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Tor the Fallen
2007-06-09, 06:16 AM
I'm going to probably be starting up a level 10 evil campaign, and I have no idea what to play.

I'd like to play a character that would be useful outside of combat, as well as in. My first thought is 'wizard', or artificer. Would wizard1/archivist3/MT 6 be worth it? Lose 1 archivist level to pick up 7 wizard levels. Course, I'd have to convince my DM to let me play the archivist (likely), and also do the precocious apprentice trick (and make sure it's in a 3.0 book he owns).

Since it's 3.0, I'm going to want Haste. What other good 3.0 spells are there? Ray of Enfeeblement's no good (allows fort save). Also, since we have all these books, I could take multiple feats that allow me to greatly reduce the cost of crafting. Since my DM is barely literate, it wouldn't be too hard to have 3 feats, each that reduce the cost of a magic item by 1/4, to a total 1/4 of 1/2 of market price. (125 gp for a 1000 gold magic item? priceless. errr). Technically, by 3.0 rules, I'm not really breaking them, just bending them lots (multipliers stack, rather than multiply, too).

I'm going to be playing hack and slash with a bunch of wannabe powergamers with a not so great grasp of the rules. Frenzied Berzerk is another idea, just to put out insane damage. With the weird critical rules (see below), I can pick up imp. crit (falchion), keen it, and be hitting 11/20 times, regardless of how bad I power attack. This also saves me the bullrush-> shocktrooper route. Besides, accidently supreme cleaving my party in one round would be pretty amusing.

Any suggestions? I'm looking for a build that doesn't jump out right away as super powerful, doesn't require too much explaining (like Pun-Pun), but does surprisingly broken things, too often.

Any broken feats/spells/PrCs in 3.0?

Rules:
3.0
Rolling within the critical range of a weapon is an auto-hit. For instance, rolling an 18 with a falchion will always be a hit and a critical, except if the creature is immune.
Pretty much anything out of a book the DM owns (which includes song&silence, for rogues and bards, draconomicon, libris mortis, something for barbs and druids (contains FB & geomancer), an artificer handbook, the Diablo II d20, something for warriors (contains gladiator, drunken master; sword & fist maybe), and maybe something for spellcasters) is fair game.

Iku Rex
2007-06-09, 07:26 AM
Your post isn't making a lot of sense. Most importantly, you keep talking about 3.5 classes and prestige classes in a supposedly 3.0 only campaign. And then you list several 3.5 books as allowed. I assume the DM is using a combination of 3.5 material and 3.0 rules, but how is he doing that? What is and isn't allowed from 3.5 books? And does the 3.0 version of a rule always take precedence?

lord_khaine
2007-06-09, 07:40 AM
and you are wrong about the critt rules, if you look at page 123 it says clearly that only a natural 20 is a automatic Hit, even if your threat range is higher.

Tengu
2007-06-09, 07:50 AM
and you are wrong about the critt rules, if you look at page 123 it says clearly that only a natural 20 is a automatic Hit, even if your threat range is higher.

He knows that. It's a houserule his DM is using.

JellyPooga
2007-06-09, 08:03 AM
What campaign setting is it you're playing in?

If it's Forgotten Realms (or you can persuade your DM), Telflammar Shadowlord PrC is not vastly overpowered, but can be twinked somewhat with Full Attack after DimDoor type cheese. Suits Evil party too somewhat. I believe Haste is on their spell list and you also get a bunch of SLA's from being a Shadow Walker (including DimDoor). As an added benefit, you become somewhat hard to kill when you get the Shadow Discorporation ability...

The Rogue-ish build will also give you plenty of skill points to be useful outside of combat too.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-09, 01:25 PM
Your post isn't making a lot of sense. Most importantly, you keep talking about 3.5 classes and prestige classes in a supposedly 3.0 only campaign. And then you list several 3.5 books as allowed. I assume the DM is using a combination of 3.5 material and 3.0 rules, but how is he doing that? What is and isn't allowed from 3.5 books? And does the 3.0 version of a rule always take precedence?

I'm pretty sure the books he has are all 3.0; regardless, we play 3.0, even if they're 3.5 books (which I don't think they are). That means barbarians get intuit direction and rogues get innuendo, haste gives you another action, sorcs learn 9 level 0 spells, etc. Nor is it 3.0 only; the base rule set is 3.0. There MIGHT be 3.5 stuff in there, it's been awhile since I've looked through his books.

I think the only 3.5 class I mentioned was Archivist. Is MT strictly 3.5, as well?


What campaign setting is it you're playing in?

If it's Forgotten Realms (or you can persuade your DM), Telflammar Shadowlord PrC is not vastly overpowered, but can be twinked somewhat with Full Attack after DimDoor type cheese. Suits Evil party too somewhat. I believe Haste is on their spell list and you also get a bunch of SLA's from being a Shadow Walker (including DimDoor). As an added benefit, you become somewhat hard to kill when you get the Shadow Discorporation ability...

