The Sandman (Vertigo)

[Stagger Lee]

I started reading the trade paperbacks a little over six months ago, and was immediately hooked. I own Preludes and Nocturnes through The Wake, and I've read Endless Nights. My room is full of Sandman posters. Long story short, I'm a total fanboy. Any other fans of Gaiman's masterpiece in the playground?

[Gavin Sage]

It's possible to not love Sandman? Definitely worth a place on any list of the best comic ever. I'd heard about it for awhile and when I finally broke down and started reading it I found I couldn't stop.

The Endless are the greatest.

[Dhavaer]

Sandman is very much awesome, as is the Morningstar's spin-off comic.

[JabberwockySupafly]

I'm a huge fan of Sandman, and everything else Neil has done thus far, but I would have to say it's far from his "magnum opus". Check out American Gods (novel) or his recent adaptation of Jack Kirby's Eternals to see Neil really shine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not panning Sandman at all, I own every single Sandman book including Endless Nights, The Dream Hunters (Amano FTW!) and both Death books and I plan on picking up the leather-bound Absolute Sandman Volume 1 very soon, I just believe that Sandman is not his best work. It's still some of the best writing done by a modern author to date though, no bones about that.


Cheers
JS

[Gavin Sage]

I've yet to read American Gods (though will pick up I think) but I do not think Eternals is anywhere close to Sandman as yet. It build a good platform and restarts a cool part of Marvel, but really has no good conclusion to it. Eternals feels like the first part of a longer series. Where for comparasion most of the Sandman volumes can be read on their own.

[Invisible Queen]

Sandman is easily one of the five greatest accomplishments in the history of comics. It, and Gaiman's work in general, have gone a long way to make comics a more accepted story medium.

And it's fun because it's a story about stories. I think Gaiman is every aspiring writer's favourite writer, his work almost constantly dealing with the craft itself.

(Notice how few people even mention the artwork of Sandman, even as an afterthought.)

Other things to watch out for is Smoke and Mirrors, Neverwhere, Mirrormask and Stardust. I think Stardust is my absolute favourite of Gaiman's. The ending especially, it breaks my heart, every time.

Fun story: I met the man at a book signing in Stockholm once, though I was too tongue-tied and he too tired for it to be very memorable. I gave him a tiny green dog plushie for his cats to play with, he signed my books and that was that.

[Dhavaer]

(Notice how few people even mention the artwork of Sandman, even as an afterthought.)

Do people normally mention comic art? I know I don't, unless it's just so horrible I never got the chance to notice anything else.

[Gavin Sage]

People talk about comic art good or bad, but its tied to artists. Michael Turner, Alex Ross, Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld (shudder everyone), these names can get a lot of discussion going for good or ill, especially ill in Liefeld's case.

Sandman has lots of high quality art but an ever changing roster of artists. Some of them can be fairly far from the the other. Endless Nights reflects this very distinctly though it is separate from the main series.

[....]

I've always wished Gaiman would get together with Pratchett and have a Death & Death comic involving Death from Sandman and the Death that TALKS LIKE THIS.

That would be awesome.

[Glaivemaster]

I've always wished Gaiman would get together with Pratchett and have a Death & Death comic involving Death from Sandman and the Death that TALKS LIKE THIS.

That would be awesome.

They did do a joint work Good Omens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens) It's very good, and I suggest that anybody who likes either author read it

Also, yes, Sandman is brilliant, and so is a lot of Gaiman's work. I've yet to discover anyone who doesn't like him

[JabberwockySupafly]

There originally was going to be a sequel to Good Omens, and there were several ideas for the name of the book (668, The Neighbor of the Beast was my personal favourite). Too bad it never hit the ground, as well as a Good Omens movie, which was originally going to be directed by Terry Gilliam, but that one went kapoot as well when I asked Pratchett at a signing and he explained due to Gilliam leaving the company with the filming rights, it is now caught, most likely forever, in limbo. Also, Stardust, is being made into a movie right now (linkage (http://www.stardustmovie.com/site.htm)) and should be in theatres August 10! (September in Australia, if memory serves, stupid censors slowing everything down for me...) :D

[....]

