conflict in a handful of pages, and to bring Roy back into the story very quickly. It'd be silly to require that Roy remain dead, simply because the characters expressed the desire to revive him.

In general, the entire concept of a literary law is incredibly silly and a touch obnoxious, especially when counterexamples to the "law" are so common that you often don't recognize them.

[malakim2099]

You know, after reading THIS strip (463), I can't see Roy staying dead for long... I mean, that's not exactly a master plan to be wandering cheese sellers. Of course, Hinjo did repel the initial wave of hobgoblins with coconut oil, but it's still derivative.

Sheesh, Haley, don't think with your heart there girl! Even though Elan has you in a deep smit, you should know better. :smallconfused:

We need Roy back.

[The Extinguisher]

Think of it this way, you're reading a novel. Halfway through, *gasp* the main character is killed. Then, the very next chapter, his is ressurected through whatever magic is available.

Seems like a waste, and a bad use of plot, if you ask me.

Roy's gonna be dead for a while. I'm not saying he won't come back, but that bringing him back now is just as bad as having Miko fall, then attoning her a dozen comics after.

[Demented]

...Yeah, their plan was bad. But was it worse than Belkar's?


While we need Roy, being dead might give him more respect for the living. It'd be nice to see him humbled. On the other hand, everyone would probably be going bonkers if Roy lost his last character flaw.

[Nightmarenny]

But that's not true at all. Flip through a few of your favorite novels. Or look through this webcomic. Exposition is commonly slipped into dialogue in order to clarify ambiguous intentions and lay out very short term plans. Rich is especially "bad" about abusing this technique--some blocks of his dialogue exist solely to communicate a character's intentions just before or after they act. In many cases, those characters succeed or fail without any major plot twists or complications. There simply wouldn't be any interest in drawing out a simple plot point for more than a few panels.

For example, look at Roy. After he died, people wondered, "Will the OOTS attempt to resurrect him?" Dozens of people asked that exact question. On the next page, that question was answered. Elan and Durkon openly expressed their intention to resurrect him. And it's not necessary for anything else to occur. Since Roy is an important character, there is no reason to assume that they will fail to resurrect him.

Furthermore, although a conflict could arise when the OOTS attempts to scrounge up the money to resurrect Roy, such a conflict might impede the pacing of larger, more important conflicts. In that case, it'd be best to create a simple conflict, to resolve that conflict in a handful of pages, and to bring Roy back into the story very quickly. It'd be silly to require that Roy remain dead, simply because the characters expressed the desire to revive him.

In general, the entire concept of a literary law is incredibly silly and a touch obnoxious, especially when counterexamples to the "law" are so common that you often don't recognize them.
It is literary law its just not really applicable. That wasn't a plan but an intention. You can bet that it that comic had instead featured them hatching a long complicated plan(not the intention to) everything would go ary very fast.

[Bilgore]

I can see it now:
:belkar: Hey! Let go of him!
:mitd: Why should I do that?
:belkar: Because that ring is mine!
:mitd: Oh, I didn't want that anyway. By the way, do you happen to have any nutmeg?

[Zhrec]

Roy had been killed for way too long time, and if he will not be brought back it would mean that he would never come back, which is very disappointing. And bringing new characters may be some how interesting, but if it overdone comic would end up being some sort of Brazilian serial, were son of the son of the son of the main character kills the bad guy son of the son of the Xykon and marring on the RC daughter of the .... well you got my meaning

[The Extinguisher]

Roy has been dead for exactly twenty strips. That is not alot.

Considering most subplots took 100+ strips to resolve, he's been dead for a short time.

[MadHatter]

Then again, this comic is based off a roleplaying game where it is ridiculously easy to bring back a dead character in comparison to other games, so it would seem appropriate for staying in touch with that part of the COMIC, as that is what this is, too have him come back in a undramatic fashion with the help of a a) Raise Dead spell b) Ressurection spell or c) True Ressurection spell without too much fuss.

If you remember the strip after Shojo was killed, there was a cleric there who tried to Ressurect Shojo right after his death, which showed how easily it can be done. The only reason it didn't work was because Shojo's soul wasn't willing to return. Roy however has unfinished business and has every reason to want to be ressurected.

'Nuff said.

[BlaineTog]

I think it's a good bet that Roy will be back.

[Ampersand]

On the other hand, everyone would probably be going bonkers if Roy lost his last character flaw.

I certainty wouldn't know what to do. I need some character flaw to blow completely out of proportion, after all...


Then again, this comic is based off a roleplaying game where it is ridiculously easy to bring back a dead character in comparison to other games...