The Rogue-ish build will also give you plenty of skill points to be useful outside of combat too.

We're playing Greyhawk, but I'll see if that class is available.

PinkysBrain
2007-06-09, 02:49 PM
which I don't think they are
You are wrong.

PS. yes, MT is 3.5 only.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-09, 06:31 PM
You are wrong.

Are you saying 3.0 didn't have ANY other books besides core?

Matthew
2007-06-10, 12:42 PM
Hmmn. I don't think that's what he's saying, just that Archivist, Frenzied Berserker and Shock Trooper had no 3.0 equivalents. Not much difficulty incorporating them, though, even if Power Attack changes makes for some superfluous rules.

PinkysBrain
2007-06-10, 04:14 PM
Are you saying 3.0 didn't have ANY other books besides core?
Sure it has, just not the ones you listed. Here (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=721&p_created=1124475120&p_sid=k-zQFODi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9ODMmcF9wcm9kcz01MTQsNTMzJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9 wdj0yLjUzMyZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc 2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1) is a list of 3.0 and 3.5 books.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-16, 08:34 PM
Sure it has, just not the ones you listed. Here (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=721&p_created=1124475120&p_sid=k-zQFODi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9ODMmcF9wcm9kcz01MTQsNTMzJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9 wdj0yLjUzMyZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc 2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1) is a list of 3.0 and 3.5 books.

Thanks for that link. Very useful.



So I went and worked on a character the other night, and found some crazy stuff out.

1. Super high powered Spelljammer campaign, with a bunch of nasty 2.0 things, like a coin of bad luck that was created by a god of chaos and slaughter that will blow up entire villages, or give you some gold. Deck of Many Things sort of stuff.

2. 100 point buy on a 1-to-1 basis. Max 20 in any stat before modifiers.

3. The captain of the ship is going to be an illithid soul eater, played by the DM's dad (oh dear god).

4. Books are Spell Compendium (3.5), Expanded Psionics Handbook (3.0? 3.5?), BoED, BoVD, 3.0 core set, a 3.0 campaign setting that's not Greyhawk (has golden halflings- +2 int, +2 wis, small, -2 str!! and half hobgoblins), Complete Warrior (3.5), Complete Arcane (3.5) and a 3.0 equivalent, Tome and Blood (3.0), Song and Silence (3.0), Manual of the Planes (3.5), Masters of the Wild (3.0), MM2 (3.0), MM3 (3.5), Weapons of Legacy (3.5), Lords of Madness (3.5), Libris Mortis, a little booklet for the artificer, and the Draconomicon. There are some others I may be missing.

5. Leadership is allowed.

6. I could play a monster race, if I wanted to.

7. We'll probably be fighting mobs of CR equal enemies, likely to have really killer homebrew abilties.

8. In space, no one can hear you scream. Which means oxygen is going to be important.

9. We'll have time to craft.

10. Magic items are by request only, and likely to be on the not so great side.

11. Powergaming definitely encouraged (20s in all my key stats!?!?).

I was thinking human artificer with a golden halfling wizard 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 4 cohort. 3.0 cohort rules, and the 3.0 MotAO, which limits spell pool debt to caster level x 3, not days.

This build would serve a few purposes:
Works good for the campaign. The artificer can be chief engineer while his lackeys run around and fix things.
Control over what magic items the party has, rather than the DM (heh heh heh).
9 levels of devestating caster.
Fun character concept.

Questions:
Feat selection for artificer (the feats that make crafting cheaper stack, not sure exactly how)?
Spell selection? What's good in the spell compendium?
My DM said with the 5th level of MotAO, I can learn ANY arcane spell. I was thinking CLW or something, but is there anything really great on another list? Glibness isn't available in 3.0, except as a potion.

Thanks everyone!


PS
Frenzied Berserker- definitely in 3.0!

Ditto
2007-06-16, 09:12 PM
Necklace of adaptation, lets you breath from a nice personal bubble of air - 9,000 gp

Ah, spells lists... I'll skim from the illustrious Logic Ninja's guide.

Grease
Ray of Enfeeblement - try it with the feat 'Fell Weaken'. For +1, you get 4 Str drained on a given attack spell. It's wicked.

Web
Glitterdust
Shatter - I've always found amusing uses for it.
Rope trick - Wand it for safe sleeping.
Mirror image

Stinking cloud
Slow
Deep Slumber
Unluck
Greater Mage Armor - +6 AC, not bad for an expensive wand...
Ray of Exhaustion - might also couple with Fell Weaken (-10 Str total is nice...), but you might have something better to do with your 4th level slots.

Solid fog
Fear
Greater resistence - +3 Saves, very nice.

Dominate person

Just a couple.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-17, 05:21 PM
In 3.0, many of the ray spells are Save: Fort and SR: Yes. Such as ray of enfeeblement.