Not to call down the thunder or anything but...

I didn't think American Gods was all that great. Not bad, but Sandman and Coraline were better.

[Finn Solomon]

I've always wished Gaiman would get together with Pratchett and have a Death & Death comic involving Death from Sandman and the Death that TALKS LIKE THIS.

That would be awesome.

That would be beyond awesome. I've noticed they've described both of their Deaths using the exact same words though.

"I'll be the last one left, I'll turn out all the lights, put all the chairs on the tables and lock the door behind me when I leave."

For Neil it was in that comic with Death and the Element Girl, Terry's was in the Discworld companion, or maybe another novel, I can't recall exactly.

[....]

That would be beyond awesome. I've noticed they've described both of their Deaths using the exact same words though.

"I'll be the last one left, I'll turn out all the lights, put all the chairs on the tables and lock the door behind me when I leave."

For Neil it was in that comic with Death and the Element Girl, Terry's was in the Discworld companion, or maybe another novel, I can't recall exactly.

Neil stole that line from Pratchett. Pratchett's Death said it in either Mort or Reaper Man.

Its okay, though, because Neil and Pratchett are friends.

You will notice differences in the two Deaths, though. Girl Death is a lot more caring and human, while Discworld Death struggles with imitating human emotions and ultimatly dosn't get why people act the way they do.

Its got something to do with glands.

[Koji]

You will notice differences in the two Deaths, though. Girl Death is a lot more caring and human, while Discworld Death struggles with imitating human emotions and ultimatly dosn't get why people act the way they do.

Sounds more like Dream. Maybe it's more natural to both writers to create a sympathetic female embodiment of concepts like this, rather than male.

[Selrahc]

Sounds more like Dream. Maybe it's more natural to both writers to create a sympathetic female embodiment of concepts like this, rather than male.

Not really... Destruction is pretty much as good at being understanding as Death in Gaiman. So its not really a male female thing. Just a quirk of Dream(And most of the endless really)

[Hushdawg]

I absolutely adore The Sandman. I had been collecting the book since issue #1 and it wasn't until I was in a bind financially that I sold issue #1 all the way to "The Kindly Ones" storyline and later have re-purchased the trade paperbacks.

I'm actually getting ready to put up the entire run from the beginning of "The Kindly Ones" through issue #75 (final issue) on Ebay and I have no idea what price to list it at.

I don't really want to part with them, I just need the cash more than I need the issues. Of course, eventually I'll have to buy the TPBs for these too. :P

Last fall I was tickled pink when my local comic shop had a drawing for the newest statue of Morpheus and I won! :D He's got a nice prominant display in my apartment. :)

For my 29th birthday, a close friend of mine re-created the Gallery of sigils concept as a gift, it was really brilliantly done.

[Lobsopdoy]

You will notice differences in the two Deaths, though. Girl Death is a lot more caring and human, while Discworld Death struggles with imitating human emotions and ultimatly dosn't get why people act the way they do.

Its got something to do with glands.

That's part of what makes Discworld Death so endearing though. Also, you might notice that while Girld Death is a lot friendlier and better at interacting with people, Discworld Death is the one who often goes out of his way to actually save...you know...the world, universe, what have you. He's more heroic then Girl Death.

ingrates :P

And yes, Sandman is pretty much my favourite comic series

[Finn Solomon]

You will notice differences in the two Deaths, though. Girl Death is a lot more caring and human, while Discworld Death struggles with imitating human emotions and ultimatly dosn't get why people act the way they do.

Its got something to do with glands.

Girl Death does get to experience life as a mortal every century and that's why she's better at empathising with humanity than Discworld Death, I would imagine.

[Gavin Sage]

For lack of a better place to post. I just happened to finish American Gods and was very unsatisfied. For all its gods it has no magic, and in the end felt rather dull. Gaiman had already more or less played with the subject matter in Sandman, and I find the basic concept (common as it seems to be) rather silly and very very shallow. That bit is not Gaiman's problem alone, but the books lacks any greater purpose when you find its basic concepts unconvincing or uninteresting.