Which could also be an argument for making bringing Roy back exceedingly difficult and needlessly complicated. :smallamused:

[Ancalagon]

Wow, there's a thread that doesn't involve Miko!

Roy can't stay dead too long because well, currently to me it seems like Rich is finding it...hard, to do jokes on the OOTS now, mostly because the straight man is gone and the dynamic's not as good as before.
Your personal optinion. Someone may disagree. I do. From my point of view the story is great at the moment and has lots of dynamics.


Also, it looks like Rich timed Roy's death with all the other matters so that there's less focus on the OOTS, which is what makes me think he finds it more difficult to do jokes without Roy.
There has not been any focus on the OotS at all since there is the focus on the battle. If you want to create the feeling of a big battle, I think it is a good move to focus on the battle and all sorts of groups that are involved with it instead of focus on some small group - it would feel like you focus on a small group, not on some chaotic, big battle with some 5 or more groups involved that all do stuff.
Apart from that I liked many of the jokes about the OotS while Roy is gone (Belkar and his head, the illusions in the tower, "What did I tell you about passing notes in my battle" etc etc).

[factotum]

I disagree with the statement that bringing Roy back will mean he comes back too quickly. In terms of time, maybe, but in terms of strips, not really--it's already been 20 strips since he died, and there's a deal of clean-up to do yet before there's any chance of his resurrection happening. (Heck, maybe his resurrection will happen in strip 500 to mark the occasion of OotS' half-millennium).

[delguidance]

I could see a whole sub story of Roy in the afterlife. It would be an interesting chance to explore some of the extra dimensional humor possible in D&D.

[Ancalagon]

When we learned something from this strip in 463 comics it is the fact that the story also turns into directions that were hard to foresee. Thus, Roy may be dead for a while, he may get resurrected soon, he may have an intermission as ghost (with a talk to daddy/miko or not)... all that is possible and we do not know until it happens.

[Porthos]

Roy might not be dead long?? I have just three words for you:

Haley Aphasia Arc. :smalltongue: :smalltongue: :smalltongue:

That arc took almost 150 strips to resolve itself. 150 strips of obfuscated material that had quite a few people tearing their hairs out of their head (not me, I hasten to add - I found it quite amusing). If Rich wants to make The Bring Roy Back To Life (And How the OotS Deal With His Absence) Arc, then he will have plenty of material to mine.

Besides, when he feels the need, he can always cut away to The Afterlife to get his Roy fix. :smallwink:

So Roy can come back next strip, or he can come back in a 100 strips. I think the only real certainty (thanks to comments that Rich made in No Cure of the Paladin Blues) is that Roy will appear again, either alive or in the afterlife. :smallsmile:

[Alex Warlorn]

It is possible that Roy's player has taken up temporary control of our new lord of Azure City, thus Roy's death doesn't need to slow down the game as much a it could. Let's hope redcloak doesn't find his cropse and make his body an undead puppet.

[Adoniis]

Killing of the main character then bringing him back quickly? That's just bad story telling.


Wrong. That statement is so far from true. Killing a main character with such a huge fan base for too long would be 'bad story telling', so to speak. That line may work in a novel, but this is a web comic. Things almost have to go fast else the fan base would get bored and move on. I know of a few web comics this has happened too. Top that with what I said earlier, Roy is FAR to popular to keep dead long.

[Charles Phipps]

It's like Black Belt. Roy is dead and despite being a world with Raise Dead, he's going to be the case where he's not coming back. It'll make the story more dramatic that way.

They'll just be some reason why he can't be brought back.

[Fury1671]

It's like Black Belt. Roy is dead and despite being a world with Raise Dead, he's going to be the case where he's not coming back. It'll make the story more dramatic that way.

They'll just be some reason why he can't be brought back.

And?

Red Vs Blue killed a main character in the first few episodes and he's STILL around. Just as a ghost who eats, gets sick, and is fat. All while posessing a ROBOT body.

Roy will be back. This isn't a drama. Plus, Elan's supposed to have a happy ending. A Roy-less ending isn't happy for Elan. Either a ghost or back in his old body, Roy will be back.

[Ancalagon]

An ending with Haley is a happy ending for Elan... even when Roy is not around. I'm convinced Roy will be back, but not for the mentioned reason. :)

[the_tick_rules]

they'll resurrect him.

[Lorde]

Roy staying dead, or going to train for 2 years on distant land have little diference to me. Sure, I want to see he alive but he dead opens ways to interesting plots.

I want to see Haley trying to manage the gang for example.