I could get more theological but won't. All in all it American Gods feels like an issue or two of Sandman.

[Invisible Queen]

Heh, to me it feels like a 460 page version of Loki's speech from The Kindly Ones. But I thought it was full of magic, if rather subtle magic. :)

[....]

That's part of what makes Discworld Death so endearing though. Also, you might notice that while Girld Death is a lot friendlier and better at interacting with people, Discworld Death is the one who often goes out of his way to actually save...you know...the world, universe, what have you. He's more heroic then Girl Death.

ingrates :P

And yes, Sandman is pretty much my favourite comic series


Don't get me wrong, I like D. Death better than G. Death. For those exact reasons, and because he has really funny lines, while G. Death is busy trying to be all meaningful.

"What happens after I die!?"
I DON'T KNOW. I'VE NEVER DONE IT.

"I thought there'd be music and light and my realatives and everything."
NO. THERE'S JUST ME.

[Gavin Sage]

Heh, to me it feels like a 460 page version of Loki's speech from The Kindly Ones. But I thought it was full of magic, if rather subtle magic. :)

Thing is while I love Sandman I don't love every piece of it. And so things like gods dying for lack of belief I could deal with in the greater picture of the Sandman, but when its the whole show I don't like care for it. Since I think the whole "gods feeding off belief" misses the point, and extending this to modernity as AG does is truely getting shallow.

[JabberwockySupafly]

Girl Death does get to experience life as a mortal every century and that's why she's better at empathising with humanity than Discworld Death, I would imagine.



Aha, but in Reaper Man (I'll spoiler this, just in case some people haven't read it yet. You know, cave-dwellers, or perhaps someone raised by marmosets)...

Death becomes entirely mortal. For more than just a day. As the below quote shows, it's even something he has craved:

SEE! I HAVE TIME. AT LAST, I HAVE TIME!
"And now that you have it, what are you going to do with it?"
I'M GOING TO SPEND IT.


Also, At the end of the book he even explains to the Azrael that to have a Death who cares about the world around it is far more important than one who just goes around fulfilling his duties.

LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?


So, while Gaiman's Death seems more caring and kind, in the end I'd have to say Pratchett's is actually the one who does empathise and is truly in touch with his "inner-anthropomorphic personification". He just tries too hard sometimes to be human. Like the time he tried developing a sense of humour in Men At Arms.

Also, remember in the first arc of Sandman when Dream is speaking to Alex Burgess? (Spoilerfied for everyone's convenience)

"We didn't want you. It was all a mistake. We Weren't trying to capture you. We wanted to capture Death."

"What? You wanted DEATH? Then count yourself lucky for the sake your species and your petty planet that you did NOT succeed... that instead you snared Death's uounger BROTHER... You'll never know how LUCKY you were."

From the sounds of it, Gaiman's Death is not nearly as sweet as some people think.

[Gavin Sage]

Regarding Death I remember from Endless Nights:

The scene of Death showing up at the congress of stars and more or less laughing at them all and how pointless it all is since in the end everyone comes to her.

Albeit that is a much younger Death, but still was very unerving.

[Finn Solomon]

Aha, but in Reaper Man (I'll spoiler this, just in case some people haven't read it yet. You know, cave-dwellers, or perhaps someone raised by marmosets)...

"We didn't want you. It was all a mistake. We Weren't trying to capture you. We wanted to capture Death."

"What? You wanted DEATH? Then count yourself lucky for the sake your species and your petty planet that you did NOT succeed... that instead you snared Death's uounger BROTHER... You'll never know how LUCKY you were."



You took it that way? To me, it always sounded like the usual mankind-rebelling-against-the-natural-order type of warning. Like, they want to trap Death for short term plans and not giving a thought to the consequences.

Besides, ol' Oneiros has been known to dramatise a little. :smallbiggrin:

[Invisible Queen]

Yeah, I think that's more about how the world will end since nobody can die and stuff than any implication that Death would take revenge.

Heh, emember this exchange:
'Mostly they aren't too keen on entering the sunless lands, but they enter your realm every night without fear.'
'And I am far more terrible than you, my sister.'

[MeklorIlavator]

Yeah, my step-dad likes the graphic novels, and he got me into them. Only really have Kindly ones, though. I really like the way everything interacts in the novels, like having Norse gods and the Greek Furies in the same book.

[Lobsopdoy]

Yeah, I think that's more about how the world will end since nobody can die and stuff than any implication that Death would take revenge.

Heh, emember this exchange:
'Mostly they aren't too keen on entering the sunless lands, but they enter your realm every night without fear.'
'And I am far more terrible than you, my sister.'

I've noticed that neither of those Deaths really <i>kill</i> people. It's more like they seperate the soul from the body AFTER the person in question is dead. They allow entrance into the afterlife. So in that sense, they really are important.

[Gavin Sage]

Well the Endless are born of their respective abstracts. As was shown actively by Dream, doing things to them does not stop what they represent. It would send waves through all of reality of course. So Death doesn't have to kill people, since Death is a feature of the universe. She came after it, thus is not killing people. Of course she could obviously, but its not how she spends the universes lifetime.

[jazz1m]

I love sandman. Probably one of the best graphic novels out there.
Books of Magic is also another nice Gaiman
1602 is another great Gaiman comic

Books - Anansi Boys
Neverwhere
Stardust
And Good omens (with Pratchett) as others have mentioned

[Bluelantern]

It's possible to not love Sandman? Definitely worth a place on any list of the best comic ever. I'd heard about it for awhile and when I finally broke down and started reading it I found I couldn't stop.

The Endless are the greatest.
If you extract the soul of someone and leave nothing but a empty shell I guess it could not love sandman :smallamused:

Anyway

BEST. COMIC. EVER!

I can't wait to see the movie about Death. Also, I don't think that the thing about imprision her would be bad because she might get a revenge, rather it could be something similar of what Destruction said that the endless are lords of opposites, Death defines lifes.

Plus people din't stoped dreaming without Morpheus, what I could assume is that without death we could have lots of weird stuff happen, mostly ghost of people who can't find they way to afterlife or even zombies and stuff :smallbiggrin:

[Invisible Queen]

That reminds me of another thing Destruction said, everyone talks to Death when/before they are born. I suppose she guides us into life as well as out of it. If she was gone. . .

[Gavin Sage]

It she was truly killed then another incarnation would arise. And if bound people would still be born just not without meeting a cheery little goth chick. We'd probably be okay. Though I sometimes get the sense that each Endless is more powerful as you have them get older so binding may not be possible by mortal magics, even Dream was supposedly very weak at the time.

Which reminds me, anyone here reading The Brave & The Bold being put out by DC right now? Latest issue had a special guest.

[Bluelantern]

It she was truly killed then another incarnation would arise. And if bound people would still be born just not without meeting a cheery little goth chick. We'd probably be okay. Though I sometimes get the sense that each Endless is more powerful as you have them get older so binding may not be possible by mortal magics, even Dream was supposedly very weak at the time.

Which reminds me, anyone here reading The Brave & The Bold being put out by DC right now? Latest issue had a special guest.

huh?
Sandman??? *_*

[Gavin Sage]

Nah, his older brother. Interesting story.

The Book of Destiny is a Macguffin

[Bluelantern]

Nah, his older brother. Interesting story.

The Book of Destiny is a Macguffin

huh, macwhat?

[Gavin Sage]

Punch it into wikipedia to find the explanation.

[Finn Solomon]

I just got my little sister started on it, I'm so pleased she's finally reading good literature instead of awful chick lit. When she grows up she wants to be Delirium, although by my count she's already halfway there.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

I've read quite abit of Sandman. I've liked what i read. Dream really kinda bores me though. I much prefer his supporting cast to him. I love the Raven and Fiddler's Green. Barnabas and Des were the greatest of what I've read so far. The Cuckoo really creeped me out.

[Logos7]

i duunno about all of your saying life would go on if death was bound.

when dream was bound sleeping sickness took over, the universe trying to fill his shoes.

if death was bound i expect an increase in deaths of all kinds as the universe tries to fill her shoes ( and stockings apparently )

l