[Ancalagon]

I want to see Roy talking to his father before he resurrects. Or with Miko (if she died). Or just all the hassle to get him back... lots of interesting stuff that can happen before he comes back...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Wrong. That statement is so far from true. Killing a main character with such a huge fan base for too long would be 'bad story telling', so to speak. That line may work in a novel, but this is a web comic. Things almost have to go fast else the fan base would get bored and move on. I know of a few web comics this has happened too. Top that with what I said earlier, Roy is FAR to popular to keep dead long.

Keeping someone alive just because of the fan base is weak authorship.

[The Extinguisher]

Adoniis, if Rich kills Roy, then brings him back without anything happening because of it, other then a song being sung, what was the point? None.

Roy is dead for a reason. It's very safe to say that he will not be back until that reason is acomplished. And considering there are at least 4 more books left (IIRC) he's not going to be back fifty strips after he's dead.

[Zoolooman]

Keeping someone alive just because of the fan base is weak authorship.

Keeping a character dead in order to fulfill some lame dramatic trope when we're all dying to hop back onto the original plot thread is weak authorship. Yes, Roy died. That's fine. But it's not very interesting to many people. Do you want to see Girard's Gate? The sooner that Roy returns, the sooner I think that we'll begin that arc of the story.

[The Extinguisher]

Maybe Roy being dead is part of the original plot thread?

Azure City's gate is gone. Therefore, who knows what direction the plot will take.

[Charles Phipps]

Keeping a character dead in order to fulfill some lame dramatic trope when we're all dying to hop back onto the original plot thread is weak authorship.

What original plot thread? Fighting Xykon goes on with or without Roy. Hell, now, we have the rest of the Order of the Stick fighting to avenge Roy rather than it just being his own personal quest.

[Emperor Ing]

Damn, when will this end? plz stop this! ROY IS DEAD!!! get over it!:smallmad:

[TheNovak]

Dude, it's D&D. He'll be back within, say, the next twenty strips. Hell, make it ten. At the very least, the issue of his buzzard buffet-ing-ness will be addressed.

Besides, the Order simply can't function without the guy. I mean, Haley came up with a gouda plan and all, but she still couldn't get the others moving.

[Charles Phipps]

Besides, the Order simply can't function without the guy. I mean, Haley came up with a gouda plan and all, but she still couldn't get the others moving.

Elan functioned just fine without Roy on his own solo quest. I don't think there's any problem with Haley developing into the leader (quote, unquote) that Roy was. Certainly, Hinjo could take the role in his place too.

I look forward to a bit of Roylessness if it gets us a Haley solo-tale too. Or a Durkon or Belkar.

[Admiral_Kelly]

Besides, the Order simply can't function without the guy. I mean, Haley came up with a gouda plan and all, but she still couldn't get the others moving.Challenges for the charachter lead to charachter development.

Nothing in story-land is impossible; just some things are really hard to do.

[Demented]

Xykon would be well into controlling Girard's Gate before Haley becomes a competent leader.
Not to mention, the first time she seriously screws up, it's aphasialloveragain! Well, probably not. But she's a Chaotic Good Rogue. Tactical adviser might work, but she's not your typical leader material. We need someone who can take sanity damage and keep on ticking. Not to mention, their only melee forces now are Belkar and Durkon: Despite his armor and melee proficiency, Durkon doesn't seem to have the stuff to duke it out heavily. And Belkar, well, do you really want him to be your sole line of defense?

Among other things, Haley also gives consideration to Elan's plans. You know that's not going to end well with time. (You may say he got along well on his own, but remember the events as they occurred... his plan B was a Giant Wooden Alpaca filled with potato salad.)

Hinjo would have his hands full with three chaotic characters and one true neutral of questionable morals. Sure, he provides a neat melee shield and a reasonable tactical mind, but he also doesn't work at all with Belkar and may have some compatibilty issues with Elan. Not to mention, he's got duties with the Azure City citizenry.

O'chul has similar problems, though he'd at least get along with the chaotic characters. He survived Shojo, after all.

Now, if we can get those two nameless AC guards to pick up some class levels (cohorts, anyone?), they'd probably replace Roy in a jiffy. Plus, when it all goes to hell, they can be used as cannon fodder while the OOTS narrowly escape. It would only work once, but it's something.

[Shatteredtower]

I can see it now:
:belkar: Hey! Let go of him!
:mitd: Why should I do that?
:belkar: Because that ring is mine!
:mitd: Oh, I didn't want that anyway. By the way, do you happen to have any nutmeg?So what you're saying is that Roy should have followed Aragorn's lead when it comes to halflings and rings? :smallwink: